Big welcome. Thank you all very much for coming. I think I've just heard that this is actually the first lecture.
First talk has been given in this brand new theatre, which was opened yesterday by the Duchess of Kent.
So, Eve, you are an honoured first timer, which is great.
It gives me, I should say, I'm Hugo Slim from the Centre of Ethics, Law and Armed Conflict at Oxford.
It gives me really great pleasure to welcome the ICRC to Oxford and particularly the Director General Eve D'accord to Oxford.
Oxford has a long relationship with war and a long relationship with studying
war and a long relationship with engaging with the humanitarian aspects of war.
Going right back to the Middle Ages with the early professor of law, Albert Ecco Gentil,
and coming up to date, more recently with someone sitting in the front row here,
Sir Adam Roberts, who has worked so much over his career alongside the ICRC and in producing important works on the laws of war and other things.
So it's a great pleasure to be continuing that tradition by having you here today.
Eve, thank you very much. And thinking of current things we're doing here at Oxford as well.
Obviously, the ICRC agenda of the laws of war, humanitarian action in war,
state and individual responsibility in war is a huge part of our agenda at Elac in terms of ethics, law and armed conflict.
But increasingly, as we think of ourselves, not Pembroke College and in the home of the New Centre for Human Rights for future generations,
there is also no doubt that violence, whether it be.
So of endemic violence that we're seeing on the rise in large parts of the world, in Mexico, where Eve has just returned from, in Central America,
or whether it be non-international armed conflict or international armed conflict,
the rights of people in future generations will determine on how that violence is played out.
So I think violence and war of all kinds will continue to be a very important agenda for the Martin Program on Human Rights and future generations.
So even more important that you're here to help us launch that that centre's new role here at Pembroke and Eve himself.
Just a couple of things for you to know about Eve.
I was invited to a dinner in the old town of Geneva in about the year 2000 by a lovely, very distinguished member of ICRC who said to me, Hugo,
I want you to come to Geneva and me to come and have dinner with someone who I
think is going to be rather important in the ICRC and in the future of the ICRC.
So I turned up at the famous little restaurant in the old town of Geneva called the Carnivore Vegetarianism for ICRC.
And we met and I met for the first time, Eve.
And quite correctly, this lady Marian was right.
Eve has been an extremely important part of the ICRC in the last ten years and is now leading it with President Peter Maher and the new president.
And I think if I was to describe Eve's contributions, they find that in a general term he is a moderniser in the best sense,
and he's been part of the determination and the real delivery of producing a modern ICRC for today's world.
And that means, as I understand it,
as I listen to Eve and as I watched the ICRC today and as I watch them treat or I'm going to because Eve says I've got to tweet now.
That really means adapting. ICRC sees core values, its core concerns around the changes in the modern world.
And that's how I understand what Eve's great contribution is being to the ICRC to make it
as relevant in the modern world and to make it represent the realities of the modern world.
And the huge changes you've made in staffing and organising organisational culture is a part of that.
So Eve, it's a great pleasure to have you here. And also you should usefully know that in the audience we have a new Oxford University Society,
which is the Oxford University Red Cross Society, which we have formed over the last year or so.
So the university also now has its own Red Cross society.
One of their immediate aims apart to be kept informed on humanitarian matters internationally is to train as many students as possible in first aid,
so that actually the Oxford University Red Cross Society can be the primary provider of first aid
services to Oxford University events ranging from conferences to balls to sports events or whatever.
So that's another thing that people like Daniel and others here are trying to achieve at the moment.
But it's a great pleasure to have you with us. Eve is going to talk for about 30 minutes, maybe 35 minutes.
And then he wants to, in his words, engage.
So I suggest we then have a very good session for about 45 minutes, maybe more, where you ask questions.
He's going to lead off with his thoughts on the implications of the Arab Spring.
And then he's very keen to talk to you all about what ICRC is doing in Syria,
what the challenges are, and really what's happening operationally for them.
So, Eve, big welcome to Oxford. Thank you. Good afternoon to all of you.
Do you hear me? Well, that's fine. I just wanted to know if you need to make it.
He's, um. The first speaker of the. The room is used to have anybody speaking ethics.
I'm very. It's okay. Now this is your time to decide, because otherwise I can take my.
Okay. Let's just 5 minutes, and then if you don't hear me, make me a signal.
I'll try to find a mate. I think it's important that we we have the chance to.
To hear each other. Ugo, thanks very much for your call.
You're welcome.
