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Okay. Hi, everybody. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

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A man very the course director for the M.S. and Translational Health Sciences.

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And this guest lecture is part of the MSI. So I'd like to introduce our speaker or C,

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we all agreed it would be best if I didn't try to pronounce your name out loud in front of everybody, because you'll introduce yourself.

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She's a senior lecturer in entrepreneurship and a fellow at the Foundation for Science and Technology,

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and also works with the W.H.O. on scaling digitally enabled health interventions and is going

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to talk to us today about social entrepreneurship from a behavioural science perspective.

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Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you.

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It's really a pleasure to be here and thank you for coming in.

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And I know if you've been doing this course, that means you probably have information overload.

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And then at the moment you're just like, I don't know if I can process more,

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but I just invite you to chill, relax, and ask some questions if there's any at the end of the week.

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So as it is, if treated as a treat, as we say and say my name is all she has, which probably is only me can pronounce it sometimes.

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So sorry. No, no. I said my middle name, Ivana.

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And I said to my wife, I think we should have had a discussion about that two years ago when that happened.

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So.

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But yes, sir, I'm the senior lecturer, but I started not as an academic, so and I don't call myself an academic because it's not quite right for me.

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So I call myself more of a that.

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So I was 12 years in in management industry working with at the do these things and working at Addenbrooke's Hospital.

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I was based in Cambridge and then working for the university as a program director for Entrepreneurship Education as well.

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And that sort of that became a time when my passion towards healthcare and and digital health become something that made me very curious.

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And then also there was a change in the dynamics of politics, which is always fun.

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And then you have options. So either right away or you leave the life of the boat.

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So I left the boat and then did my PhD, which was in collaboration with the W.H.O., and the reason I worked with them,

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because they just started off a list of lessons eventually was we had to be mobile, which I will talk more about prior to that.

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For me, entrepreneurship was more forward social entrepreneurship and social enterprise,

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and the reason is because I have a slightly different view around entrepreneurship.

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And I think that where we at right now, it's it's actually a call for us to rethink what the value is and actually rethink how we use value,

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how we create value and use our skills and knowledge across sectors, across industries, and making sure that actually be creating.

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And I'm a huge believer in that, that if you are doing continuing education, if you're doing your master's part time,

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if you're kind of willing to think outside the box,

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it is because you are identified the potential of a career path, which is not a direct career path.

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It's a career path that is dynamic. And I think that's the future career path.

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So if you're at the moment where you are and then thinking about what's next, think about dynamics, think about agile things,

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about a Start-Up mentality in one way or another, where those kids that are actually developing are actually equitable in different sectors.

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So this is where I will go and then talk a little bit more about.

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But it is so. Why is it important? And why do I think that it needs a different thinking?

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And behavioural science is an interesting lens and I always say if you're looking through the lens of behaviour science,

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don't forget that it's on the islands and then system painting is on your lens and entrepreneurship is on your lens.

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So sometimes looking at things with things like there's magic pills and you can take them and they solve the problems.

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It's like the matrix, you have the blue and the rads and then you take and then you go off in different directions.

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So I think.

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Use the lens to actually challenge your own biases and challenge the biases that are in society and challenged biases that are exists around.

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And while health care and public health is specifically.

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So there are problems out there. There are problems. There's enough problems, I think, for us to think of and to find solutions to.

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And it's a call to change, but it's a call to change of a mindset of thinking slightly more agile,

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but also respecting and understanding what tradition is and then what the role of that sort of past knowledge that we can build upon.

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And it's also ask for a sense of urgency. I think there's the sense of urgency, the need to act.

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And then what we're doing, what Einstein always said, right,

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if you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result, that's called insanity.

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And I feel that that's what we're doing.

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You just keep doing the same thing, using the same tools and then trying to apply them slightly differently, expecting a different result.

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And then you're surprised when that doesn't happen.

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So and that, I think, results in to the fact that if you look at the sustainable development goal agenda,

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what strikes me and the reason I decided to point this out is because when you look at this is not really the 15% on track that I am interested in.

