1 00:00:00,740 --> 00:00:10,610 Many people in this room already know about us because he is a member of our Research Fellows Group, The Training at War Program. 2 00:00:11,900 --> 00:00:14,360 He will speak on searching for flexible forces. 3 00:00:14,780 --> 00:00:25,070 The Lithuanian civil intelligence perspective and there is a number of interesting conversations trying to compare Lithuania historically, 4 00:00:25,730 --> 00:00:32,480 certainly through the Soviet era with today and what a small country is learning 5 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:37,460 from outside but also have internalised as they develop even here today. 6 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:42,080 His lecture this one in the course of two terms here. 7 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,930 But he has been a friend of the program, I'd say, before that. 8 00:00:45,950 --> 00:00:49,729 And there's a kind of loyalty or conferences. I never if it was great, 9 00:00:49,730 --> 00:00:56,450 I'd love to give you the platform to speak I'm sorry of the travel disruption of not removing the rule is but you will get high quality between stuff. 10 00:00:56,690 --> 00:00:58,100 Okay so thank you. 11 00:00:58,190 --> 00:01:06,589 It's a real privilege to be here and to deliver my paper and to share some my initial thoughts about some research projects which I'm doing right now. 12 00:01:06,590 --> 00:01:14,760 And this presentation is kind of part of my ongoing production fellowship Back Can Rufina and I am commissioned to write a book. 13 00:01:14,780 --> 00:01:20,280 I have one more year left about development and military thought since 1990. 14 00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:23,450 So what we did after regained our independence, 15 00:01:23,450 --> 00:01:31,939 after the collapse of the Soviet Union and basically what I'm interested in how we are a small country with a small armed forces, 16 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:37,380 6000 overall with all services included and reservists and regulars. 17 00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:45,799 What we how we're thinking about what does war, how we thinking how we have to fight wars, what what future conflicts will be, 18 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:52,670 how that thinking affects our military planning and military structure, training, equipment, procurement, etc. 19 00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:59,240 And basically, I'm looking at how much we are borrowing and avoiding copying Western ideas, 20 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,709 British, Scandinavians, ones, Americans, and how much we invest in our own. 21 00:02:03,710 --> 00:02:12,920 And I would have to say we almost 95% are copying and maybe 5% something we inventing or inventing from our historical past, 22 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:24,860 especially the special force area, because we have our kind of history of military resistance against Soviet Union in late forties, early fifties, 23 00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:28,729 and our Special Forces are something learning from that experience, 24 00:02:28,730 --> 00:02:35,299 and especially with tactical level decisions and sharing in line with the British and Latin American Special Forces, 25 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:39,880 because they know how to how to hide tracks in the snow, in the forest, etc. 26 00:02:39,910 --> 00:02:47,660 This kind of practical, practical things, which we were successful because almost ten years we were fighting back Soviet soldiers in our forests, 27 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:55,520 out in the mountains, deserts, wherever. So but basically when talking about regular armed forces, land forces, air or Navy, 28 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:02,510 we are just borrowing or copying or sometimes are just and leaving this restaurant, especially on British concepts. 29 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,220 And my background is political science and political science, 30 00:03:07,220 --> 00:03:11,750 but there's a requirement that you have to approach to your project with some kind of problem, 31 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,980 because at first I was just interesting and curious what we're thinking. 32 00:03:15,980 --> 00:03:21,260 But when my supervisors and say, What is your problem? I was to first think about it. 33 00:03:21,260 --> 00:03:25,579 And one of the angles which I decided to take it was a civil military relations perspective. 34 00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:35,120 Let's see. And how is reflection and consideration about concepts, about war is affecting our civil military relations. 35 00:03:35,630 --> 00:03:41,120 And when I talk about human relations, my final point is definition of power. 36 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:47,090 Because I see so much through relations as a relationship of power to see who will be in charge of what. 37 00:03:47,930 --> 00:03:53,360 And I have a problem with that because of power. As you know, it's I was at a war as it occurred, 38 00:03:53,360 --> 00:04:01,110 as democracy and freedom is a very the word concepts you there's so many definitions that you just me lost in all the definitions I 39 00:04:01,110 --> 00:04:08,749 never want to use the word truths or British mythologies definition like a man when he talks about two coexisting definitions of power, 40 00:04:08,750 --> 00:04:14,270 despotic infrastructure and despotic power is its power over society. 41 00:04:14,270 --> 00:04:20,900 Infrastructural power is truth aside. All basically say despotic power is ontological. 42 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:24,950 It's about institutions and infrastructural powers. 43 00:04:24,950 --> 00:04:32,360 It epistemological, it's about discourse, it's about socialisation of concepts, it's about controlling your behaviour. 