I'm very pleased to be here and I think I really see this moment also not only of giving maybe some of the thinking of the ICAC right now,
but also having your your point, your view, I think.
Why? Because we are in a time where we have a had a lot of questions.
We don't have all the answer really. It's a time where as an organisation we know exactly where we want to go, one to be the way to go.
We need to be adaptable. Unpredictability is extremely high for us to a lot of issues.
Syria is a good example, but I can talk a lot about a lot of other country where it is right.
Not very difficult to be able to act, to understand and to be.
I think you use the key word relevant and what has changed over the last ten years at least that's
our perception is we measure us would tell us that we are relevant or not and who has an influence.
I would say ten years ago, if you would design our our stakeholders,
you would say clearly governance would be absolutely central and possibly armed forces.
Not said non-state armed groups would be central to their perceptions of our relevance or not.
They are still central today. But what has changed over the last few years is that people affected,
the famous people affected have become much more important to our own relevance that they were ten years ago,
and they are much more challenging for us than they were ten years ago.
You would say as a humanitarian, you should always say, or for the people that you serve, they should be at the centre of the response.
But the reality is that yes, they are the centre, but in fact they don't influence that much.
Our response but it has changed over the last few years and I would like to come
back to that because that's one of the big change we have been confronted with.
I was proposed by you to talk a little bit about the Arab Spring and the humanitarian challenge linked with it.
Why? Because I think it's critical to understand what are we talking about, the Arab Spring.
Is there this common notion? I will tell you, I don't like so much emotion, but it's fine.
I would like to unpack it a little bit and try then to understand one or two or three trends that we can see in the linked with the Arab Spring.
I will tell you that it won't stop at the Middle East. It's going further.
And I would also leave you then maybe tell you what it means then for you meant an organisation like the ICRC.
I won't speak specifically about context.
I will of course name context, but then afterwards I'm very happy to take questions specifically on Syria or Mali or Afghanistan or anything else.
I'll be happy to discuss that with you. So if we start with thinking about the the Arab Spring,
maybe the first thing I need to tell you and you know that the perspective of the
ICRC of the International Committee of the Red Cross is only one perspective.
You might have a lot of different perspectives.
So take it as one might not have the perfect just perspective, and our perspective is linked with one another.
We are an organisation who continue to be willing to be close to what is happening.
So we are not outsource our resolve to our response to local partner.
It's important I am saying that because this is a big trend and you make an international arena I don't think is right or wrong,
but our view is we want to be able to maintain what I would call a direct access in the direct action.
We do that, of course, sometimes in partnership with it's practical for us to be close to where it's happening.
So it needs news today in Syria. We have people in Damascus, property in Homs, in Aleppo, and it's complicated.
We don't access every place, but we have the right and I think I know us, of course,
to be able to understand sometimes a little bit more the dynamic not only of the people affected,
but also of the people who are trying to controlling them. Right. And all the parts of the conflict, I really resist that.
So when I'm reading some of the channel and some other perception and view is really based on what we understand from what is happening at the ground.
Not sure we are very good at sending what may be the big picture, but at the ground is what we are providing you.
And I'll come back about the notion of direct actions and being able to be close to people, because I think it's a very important element.
So if we talk about the Arab Spring so far, just two things.
I am happy about this notion as we know it. This notion now, by the way, is taking away.
But they just try to linger on two things. One, the notion of stream I think there was no discussion about and then the week or whatever.
I think that's not the point. I think the point for me is and I think we should agree with that.
Most likely, we're confronted with a series of events.
You know, can we put together that will last? I think we should agree that most likely we are confronted with a kind of a revolution,
and that major revolution takes years, if not decades, and will take a lot of different form depending on the context.
That's why I'm not going back on that. But we need to be ready for a long term change, turmoil, tensions.
And then again, with the Arab world, it will be this happening in the Arab world first.
But I'm of the opinion that it will be wrong just to look at the Arab world.
It has already affected more than the Arab world.
I don't know where you put Iran, but we can discuss if an Iranian 2009 was not already a signal of some of the change.
You have to look at Central Asia, no doubt. You have to look already in Africa, Mali and other places.
And some of the elements might affect one day Europe.
Not for us, even at the same time, but they are issues. I'll come back on that, which I think.
So it is lasting. It will continue with us for a long time.
And we as a collective, not only ICC, we need to really understand what is at stake.
And what I am talking about when we talk about the Arab Spring in December, it's important.
And too, it's not just Middle East. Middle East is at the centre of the of this question, but you cannot just be that.
So if we if we just slightly unpacked it, if you allow me and then I'll try to to see what are some of the common trends.
