1 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,680 So welcome everybody. 2 00:00:17,830 --> 00:00:25,450 And we are very fortunate today to host a presentation from the remarkable critical history of the Northern Treasures Research Project. 3 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:31,410 This is a research project of six persons funded by the French National Research Agency, 4 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:37,170 whose purpose is to document the history of the junk or northern treasures, traditions of neem oil Buddhism. 5 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,569 Their prolific output so far includes two special editions of the leading to better logical journal 6 00:00:43,570 --> 00:00:49,480 Authority and numerous entries in a highly recommended academic blog called Northern Treasures Histories. 7 00:00:50,630 --> 00:00:52,190 You can find it online quite easily. 8 00:00:53,060 --> 00:01:00,740 The main goal is a complete, critical, annotated study of the large young to children or history of the northern treasures by chewing. 9 00:01:02,820 --> 00:01:07,050 Uh, Stefan Aguiar is a scientific coordinator and will be the main speaker today. 10 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,840 Stefan. The great top ten most unusual kid at the age of 17 and began studying Tibetan. 11 00:01:13,650 --> 00:01:20,040 He won the prestigious Agassi on the philosophy in 1992, and then taught philosophy in high schools for some years. 12 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:26,430 He defended a PhD on long tenure in 22, followed by I believe in 2009. 13 00:01:27,270 --> 00:01:29,729 Stefan has written a number of well-known books in French, 14 00:01:29,730 --> 00:01:35,250 including translations of Midtum and Grampa, A Study of Longchamp, and Talking to Those Going to. 15 00:01:35,580 --> 00:01:38,820 I believe an English version of the Longchamp book will come soon. 16 00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:44,610 Stefan is currently full professor and associate vice president at in Elko in Paris. 17 00:01:44,850 --> 00:01:48,410 It's Finnish. I'm not associate vice president anymore. Oh yeah. 18 00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:53,730 I'm good. And I finished. A second pillar of the project is doctor Jean-Luc. 19 00:01:54,600 --> 00:02:02,430 Jean-Luc is researcher at the National Centre for Scientific Research, and well known to all of us as the editor of authority Data to Bitcoin. 20 00:02:02,970 --> 00:02:08,910 He specialises in blockchain, both new and born, and is currently working on a blockchain wiki as well as a dictionary. 21 00:02:08,910 --> 00:02:12,960 Adoption terminology. And of course we all know him from numerous publications. 22 00:02:14,190 --> 00:02:20,040 A third pillar is Jay Valentine, associate professor of philosophy and religion at Troy University in Alabama, USA. 23 00:02:20,190 --> 00:02:23,520 Most of his research has been on the history of the Northern Traces tradition, 24 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,160 and he is currently working on a translation of the biography of Greeks in Good Time, whose tenures form its basis. 25 00:02:29,310 --> 00:02:34,720 He too has many publications. The project also has three junior members. 26 00:02:35,410 --> 00:02:40,660 She did her PhD at the year in Paris on the history of the morphic cashew lineage. 27 00:02:41,230 --> 00:02:46,299 Tempered. Sharing. But son graduated from the Central Institute for Higher Tibetan Studies in Varanasi and 28 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:51,010 from 2019 to 21 was lecturer in Tibetan language and Literature at the University of Bonn. 29 00:02:51,670 --> 00:02:57,310 Since 2021, he has taught Tibetan language in Elko and joined this project in 2022. 30 00:02:57,940 --> 00:03:04,269 He is currently pursuing a PhD in alcohol on the Northern Treasures Masters 20 Drug resistant pyramid. 31 00:03:04,270 --> 00:03:13,360 Trinity. Simon is a research assistant on the project and has published an article about the tragic tobacco sorcery in authority. 32 00:03:13,780 --> 00:03:17,380 So thank you for coming and, uh, very excited to hear your work. 33 00:03:17,390 --> 00:03:23,680 Please. Uh, over to you, Stefan. Thank you very much, Robert, for your nice introduction. 34 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:31,060 And thank you, everybody for coming. Um, I'm not sure we will, uh, present very new perspectives, but let's try. 35 00:03:31,300 --> 00:03:41,510 So, um. I think it's no use to insist on the project, as it was very well presented, except that you you'll find here the, uh, the, um, 36 00:03:41,810 --> 00:03:51,260 link for the, um, the academic blog that that we've set on the northern treasures histories, which I can actually communicate to you later. 37 00:03:52,220 --> 00:03:58,950 And, uh, so let's let's start. Uh, so, uh, um, uh, the. 38 00:03:59,190 --> 00:04:06,360 Well, we will not be discussing the juncture as such as all but only, uh, one of its two Georgian cycles. 39 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:16,350 The most famous one, the composition or consumption presented, which was, uh, rightly presented by, uh, Qatar in that opinion as, um, an anthology. 40 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:24,340 Um, and uh, its special feature, uh, I mean, from a Tibetan perspective is that it is a combination or two. 41 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:30,090 It is viewed as a combination of the, the tradition of the three with other masters. 42 00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:34,230 That would be Padma samba, VA VA Malami, Transvaal, China. 43 00:04:34,980 --> 00:04:43,230 Uh, so that's interesting as such because, uh, um, the composition title was supposedly reviewed in 1366. 44 00:04:43,230 --> 00:04:49,330 In fact, we can discuss that later. But there is a an issue about the deciphering of the contradict. 45 00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:52,830 Uh, that can be scripts, uh, which um, 46 00:04:53,070 --> 00:05:01,080 which is interesting as such because it means that the terms should not always be dated of the year in which it is said to have been discovered, 47 00:05:01,620 --> 00:05:08,400 because in many cases we see the the corpus. I will discuss that for the community being sort of, uh. 48 00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:16,020 Put down into intelligible writing. Uh, years after it was discovered. 