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This is the future of business podcasts hosted by Said Business School.
Today we'll be talking to Daniel Cannabis.
He's currently a product manager at Rolls-Royce Motor Cars, who's responsible for global pricing strategy and is the head of the Configurator team.
He's previously worked as a product manager at BMW Group Espana,
working on the Mini and also a specialist on the motor and working in market research and product management.
Thank you so much for agreeing to meet with us today.
We're really excited to hear about your perspective on the auto industry, luxury and product management.
No, thank you for having me here. I think it's great to be at Oxford.
Yeah. Discussing industry insights with you.
So can you give us a little background on how you got started in the product and luxury world?
Well, I started in the product world first because I joined a BMW group was when I was studying in my undergraduate.
So I started at Financial Services. Then I moved to BMW Motorcycles, then I moved to Mini.
And then late 2015 I had a chance to move to Goodwood, to the head office of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars.
And then is when my stage of luxury started.
And now trying to combine both industries, luxury and automotive.
Awesome. So what made you want to work in the luxury and auto industry and specifically as a product manager?
What of those three things really shown and sparked out to you, I think is the mix.
And as a product manager, you need to have the view of the bigger picture.
And if you look at both industries, luxury and automotive, a lot of things are happening at the moment.
And the auto industry, we can see how new brands are coming in and with electric cars, autonomous driving mobility services.
So the industry is being disrupted. So it's a very exciting moment.
And in luxury as well, we've seen a change from all luxury and ownership now more to a experiences and consciousness and rich experiences.
So I think it's a it's a amazing time to be at the cross of both industries.
Did you see as a child, great line to what you're doing now in product?
Did you have interest in juggling many challenges at once, like you just mentioned, of those industries?
Not at all. I was never planning to be specifically product manager on in the brand like Rolls-Royce motor cars.
But I knew that I should work.
It's something I liked and I was passionate about.
And I'm really passionate about iconic brands and creating experiences around iconic products and the emotional attachment between the product,
the brand and the customer. So I quite knew that I was going to do something similar,
but definitely I had no idea that I would be working here in the UK for, for that amazing brand.
And how does that emotional story play out at Rolls-Royce that you first saw it when you wanted to move into your current role roughly four years ago?
Well, it's it was completely unknown to me,
because Rolls-Royce is one part of the business that I had no previous contact with and might be front end at the beginning,
because you can see all the magic around the brand or the drama.
But once you know it, you can really see why users and customer are really engaged with the brand because it's not just a car company,
it's more a global luxury brand. And we deliver experiences at Goodwood that are really unique and in a world that is moving more to automation,
having products that are handcrafted and very limited unit.
So this niche industry is really, really unique and and exciting.
So it sounded like at first Rolls-Royce as a company or even the luxury market was a little bit of a walled garden.
There were secrets behind it. The story was behind there, and that may have been a little bit intimidating.
How did you jump that that river, that bridge to go from BMW, which is more mid-market to such a bespoke and high end luxury company like Rolls-Royce?
Was there conversations that you had with people? What helped you transition?
Spending time in the brand, talking to customers, talking to our regional colleagues, talking to different departments.
Because in the past it was. Closer to the sales side of the business and the end user.
And now, because our head office is closer to manufacturing, you can really see how things are made, are created.
So that's that's good to know the product inside out and see how things are made that I think that that creates value.
So similarly, looking back at a company like Rolls-Royce that has had over a hundred years of
production and modification while also retaining its its get the storyline,
the magic of the brand. How do you think the company has been able to create a culture that's been resilient and also nimble
so that it can operate in current times and still hold its place as an elite motorcar company?
I think being a. Um, niche and a small volume manufacture.
It helps because your processes are more flexible.
Um. Having a non automated production system helps because all our cars are built by hand and therefore the personalisation and um,
having cars that are bespoke and lead times can be longer and you don't disrupt a given process.
I think this, um. Craftmanship.
And there's. Hon mate system helps because it's more flexible.
Definitely. Is that an aspect of the culture that exists throughout all parts of the organisation,
say in accounting and H.R., or is that more closely related to people who are closer to the actual product?
I would like to believe that is spread throughout the organisation.
Of course, the closer you are to the product, the stronger the connection and the better is the understanding.
But at the end of the day, we're a small team where around 2000 people that we all love to brand,
we all love our products and therefore we all understand our values and we understand our processes.
So I think keeping a small team hopes definitely a great sense of camaraderie there.
How would you say outside of the culture? More operations management has helped Rolls-Royce evolve as a company throughout the years and also
has kept it nimble in its actual kind of nuts and bolts when it comes to operations and processes.
Being part of a group like BMW Group, you can learn new processes, you can definitely find synergies.
And although we are extremely independent as a brand,
you can tap into Operation Knowledge and state of the art processes that you can adopt for your product.
And have you seen any top line or cost pressures that have been put on Rolls-Royce in the last
ten years that have affected either the culture or maybe in a positive or negative light,
either doubling down on the craftsmanship and the camaraderie, the the pride in what you deliver,
or has it made the company take on new attributes in any capacity?