44 00:04:32,870 --> 00:04:35,989 Even then you don't don't know that. I don't understand that. 45 00:04:35,990 --> 00:04:45,320 How is controlled propaganda for example. So and then I took this perspective and I looked in civil military relations, old writings. 46 00:04:45,650 --> 00:04:50,180 I see very clear picture. The mainstream tradition started with Huntington. 47 00:04:50,180 --> 00:04:53,990 The Alawites continue to go Moscow's bulk. 48 00:04:54,470 --> 00:04:59,840 Now fewer arms ship. They all talk about despotic power. 49 00:05:00,470 --> 00:05:04,100 How to do what? How to arrange institutional framework. 50 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:10,340 Legislative framework. Conceptual framework. To take away or not permit military to take power. 51 00:05:10,670 --> 00:05:17,570 Central power to govern. How to be the power or more, let's say more. 52 00:05:17,660 --> 00:05:21,319 Whereas with not only that, but still just keep away. 53 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:28,610 Military from the central power is despotic. But then I look in contemporary discussions also there would have discussions about 54 00:05:28,610 --> 00:05:33,889 militarisation of was now a very popular concept multi-month military and entertainment. 55 00:05:33,890 --> 00:05:43,580 And it's even simple question about discipline, how it spreads over how to say we are controlling someone without even his understanding of notice. 56 00:05:43,940 --> 00:05:48,380 And in this way, despotic power cannot explain because it's not institutions. 57 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:56,020 And you can measure if you take both political sense perspective. So it's not you can use statistics or interviews or institutional knowledge, 58 00:05:56,030 --> 00:06:05,660 is it not help total you need this infrastructural power across what you have to do content analysis, discursive analysis, conceptual history. 59 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:16,480 So when I look from this perspective, I see that in some ways you have to use this to different understandings of power. 60 00:06:16,490 --> 00:06:21,320 And I would say it's it's too overwhelming. Despotic power understanding can still move through literature. 61 00:06:21,650 --> 00:06:24,740 And we're not talking about the other part of the power and control. 62 00:06:25,130 --> 00:06:30,230 And why is this important coming back to say why power is important to say what? 63 00:06:30,230 --> 00:06:34,040 What is a tool of power and what does it feel to civil military relations? 64 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:40,099 And for me, I am almost, quote, Professor Strong, and I agree with you that for me, 65 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:44,000 so much relations, first of all, is about strategy and about fighting. 66 00:06:44,180 --> 00:06:50,959 And on the after that is about civilian control over military because as Peter Fuerte told, 67 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:57,010 is a dilemma or paradox of civil military relations at first will create armed forces to defend ourselves. 68 00:06:57,020 --> 00:07:06,320 And the second step is that we start in the framing of this institution, but the first step is to have a wild blue institution which could fight. 69 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,160 And later on we are trying to manage and find ways how to control. 70 00:07:10,940 --> 00:07:14,269 So now the question is and say how we fight, how we discuss it about. 71 00:07:14,270 --> 00:07:25,099 So for me, reflection about war, let's see how we fight all of these strategy strategies about I think to recognise, 72 00:07:25,100 --> 00:07:32,990 understand this complexity of nature of war differences between nature and character of war and different ways of war. 73 00:07:33,470 --> 00:07:39,580 So if you don't have this discussion, it's kind of like logic, my writing now. 74 00:07:39,630 --> 00:07:48,400 So if you don't have a discussion about this conceptual issues, we don't have a good understanding of strategy and this way you don't have a strategy. 75 00:07:48,650 --> 00:07:50,870 We have problems with our civil military relations. 76 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:58,940 So in use way reflection or discussions inside the military and between militant and civilians is kind of I 77 00:07:58,940 --> 00:08:07,370 would say why to if you want to have a good proper civil military relations and going through the thing in case. 78 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,570 Well so what is important when you're talking about despotic power is about institutions. 79 00:08:11,570 --> 00:08:17,720 So within the I would say like all central eastern European countries, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, 80 00:08:18,260 --> 00:08:25,860 we just copied very fast the Western institutions, legislative party government. 81 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:32,570 So let's see, all different agencies and our members in the European Union force us to adapt all this law package. 82 00:08:32,900 --> 00:08:38,630 And the thing is kind of a record breaker in the European Union because we just adapt everything where the European Union policies, 83 00:08:38,930 --> 00:08:46,820 especially Brussels and in many cases we just at that directive in our legislative system and only have to ask questions why, why? 84 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:52,070 Why didn't we discuss it more widely? Let's see, maybe we needed some adaptations were our so. 85 00:08:52,220 --> 00:08:55,820 So we are very fast to pick up all of this framework, all of this show. 86 00:08:55,970 --> 00:09:00,440 But the question is what about the contents they all it's going to political stance 87 00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:05,749 German is what about the quality of democracy quality of civil military relations. 