49 00:05:16,770 --> 00:05:23,790 So the the the thing, the thing of the reason, um, some is very important because we are, in fact. 50 00:05:23,790 --> 00:05:31,760 So say, uh, 20 something years after, uh, long jump as a large synthesis of, of the, the two niantic's. 51 00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:39,840 And now we have a third one. I mean, there's a not only a Vimla mitra tradition, the demanding punishment ever tradition, the communistic. 52 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,370 But no, there is something more, which is a bit wasn't, uh, tradition is a bit. 53 00:05:44,370 --> 00:05:45,780 It's another translator, of course. 54 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:54,330 So anyway, the implicit idea is that of a complete tradition, but a more complete tradition because it has the origin on some, 55 00:05:54,780 --> 00:06:01,290 uh, that the, the, um, the ninja, the oral transmissions from the, the three others. 56 00:06:01,590 --> 00:06:09,510 So from, from this point, traditional point of view through the anthology, because it's a combination of different corpora and, 57 00:06:09,510 --> 00:06:18,110 uh, and it is also one from the point of view of a modern, uh, philologist reader, because it feels, um, pretty composites. 58 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,779 Um, and even not I mean, I'm not including in the anthology. 59 00:06:21,780 --> 00:06:26,340 We can discuss that later with Katharina. We did in her dissertation. 60 00:06:26,850 --> 00:06:31,980 Uh, I'm not including the grand share with to which to me, something altogether different. 61 00:06:35,230 --> 00:06:38,730 Mhm. So, uh. 62 00:06:39,740 --> 00:06:44,690 So I will cast the female ammeter and vote on the traditions. 63 00:06:44,690 --> 00:06:50,810 Aside from this presentation. We could discuss them, but, uh, the female led me to a tradition. 64 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:58,460 Female led me to a corpus is basically one very large text called the image of the junta masters called image. 65 00:06:58,730 --> 00:07:03,090 It's not the title in the in the book, plus several entries. 66 00:07:03,110 --> 00:07:07,060 What is interesting and we could discuss and, uh, 67 00:07:07,070 --> 00:07:13,250 that's mostly George could discuss that is that things that are presented in the demanding as the manga. 68 00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:20,600 Uh, reappear really in the nearly the same form in the, uh, in the composition as tantrums. 69 00:07:20,620 --> 00:07:27,310 That's something I will not discuss. And then as for the vital channel corpus, there are at least four new images. 70 00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:31,510 Um, which I will also not discuss. 71 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,930 Uh, which, uh, interesting. I mean, they really have a style. I mean, these corpora are not just literary fictions. 72 00:07:37,930 --> 00:07:45,130 They they, for any reason, could be very skilful pastiche, I don't know, but they don't have the same characteristics. 73 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:52,420 Uh, for example, as pointed by some commentators, there are differences in the, uh, the presentation of the full visions of the, 74 00:07:52,690 --> 00:07:58,150 the the time when you pass from the one to the next according to the five millimetre or the Padma, 75 00:07:58,180 --> 00:08:03,250 some other corpus that was noted by Longchamp, and this is found also inside the composition. 76 00:08:03,550 --> 00:08:12,520 So it didn't go then, did not make it consistent. And, uh, so in the corpus, you don't have these elaborate discussions on the luminous visions. 77 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:18,010 It's more about the distinction of semantic the, the, uh, bardo states and things like that. 78 00:08:19,090 --> 00:08:24,500 Okay. So I just guess this aside. So. Sorry. 79 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:31,100 Um. Now, as for the biomass and beverage tradition in the. 80 00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:40,020 So a remark that that is a bit amusing or puzzling is that there is no. 81 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:51,429 It seems to me that there is no consistent narrative. On how these the traditions of the three we are masters got compiled and uh, um, sort of. 82 00:08:51,430 --> 00:08:53,979 Yeah. Uh, against as a, 83 00:08:53,980 --> 00:09:03,340 as a one were called the comparison tell the main narrative that you find in the term is mostly about the pants and other tradition and um. 84 00:09:05,580 --> 00:09:15,300 And in fact, the points to the starting point of all this presentation is that if we cast the v millimetre and vital channel materials aside, 85 00:09:15,870 --> 00:09:19,670 what remains of the total is pretty similar to the communicating. 86 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:39,270 So I will present in two parts. Uh, I would summarise because of course it's only the details that are interesting and we don't have time for details, 87 00:09:39,270 --> 00:09:47,010 but I will, uh, present things from the hotel to the condo and then from the condo linked to the hotel. 88 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:58,440 So first, something, uh, interesting is that the massively or mainly, uh, centrally describes itself as a muslim tradition, 89 00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:04,500 although it contains also these elements ascribed to Vimla mitra, or later channel. 90 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:10,510 And in fact, it even describes itself as a larger version of the community. 91 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:17,560 So this is a not so not self obvious even for the followers of that tradition. 92 00:10:17,890 --> 00:10:23,290 But here is a prophecy, uh, that is uh, in in the title. 93 00:10:24,580 --> 00:10:32,989 Uh, that, uh, actually shows that, uh, well, that in reading good times understanding basically the, 94 00:10:32,990 --> 00:10:37,000 the, the sorry, the component that is the condoning uh, the same thing. 