The first element which which strikes me is, of course, it's important to have a contextual understanding.
So what's happening right now in Tunisia has little to do with what is happening in man.
We have different dynamic at stake without mentioning Libya, Egypt, Syria.
I mean, we see different element and it's extremely important and we understand that there are different element.
And I think one of the element is also the context.
If I look at Libya, for example, today, the dynamic of Libya,
the clamp down on the hallmarks of Libya is shaping the outcome, as you would have imagined, for a different type of dynamic.
So in one hand, you would have some country like Egypt or Tunisia,
which are fighting in a way to building or rebuilding political institution, finding the balance between army, justice,
democracy just ended with economic development, whereas the other country,
which I'm just in a way going through or then trying to recover from almost a billion internal armed conflict, almost a civil war.
So, I mean, you have different situation. Just frame it like that.
I think it's useful. But now, of course, what is interesting is to look at what are the trends and they are some similarities and some trends.
And I would like to to come back on that because I think it will help us also to try to understand what are we facing and of course,
maybe to apply some of the trends and to other countries of the world.
And see, I don't know if we can make some link, but see, maybe, maybe other places, maybe other Arab will be affected by that.
The first one, which strike us, if you look at some of the country,
is how much and in all the country, the regime was or is removed from it from its own people.
So we are in a situation when in a way for different reasons, you have a regime far perceived so far from the people,
from the people, and at a time also where the regime was also perceived as a period of transition,
very strong, regime removed, and then challenge in terms of legitimacy because the onset of transition wanted
to transfer the transfer of power to the son or to the daughters or whatever.
Interesting. Just as a first reflections,
we have a power in this country which is removed from from the people who perceive so and in a situation of slight weakness.
Okay. That's one let's put it aside. I think more interestingly for us is a kind of a different dynamic.
One is you have clearly a situation where young people and I'm careful what we mean by young people, let's say under 50.
So young people really be educated but also be in a situation where suddenly and it's not new,
having clearly in their area no real future in terms of job being able at the same time
to compare what's happening in other part of the world to finance all the places.
So there is something about that really. And you have, of course,
a population and I will link it that when that's where they have the ability that there is no real options and future in their country.
Right. You can even link it. You can Tunisia and Egypt possibly.
Also the fact that. Immigration is thought to be even more difficult.
So the options for young people in that country or in the region are narrow, very thin.
And of course, at the same time, there is not really any response from the government for good reason.
So I think you can really see a constraint on that. But I will link it immediately with the famous notions of of new media.
And, you know, what I find interesting is not so much that we have new media, tweeters, whatever.
I think that's interesting. That's one much more interesting.
And if there's one thing I would learn from what happened in Tunisia, in Egypt slightly differently in Libya,
is we are confronted with an uprising in Syria without Egypt, without a leader.
You don't have this. And then some Mandela, Egyptian or Tunisian, says, you know, this is the moment now.
We've fought together for 30 years. Let's do it now, you know.
So don't you really have a no leader? Of course.
Then after some forces are then taking over in a way at the beginning of the uprising is really about people,
young people connecting, using a new media.
I'm not of the opinion of the new media where the decisive factors that are an important factor of another assignment.
But clearly what is interesting is you have individual willing in a way to play their role, connecting them among themselves.
And last but not least, I think the fear factors to change means that young people will feel that in their balance it's useful,
it's okay to connect, to go, to say for, you know, more space, more freedom, more job versus being afraid of the government and the repression.
So I think there is something around that which is interesting. So we need to capture that because just interesting, you know,
if I look at around I was recently in to country and I don't want to not specifically look at the country
but you can see clearly some of these elements which clearly camouflage if you go in Central Asia,
you can have a different opinion,
but you can look at some countries you with absolutely see young people rather educated a bit of distance with the governments, you know,
where it's got to be more difficult in terms of how much you share the youth space in the economy, the ability to connect, also Internet.
I mean, you can look into that. You can look totally different in India.
And I'm not saying India will have an Arab Spring, but India, what happens, for example, in Delhi link with the Gangrape.
The issue was not things that wasn't just about the rape and the gang rape.
It sure that people took before, went on in the streets, demonstrated absolutely without even thinking.
And I think this is also at a country that has an enormous impact.
How would you look at that, by the way, if I look at Europe,
if I if I look at some of the of the things which happened in 2005 in France or in 2011 in this country,
you can see that the fact that still so young people connect to be able to take the street to go on without, you know, chain of command and we know.