88 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:14,059 So to say we have an institutional framework. It's not so it's a very good everything is done by British American example with British advisers. 89 00:09:14,060 --> 00:09:17,270 What worked I think ten years ago within a healthy, 90 00:09:17,270 --> 00:09:22,420 reciprocal institutional framework of civil military relations now goes for me is a question and why. 91 00:09:22,430 --> 00:09:29,690 The question is what we do inside of that framework I was discussing and how we discuss discussing what kind of quality discussions exist. 92 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,400 And then I see lots of lots of problems. 93 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:44,450 One of them just I I'll I'll be back 20 years back into my some memory so I will share some Mr. Wine things. 94 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,719 Years ago I was teenage boy in my native town. 95 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,430 Some were provincial Lithuania and I decided to improve my reading skills in English. 96 00:09:52,430 --> 00:10:00,140 And I just went to public library. I was searched, I was getting into history, I was looking a book about history in English, and I found it. 97 00:10:00,310 --> 00:10:06,940 It was just a part of the youth revolution. And I have to say it enchanted me and it still enchants me. 98 00:10:06,950 --> 00:10:11,200 So if you want to understand my worldview into academia, 99 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:17,230 into military thrillers that you just from Parker or if you going to political science Charles Tilly 100 00:10:17,530 --> 00:10:23,860 or Michael Mann that I see that military is not only destructive but also as a productive power, 101 00:10:24,190 --> 00:10:30,610 creative power. Let's say me as a child through surf wars made states takes me to war. 102 00:10:30,610 --> 00:10:36,250 And I think it is all critique. I, I think this argument still stands. 103 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,200 And sometimes we are talking too much about destructive power of states, especially Muslim countries, 104 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:49,060 not, not maybe what is happening outside the Western world with this drug for punches, glasses. 105 00:10:49,510 --> 00:10:58,299 I came to university and they found two things one positive and then very negative positive that I found that tradition, both good science, 106 00:10:58,300 --> 00:11:07,150 that which complements Parker's interpretations, that is as a central, still a disciplined and digger, at least in his earlier writings. 107 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:15,610 Michael Mann, Charles Doolittle, Scorpio, all of them they've discussed we're discussing about how mutually is important as a subject. 108 00:11:15,820 --> 00:11:24,820 If you want to understand how Western countries were formed and developed, the negative perspective is that this tradition, 109 00:11:25,180 --> 00:11:33,010 both historical and theological books, is very marginalised in mainstream political science and social science in general. 110 00:11:34,510 --> 00:11:44,530 It's kept on the margins in many cases is just there's a lot of atoms just to destroy it, just to abolish chairs and faculties, to criticise, 111 00:11:44,530 --> 00:11:51,040 not to publish some papers, etc. is maybe because Charles still to a couple of different parties where so prominent scholars, 112 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,320 they just manage to find the five. 113 00:11:53,560 --> 00:12:02,260 But then overall if you look, let's say major trends in social theories, that is liberalism, Marxism and constructivism. 114 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:08,110 And what unites all of them is, is a negative perspective towards war and military. 115 00:12:09,130 --> 00:12:16,600 So talking in practice, war studies is not practical, is not necessary discipline. 116 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:27,430 It's a waste of money. Maybe better spend money for anthropology or political economy or political physiology or security studies, but not war study. 117 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,819 So I know that this sounds a bit maybe few much black, not white or some in the middle. 118 00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:38,650 But I would say when I attending conferences, I knew the soldiers, knew the historians. 119 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:51,490 Sometimes I think they just don't understand how minor important they are for dominant scholars and trance in major western universities. 120 00:12:52,090 --> 00:12:58,870 The military studies is not popular. Why I'm talking about it is so then within a corporate, everything from western world. 121 00:12:58,870 --> 00:13:06,009 Then it became independent. Also the educational system, the framework, how we teach, what we teach, what kind of theories. 122 00:13:06,010 --> 00:13:11,740 So the same thing in case war studies is just almost nonexistent discipline. 123 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:19,870 So I spent 15 years now in university and from 24 as a living as independent. 124 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:25,089 And I haven't I took a college position so very high at my university, 125 00:13:25,090 --> 00:13:32,110 so I know more or less how social science exists, what kind of problems, bureaucratic or political is in within it. 126 00:13:32,110 --> 00:13:39,580 And you want to pursue this point, the social sciences and within and so so basically it's the domination is political economy, 127 00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:43,000 political sociology, strategic studies, security studies. 128 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:49,690 And because of members of the European Union, European studies, which again, basically it is public policy and political economy. 