95 00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:42,610 Well, what it can mean is open to discussion. So, but the, the idea is there. 96 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:50,390 So. I've presented the Tibet Index because it's quite puzzling, so it's worth having it. 97 00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:57,510 For those who can read it, and under your eyes while I discuss the well on the basis of the translation. 98 00:10:58,050 --> 00:11:04,180 So says the great. The last fully complete version was hidden at the lone Rock in London. 99 00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:10,080 Boomtown. So that's puzzling because, uh. 100 00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:15,990 Uh, what what what was found in Boomtown, which is connected to the condo. 101 00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:23,820 Niantic. So it could be various things. Of course, it cannot be linked, but because it's much anterior, it's much prior to a permalink this time. 102 00:11:24,330 --> 00:11:27,660 But it it might be that it might show that, uh, 103 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:36,480 it didn't go them was aware of what Longchamp had been doing about that would be the condo that would be launched in that scandal, possibly. 104 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:42,959 It could also be, well, that's what I wrote, that it was it should be noted that it could also be the, 105 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,370 in fact, the long sell tantra that was said to be hidden and found in Boomtown. 106 00:11:47,790 --> 00:11:54,810 So the long sale for those who are not specialists is the 18th century, the 17th centuries of the 19th. 107 00:11:55,730 --> 00:12:00,200 Plus the normal tumour as the 18th. But the other 18th is the long cell. 108 00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:07,880 So which is the supposedly the basis of the community in complement to the 17th centuries. 109 00:12:08,630 --> 00:12:15,290 So then it was abbreviated and its summary is hidden at the very gated rock in the country of the poor. 110 00:12:15,710 --> 00:12:20,510 So this is the, uh, uh, findings of the community proper. 111 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:27,480 The complete version that focuses on the meaning is hidden in some sort of ladder, so that's obviously driven by something. 112 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:35,580 It doesn't allow dogs the place where it's in good and found all his treasures, but it could possibly also be the wrong answer. 113 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,320 But there are no affinities between the organisation and the community. 114 00:12:40,410 --> 00:12:45,360 In my perception, the one in which contemplation is the main thing, 115 00:12:45,570 --> 00:12:53,010 which conforms to the effortless aspect of the practice is in the belly of the Naga demon, uh, at the southern rock. 116 00:12:53,010 --> 00:13:00,240 Sorry, there's at missing in maybe so I cannot discuss that, but it's, um, 117 00:13:00,510 --> 00:13:05,610 plain from the context that it's a term about your intending to build the attitude of a teacher. 118 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,629 So I was just mentioned in passing. The importance is a chain link. 119 00:13:09,630 --> 00:13:15,570 That is the person who gave the, uh, the key and uh, maybe key and cajon of the, 120 00:13:15,570 --> 00:13:20,040 of the Tama to primarily jail cell and then received it from payment itself. 121 00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:24,150 And he was a contemporary of Longchamp and survived in by a few years. 122 00:13:24,750 --> 00:13:32,280 Uh, he was from the previous generation is contemporary of Gelson JLC but he had a long life. 123 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,180 He lived for eight years, so he outlived, uh, long temper. 124 00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:42,180 And the complete method for liberating one single individual is hidden in the best in in show. 125 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,600 So this is also referring to, uh, returning back. 126 00:13:46,020 --> 00:13:56,310 Uh, it's described in his biography that he, he had a vision of, uh, um, uh, Pamela Jensen after Pamela Anderson, uh, had had passed away. 127 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,640 And, uh, and this is in that place, and then that's how he was told where he would find the text, 128 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,990 uh, that it where it would be brought, the text that had been revealed by him. 129 00:14:07,290 --> 00:14:10,740 So that's a summary of the. That's my deciphering of the prophecy. 130 00:14:10,950 --> 00:14:16,620 So it's in my original paper. If you want all the arguments to prove that it's, uh, it's the it's the case. 131 00:14:16,950 --> 00:14:20,819 So I'm just a bit perplexed about the first one and the, 132 00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:32,280 the I it would be the only trace I know in good times revelations that he was aware of of, uh, of Longchamp as discoveries, uh, writings. 133 00:14:34,210 --> 00:14:38,200 Uh, but as I said, it could be also the country itself. 134 00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:46,620 It would make sense if it would be the nominal barometer. And also it could be link back. 135 00:14:47,610 --> 00:14:49,530 That's another hypothesis, but we're not. 136 00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:58,740 Uh, the interest is that some of those best terms are put in the same category in the region of which I would discuss later, 137 00:14:58,740 --> 00:15:03,100 and I think some were found in Boomtown, but I'm not very good at dodging. 138 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:08,100 So that's that's something that is for us to research in the future. 139 00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:15,860 So, uh, maybe Katarina will not agree, but, uh, the, um, the. 140 00:15:15,860 --> 00:15:20,570 For me, the boundaries of the Pima section of the hotel is not clearly marked in the corpus. 141 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:30,139 Uh, so it would seem to me to include everything that is not explicitly bima or bero and, uh, so, uh, 142 00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:37,130 except, uh, some large tensions in the comparison are, um, very akin to materials found in the B mining. 