So I think there is something around that which is changing a bit, the dynamic in which governments are looking at their people.
So let's agree, we have a complex dynamic which is in a way different country by country,
and then maybe the difference by country will shape the outcome.
But also, let's agree that they are, I think, some trends which I think are important to to look into that.
Now, if I if I try to focus on the United Challenge for the people first and then I will look at what are the challenge for us as an organisation.
I think what's what is very worrying right now and much more worrying today than two years ago.
I think two years ago a lot of people weren't aware.
In fact, they were very enthusiastic about, wow, it's something positive.
It's about freedom because we want to look like our own grids of we don't really think, oh, this is great, these people are now fighting for freedom.
I think we totally underestimated the fact that a lot of issues where economically really not everything but there was an issue about the economy,
about jobs, about important. I mean, in Egypt, one of the key factors to be underestimated was the price of the bread going up in Tunisia.
Very much the same basic commodity is going up and it is suddenly maybe the drop, which is too much.
You know, it's not the only one, but it's an important fact. What is worrying is two years dangerous.
To date, nothing has been solved in pure economic terms for the people in all this country Egypt, Tunisia, Libya.
I think now without even mentioning Syria, the economy, the situation, not only even the violence, the economic situation has got much more worst.
And so the very same people in, we thought, went to the streets.
They found themselves with a situation which had become worse and typically a good example.
You have a lot of discussions about the Constitution, and rightly so, about the role and responsibility of each other.
Still, I mean, you have today much more people who have just get under the level of poverty.
So it won't just go away, I think.
And so first, 11 to 9 times what you met and challenge today you have a much larger part of the population which found today the situation is worst,
especially in economic terms. So if there is one element I would like to emphasise is really the economic factors, which is a critical one.
Pretty good for them.
And please, I think you know that if you suddenly see that the price of the food and for the really basic commodities have gone up in 2008.
Not all and most of them. And what is new is that they never want to see inflation where the price of food have gone up really very high.
And at the same times in most of this country, you have also the price of electricity and of face was all have gone up.
So I think when when now? So I think the situation, just the economic situation for people is complex.
You can just add to make it more difficult.
As you mentioned, challenge is, of course, that the financial crisis and the economic crisis in general, I should say crisis with A.
S, because I think there are several and impacting in other means.
Also, the states, most of them have less money and let's just to be able to deploy social distance.
So the gap between the reality of the of the people, the fact that they are more poor, more under pressure,
and the ability for states or, you know, even charity services to help them has grown.
So I think I think we have a real issue around that. Can I just make also a link?
And the thing the one and one of the point also is, of course, not only Middle East,
you can see Europe this morning and you saw that Spain is 27.4%, obviously, of unemployment,
54% of young men and women under 27, no job, don't believe,
don't think will go through easily and people would just wait for the next ten years when there is no option.
I think we would also see pressure on governments, on society, on the Red Cross, by the way, to be able to respond to that.
I'm really convinced about it. And so I think when you are in Egypt or in Tunisia and one of your option was also to be able to go what,
maybe Europe and try to make your chance in all these days,
you you find difficult in your country and you know that migrating to Europe is even more difficult than it was before.
I think it also puts pressure on all of us. So first factor is really the economic crisis in which we are and the impact it has on the
food price and the fact that nothing can be solved in all of the country regarding that.
The second you mentioned challenge is the level, the increase of the level of violence.
And I was happy to go that you mentioned that before in general.
But I think it's very clear for today in most of this country, I mean, the level of violence perceived by the people or real has increased.
It's more difficult, maybe not of all of them. But if you look at Libya these days, nobody speak about Libya anymore.
It has disappeared almost from our radar for Libyan people.
There is enormous tensions between, in fact, the region to control the resources.
It's very complicated for, you know, average people. I'm not saying before, but paradise, that's what I'm saying.
But before the rules of the game were that say we're not going to be here today, it's very, very tense.
It's very complicated. So the level of violence is a big issue.
And of course, in the midst of all that, you have Syria and see how we're not talking about tensions,
we're talking about a war war with absolutely a level of violence.
I must say, if I'm speaking about ISIS and my colleagues, what I'm hearing,
what I've seen is we have really we've gone through such a level of violence and it's extremely problematic.
But in Syria right now, you have a country which is completely affected, not by the war in every part of the country.
I would say every Syrian after two years, it's normal for every to feel the world.
There's very little options. That's a good point of view. And we are back to a situation where it's the revenge dynamic kicks in, right?
Where in fact, through communities, through enormous tensions, which makes it extremely difficult.