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What I'm interested in is a 37% regression, which means that we made some headways and certain ways and now we are actually going backwards.

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So when you look at this, there's two elements I would like you to just reflect on.

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One is that on track is great, but what are we doing here that we are considering moving forward?

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But actually we're moving backwards.

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And then when you think about these sustainable development goals and the complexity of those problems that we're trying to solve

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and behavioural science is actually an interesting lens to look at these problems because they're all socially constructed.

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And then we need to really understand that construct that the problem exists in and what are the dynamics of that problem.

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And then tracking societal biases, environmental biases, economical biases and your own biases against it.

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So when you think about solving those problems, the only way you can solve those problems is through collaboration and collective action.

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And we do talk about collaboration, and collective action is not a new thing that we talk about.

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Do we know how to do it? I've got examples that showcases that we are still lagging behind of actually understanding how to do collective action.

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Specifically in the West, we much better elsewhere. So you all know about wicked problems, Heads up, Wicked problems.

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We know that we have problems. Yes, we talked about these problems this week.

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They haven't talked about them this week. It can get very tough for good.

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So I think the reason why social entrepreneurship and social innovation becomes relevant is because the problems that we are facing at the moment,

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which we talk about, socially constructed problems such as poverty, is actually has its own characteristics.

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And then the characteristics of this problem or climate change requires a different mindset to action.

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And that mindset is no longer the very straight way of a one way directional solution,

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but actually it does require complex solutions, interconnectedness,

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and also thinking about solution and the consequences of your solution has been very good at designing interventions to solve a problem.

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But do we actually consider the hidden consequences of those interventions that the design and have we tested those interventions across sectors?

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Have we tested those interventions with the people who are actually trying

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to intervene a bit to really understand what the problem be trying to solve?

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And if you go back to the basic one or one, entrepreneurship is what problem solving and who's problem solving.

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And do you understand that problem statement? If you don't know that problem statement, what value going to create to it?

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We can come up with brilliant solutions. But if you don't understand the problem that you really solving.

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Then you are coming up with solutions that are actually causing further problems.

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If you just look about if you think about electric cars.

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Right. Great, great solution. Now we have all of the.

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Okay, so what are we going to do, all of those batteries? What are we how are we going to store them?

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What are we going to do about them?

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Well, if you think about the unintended consequences of health care, some of the innovations that in health care it's or just think about,

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I presume you probably use the example of calorie counts on behavioural science.

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Right. I'm not saying it's it's it's not has its benefits.

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But when it's been designed,

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have we really understood the unintended consequences that an intervention could create an innovation or actually works around the same thing?

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What are the unintended consequences of the innovation that you're trying to push into?

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The next stage is the answer to everything. I think aid has a role, but I don't think soldier is in everything.

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And I was in a talk couple of weeks ago where the head of the Alan Turing Institute,

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she said that the only thing she learned about A.I. in the first week with the Alan Turing Institute.

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That is true because actually everything is still going on.

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So now we know that if it's A.I. is equal blue, so there's more things to it.

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But just to say that we cannot use a silver bullet to now solve all of our problems.

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It's the echo. To create solutions.

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But it's not your magic bullet. So what is really social innovation?

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And then And then how do we really look at social innovation in the context of public health?

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And how have I got in in very much closeness to social innovation ten years ago, really,

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when the Centre for Social Innovation was established at Cambridge is because we were wanted to understand social innovation is not a new thing.

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Sometimes we talk about social entrepreneurship and social innovation that is a new that is not a new thing.

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It existed in the 1970s because or even beforehand,

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it existed in the Victorian times when the match girls started to work and then used the phosphorus and the matches.

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And then we have to do something about it because it created like the unintended consequences of health issues.

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So when you are thinking about problems embedded into society and trying to

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untangle the complexity of the problems and then come up with the solutions to it,

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that's when you are actually creating something called social innovation,

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because that requires a creative and very practical solution to a social problem.

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But also you are doing it in a way that you are trying to identify the resources that is not directly relevant to you.

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And this is where the inter sectorial or sectorial collaborations for the future is, is absolutely vital.