143 00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:41,650 So, no, I would present shortly because it would be too long to do it. 144 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,730 But the things the other way round from the from the community to the until. 145 00:15:47,060 --> 00:15:51,470 So I made a provisional table. It's also in my region in the paper. 146 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,700 Uh, but, uh, I mean, it's very provisional and I think, uh, 147 00:15:55,790 --> 00:16:05,959 only because since that time we compared the text more carefully and surely found many, I mean, more precise and relevant things. 148 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:17,630 On the question and important point I just say in passing is that the, um, the Compass Centre does not quote extensively the Long Self Tantra. 149 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:24,480 In fact, it's just quoted maybe twice or three times in passage that may even have been added later. 150 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:30,950 I mean, it's it's not as if didn't go them had was very familiar to the this tantra which is 151 00:16:30,950 --> 00:16:35,689 supposed to be the background of the community and that's as such an argument against, 152 00:16:35,690 --> 00:16:39,050 uh, against myself, against what I'm trying to to show. 153 00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:46,940 So in, in this table, I tried to, um, to show what is parallel between the two. 154 00:16:47,450 --> 00:16:56,060 And I put so on the, the column on the left, you have, uh, the containing as we have, it's appended to long chambers writings, 155 00:16:56,570 --> 00:17:06,470 which as such is a bit strange because it's not that common that a corpus that is not supposed to be, uh, master's term is found in his writings. 156 00:17:08,370 --> 00:17:14,459 On the second column, they put, uh, a catalogue of what I call lunatic 1984. 157 00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:18,350 So that's, uh, a little book, I mean, a little manuscript that I, 158 00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:25,470 I randomly bought when I was in Nepal long ago and which in fact is, uh, uh, very, very interesting manuscript. 159 00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:29,819 It's, uh, maybe you know, it. It's a small volume. I have it somewhere. 160 00:17:29,820 --> 00:17:35,190 I'll show you after I think I put a picture of it, that at some point, uh, it's a small volume and it's, 161 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:42,660 it's presented as, uh, of from a and maybe incomplete and disordered manuscript from the Library of Lima, so on. 162 00:17:42,660 --> 00:17:47,940 So and in fact, it's an extremely interesting version of the kind of trick because, uh, 163 00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:54,510 it's easy when you read the manuscript to, to see that it comes from original link, better engineering per tradition. 164 00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:58,530 And it does not go further than like 1 or 2 generations of the original link. 165 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:06,149 So it means it was. Copied from an 15th century original, and it retains some, 166 00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:15,570 surely some aspects of the contradicting before being edited by Longchamp or independently of what Longchamp may have added or subtracted and all. 167 00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:22,020 That's why it's pretty interesting. So, um, what do we have that can be compared? 168 00:18:22,050 --> 00:18:27,360 We have some, uh, narratives, but the narrative is quite different. 169 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:32,460 Like that is not in the composition until this famous story of the Princess Marcel, you know, 170 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:40,139 who dies and is revived by some other just to receive the community and then re dies to be later reborn 171 00:18:40,140 --> 00:18:47,160 as permanently in the discovery of the kind of something that is common is also the third world cycle. 172 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:56,370 So this is, you know, the tensions that, uh, liberates through being worn on your body normally or under your armpits, basically. 173 00:18:57,180 --> 00:19:01,680 But that's not super specific. I mean, this could be found as well to. 174 00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:10,459 You know, because I mean, it's in fact, we've been discussing that very much with, uh, Jean-Luc. 175 00:19:10,460 --> 00:19:14,660 And the problem is that many to incorporate a sort of overlapping. 176 00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:26,810 So you cannot very easily identify, uh, one branch, uh, from the main bulk of the, of the enigmatic listening type of doctrine context. 177 00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:31,250 And, uh, it's like many corpora of parts of others, 178 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:39,440 but you cannot easily set them into families that would the one family would have this feature and not not not the others, 179 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,459 I mean, in a very distinctive way. But that's what I'm trying to do. 180 00:19:43,460 --> 00:19:50,930 In fact, it's trying to say, is there a sort of continuity family within the, uh, the structure in the literature? 181 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,550 So the Dugdale cycle is not also very specific feature. 182 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:04,500 What is more specific is a five implement system. Uh in the in the be mining take basically you have four and Parliament's. 183 00:20:05,250 --> 00:20:12,690 Uh it means that the Capital One is included in the fourth or is is presented as a sub division of the fourth, 184 00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:18,870 but it's sort of aligned on the general high attentions or empowerment system. 