129 00:13:50,410 --> 00:13:57,310 So if you want to do something about something about military studies, that is a problem in Lithuania. 130 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:07,930 I was lucky because my supervisor in my for my undergrad uses Massachusetts and D was a dean of political philosophy, 131 00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:12,430 were Fania the respectable professor and he is a former Soviet Union officer. 132 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:20,530 So he just I don't know, maybe because of his military legacy, he understood maybe the need of some military studies. 133 00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:24,280 So he just was kind of shield for me, at least for some years. 134 00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:29,050 And they managed to fight back on my own, in my faculty, in university. 135 00:14:29,290 --> 00:14:37,329 But in all history that is. See, for the last 15 years, people who graduated from the scene in universities are trained. 136 00:14:37,330 --> 00:14:48,760 We don't have experts in military studies. So we then were talking about the reflection civilian side can provide only a few people in bureaucracy. 137 00:14:49,210 --> 00:14:59,230 Bureaucracy or in academia or in journalist era could comment about ongoing military missions and about some conceptual issues. 138 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:06,180 So basically I know that say when we finally decide to send soldiers somewhere outside Lithuania, 139 00:15:06,450 --> 00:15:09,710 there are two people who will always ask for command. 140 00:15:10,290 --> 00:15:17,100 I they're asking me because I almost don't own the one who is doing proper pure military studies. 141 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:24,820 And my colleague and a journalist, that's all two people who could comment something about military, 142 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,860 who think the problem is in this case, I forced to be expert in all issues. 143 00:15:28,980 --> 00:15:36,120 So in someone I was discussing about Syria right now, I was discussing Central African Republic because we're sending soldiers. 144 00:15:36,260 --> 00:15:39,030 So in spring blast, I was talking about Somalia. 145 00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:45,899 So everybody will thing is going to have to have some comments and now it's very shallow and I don't like that. 146 00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:51,540 But. And but that is the situation. So to say. I'm talking about reflection from civilian side. 147 00:15:51,750 --> 00:15:57,090 We don't have a lot of people to provide. And the problem is one young country. 148 00:15:57,090 --> 00:15:58,559 So we have some experts. 149 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:07,260 But they went the civil service, the minister of Defence Intelligence Services, and they can write, they can come and they became bureaucrats. 150 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,550 That's all. And they just decided to be bureaucrats. They made a good career. 151 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:17,670 Some of them were the ambassadors, etc., but like them authorising and they forgot the skills of research. 152 00:16:18,270 --> 00:16:28,080 Another is our particular geopolitical situation because of Russia and this will cyber and energy sector control. 153 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:37,200 We are investing a lot of intellectual power into questions of energy security and cybersecurity, which has among the smaller elements. 154 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:46,680 When you talk about proper military discussion, so to say, my colleagues or my age now writing more about energy security and cybersecurity. 155 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,840 That and that is our understanding. Security is our military is very small part of all that. 156 00:16:54,240 --> 00:17:02,100 When we move from civilian side into military side, the picture is maybe even more gloomy, and that is the sea. 157 00:17:02,610 --> 00:17:06,930 In this case, I would be kind of brutal, but frank about the fainting case. 158 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,450 So we have, again, this additional framework. It seems quite okay. 159 00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:19,140 We have six journalists, newspapers, which is written by people working in a system of defence for let's say, 160 00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:28,140 but basically based basically by civilians, not military officers, military citizens, but still and they are published by weekly. 161 00:17:28,290 --> 00:17:32,250 What really bothers me see there is some literature and there is some reflection. 162 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:39,750 And I go deeper in this writings and it's easy to do for me all along the research because during this 24 years, 163 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:45,780 the size of publication is still manageable to read it. Every single justice canon, it's not so much. 164 00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:49,710 And so what topics are dominant? 165 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:53,340 History, German history and experience? 166 00:17:53,340 --> 00:18:03,090 The Second World War. Not First World War, not Soviet baby because of our Soviet legacy, but Germans and Second World War fighting our insurgency, 167 00:18:03,090 --> 00:18:08,610 fighting resistance, fighting against Soviets, as is mentioned, late forties, early fifties. 168 00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:17,489 Then there is a lot of discussions about particular weapons systems, about all of the thing and very all of the historical past, 169 00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:27,290 because now within in 15, 15, 15, 16 century was a big country and cell from Eastern Europe and say we were really good in fighting. 