I mean, you always have challenges. You always have pressure.
However, we believe that we we have resilient to that.
And we all believe that our. Brand.
Our shift on our bespoke processes should be as they are,
and not be negatively influenced by external factors like short term financial results, which are important.
But you need to consider that Rolls-Royce used Rolls-Royce because of certain aspects, so you cannot compromise.
So can you describe your day today for us and how your particular role is shaping the future of the luxury auto industry?
Well. Shaping the future of our auto industry is a is a very challenging message.
But my day today, I take something that I do like is being part of a global team and being in daily
contact with my colleagues from the regions starting in the morning with Beijing,
Singapore, then Middle East and Europe.
And in the afternoon,
talking to our colleagues in New York is something that is really valuable to me because I was coming from a market which was only one country,
it was Spain. So this is something that I do like.
And then being in touch with different stakeholders like.
Central sales operations design manufacturing gives you a really good understanding of the business
and because we are all under the same roof is quite easy to get in touch with different stakeholders.
So this is something that is my daily they.
Of course there are challenges daily challenges but is hey it's a good atmosphere.
Awesome. So what what are factors that you consider when developing a new product because your company is so global but also very specific
in different regions and is almost a niche market for things like the Black Badge Line and the gallery in the Phantom Model.
How did you collect data to support that as a product launch and if it would be successful in all of the markets or maybe even just one?
Well, we definitely need to stay in a very close contact with our regional colleagues that they do understand customers and they do understand needs.
On the other hand, we consider that we've got a global audience and customers that are global citizens.
So probably they.
Certain products may not necessarily be only relevant for one region, but we have customers moving across the globe and that definitely helps.
We need to consider definitely key regional aspects.
There are some frameworks that can limit how you operate regulation, different homologation,
different laws, different importation structures that of course you need to consider.
But at the end of the day, because the number of cars that we sell is, is still low and limited and we are a niche brand is somehow.
Easy, I would say four key members of the team to stay closer to the customers and get first hand feedback.
Can you give us an example of how regulation has impacted product design or delivery?
Homologation and safety regulation in the US might be completely different to Korea or China and there are some importation.
Taxes that change overnight. And for a global company, that has a clear impact.
So you need to make sure that for big ticket items like Rolls-Royce, you don't have logistic problems because then it will impact your bottom line.
And even for a company that most of its products are highly customised before they're even built.
That regulation for location based laws still impacts the company's bottom line.
Or is this kind of rolled into how you build the car in the first place for that one particular buyer?
That's an example. I think it was November 2016 when 10% luxury tax was introduced in China.
It was announced, I think was pretty much overnight, only 48 hours notice and we had costs on the way.
So you need to react very, very quickly because you don't want to have some products that are no longer relevant
for the market because the price and the rules of the game have changed so quickly.
And in that scenario, does the company look at adjusting the future price for other customers or
maintaining the expectation of price for those ones that were already shipped?
It very, very depends and is usually case by case basis.
And you need to get an agreement with internal stakeholders and regional colleagues in
order to keep a balance between market needs and definitely the internal profitability.
So no straight answer and case by case basis.
It all depends, right? Yes. What challenges do you think the luxury automotive market has in the coming years,
and where is Rolls-Royce allocating resources to meet these challenges?
I mean, both industries have several challenges.
If we look at only automotive, we can see new brands coming in from the tech industry,
from other industries without legacy assets, with a completely new approach to products.
But on the other hand, they somehow struggle to, uh,
build cars in a consistent way with quality standards because they don't have this expertise and experience in developing a such a complex product.
So I think it's a very interesting time where we can see traditional brands trying to move into a more agile way of working wise.
There are new brands that are born agile. They are trying to find how to produce vehicles in a stable, stable way.
So I think this is a challenge for everyone and how these kind of two different types of companies can coexist is really,
really interesting to look at. Do you believe that the Black Badge line is kind of already tackling some of these
challenges by meeting a new experience and expectation from such a high end brand?
Yeah, definitely Black Badge. We can tell that it is a success and it has helped us to, uh, target a completely different new audience.
Younger customers, uh, that want to really express their personality.
They are bolder. They are. They want something edgy, more dynamic, and, and truly the alter ego of Rolls-Royce or the non-traditional customer.
So both type of customers can coexist under the Rolls-Royce umbrella.
Do you think the customers of Black Badge or just Rolls-Royce in general are becoming more
socially conscious when it comes to the environmental impact of the cars that you built?
Yeah, everyone. Everyone is, um, becoming more, uh.
And but environmentally conscious and I think as is a good thing.
And. Every single brand has to be authentic.
You need to demonstrate how you supply chain, how you production, how you, what materials you're using, but in a authentic way.
And especially in luxury, I think is really, really important. You cannot create.
Fake messages because it's even worse that not telling the truth.
I think you have to be authentic. You have to tell what your product stands for, what's behind a product, but in a in a very authentic way.
How does maintaining rolls-royce's authenticity when it comes to meeting technology expectations from the market?
How do you balance being a world class luxury automotive company but also integrating the sexy tech into cars?