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So whatever you study right now. Make sure that you don't consider that field, because it's very easy to position yourself and say, you know,

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I've got a masters in epidemiology or public health, therefore I know this, therefore this is my area.

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And then you think in the centre of your knowledge. Talk to an engineer, go in and talk to industry, understand what policy,

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what is the government trying to do around the area that you've trying to understand the landscape you're operating in because

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the skills that you've developed that and the knowledge that you develop that will give you the solutions to problems.

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What is very important in that concept of mission orientation and mission innovation means that you are actually detaching yourself from the problem,

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but you're trying to understand what are you trying to change here?

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What is the mission that you need to align yourself to create the solution to?

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And that is about, you know, and having access to vaccination globally.

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Then that is a mission. How are we going to align resources, capabilities and institutional capabilities?

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Are we going to align connections in order to get to that mission?

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And that only can be achieved if you work in collaboration.

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And I think that is at the heart of the value creation for for social innovation.

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And before I go into one of the basic examples, if you look at what is the difference between public good and common good?

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Tell me, what is the difference between public and private? Hmm.

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Anybody willing to give it a go? Oh, I know.

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I gave you the trophy. Sort of like, as an example, like your right for freedom.

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Is it a public debate or a common good? Is a comment.

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Yeah. What about health care? Some countries.

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Probably some countries. Doesn't even exist.

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But what about education? Public good.

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Common. Good. Access to education. It's a public good.

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So everything that has sort of an institutional form, this kind of and top down approach.

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It's sort of public good now. What we're trying to do in the last 30 years or 40 years is try to find the failure in the

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system and then trying to find and fix the failure in the system rather than actually saying,

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what do we need? What do we want?

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How does it benefit the community? How can we start to shape markets?

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How can we create new markets that hasn't existed? Rather than actually saying what's wrong and then trying to fix it?

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NHS is your perfect example. Every government comes on board and to fix the NHS is the political agenda.

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Sorry, I should be politically correct myself, but also that's my own biases creeping in.

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So you have to take it with a pinch of salt. But I. And working with the NHS for a long time so.

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But market shaping is something that I think you need to see that you cannot always just try to fix.

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Because if you're trying to fix the problem, then you're just adding the plaster.

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When you bruise yourself, you just add another plaster and then you're waiting for something to become better.

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On a short term, you might see a result. On a long term, you won't see results.

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So you really need to apply a different type of thinking when it comes to creating that.

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And if you think the very simplistic way around health care was better than health care.

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Right. The quick question was, even then, in a foundation of the NHS, you said Michael Bevan's famous quote, How can you bring that to communities?

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How can you bring that actually to find solutions that you bring primary care to the streets?

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How can you actually fix the problems that are outside of the system?

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So one of the biggest problem around vaccination as well, that some of the people it's not about the logistics supply chain of vaccination.

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But if you don't have an identity, if you haven't even been registered in the system, then I can have the best supply chain.

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You will not receive the vaccination because you're not even registered in the system of the vaccine.

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So until you solve the problem of giving people's back their identity to register them in a system,

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then you're starting to connect the dots and then say, okay, let's bring the supply chain that will reach out to all of the areas.

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What is the core problem? That is a very behavioural scientist view or lens to really understand those problems that are underneath.

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The problem and trying to understand what is the solution that you're trying to find here?

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SABET That was my own work with the W.H.O., and then this is something that I've been involved in a lot six years.

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And they started off with a very interesting concept because.

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Actually, we can talk about digitalisation, but when it comes to very simplistic text messaging,

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it's actually sometimes overlooked the power of text messaging,

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because text messaging is still one of the best way of reaching people to provide them with awareness and information.

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Because if you're going to say, my work was focusing on Senegal, Sudan and India, but mostly when I was in and working with the Senegalese people.

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Everybody has a WhatsApp. They don't communicate with me by email.

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They don't communicate with me by anything else apart from. But that's their behavioural trait.

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That's how they communicate. If that's how you communicate, why are we not using the communication tools they have for information?

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A very simplistic question. We can create all of these beautiful digital platforms.

