1 00:00:08,930 --> 00:00:14,570 Welcome to Fusion of Journalism, a podcast from the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism at the University of Oxford. 2 00:00:15,140 --> 00:00:18,260 I'm going to be any kind of leadership development at the Institute. 3 00:00:22,570 --> 00:00:26,950 It is a special series of our podcast and is dedicated to the Digital News Report. 4 00:00:26,950 --> 00:00:33,910 2022. Over seven episodes with diving into the most comprehensive piece of research on news consumption around the world. 5 00:00:34,630 --> 00:00:38,320 In this episode of the series, we're joined by lead author of the report. 6 00:00:38,350 --> 00:00:42,070 Nick Newman was written a chapter on email newsletters. 7 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:47,500 We look at findings on how many people use this medium to news audiences who find 8 00:00:47,500 --> 00:00:52,030 the most popular and the appeal of the format to users and publishers alike. 9 00:00:52,270 --> 00:00:56,110 Nick, welcome to the podcast. Very good to be here, Fredricka. 10 00:00:57,260 --> 00:01:01,510 So we tend to think of e-mail as being all fashion and low tech, 11 00:01:01,660 --> 00:01:10,120 but getting news directly in your inbox seems to be having an enduring value, at least to some news agencies and news organisations. 12 00:01:10,690 --> 00:01:15,700 Firstly, what are some of the headline figures and how many people use email newsletters? 13 00:01:17,460 --> 00:01:26,520 It sort of varies across countries, but it tends to be somewhere around a 10th to a quarter who get a newsletter weekly. 14 00:01:27,570 --> 00:01:32,430 And obviously many of them are also getting them daily highest in countries like the United States. 15 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:38,729 So about 22% say that they get a newsletter, a weekly and interestingly, about half. 16 00:01:38,730 --> 00:01:44,070 So it's their main source of news, but they're much lower in in countries like the UK. 17 00:01:44,610 --> 00:01:52,290 But I think that kind of really interesting bit is the people who it's the it's the type of people who are using email newsletters. 18 00:01:52,290 --> 00:02:01,530 They tend to be people who are very interested in news, tend to be people who pay for news and who new who use the news most regularly. 19 00:02:01,540 --> 00:02:08,939 So in that sense, you know, this group of people is absolutely critical for the sort of sustainability of many news organisations, 20 00:02:08,940 --> 00:02:13,650 whether you're, you know, ad supported or or subscription based. 21 00:02:14,070 --> 00:02:18,240 I guess the other thing to say is, you know, we think of as a lot of focus on email. 22 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:24,750 We think of email newsletters maybe as growing, but actually they're not really growing. 23 00:02:24,750 --> 00:02:32,190 And part of the reason is that they're facing huge competition in terms of access points from other types of media. 24 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:41,909 So social media in particular, which has grown very substantially mobile alerts, mobile aggregators, we've also seen sort of significant growth there. 25 00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:47,610 And so in that sense, it's quite interesting that the email newsletters actually in terms of weekly reaches have stayed pretty 26 00:02:47,610 --> 00:02:54,210 much the same so that you can see that sort of success in the face of these other growing forms of access. 27 00:02:55,450 --> 00:03:04,120 For those who actually don't use email newsletters and are not very familiar with them, can you outline what are they like, how they're structures? 28 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:09,040 What are the broad categories they fall into? That's a really hard question. 29 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:17,619 Federico, thank you so much. And we haven't attempted this this this time to sort of really categorise them into into buckets. 30 00:03:17,620 --> 00:03:22,120 But I think some of it some of the differences come out in general responses. 31 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:28,540 So we ask people to tell us what kind of emails they access, and then we sort of put those in different buckets. 32 00:03:29,050 --> 00:03:33,430 So I think you have you have general news roundups. 33 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:41,650 So these are often curated these days. And I think the sort of intention of media companies doing this is to save people time. 34 00:03:42,130 --> 00:03:44,830 Quite often they've got links to websites within them. 35 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:49,569 So the aim is to sort of attract attention, if you like, and get people to go to those websites. 36 00:03:49,570 --> 00:03:53,500 So you'll be familiar with formats like Five Things You Need to Know Today. 