Yeah, it's it's a fine balance. And the good thing is that we are part of a larger group.
It is a BMW group, and they are pioneers in new technology.
So we can find synergies.
On the other hand, for us, it's all about hidden technology and we want the technology to work, but customers should not notice it.
It should be in the background doing the surprised under load factors.
So it's a kind of a process of taking the technology.
This is a state of the art, but using it in a Rolls-Royce way.
Can you give us an example of your favourite surprise and delight technology attribute that's been added to a Rolls-Royce car?
Starlight headliner is one of the elements that people love like is the the and headlining of the cars or the interior.
You can have a constellation or a stellar headliner.
So as you are being driven, you can you can feel like you are looking into the sky and that is is all handcrafted,
but you can have a highly personalised constellation.
So it's kind of this digital craftmanship.
And while integrating these surprise and delight aspects into Rolls-Royce vehicles,
while making sure that the technology that's currently in vogue isn't going to be detrimental to that car is long term value.
For example, we wouldn't want an eight track player in a Rolls-Royce.
Or do those exist in our floating out there somewhere for us is very interesting to keep the value of our products in the long run.
And that's why technology is there but is hidden.
So technology probably is not the primary aspect of the car and what you value is the craftsmanship that is the design is the timelessness,
and the technology just does it still amazing amongst all of the surprise and delight features and also hidden technology in your role at Rolls-Royce,
what has been the most interesting and enlightening experience,
either in your work working amongst many teams or in the actual delivery and build of a product?
What would you say has been kind of an aha moment for you?
What I really like is when we bring customers to Goodwood and to experience our
facilities and we unveil our cars just to see how amazed they are with the product.
When we walk around the product, when we unveil what they have commissioned months ago,
that is really great and you can see it over time and it's a moment that is always a factor.
It does not change. Do you as a product manager get to see behind the veil on that or kind of linger in the background?
Or do you have front row seats to showing that buyer their new car?
From time to time.
We we are involved with customers, but it very much depend of what kind of customers because at the end of the day, we have 1 to 1 relationships.
So we've got colleagues in the sales high that they craft that relationship with customers.
And some people want to be more open and get more in touch with the headquarters in Goodwood.
Some others they would want to have more private conversation.
So it very much depends. So Goodwood is one of the experiences that Rolls-Royce has as a buyer.
You can, like you said, come in and see the unveiling of this beautiful new Rolls-Royce that you've purchased.
But what other ways does Rolls-Royce use their experience and department of the company to either retain customers or bring new ones on?
We run, for example, the art program program called Muse, and we have a collaboration in London with the Serpentine Gallery,
and we do philanthropy events where we bring customers over and we have a very special dinner where we present a car we auction for charity.
That is something which is quite unique and we of course are part of the wider Goodwood.
World where there's the Festival of speed, where we meet customers on a in a very special way.
So which came first?
The experiences that included art aspects or the gallery feature part of The Phantom come first, or was it kind of a magical blend?
I think it is a nice blend because Rolls-Royce has been quite close to the art world.
Over time, we where the art program is, it's not new.
And then having the possibility to bring a art piece to your own car,
which is the probably the ultimate expression of bespoke, was like a very, very good match.
And if you could just give one piece of advice to anyone who's interested, either in the cross section of product management,
luxury and automotives, or any one of those three, how they can break into that industry or even find if they're truly passionate about it.
I think you need to be passionate with the product on the front yard representing because in the end is probably half of the day, if not more.
You are the Fed, you are you have to represent that brand.
And when it comes to the product management role, I think it's important to have a.
Why their view of the business and they get to see the bigger picture.
At the end of the day, you are a knowledge broker between sales, design, manufacturing engineer, press training.
You need to deal with a lot of internal stakeholders, but you need to understand the market trends or the industry trends in order growth,
cross-pollinate ideas, you need to know your customer.
So I think having the ability to get to see or want and wanted to get to see the big picture is important.
And would you say being passionate about your particular role is essentially
how a company can shoot forward in the future of business in their industry?
Like if many hands make light work, if your hand is really passionate about the company and the industry,
like you just said, is that going to move us forward faster? I believe so.
I believe that you can always. Learn new skills.
But passion has to be there. So you need to truly believe in the product, truly believe in the brand.
And if there is a gap that you need to fill or you need to close, that will happen.
There are resources there, but is more difficult for someone who has an amazing skillset to fall in love with a product it has not.
If this has not happened before. So you heard it here first.
Passion is the most important thing, or maybe for the hundredth time.
So thank you so much, Daniel,
for meeting with us and speaking to all of our listeners about your industry and getting an insight into the luxury automotive world.
Thank you for having me and I hope you all have a great time here.
The future of business is dependent on us understanding that we live in a world with finite resources and future decide what's the possibilities.
The future of business is inclusive innovation, monarchy, Buddhism, the Tokyo governor, my stepmother, Emma and Michelle.
And then what's yours? And I think it's in the pudding. I am willing to put them in immediately.
And the future of business is responsible, sustainable and circular.