170 00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:32,580 We were fighting against Germany, against the Russians, against with against against Tatars. 171 00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:37,530 And I would say 75% were tourists, 25% were were defeated. 172 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,149 But so and that is very important for our identity is ethnicity. 173 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:49,200 So our military, even inside the military, they're spending a lot of time and money just to discuss about this far, 174 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,419 far away past times and maybe some legacy for contemporary needs. 175 00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:58,950 But I would say sometimes it's kind of artificial, but that is so. 176 00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:09,680 Well, but what am I looking say for articles about contemporary missions living and then of the same needs or some reflections about new concept like, 177 00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:16,320 I don't know, first generation warfare coin, new war debate, all its base operations. 178 00:19:16,590 --> 00:19:27,270 I found mine. Maybe I found ten articles in in the timeframe of 24 years about all of this. 179 00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:37,440 Subjects in military journals for me is a very clear indicator of level, of reflection, 180 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:45,420 of always discussions are actually for me is an indicator that we not are discussing at all. 181 00:19:45,420 --> 00:19:54,120 I would say this when we have our own peer field within and there was more discussions about mission of Afghanistan, about priorities. 182 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:59,850 But you know, that is more, I would say. Mm. A solid year but not let's say, let's say a. 183 00:19:59,940 --> 00:20:05,790 What does Putin what is the transition mission? What we're doing here is he's again brought a frame of coin. 184 00:20:05,970 --> 00:20:09,270 What is happening in that era is see what is within an input. 185 00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:18,390 There was kind of minor discussions about that. Moreover, we were before Afghanistan, we were in Iraq, we were in Bosnia and Kosovo. 186 00:20:18,690 --> 00:20:24,599 We don't have not only official histories, but we don't have even a booklet about each of these missions. 187 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:30,419 So if I want to know to find out and see what the fans were doing in Bosnia and Kosovo and to see what they learned, 188 00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:36,980 what lessons learned for all the issues, operation and tactical, even political, international cooperation. 189 00:20:36,990 --> 00:20:41,390 And no, I don't have any with the shovel that I know, the officers with Serbs. 190 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,630 I can't I mean, go and interview them, but I see. 191 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:48,450 But if I want to do something for my students, for example, there is nothing. 192 00:20:49,050 --> 00:20:53,820 We don't have a tradition of our police official used to write them in military. 193 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,849 Well, it's it's it's a good a bad thing to tell this official history is maybe another question. 194 00:20:59,850 --> 00:21:06,420 But let's see what we have a tradition to put something on the paper for future generations to know what is it, 195 00:21:06,450 --> 00:21:10,259 what we did, what was good, what was wrong, and the same now as Afghanistan. 196 00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:14,760 We came back from Afghanistan. 80 years big operation. 197 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,960 The biggest operation for the Finnish, I think for the foreseeable future will be the biggest. 198 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:26,250 There is not any discussions that said to start writing something about semi-official about what we learned in that. 199 00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:31,990 So there is a problems in this level. I took another step. 200 00:21:32,010 --> 00:21:38,250 I go to official documents and special doctrinal level and to look and say, look for reflection in this area. 201 00:21:38,550 --> 00:21:42,930 So we have our first doctrine in 2010, military doctrine. 202 00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:46,739 Then we have a military doctrine operations in 2011. 203 00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:55,800 And last year we publish a military training doctrine. Well, the fact that we have a doctrine is kind of step forward. 204 00:21:56,610 --> 00:22:00,819 Now, I don't know when I will come back to within after staying here. 205 00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:03,260 And also what I will do are lots of interviews. 206 00:22:03,260 --> 00:22:11,639 So the first question will be I will ask people why we have this doctrine for this particular day is it was because of neither requirement, 207 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,540 because, you know, 208 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:22,409 we need a member and we must have checklist of some all these documents like strategies, field manuals, doctrines, etc., always some kind of inside. 209 00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:29,129 Right. But from that, what I see in the wider discussions or it's nothing is because it never exists. 210 00:22:29,130 --> 00:22:35,310 I think it's wasn't some drive from junior officers to do something to to put something in the doctrine. 211 00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:39,630 When they read doctrines, they are heavily borrowed from British ones. 212 00:22:40,050 --> 00:22:46,440 Our military doctrine 2010 is a crude translation of British military doctrine. 