So the level of violence and people are aware of that because of course, we are in a time where it's extremely easy for you.
So imagine for any Jordanian, Lebanese and people from the region, we all mentioned Syrians very easy to download.
And you when you see there have been of people on a daily basis in Syria.
So you have also this psychological impact on the level of violence.
So you have a level of violence which extremely high it will continue to impact on.
The region. The third you might then challenge is that in all of this country, almost all of the country, you had system, health system,
economic system, education system, which where they fled, or at least the state then, let's say is the largest centralised.
Most of them with the exception of Mali, I would say. And of course, when you have a collapse of the economy, a lot of tensions or war.
One big challenge we see is that systems are collapsing.
And if I just give you two examples, one is, of course, Syria. If I just look at the health system, I rather good and song have a system for war.
Now today what we see and I would like to be careful with the figures of the figures because trend is
extremely difficult to have a sense that compared to comparison why our experience in Iraq was that in 2006,
during the war, doctors were targeted really specifically.
There was a moment where quite a lot of doctors were coming and some of that was due to
the fact that they wanted the wrong place or because of ethnic or religious questions,
but also because they were talking the figures.
And we think the figures are serious. The figures on Iraq was the euro one year.
Iraq lost 50% of their doctor, 17,000 doctor left in the country.
One of the reasons is because they are because they are. They still have the money to be able to, you know, leave the country.
And you find yourself a situation where truly you don't have to get in a country like that.
People would be able to help in Syria. We don't we don't have to use.
But what we see today in hospitals offshore, we see very junior doctors,
everyone very well what trying to do that is not so much a lack of medicine in this case,
a lack of competencies under very difficult situation because often not long because
a patient is the last place where you go because you are arrested in hospital.
So I think in the face of even all the public in terms of competence,
is you suddenly have an entire system which is not only affecting the economy, but also in terms of social incompetence and to the living.
So I would really not underestimate what's happening in terms of health in some of the country and the impact it has.
Then, of course, on the entire society. You can say the same about education very clearly and it is more difficult for us.
We have less experience at the International Committee of the Red Cross,
but we can see clearly again in some of these countries that face less money, less ability and also to repay.
And therefore, some might argue that we just have no education system working.
So we are in a time just think quickly about Syria, even if the war would stop tomorrow, which I hope we are there for a long,
long time in terms of just reconstructing this country, just I mean, this country will need enormous effort and we will pay for it.
We'll be ready to help Syria for the next ten years.
Just to reconstruct this, if you look at how much more difficult it is for Iraq and Europe is a rich country.
Syria has not reached itself. Look at Egypt, how difficult it is to rebuild if you want some of the institution.
So it takes a lot of time and it makes it extremely difficult.
I have two more challenges and they are more linked with a psychological dimension.
I think it's interesting because you were talking about modernisation.
One thing we have learnt, Afghanistan is nothing to do with me.
I think our relationship with with people on the ground, we've really seen over time that the physical impact is critical.
So when you do you have actions you absolutely need to take care of.
Health is of economic security, but we understand more and more reporting needs to be able to talk about mental health care.
Also, in some people, this is what we need to be able to reintegrate that in our thinking.
Typically when we work inside prisons, for example, most of the detainees, what they're telling us is it's not about food.
It's not always not about space, but sometimes it's about, you know, just having an understanding.
Why have you since 12 years without and judgements and requests.
I don't know why. So the psychological dimension, you know, we know that all sexual violence has an enormous impact on the psychology as an example.
So for us, our bill to understand that is absolutely critical.
So what I would say is we see that across the Arab Spring country, but the psychological element is an important one.
There is pressure on people and it's linked with also unpredictability.
We. In a time I think a lot of people were used maybe to unpredictability, but definitely has increased.
You look at all the how we find difficult. Things are changing quickly, the pharmacology changing.
It's difficult for people to grasp while the rules of the game.
Imagine when you are writing a man or in Syria how difficult it is to understand what will happen tomorrow and what is even more striking in,
you know, country. I mentioned there's a clear understanding of what would happen in six months.
Nobody and nobody knows. Nobody has a clue. You going to make scenarios?
It's very difficult.
So that has an impact also for all of us and of course, especially on people and their difficulties to project themself in the future.
And I think we should really not underestimate that. And I would like to make the link with I mentioned Spain.
I mentioned Europe.
For me, one of the elements in Europe that is changing is that for the first time we have people we have us having in front of us five,
ten years we don't know. Within a way, a message that it will be tough and nobody knows what will be forthcoming.