185 00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:24,600 While in the condoning tech you clearly have five and this feature is also found in the composition. 186 00:20:25,050 --> 00:20:31,830 That means the the repeats element is made a fifth uh, empowerment and not confused with the fourth. 187 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:41,360 So then you have this cycle of the Testaments, the. But this also is not a very specific, uh, feature. 188 00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:46,940 Now, what is more specific is this, uh, practice of the five families, the ringer. 189 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:57,020 So, in fact, in the communistic system of practice, uh, you have this, uh, practice for the first empowerment, uh, 190 00:20:57,380 --> 00:21:05,530 corresponding to the boom on the vows, initiation or atonement, uh, which is connected to the so-called, uh, ringer. 191 00:21:05,540 --> 00:21:11,029 So there is tied up and up and in the conversations that you would find a sound group also. 192 00:21:11,030 --> 00:21:20,540 But, uh, uh, this is, uh, what, to put it simply, is like the peaceful and wrathful deities, but it's the manual of the five, the Buddhas and and all. 193 00:21:20,540 --> 00:21:23,690 And that's that's that seems to be, um. 194 00:21:24,260 --> 00:21:30,020 Yeah. I mean, it's very homogeneous between the, uh, the, the going percentile and the, um. 195 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:38,400 Uh, I'm going to. Well, that's just more on the same stuff. 196 00:21:48,410 --> 00:21:54,260 Well, yeah. That's for example, you have a good example that you text with exactly the same title. 197 00:21:56,580 --> 00:22:07,530 This. This number is infecting, uh, and when the 114 something, it it means that it's, uh, number 14 in volume one in the asm dupa edition. 198 00:22:07,890 --> 00:22:14,790 So I've not made the work, but in fact, plenty of the, the common texts are either in volume one or in volume for, for any reason. 199 00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:20,150 But not all this. For example, this is in volume three talks about the signs of accomplishment. 200 00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:22,250 So this is also not that specific. 201 00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:31,390 I mean, it would be only a further comparison that would show whether basically it comes from the demanding but through the comparison, 202 00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:35,540 sorry, through the condoning or not. So that that's the issue in fact. 203 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:40,880 Spider teachings also can be compared but do not have to be identical. 204 00:22:43,410 --> 00:22:57,370 Tulane practice appears in both corpora, but in the in the current intake is, uh, you want to do insulin while in the, uh, the, uh, uh, composite. 205 00:22:57,750 --> 00:23:03,630 It's two Tulane practice. Tulane with a just you are fasting, just taking water and nothing else. 206 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,850 Protectors are not the same. Exactly. Guru yoga is not, in that case, the same. 207 00:23:08,850 --> 00:23:17,060 Because in the in the until you would find a guru yoga with, uh, the millimetre which is more typical of the of the demonic to. 208 00:23:23,410 --> 00:23:27,219 Now that's more interesting. And maybe that's that's what we're finally. 209 00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:30,250 There's more on the actual cycle, but this is not very specific. 210 00:23:30,610 --> 00:23:39,610 But then the practices of the virtual variety and I agree were corresponding to the third and fourth sorry, second and third mistake and performance. 211 00:23:40,270 --> 00:23:43,540 Uh, these are really common. These are almost identical. 212 00:23:44,020 --> 00:23:51,489 And I will not have time to develop. But there is an appendix to written Good and Revelations by Tenney. 213 00:23:51,490 --> 00:23:55,360 Link back and master was active at this beginning of the 16th century. 214 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:01,640 And the idea which in fact is in very large development, 215 00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:08,440 and something that is already present in the kind of tech is the sort of inner yoga practices of the community. 216 00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:14,080 So this is clearly, uh, in that I mean, that that's nearly what inspired this idea. 217 00:24:14,650 --> 00:24:22,930 Um, to me, I mean, that the, the, the, um, the composition and the controlling goals are so closely connected. 218 00:24:22,930 --> 00:24:29,200 So, I mean, that was just very superficial overview, but, uh, it shows at least what should be compared carefully. 219 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:40,470 And then it's only the very precise philological comparison that will show whether, um, and it didn't go them is sort of producing a hyper term to, 220 00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:50,230 uh, in fact, in the, um, the, uh, transcending the paper I was mentioning, I think I more or less proof that link po was written. 221 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:56,559 Good instruction, master. So it means that there was a human link between the and itself. 222 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:57,790 The treasure discoverer. 223 00:24:58,330 --> 00:25:07,570 Uh, the treasure was found in 1313, and then the the time when the good them himself revealed this is that this is very important because, uh, 224 00:25:08,110 --> 00:25:16,920 we have many clues that the community texts were very rare, uh, even rench, and had difficulties to get the complete copy and later Longchamp. 225 00:25:16,990 --> 00:25:21,490 It's well known that is only his disciple said a good show brought him a complete copy. 226 00:25:21,490 --> 00:25:24,790 I mean, it was not something very, very easily available. 227 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:31,020 So we can suppose that even in, uh. But he didn't give them time to get a complete copy of the community. 228 00:25:31,030 --> 00:25:36,479 It was not something that easy. Um, well, first objection. 