213 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,660 28th First Edition. The structure of the text is the same. 214 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:59,669 The concepts are the same. The two main concepts which are still so important for British and for opinions, mission, 215 00:22:59,670 --> 00:23:09,809 command and manoeuvres approach that is essence of doctrine in thing and what they read, at least in official documents in Britain. 216 00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:15,750 Also, the question is maybe Britain is discussing more inside said what does it mean is proper, 217 00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:20,280 not proper and within again I then I will start to look at name is approach. 218 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:27,359 What is it? Did we discuss something in our papers, articles, debates? 219 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:34,680 Even inside the Parliament? When you have oversight committees which have to permit, publishes, document, nothing. 220 00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:40,709 So I do not know actually what we think. 221 00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:46,620 What is manoeuvres and brush opinions except what is written in doctrine and the same as mission command. 222 00:23:46,890 --> 00:23:51,060 I have to go deeper. I have to talk with officers who wrote his doctrines. 223 00:23:51,330 --> 00:23:54,390 I have to go maybe to look into the few manuals and training programs. 224 00:23:54,660 --> 00:24:04,350 But right now I would say that we wrote these things without any public discussion before and after that there was no reaction. 225 00:24:04,650 --> 00:24:11,639 And actually Michael to I am wrote and not non of paper about the doctrine even to say this is 226 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,190 already for years I have published but probably with my research will fix at least this era. 227 00:24:18,510 --> 00:24:30,370 And so there is again lack of reflection another indicator even if there are some articles who authors are, for me that's even a reading. 228 00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:40,200 The American Parliament There's Military Review. John Porter Quarterly Journal of American British Army Review on RC Journal was there's 229 00:24:41,310 --> 00:24:46,160 experts arriving civil and also lots of officers acting officers of the and commenting 230 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:51,269 especially on doctrinal operational level questions so in living in case why is even 231 00:24:51,270 --> 00:24:59,010 articles about military issues is only a small number of officers who are writing so. 232 00:25:00,170 --> 00:25:07,370 So you've been sending a lot of officers to Tavis, Tanya, which is both a defence colleges. 233 00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:11,299 We see lots of this. Tanya also is going to be an officer. 234 00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:18,110 So they have is high command courses basically for major, sometimes even colonels. 235 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:27,650 And this is how both Defence and Security Review Journal, I check it also and there is I think 14 volumes now of them, 236 00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:35,870 only 12 publications by Lithuanians from these publications, only three are by officers. 237 00:25:37,310 --> 00:25:40,040 Even as the officers who are sent to this college, 238 00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:46,010 they're not writing the papers and published license and science published even more than the senior officers. 239 00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:49,819 Now, the question is why want to do that? Let's say, what is the reason why? 240 00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:57,110 Answer is the two answers is one is solidly this year, especially about secrecy. 241 00:25:58,070 --> 00:26:05,059 And we have to kept everything tight, not to provide, not to give nothing for Russians to read what we think about war, 242 00:26:05,060 --> 00:26:11,959 how we preparing about war, etc. But I it but that is when talking about free democratic country and I said sovereignty. 243 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:17,030 Say so why British are not afraid? What the Americans are not afraid and they say kind of open we are discussing. 244 00:26:17,030 --> 00:26:22,490 Of course there is some secret issues, but they say discussions about nature war is kind of open. 245 00:26:22,850 --> 00:26:26,389 So let's say why don't we have in the scene and why you can't permit officers to do that? 246 00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:29,410 And again, is someone asking questions? 247 00:26:29,420 --> 00:26:35,360 I will have to clarify. I will come back with my hypothesis is the secrecy of this, the Russian culture. 248 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,650 And it's not only military. If you go to foreign policy or intelligence service. 249 00:26:39,950 --> 00:26:43,279 Oh, we're our agency. It is a kind of secrecy. 250 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:50,180 Are afraid of conspiracy just to keep tight not provide information is very much alive and it's very Russian actually. 251 00:26:52,190 --> 00:26:55,970 But it's an obstacle, let's say, to have a proper, maybe wider discussion. 252 00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:59,420 Another one is more joyful. 253 00:26:59,420 --> 00:27:05,569 I would say it's concerns our understandable history that Soviet Union collapsed. 254 00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:11,900 We brought back our historical tradition from interwar period, which was rank in tradition. 255 00:27:12,770 --> 00:27:18,440 Fragments of foreign policy that mirrors our overall framework of history was the history of war and diplomacy. 