It will be with a very gloomy picture.
You have any kind of feedback on country like Portugal, Spain, but it could have an impact also everywhere in Europe in terms of what you mean.
Imagine when on top of that, your lower your level is lower and you have violence.
So it makes it makes it extremely difficult.
So if I, if I come back to to the ICAC and maybe to to you might organisation like what are the challenges.
And I will finish with that is the first challenge for us as an organisation.
Frankly, with the Arab Spring started measured in Tunisia, we didn't we didn't see it happening.
We were taken by surprise and that was a shock for us because we are no relation on no WhatsApp.
We had to understand perfectly if we grasp. This is the big difference between working and focusing on natural disaster and natural disaster.
You do not preparedness, but of course when it happens you're always forward.
And that's why the local response was important, because that's what happens when you work with war and conflict.
If you look at that, you might have some surprises in terms of time,
but normally you're away close, you understand things and have a good sense of what.
We didn't get it right. We were very surprised by the level of violence, the dynamic we find very we learn very quickly.
So let's be honest. Afterwards, we catch up and I'm not proud of it.
But just to take it from here is always coming very quickly because we are in Libya,
we've only got day one and we saw very quickly a lot of weapons moving out of Libya and going to money
that was very tight in a well-planned and a very complex dynamic that you have a lot of weapons.
Suddenly that budget very quickly will have some consequences in the general dynamic in Mali, but still very difficult.
So I think one element for an organisation like us was, okay, we need to challenge our own assumption the way you understand what's happening.
We need to be careful and understand what are the coping mechanisms.
Maybe we didn't get it. The economic elements we have the sort of twist.
So I think first challenge really, how do we grasp what's happening?
How do we make it? How do we don't just, you know, classical put our own reading, you know, of you know, this is that it is the way it is in Egypt.
No, it's not. So how do you do that?
I think it's a critical element and be much more careful and an extension of the standing, really the diversity of needs.
And it's a very and diversity of issues and it's complex for an organisation like us because
I think of course at the end we need to have a response and the way to respond to that,
but we need to be able to have that.
The single minimum link with that is of course it has also changed slightly our own perspective in terms of how we respond to the needs.
And I think this is a big challenge for international you met an organisation is today we are moving and
surprisingly often these are tensions we have to move outside of a standard response when we do humanitarian.
And it's strange because when you are only working in emergencies you have a very standardised response to be fast,
to be quick, to be able to do that. And it's very clear that you have you have a diversity of needs and issues.
You need yourself to be able to deploy a diversity of response or find partner will help to do that, but you need to be able to do that.
It's critical if you just look at the needs of the people through the prism of health or water or children.
That's one way to look into that think have a real risk to miss what's happening.
So you need as an organisation and it's a big challenge. It doesn't matter how things are in terms of resources and competencies,
you need to have a large finance offering, you might need services and you can deploy depending on the issues,
which means in my organisation for example today we will have from I hope so that's where we
and have some very strong international experts that I've seen based on forensic persons,
some psychologists, some diplomats, 152 different competencies today, very different to Mark just to be able to understand and it's not perfect,
but it's absolutely critical to be able to do that because the challenge is much bigger.
And we've seen that the Arab Spring is was at the moment where suddenly we discovered that, but it has put us much more aware of that, if possible.
The other element linked with humanitarian needs is, let's say,
understanding the needs is the ability to manage at the same times acute needs when there's a crisis.
Give us a good example. And when you intervene in Libya, you have to understand it is actually foreign students.
Good example too. You have to be able to work on acute issues,
but at the same time to understand what are the chronicle and more systemic issues and you need to be able to work around that.
And one of the issue is, even if the dynamic is new in most of these country,
you have really chronically issues and you cannot just intervene on small action.
So when you intervene in a hospital or when you when you really want to tackle the dimensions of setbacks,
understand some of the social that some of this is need to be able to tackle.
And I think it's a big issue for us in our ability to manage it.
So first challenge as an organisation is how do you really understand the needs,
how you're close enough, and how are you able then to move out of a very classical standardised?
Response. It's complicated. In a world where donors but also all the people want us to have standardise, and rightly so.
I mean, you know, so the level of response, the second challenge,
which is I think maybe the biggest challenge we have right now, it's access to people affected.
And here I would like to be clear with you. Is that it?
If I make myself ISIS, I think they're close to death and not only one and you off repeated repetition.
So we have the nomination we want and I think it's critical that we can grasp that we want to be an organisation which is not it was only to
have six people but also try to protect and repetition is absolutely create in there and understanding the coming back again is fundamental.