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They're not going to go because the only thing they're going to see is a text message lands on their phone.

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So you really need to see entrepreneurship one or one again. You really need to understand your customers.

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You really need to understand who's problem solving and do you really understand those people?

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Have you been walking a mile in their shoes or actually have you been there going into the community?

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Have you engaged yourself in the community? And if you haven't, are you working with them?

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Because you might not engage with the community directly, but are you involving them in in the design phase of your interventions?

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Because guess what? They know what they need. Sometimes we think we know what people need.

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Because of our knowledge and experience and past lives, Right.

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But on the other hand, do we really understand?

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Because sometimes communities are very much aware of what they need and they have the solution.

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They have better solutions that you think you can offer them, but nobody is asking them and empowering them to reach those.

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That's that's very much important for social innovation, too.

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But with the W.H.O. project, what we did is basically what we realised.

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So we went there again thinking we will work very well here and but what we needed, we realised that W.H.O. has an expertise in public health.

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That's great. They don't have expertise in telecom, they don't have access to all of the telecom companies that are exists in these countries.

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So we needed to team up at the very beginning. So this project is the first project that actually teams up to you and the agencies I.T,

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which is the information tech communication units and the W.H.O.,

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because we needed to match those skills and knowledge and resources for us to

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actually enable those services to land to the right people with the right message.

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And when we started it, what was very much important in here that we didn't started it, it was a diabetic patient.

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Associations targeted us and said we need a solution because NCD is noncommunicable diseases.

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Very big issue specifically that one type of diabetes.

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And then we need to do something about it. So if you have an association that really willing to try something,

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they they then been involved from day one into the design process because the knowledge was absolutely invaluable, didn't have the knowledge of them.

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But what was interesting that while they were involved, we needed to involve all of the partners.

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So we had the mobile companies or telecom companies and with Orange and we did one Tiago Gamble and,

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and then we needed to include the W.H.O. headquarter, but also for the future local.

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And even in that conversation, the same thing happened.

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That always happens in I think, when a lot of stakeholders comes together knowing what they want to solve.

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And everybody sounds like this is my position, this is my position, this is my position, this is my position.

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And then I was just an observer because I had no position.

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And I just asked them saying like, can I just have a question?

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How many of you are actually suffering from diabetes or somebody right next to you at home having problems with that and everybody's hands on top?

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And I said, well, can we talk about diabetes? Because I don't care that you are all two and I don't care who you are at this stage.

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What we care about is there is a problem, there's a mission. And if we align ourselves to the mission rather than even to our organisational

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mindset of who we are and what we stand for and what our organisational identity is,

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then you actually create something that is more collective and collaborative.

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And I think that's something that we are still not doing well because the conformity of how we exist as humans,

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that's just again due to the pinch of salt, what I say.

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And so but that really changed the conversation because suddenly both of the telecom said, actually I don't want that.

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I just want this book, just go and do it. You know what?

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We just here just do it. I want this to happen. And then we actually people's behaviours, one mobile phone,

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but they have force contracts because they choose the different contracts to communicate with people based upon the better deal normal human beings.

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Right. You want the better deal on your phone, not like this. And that's how they operate.

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So still the numbers were very low because there was only like 23,000 people taking GitHub and that was not enough until

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we realised that we are missing one thing that the seriously overlooked and it's actually religion and behaviour,

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right? Human behaviour. So if you if you fast.

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It doesn't matter if you're diabetic or not, you will fast, because that's what God told you to do, sir.

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And you follow that rule. And some of them doesn't even know that they have type one, type two diabetes.

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So that's another thing that they kept collapsing because of their blood sugar and then you end up in hospital.

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But then when they were changing it to say and then the teamed up, the whole process, the intervention to match the behavioural pattern of people,

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what they do through Ramadan, suddenly you use the tool to make sure they are fast, safely.

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So actually religion was the driving factor for them.

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So by using these messaging, they were able to use and pass safely,

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which then created and the unforeseen consequences for us was just positive that the number of people admitted

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to hospital just reduced tremendously and that it also led us into now over like over 400,000 people using it,

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which is a completely different intervention to 2000.