256 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:29,210 So I say and that that and the health of how to say to keep alive our understanding of the Athenians always was a nation of warriors. 257 00:27:30,350 --> 00:27:34,310 You're all before who were victorious or heroically defeated. 258 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,780 But no one. No, I bad boys and the other guys never. 259 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:47,750 And so it is. And that is sometimes I talk with some of those movements, said why we need always discussions about what is in our blood. 260 00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:51,380 We know how to fight because look at our history. 261 00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:59,510 Our history is war. So the thing is, genetically and mentally just war is imprinted in our blood. 262 00:27:59,510 --> 00:28:03,170 So to say we don't need to read about war, we don't need to discuss about war. 263 00:28:03,770 --> 00:28:11,210 That is a question of culture. And again, why the discussion about this understandable history instead of inside and into military. 264 00:28:11,570 --> 00:28:19,060 But that is also the era which I will probe more, but that's where I get some answers about my research. 265 00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:25,250 So overall, I would have to say, so to say in military we are doing well, 266 00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:33,110 our military is serving and these fighting and participating missions casualties are minimal. 267 00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:35,899 So maybe we are good soldiers or maybe we just are lucky. 268 00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:47,120 We've got the good regions to take care of this like in Afghanistan, which has less insurgency, less critical situations, etc., maybe. 269 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:56,360 Well, Americans and British are very good. How to say mentors have been taking care of a lot of things and we don't need to invest in some issues. 270 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:08,470 But for me to say just to copy and emulate or even sometimes just translate them technically British doctrines, 271 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,690 documents or having discussions, that is a sign of weakness. 272 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:18,950 So we need more improvement in wisdom because we don't know to see if something is appropriate for British, 273 00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:25,729 maybe is not appropriate for Lithuania because different region, different culture, different traditions and say, did we ask out this question? 274 00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:31,580 Did we try to adapt that to our needs? Or we just use technical translation and adaptation in this framework? 275 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,400 I do not know because I don't see as a discussion. Discussion probably happens inside the military. 276 00:29:37,490 --> 00:29:44,660 Fine, but also discussion must be outside the military and more open debates and all this kind of sounds kind of idealistic. 277 00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:48,880 But I say the United States and Britain, well, you have your own problems. 278 00:29:48,890 --> 00:29:54,530 And I guess you know that politicians are not always following the advice given by military or civilian experts. 279 00:29:55,010 --> 00:29:58,069 But overall, you have this tradition. You have thinktanks. 280 00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:59,570 You have journals. You have. 281 00:29:59,810 --> 00:30:07,760 Scholars and experts who are meeting like here, listening, discussing and trying to decide what does what is better, what is not. 282 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:17,750 But but in Finland, we don't have a universal national framework. Even Estonia managed to manage to have a think tank for defence issues. 283 00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:26,450 Small country in Lithuania we're not having that and we're not even discussing to have something of an inside neutral academy outside, wherever. 284 00:30:26,780 --> 00:30:31,790 So the question for me is, so we don't have as a reflection and then we don't have as a reflection, 285 00:30:31,850 --> 00:30:35,320 I see the problems to meet with relations and the practical issues. 286 00:30:35,570 --> 00:30:41,210 Very simple. So we sent our soldiers last spring into Somalia. 287 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:49,670 It was a Atalanta mission. Now we're sending with transport plane and units to Central African and African Republic. 288 00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:55,610 It was just decided somewhere outside of Athena. Then is our request came. 289 00:30:55,770 --> 00:31:02,780 Minister of Defence decided talked to his government presence to get permission from Parliament and everything was done in one weekend. 290 00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:06,650 Decision make no discussion. Is it necessary? 291 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,759 Not necessary. Is it proper units? Maybe other units is maybe better to send it. 292 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,760 So let's say that all discussion with will be happening here. 293 00:31:13,770 --> 00:31:18,550 And any more problem? Bigger maybe or more. All the rest of country. 294 00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:25,549 We don't have it. We just assume that's it. I would say public societies are just cut off is only decision between government and armed 295 00:31:25,550 --> 00:31:30,379 forces to do something and society's not participating because we don't have experts. 