And right now we are in a time where access by international you make an organisation is not welcome, although very key.
And they said, what we want is no obligation. We are very, very rational and healthy.
They represent about 5% of the vote today.
The vast majority of conflict are internal. So there is no real obligation from all on, from the authorities to.
Well, be.
It's not new. But the pressure is big.
There is clearly a gain or let's say, more assertiveness for states to express that sovereignty, even a failed state.
I'm careful about this notion, but it's a weakness.
I've seen that sort of, you know, I'm amazed by Kenya 2007 when it was post-election, obviously very high.
I had the feeling that the only thing the two party agreed was make sure that there is no international dimension.
They disagree on everything else, but they didn't want to have an international intervene in their space.
Look at Myanmar and there was a typhoon three or four years ago.
I mean, they manage now. They know it's not the Myanmar flag. For years of almost once a year by the international community as the Gulf country,
they manage to make sure that there was not an international intervention or only led by them in the region or starting to look at Sri Lanka.
Look at the we can we can look at a lot of country. And even today you can look at Syria.
You can clearly, if you would look at the U.N. humanitarian actions program, it's called U.N. United Actions led by the Syrian government.
You know, this is the way news and I think it's interesting.
So we have something which makes it very clear that today international organisation find it difficult to join in.
And last but not least, of course, you have security issues. Make it complex.
We have not to exaggerate. It's difficult, but it's our job also and address not stupid.
And I don't want to put security as a first issue.
I think we find more difficult sometimes to get access and acceptance in a world where today a lot of international organisation and
to finish that in their own system they have outsource the risk and they have local partnership as a main source of of the summit.
So of course it makes it difficult when another organisation really to really be on the spot in close happening.
I think this is one of them. So that affects us making sure that governments,
but also non-state armed groups understand that that population one stop is absolutely of critical essence.
And I must say, as a working at the ICRC is if my organisation will be not able to have direct access in Afghanistan,
in Yemen, in Sudan, in Goma, with all the problems,
I think we would clearly quickly lose our edge in our understanding of what's happening in our ability to influence also all stakeholders,
because direct access means also we are able to speak to everybody. And how do you give the example of obviously the, you know,
how difficult in Syria and I must be clear review is 71 of the most frustrating operation for I
think all of us a crisis and is an operation where what we can do is so far from what we should do.
But I just wanted to tell you also that, in fact, surprisingly enough, we are able to get access, we are able to cross lines, we are able to discuss.
It's very painful and I think it's great together with our colleagues of the Red Crescent.
But why are we able to let a bit do a bit more now of the way that was six months ago, and I hope even more tomorrow?
Actually, the sequences are there because we talk directly to the governor of Homs,
of Aleppo, because we understand why the non-state actors and they are very difficult.
It's very fragmented. But because we are there, why are we able to talk?
And how to get a meaningful response in Afghanistan with all the violence is because we have not discovered the having of it.
We have talk with them at the same time as the government, the international forces since years and not just once engaged on the spot.
And this is absolutely critical.
If the humanitarian start to lose, except to lose that, that would be a major impact, especially on the on the protection.
So direct access is absolutely critical for us. Last but not least,
it's and I was related to that and I think we are struggling with that is how do we engage
with multiple stakeholders as an organisation we are using this is the way to do it.
We have used to work with government, with arm, with non-state armed group where the chain of command is relevant.
You know what else? How do we work in the world of today and tomorrow where in fact, people,
a group of people without leaders are challenging you are asking you to do things are comparing are rating you almost life.
And just to give you one or two example which are strikes it strikes me always I think some of you are aware of that,
but it's the example which really makes me think about the first day when we announced that we were able to visit the Damascus Central Prison.
18 months ago, the very same day, some of us got a SMS on our phone saying, Hey, it's the wrong prison, not the right to go there.
And so you have people connecting with you, writers of the network, you know,
bringing you have a direct impact on you that somebody is is much more complex this way on behalf of people who are sending you
over the whole picture or allegation of extreme violence or where you are actually challenged on YouTube by people saying not,
there is no how can you even not talk?
Let me move out of the country for a minute. My colleagues at the American Red Cross, we're very trying to do something recently in New York.
They did a good job. That's what really was about was there was a fairness thing, although it wasn't the only group with Walter.
And he was shouting, Where is the Red Cross? I don't see them.
Nobody here to help. And it came into mainstream media and it's very complex and it has to reflect.