229 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,880 So I'm making the objections to to myself so that you don't have to bother to, to do them. 230 00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:48,390 His first objection is, as I was saying, that these corpora are very much overlapping. 231 00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:56,970 So it's difficult to say that something is specifically from the condoning stick in the tent, 232 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,270 because it can already be more or less there in the morning. 233 00:26:01,510 --> 00:26:07,060 So it's only a very careful theological examination that will prove it or disprove it. 234 00:26:08,110 --> 00:26:11,290 Uh, and my idea generally is not. It's purely. 235 00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:17,740 It's it has gone through the condo intake before arriving to the present, and that would be that. 236 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,400 Um, so. Um, yeah. 237 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:35,080 When he said on that. So now to generalise generalise generalise a little bit. 238 00:26:35,230 --> 00:26:40,610 So the idea of the working hypothesis that we would like to propose as uh, 239 00:26:41,050 --> 00:26:46,510 I mean just to try to experiment, I mean we, we are not fully convinced that it would work. 240 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:54,970 Um, it requires being tested. It could be phrased like that other and long term literature cycles or parts of cycles 241 00:26:55,300 --> 00:27:00,580 that could be isolated and treated as successive rewriting of one and the same texts. 242 00:27:00,820 --> 00:27:05,620 So, of course, I was very much, uh, inspired by Kathy cancelled, uh, 243 00:27:05,620 --> 00:27:11,770 book on on the Aquila literatures and the editions of determining which of the magical, uh, literary. 244 00:27:11,790 --> 00:27:20,290 Sorry. Uh, but if for those it's slightly maybe more difficult because it's it's, uh, it's clear that it's, um, 245 00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:28,870 a family of families or, or there are sub families in families, and it's not as easy to identify as a date. 246 00:27:28,990 --> 00:27:32,760 I mean, like tantric cycles, they generally work with the data. 247 00:27:32,770 --> 00:27:39,970 And when the data is very similar iconography, it's very likely that the practice is also similar. 248 00:27:40,590 --> 00:27:48,819 Uh, I so like when I was working on the Nehemiah cycles that there was subfamilies like for example, 249 00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:56,350 Nagar Raksha is not the same as uh, uh, Yamanaka in the Haruka form, uh, as commonly found in the general term in Australia. 250 00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:02,890 Literature. So the of this was inspired by a reflection on the taxonomy of the enchanter. 251 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:10,570 The, uh, what does control mean when you put the composition in a section called Permanent Office collection? 252 00:28:10,990 --> 00:28:14,139 So does it only mean which is the primary meaning? 253 00:28:14,140 --> 00:28:17,350 Of course, the action hot essence stemming from Padma. 254 00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:27,360 Other. Incidentally, the discussion of a month ago is interesting because as for Yamanaka, 255 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:33,660 you were in the jump into that cycle and maybe Dylan could discuss also this point. 256 00:28:33,870 --> 00:28:43,020 We clearly have, uh, the, the system stemming from nutrients, energy and charter systems stemming from bad medicine, for example. 257 00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:46,480 So maybe that's the archetype of this duality. 258 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:50,760 Maybe this is the oldest case in which we have two very parallel, uh, 259 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,010 traditions of the same thing, one ascribed to understanding and one ascribed to another master. 260 00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:07,690 Okay. So of course we we we we cannot suppose that the masters assume that terms are the works of their discoverers and they are not, 261 00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:12,129 um, and then that they are not always there necessarily. 262 00:29:12,130 --> 00:29:16,090 Then they are not always very creative writings of all the materials. 263 00:29:16,570 --> 00:29:21,460 But we can suppose that they are more aware than we can be of topological affinities, 264 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:30,280 and that when they construct a category like permanent tic, it does not merely refer to an ascribed narrative or common historical origin. 265 00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:38,770 Origin story that some other teachings origin artisans in the imperial period, but that they also have the feeling that these are all so to say, 266 00:29:38,770 --> 00:29:47,980 various versions of one and the same teaching and not cycles that were originally independent when I said to have told them. 267 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,700 So now the question is. That's the image classification. 268 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:03,100 Can we use some such emic classification devices as starting points. 269 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,920 Sorry for the starting points for historical critical research. 270 00:30:08,430 --> 00:30:18,450 Uh, I mean, the point is, can we shift from a topological approach like, suppose demanding permanently with not only, uh, sort of, um, 271 00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:22,680 a class based on the assumption that these all were taught by Padma somebody, 272 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,990 but would also mean cycles that have content affinities or structure affinities. 273 00:30:28,380 --> 00:30:32,170 And can we shift from that to a genetic, uh, approach, uh, 274 00:30:32,190 --> 00:30:37,829 like placing these text in chronological series and analysing them as one and the same 275 00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:43,230 text that gradually grows or shrinks or gets bent into one or another direction. 276 00:30:43,390 --> 00:30:52,020 So that's just the in fact, the purpose of our presentation tonight is just to present this, uh, hypothesis for discussion. 