296 00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:37,850 But even we even these who are interested in a little bit, not invited on, not to see given permission to participate. 297 00:31:38,570 --> 00:31:42,880 So and even the say inside the military. Well, again, they made a decision, but I don't see it. 298 00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:50,900 I say even they came back from Somalia on we have some couple of officers to Mali for in structural drop we don't have this 299 00:31:51,010 --> 00:31:58,639 attribute what I did in Somalia said what lesson I learned as an officer ceremonies say was international in international steps. 300 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:10,310 And we don't have even this kind of journal article for cadets academy for civilian students just really even this is not academic code very deeply, 301 00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:13,670 but even that is not existent yet. 302 00:32:15,260 --> 00:32:23,270 It's changing. And I hope it will change because for the last year, two authors has published their memoir about their service in Iraq, 303 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:30,079 which was How to see or get a very big critique from Minister of Defence. 304 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,010 And there was a lot of attempts not to permit publication. 305 00:32:35,090 --> 00:32:43,340 And this Saturday it will be official presentation of book published about the history of our Special Forces, 306 00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:46,190 written by my colleague, that journalist that it would be. 307 00:32:46,190 --> 00:32:49,940 First, I don't know how to look because special forces, you know, it's like lots of secrecy. 308 00:32:49,950 --> 00:32:52,339 So I don't know what it would be the content of the book, 309 00:32:52,340 --> 00:33:01,970 but that at least is attempts to do something with contemporary issues and that is a bit changing, but it's only one or two years trends. 310 00:33:02,090 --> 00:33:08,750 So let's say for the last 20 to 24 years we have a problem is the reflection so so 311 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,510 summarising probably I would stand to stop that up for me maybe get your reflection. 312 00:33:14,510 --> 00:33:17,690 So when I look into civil relations so I see the problem. 313 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:22,159 So if you want to talk about proper constructive settlement relations, 314 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,120 it's not only institutional framework but also the content and quality of that content. 315 00:33:26,330 --> 00:33:32,960 If you want us, you have our armed forces. You want to use it for some political reasons. 316 00:33:33,530 --> 00:33:37,100 How you use it, why therefore? 317 00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:41,390 So that is probably where is all this discussion of of strategies happening? 318 00:33:41,930 --> 00:33:49,940 We don't have this intellectual, I would say, tradition from civil and military side, and it's not encouraged to exist. 319 00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:53,840 All this is still is not encouraged. So I say we don't have a reflection. 320 00:33:54,230 --> 00:34:01,880 And I, I think the worst case what may happen, we, we one day when we send soldiers somewhere and meet some tragic who happen and then 321 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,230 then with the strategy of struggle thing that people will start asking questions, 322 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,920 why we're there, why these soldiers, why these units, 323 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:17,809 why we will fight particular this way and the answers from demand because there was non good good open 324 00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:23,240 discussion even the sea leading some secret stuff inside the military to discuss and to prepare planning. 325 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:31,880 But this that tradition is not still existing, so to say we are very good in copying institutional framework from Western countries. 326 00:34:32,090 --> 00:34:41,810 We got to, I would say, kind of in bad shape, copying this tradition of discussion and reflection which exists in the same countries, 327 00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:46,700 which provides us an institutional framework. So overall, I would say the same thing. 328 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:54,770 It's not if, let's say strategies to let's say to understand, recognise the complexity of war. 329 00:34:55,340 --> 00:34:59,340 Nature of war policy is not on the civilian side is which lacks. 330 00:34:59,750 --> 00:35:03,560 As I would say, to discuss, but even more military side. 331 00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:12,229 So from my perspective, from what I see lacks was capacity and is not encouraged to invest, to enlarge his capacity. 332 00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:15,280 To think through what? Why you do that? 333 00:35:15,290 --> 00:35:18,559 Let's see. What is your business? Here it is if you win a war. 334 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,299 So what is worries for you to see how you prepare to fight this existential? 335 00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:26,830 I would say philosophical questions are not very much ask, you know, 336 00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:33,739 an armed forces and that is for me at least is a problem with which problem which is not containable inside the military, 337 00:35:33,740 --> 00:35:36,860 but it has impact outside the military, I would say. 338 00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:46,850 So that is overall my presentation kind of sober, kinda sad, but I would say frank and sometimes we have to be frank and direct to the point. 339 00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:49,300 Well, thank you much indeed.