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And one of the biggest challenge, I think what we face in international development, the public health that we do pilot project,

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they project six month pilot projects or a year pilot project, usually six months,

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and then be claiming that it's successful because the interviews that.

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It's not successful until a system gets it, takes it off and beds it and then start new services on top of it.

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Then it becomes a sustainable innovation. Until then, it's a pilot project.

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So this is where I think sustainability and social innovation has elements.

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And what it left into is as actually improved digital infrastructure, which is the bonus,

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but also introduce new support services, gave people jobs, created a new clinic, created new healthcare services, and then.

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And actually enables the Diabetic Patient Association to grow and access resources

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to set up a whole hospital that they could then specifically treat people.

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And so. Why am I putting him up?

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And the reason I'm putting him up, because in 1970s, he claimed that the only social responsibility of business is the maximisation of profits.

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And that put us down in the rabbit hole of capitalism.

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And then we went into the thing that.

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Well, funny thing is, which I think you heard once I said that Ed Penrose was before Friedman But you guess when she was acting.

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So probably her voice as a woman wasn't as powerful at that time.

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So her whole idea, which was around social innovation, was slightly overlooked.

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And then we needed to come back in the 1990s when we said,

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actually profit making needs some purpose because if you actually just making profit for the sake of profit, that's not leading us anywhere.

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And I'm not arguing about because people always said to me like, Yeah, but it's entrepreneurship isn't it.

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Not profit generation and maximisation that.

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What if you optimise and not maximise your sales to sustainable?

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You're still solving problems, you're still growing.

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You just not being a bloody unicorn straight away dominating because they are in cartoons and other things.

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Okay, there's some there's some companies that managed to do that.

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But this whole idea that that's the only thing that is a success and entrepreneurship again, is a false idea, I think.

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And then again, I think it's interesting, hey, the different growth of why social enterprise become very much interesting and important,

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I think, is because there are different drivers around here, around social impact and specifically value in public health.

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And the drivers are slightly different.

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And if you're an international development or international health as well, the drivers are development.

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But there's a movement. There's a movement because of that 1970s mindset and that mindset cannot be applied now.

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All the world doesn't work that way If you keep doing the same thing the way you've got it before,

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it's going to lead us down into having that is not fun.

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We're still doing it. Not not saying let's not be human beings, so greed will never die.

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And so we just have to accept the fact that that's a case.

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And then what can we do about it to change it? Now,

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what I believe in when it comes to creating value for social enterprises specifically and why cannot be drift somewhere in the middle and then say,

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yes, go on and start new opportunities? Yes.

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Go and create innovation. Yes. Go and set up businesses.

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I'm not arguing that business is bad and I'm arguing with money.

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If money is wrong, then it's a good it's a good thing and some people are driven by it.

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And why not? If you do it ethically and if you do it in a way that is not maximising profit but optimising profit,

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optimising resources and actually is driven by a mission,

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something that is bigger than yourself, something that is bigger than just creating a major,

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you know, I am or another act increases the amount of assets in my life.

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I know that I am, but some of them are kids and and we have to be Mobile is a text messaging tool.

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So again, some of them. But has does it make a difference what I'm arguing or is it just another angry bird that one can eat?

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Right. So there's different values here that you can consider.

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And I think when it comes to the asking and profit planet and people,

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you've got this sort of things like where do I want to position myself when it

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thinks about finding solutions to problems that are actually socially constructed,

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problems heavily embedded into society, culturally overwhelmed, and I need to do something about it.

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And in a Western world, what we haven't learned,

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and I think there's a lot to learn from the so-called developing countries is why is there that In India,

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when I walk in to okay, you have to be in certain parts of India,

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it's not everywhere exists, but then you walk into a hospital, you've got your eyes,

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can you go to have an x ray and then you have your x ray and then within 24

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hours you have a text message from your X-ray that you can show to your doctor.

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I had an MRI with the NHS. It took them three months to get me the MRI and another four months to give me the results, like seven months of my knee.

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So that's. Why is that?