277 00:30:53,690 --> 00:31:03,499 So another group of interesting points is that the community is a corpus that was not fully finished in the very year when it was revealed, 278 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:10,580 so we know it was revealed. I mean, the Yellow Scrolls were found out by Pamela Jensen, uh, in 1313. 279 00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:17,930 The murderer still dies quickly, so either 1315 or 1319. 280 00:31:19,810 --> 00:31:23,790 Um, well, that's the other detail details. 281 00:31:23,790 --> 00:31:29,850 So, um, let's shift that. But the point is that when he dies. 282 00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:35,700 Uh, we have clues that the tech is not in its final form. 283 00:31:36,730 --> 00:31:41,740 Um, there are three, uh, direct has to be managed. 284 00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:45,250 Revelation one is about something dodgy, maybe. 285 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:51,850 Well, it depends on the accounts, but there is an obscure intermediary figure called Lotte intangible, 286 00:31:52,210 --> 00:31:56,770 who would be a physical terror, like a treasure finding servant. 287 00:31:56,770 --> 00:32:02,709 Sort of, uh, of, uh, permanent jail cell. But in some narratives, it's, uh, um, permanent. 288 00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:11,170 It's told directly to wrongdoing. Dodgy. So his successor is young, topological because he dies in, uh, 1339. 289 00:32:11,170 --> 00:32:19,600 I think, uh, there is also permanent. It's his most famous direct disciple, Jose Legba, the one who finally taught Longchamp. 290 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:26,350 Uh, the and forgave. And I can normalise known temp as a situation by giving him the transmission. 291 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,830 And plus there is also remaining path, uh, 292 00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:37,240 whose posterity was pretty unknown until I suggested and quite I think solid grounds that he may have been reading good instance of Jane Master, 293 00:32:37,420 --> 00:32:45,490 and thus the human link between the condoning tick and, uh, the comparison to what my, my main point is that. 294 00:32:46,750 --> 00:32:51,670 Uh uh, from changing past biographies. 295 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,790 We understand that you got a full textual corpus only around 1321. 296 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,920 So then my implementation was dead already. 297 00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:11,370 And then when he gets the text, I don't give you all the details, but he is then correcting, uh, the, uh, the deciphering of the dialogue. 298 00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:15,180 So it means the text did not have his final version, had not read. 299 00:33:15,390 --> 00:33:19,170 And then we also know from DOJ's biographies that in 1331. 300 00:33:19,950 --> 00:33:25,740 So he had the text recompiled and verified before he passed the lineage to five of his disciples. 301 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:32,340 Uh, especially young people. And that's important that it's the time just before he leaves to Mongolia and not to return, 302 00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:41,340 I mean, not to return for a long time in intimate and long time, but gets the text around 1339. 303 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:49,080 Well, I can justify this, these dates, but, uh, and, uh, and then he immediately sets on writing the code to a young tech, 304 00:33:49,530 --> 00:33:54,000 but, uh, it's probable that he did some additions on the training itself. 305 00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:01,440 Well, what we what? No, we seem to be sure of is that at least you removed his first name from the colophon. 306 00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:04,380 Pretty mean, but it seems to be the case. 307 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:15,120 So my idea is, my meaning is that, uh, we are no sort of, uh, 28 years of 23, 26 years after the text was originally found. 308 00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:19,649 And it just only then acquires its final form. 309 00:34:19,650 --> 00:34:24,540 So I think that's a discussion that is very interesting for this, uh, treasure seminar. 310 00:34:24,990 --> 00:34:32,760 I mean, it's all the I mean, beside the the concern from the other specific point I'm trying to to. 311 00:34:33,830 --> 00:34:43,640 Uh, to develop here. So, uh, so we can assume that the corp has got its more or less final form only with Longchamp as editing video editing work, 312 00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:48,800 which must have occurred between 1339 and 1343. 313 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,650 As we know, it was mostly finished when Kumar Aziz, Master Kumar died. 314 00:34:55,620 --> 00:35:04,559 Of course, we don't know much how the corpus got edited again after luncheon, but there is, uh, a cheek by, uh, um, uh, the duckling bear found in it. 315 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:10,320 So it can have can have been edited again, more or less by the duckling. 316 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:18,270 But but I think, I think longevity lived it in a form that was preserved by later tradition, although I'm not absolutely sure. 317 00:35:22,410 --> 00:35:26,930 So that's about the the, uh, what I call community. 318 00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:32,210 Uh, and, sorry, 1984 at the. 319 00:35:32,850 --> 00:35:35,850 So that's the the the the, um. 320 00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:45,329 The story, the text that is witness to Turing changing version of the of the containing Dick so we can discuss it later. 