You have to move on. I think it's an interesting matter. It is a good example to where it strikes me an idea when when that has happened.
A lot of resources were flown in related to Port au Prince in the neighbourhoods and there was,
there was a family which was something like 30 kilometres out of course, and also Prince.
Sadly, the building collapsed and one of the young workers one block and there was nobody felt that there was not enough people.
What is interesting is they managed to have phone numbers of Americans to send to the Americans.
And after the photo of the. What is amazing is the American senators didn't destroy that.
But look, he told us, he called us. I said so the good news is my colleagues in Washington realise as an American senator, let's take it seriously.
Well, you never know. You know, we called CENTCOM, which is in fact was the central command of the US forces managing in fact,
how they understood ICRC plus the banking sector must be serious.
And they gave instructions to that. And Nike changed their plan.
And to go back to the disco.
The sad news is it was too late. She died.
But what I found interesting, just as a learning is today people affected can change your can,
you can put pressure, they can directly engage, which is absolutely was not the case for how they get rich.
Going to compare for us we have a lot of experience in Darfur.
All the places where communities were complaining. You know, people who saying, you know, you are coming in microgravity,
but you don't have you just you don't have enough oxygen and you're going to get more and all this kind of questions to use that today.
What is amazing is people are comparing from a country to another.
They are challenging directly. They are engaging much more.
And I think what I'm saying just here is it's challenge because challenging our almost to majority rule,
you know, the rule which we you you hear and the people are affected.
We will tell you what are their needs. That was the position of humanitarian.
Most likely, people are now directly telling you what are the deaths?
So we have to think about ways of how do we engage?
What does that mean? How we validate that. And by the way, this challenge will be felt by these tell the deep time by video or even written.
You can look at media today if you want to be informed about Syria.
I mean, you have all the information you want. But now, of course, we need to have an in place to be able to put that together, to give a sense of it.
But in a way, this is a big challenge for us. How do we capture that?
And especially looking at, again, the Arab Spring, how do we make sure that we understand now, again, the Arab Spring in Libya, in Egypt and Tunisia,
we are back to what we know, which is meeting with the army, with our group, because the people have in a way, come back again to their position.
Yes. So how are we able to make sure that we engage?
Well, understand we see that that that's a critical element.
So I think to finish and the glue that I think we need to be prepared for a long spring to be that way or for a very long time.
I think we are clearly of the opinion that what has happened now in Middle East will continue.
I must say Syria will be a pivotal element of what's happening.
My hope and really I think they're aware of that, that today Lebanon, Jordan are very,
very close to collapse, that to be not able to help the people, the refugees.
It's extremely difficult divided. Just give you a sense it's 25% of the population, just the right wing party.
You know, you are aware that part of already very important force and even enough fighting already in Syria.
So if you look at, of course, what might happen in Syria, it will have an impact.
It has an impact in the region. You will have an impact on Iraq, on Turkey.
It has already it has an impact. You will have an impact in Palestine-Israel.
So you can see that depending on what can happen, how the impact of Syria will go on.
But we can see also that the wave of what we've gone through is not finished.
And I think a day means for us being able to to be there, to be able to have access, to understand, to be able to to deal with these issues.
And and I think also maybe in a sense, that's one of the reason I'm interested that you go I'm so glad that you went back to talk to you today.
Yes. I also have the opinion that in the years to come, we won't be in a position and Syria has shown it to have an international convergence.
And then what seems to be able to deal with global issue like conflict?
I don't think I think we are in a time where governments might be able to deal with terrorist and possible.
I don't think governments globally will be a position to deal with conflict.
I don't think that is an international convergence.
So the key word most likely for us, especially when you talk about armed conflict, will be containment.
And that's not new, but it's even more clear now what needs to.
It would be better, let's say, than us the next ten years in times of conflict, in terms of pensions, in terms of connections.
We've seen how much money influences, what influence.
And you know, much about what is happening in Mali would have an influence on Nigeria and possibly Nigeria.
Just look at the region from Mali to Somalia.
It's amazing to think that the only country is very stable is Chad for one role in the region.
Tells you a little bit about the problems and the issues. So let's be aware of that.
Is no international convergence at least allowing to deal with conflict?
So containment will be the big issue.
So for us, humanitarian, the ability to make sure that people don't forget that also that we are able to get access there,
that we get also the support will be absolutely critical.
I'm sorry to give you a bit of a gloomy picture. I want you to do something positive.
It's a revolution we've got to deal with. Let's remember in history, the revolution more so than and well.
But it took so long time before. Thank you.
Thank.