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When we are living in the so-called Western developed world.

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Is because of the institutions that we developed are now actually biting us because they are so bureaucratically

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overwhelmed and they're so happy that when you're working in them very quickly conforming them.

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And then that's that's a challenge to all of us that can be create new ways of actually solving problems.

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And then and that this is where I think the role of social enterprises in social entrepreneurship is.

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And it's not just me saying it, it's but honestly and and thoughts and says it.

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And if she says it, then she's a very wise woman. And it took ten years for the Open University to exist.

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The idea of the Open University was something that people were not even interested.

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It took ten years for actually an open university to set up an office and then do the work it does.

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But the idea was valid because they needed education.

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That is different from the education of a traditional institutional form, because not everybody has the opportunity to do that education.

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Right. So when it comes to how are you preserving society that is not the mainstream?

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How are you solving society that has so many differences in them?

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And. When it comes to social businesses.

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And this is where I see social enterprise and social innovation within the house care system.

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I don't say to replace the healthcare system, certainly not.

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But if you look at public health, that operates on a spectrum, yeah, you've got prevention,

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you've got urgency emergency and you've got like social care, health care.

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What do we hear? The prevention. Although.

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Which leads into this emergency. Emergency become longer and longer and longer because the people get there earlier.

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Yes. But they also stay quite long. And then you have social care after care or B, just running out of resources anyway.

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So what are we going to do about that? We don't know.

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But all of our effort goes into this emergency emergency emergency care and then we trying to do all of our best here while actually,

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if we were to do much more in here to prevent and shorten this cycle, which takes weight of the system.

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And then you are actually reallocating resources.

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And I'm thinking that social enterprise, social entrepreneurship innovations for that purpose in public health actually has the capacity.

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To work within the system and take the weight off.

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And then when you're in public house, you have an absolute prime opportunity to think about solutions that are actually matters in those settings.

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I think print is one of my favourite little company because I know because I work with them is because

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I think what they do is is truly represents what I considered a mission orientated social enterprise.

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And Toby Norman, who is an MBA, was an MBA and he came from the U.S. and then he was just very passionate about doing something.

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He didn't really know what he wanted to do, but what he wanted to do is something that makes a difference.

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And then he started to just talk.

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And you're sitting in a position where you are surrounded by people from different industry, different sectors, different fields.

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You are in different colleges where people are bringing in different viewpoints.

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You use that bloody network to figure it out, what you're passionate about and then use it.

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And then connect it and create it. That's the fun part, because then you need to find what makes you what drives you.

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And if it's app. Fine. But design one that is really making the difference.

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Okay. And then I'm happy. And I also why there's a social impact investment fund that invested and invested in involved with and also invested in.

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And and what I always care is not the vehicle you you bring me that matters to me but is what problem is trying to solve it that what is the

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impact you're going to create but real impact and D and the only reason you can answer that question if you really understand the problem.

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So it's really dissecting that problem to the core and then the behavioural lenses superimposed on that.

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And so what they did, what I said is that they identified, they went out and they said vaccination to everyone.

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Yes, but so what? People don't have an identity.

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So they designed this tiny little fingerprint device and then they went to rural communities and then they're registering people into the system.

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And as soon as people were registered into the system,

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suddenly they records were hold and then suddenly vaccination could reach to the right people at the right time.

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And then and they teamed up with GAVI. So one of their biggest strategic partner is GAVI.

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And then there you go. Your supply chain was already built up. It wasn't the problem that GAVI doesn't have a supply chain.

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What was the problem? That we didn't know who to reach.

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So and they are social enterprise and but they are for food, for food, profit, social enterprise.

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And this is where I think the misconception is with social enterprise.

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It's not charity, it's not non-for-profit is for profit business.

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The social mission at the core of it, which means when you're setting up a company structure, you have a lock, an aspect lock.

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Your social mission is locked into the company and then whoever invests into your company cannot change that mission,

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which you are actually putting yourself in the position that whatever.

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Funding thing receive. The mission that you set out to accomplish will not change.