321 00:35:45,330 --> 00:35:48,270 And I'm just showing that this, this, this little book. 322 00:35:51,140 --> 00:36:04,270 And uh, then so to to go on to go further in the story and in 1366, the then uh, 66 survey reveals a large quantity of DNA from Ensenada, 323 00:36:04,580 --> 00:36:12,000 including the, the comparison, until, as we have seen, the central contains a large part of the condoning cheek in a badly rewritten form. 324 00:36:12,020 --> 00:36:15,620 I mean, I'm not sure it was clear from my table of contents, 325 00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:24,530 but I think if we can see the the kind of stick as being that one, I mean, the short one, the range ending by one. 326 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:34,730 So it would not be an exaggeration to say that the composite until, uh, includes sort of maybe 40%, between 40 to 60% of it. 327 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:44,090 So, uh, I mean, and then it should be, uh, uh, it should be, um, checked in to what degree? 328 00:36:44,090 --> 00:36:51,050 It's, uh, rewritten or just taken a search. And plus, uh, we have a text in the community called the Young Yellow Goo. 329 00:36:53,290 --> 00:37:00,220 Uh, which is a witness to the fact that the king of them was regarded as a master of the community, 330 00:37:00,670 --> 00:37:03,940 although it is never said in his biographies that he received it. 331 00:37:04,270 --> 00:37:09,340 So that's another, uh, hint of the fact that he was a student of origin by maybe. 332 00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:18,190 Yeah. And also and Valentine found a text of his, uh, I mean, in the biographies of Gooden's disciples, 333 00:37:18,430 --> 00:37:21,819 there are many cases in which he seemed to have taught them the tuning text. 334 00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:26,740 That would be community. So it's interesting also because it means he really had received it. 335 00:37:27,010 --> 00:37:35,620 I mean, he would not have taught it without receiving it. So my question now, and that's nearly the the conclusion of this presentation, 336 00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:40,370 is would we regard that he didn't them as another editor of the community, 337 00:37:40,660 --> 00:37:47,500 nearly in the same way and to the same degree and in the same sense as we regard Longchamp as being one, 338 00:37:48,010 --> 00:37:51,210 uh, which is interesting because uh, and uh, 339 00:37:51,230 --> 00:38:01,120 Longchamp although the condo young Longchamp scandal is regarded as a counter in mind revelation and still I mean, 340 00:38:01,330 --> 00:38:07,990 we think of Longchamp as a writer, as an author, why do we don't think we don't regard them as such? 341 00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:15,580 And, uh, and the part of the genetic or historical aspect of the puzzle is, of course, connected to the French handling by issue, 342 00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:21,520 like whether it's in Gooding was or not a disciple of French anything, but whether it got or not from him. 343 00:38:21,940 --> 00:38:25,620 Attacks of the communistic and all the transmissions of the community. 344 00:38:26,090 --> 00:38:35,050 And that's the why this, this, uh, um, condoning take uh, um, not um, sorry, 1984 is so important. 345 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:49,200 So just to conclude, maybe because my original question was, uh, whether the, um, uh, the permanent section of the region would be considered as, 346 00:38:49,210 --> 00:38:59,080 uh, in, you know, as something that, uh, like, uh, like, uh, containing various, like, terms that are various states of just one text, in fact. 347 00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:11,770 So in fact, it does not, uh, work that well because so there is in that, uh, corpus, uh, the so-called, uh, the family justice community. 348 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,280 So of course, sections of Long Chain, buscando young Dick. 349 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,680 So these two are very homogeneous. Good, good dense person which pretty homogeneous. 350 00:39:20,980 --> 00:39:30,060 Good times. Caddo brown sugar rancher is completely different reengineering best it of a teacher uh which is it's interesting because this rich ending 351 00:39:30,070 --> 00:39:37,660 but I find so interesting can say one also found him so interesting that he had a young therapist completely lost at in particular. 352 00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:42,130 But this seems to be also pretty different from the, um. 353 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:48,040 Uh, the basic training kick. But this would require further research. 354 00:39:48,430 --> 00:39:52,030 Then journaling is often long selling, which is not unconnected. 355 00:39:52,510 --> 00:39:55,810 Permalink based doctrine is surely not unconnected. 356 00:39:56,260 --> 00:40:02,200 And later in more minor side cycles, from menudo, deportation to lengthening pool and scheduling. 357 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:09,210 But but these are very late things. So. 358 00:40:10,610 --> 00:40:14,050 Yes, this I said already. Yeah. 359 00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:21,570 For example, the engineering teacher is interesting because it's, uh, it's it claims to be young. 360 00:40:21,660 --> 00:40:26,310 He cannot take for example. So this would require for further discussions. 361 00:40:27,870 --> 00:40:35,429 So yeah, this I think I said most mostly internal link up guys also to be included in the in the issue, 362 00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:42,899 although it's not found in the same section of the link because it's uh, it does not contain it's not purely the option thing. 363 00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:50,740 It's, it's more it's one thing. Yeah. 364 00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:58,060 So while that's repeating things I've already said is just I think, you know, my point is pretty clear whether it's correct or not. 365 00:40:59,220 --> 00:41:03,460 So. Yeah, I think I'm done. 366 00:41:04,270 --> 00:41:07,690 Okay. I hope it was of some interest to you. 367 00:41:07,690 --> 00:41:15,849 And. And I hope it can at least start some avenues of research or projects for further research, 368 00:41:15,850 --> 00:41:21,410 whether what I've said is was correct or not, it's really up to further research as to who decides. 369 00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:28,510 Well, thank you, Stefan, for a very, very interesting, stimulating talk.