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So is the redistribution of the funds you do. And also one of the ones which is the Irvine Eyecare Centre,

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which again started with a very tiny mission, a very tiny mission, which was we really need to give.

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Some of the problem with people's eyesight is that people sometimes not at not not

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having a job or not not reading because they cannot is because they simply cannot see.

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And it's not because of anything else apart from They need a pair of glasses.

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They need an examination of the eyesight, knowing what's happening,

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and then give the right pair of glasses so they can actually go back in and create opportunities for themselves.

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So the simplest form was, how can we solve this problem?

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How can we design and create high quality and affordable care for people,

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for giving back the opportunity for and actually integrating back to society?

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And what happens through that? They designed a business model which started off with one small element, and then now there are hospitals,

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five hospitals, eye services across, and not just in India but elsewhere.

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There's education and training. There's research there.

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There's so much because we've created an ecosystem around it.

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You had a problem, you had a mission.

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A mission was bigger than just a simple solution, and you created a collaboration and ecosystem that enables you to and as you say,

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social enterprise are a part of our everyday life.

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They are very successful social enterprises that you see there, and they all have a very different business model,

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which is a different lecture or session of what type of business model social enterprise has, but it has so many ways.

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But what they do, like Harry, respect is very simple chocolate.

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What they difference by product is chocolate. What they do.

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They chocolatiers who they work with. They workforce are autistic kids and autistic adults.

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So they train them, they give them jobs, they give them opportunities.

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They have the part of the economy that's called the subsidisation model.

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Not sorry, that's called employment employability model. Subsidisation is the divine ticket.

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And also if you think about.

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And in a system level, one of the biggest problem for people leaving the prisons is the the level of re-offending, the rate of reoffending.

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Right. So if you leave a prison system,

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it's not that you a better person and you want to do crime again is the fact that that's what you know and then probably society's not

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really kind to integrate you back and then also probably lost all of the connections that you had before your family or any connections,

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social connections. And what you know is very where before. So you just keep using the same thing, which means reoffending rates are super high.

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So one of the companies in the U.S. and and then you'll come to me in a minute at Grace and Bakery,

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they created a model which is they only employ people who are coming out of prison.

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They train them. They that you can have a career path in a company.

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And what they make, they make them the the chocolate brownies that you have in Ben and Jerry.

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That's what they do at very simple, very simple things and makes such a huge difference.

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And you don't have to become an entrepreneur. You don't have to start a social enterprise to make a difference.

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You can think about how do I apply that mindset into a public organisation or a government or into industry and then work through that.

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But why?

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You should care if you care about social enterprise as a as a fun thing to do and because is is actually worth up to 60 billion now to the UK economy,

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which is not too bad for social enterprise itself. It is definitely a movement.

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47 of social enterprises are actually led by women and I think that's increasing and we need more men there to be more socially conscious than we are.

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And it's and it's employing over 2 million people.

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It's a big it's a big movement.

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And it's not a movement that is new, is a movement that have been needed because we need to work with communities.

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We need to engage with communities. We need to understand people.

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We need to understand society in a much deeper level.

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And if you want to use technology to teach, to bridge that gap, by all means, do that.

393
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:35,080
But first, you really socially want to understand where the problem lies, and then how do you come up with solutions to them?

394
00:43:37,450 --> 00:43:47,520
I'm going to go in there. But what is interesting around social impact, which I think it's very much at the forefront of, and when you talk about ESG,

395
00:43:47,530 --> 00:43:54,849
if you if you if you if you work for organisations where people say you need to meet the

396
00:43:54,850 --> 00:44:02,259
ESG agenda and that's an intensification of the government that I might not disapprove,

397
00:44:02,260 --> 00:44:04,630
but I think is the way has been used,

398
00:44:05,290 --> 00:44:16,360
it's creating the unforeseen consequences that we are again doing box thinking exercise rather than actually knowing how to create an impact.

399
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:29,320
So if you ever end up in that position, rethink what environmental, social and economy core value creation is in the sense of the organisation direct.

400
00:44:30,250 --> 00:44:39,520
But I think at that stage I stop and then any questions you have, I'm very happy to answer.