37 00:03:54,400 --> 00:04:06,010 They became very widespread during COVID pandemic they've they've sometimes because the ones on so on Ukraine for example organisations 38 00:04:06,010 --> 00:04:13,600 like the BBC and CNN have really sort of adapted these formats and actually taken them from email to to websites as well. 39 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,690 So you see these formats elsewhere as well. 40 00:04:17,290 --> 00:04:20,500 You have Axios. I would I would call that as a real pioneer in this. 41 00:04:21,010 --> 00:04:27,159 So they've developed this idea of smart brevity, explicitly trying to be careful with your time. 42 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:35,200 So they tell you how long this email is going to be. So curating round ups in specialist areas as well as general news, 43 00:04:36,010 --> 00:04:42,940 then you have I think another category is articles that are designed to be read in your email. 44 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,549 So these are often personally authored articles. 45 00:04:45,550 --> 00:04:51,040 Effectively, they might have links within them, but they're not trying to push you anywhere else with links. 46 00:04:51,310 --> 00:04:54,790 You know, the main business model is to spend time. 47 00:04:54,790 --> 00:04:58,509 We can sell that time for sponsorship or in some cases subscription. 48 00:04:58,510 --> 00:05:05,200 So that's where, you know, we start to see individual journalists making money out of emails that appear in your inbox. 49 00:05:05,860 --> 00:05:10,239 And then the final category I would call out is breaking news or breaking news alerts. 50 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,850 So these these are, I think, have become less popular over time. 51 00:05:12,850 --> 00:05:19,000 But in a previous report, we actually found almost half of email users subscribed some kind of breaking news email as well. 52 00:05:19,010 --> 00:05:22,360 So that's sort of broadly the kind of buckets that we that we find. 53 00:05:23,300 --> 00:05:32,920 I'm going to add a funny one. Which one do you use? I, I get about I get about ten or I use all of those. 54 00:05:34,090 --> 00:05:40,059 I probably get about 20 emails a day. So mainstream round ups from BBC, Politico, 55 00:05:40,060 --> 00:05:50,650 the times I get a huge bucket of of ones about the media as one I really like by Matt Deegan on audio 56 00:05:51,300 --> 00:05:58,510 sort of beautifully written always on sort of one or two subjects Nieman Lab of Reuters Institute, 57 00:05:58,510 --> 00:06:04,329 of course, fantastic curated section A Substack one. 58 00:06:04,330 --> 00:06:09,069 Casey Newton I think a lot of people subscribe to that, which is about developments in Silicon Valley. 59 00:06:09,070 --> 00:06:14,020 That's a that's a subscriber one. And I get a couple of really interesting political ones as well, 60 00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:18,160 which I've subscribed to recently, said one by Margaret Cox Richardson on U.S. politics, 61 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:25,779 there's a UK one called The Ruffian by Ian Leslie, which is always interesting, lands in your email box on the Saturday morning. 62 00:06:25,780 --> 00:06:33,130 So, you know, a lot of diversity and you know, I think that's bringing in a lot of new perspectives and as well as sort of saving time. 63 00:06:33,460 --> 00:06:35,290 So it's probably illustrative of the types. 64 00:06:36,870 --> 00:06:43,110 You mentioned in the ones you just mentioned, a mix between news organisation and actually solo journalist. 65 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:47,550 I'm curious what the report says. What are the most popular sources of email news? 66 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:57,450 Right. Yeah. So so we divided it up into mainstream media, then specialist publications that you might subscribe to for your work. 67 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:03,360 I just talk about my media, for example, or it might be about passions, you know, things like sport or arts. 68 00:07:03,780 --> 00:07:12,120 Then alternative outlets, which which we kind of think of as almost anti mainstream media, some might be political. 69 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,200 It might just be, you know, different kind of perspectives. And then individual journalists working on their own, 70 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,629 some see overlaps between that and split those with the categories and most categories in most countries, 71 00:07:21,630 --> 00:07:29,160 we find that the majority of emails that people say they get are from big mainstream media companies in every in every country. 72 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:36,690 So more than 50%, about a fifth say they get newsletters from specialist organisations for their work, 73 00:07:36,690 --> 00:07:42,780 etc. Same for alternative media and then a smaller percentage from individual journalists. 74 00:07:42,780 --> 00:07:45,720 But what's what's interesting about that is the country differences. 75 00:07:45,730 --> 00:07:55,560 So in the US, 18% of email subscribers say they get newsletters from an individual journalist and that's just 4% in the UK. 76 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:02,219 So I think that just speaks to, you know, the so-called Substack Revolution where you've got individual journalists now getting paid 77 00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:10,560 for what they do and charging money that's gone much further in the U.S. So we see we see, 78 00:08:10,710 --> 00:08:16,480 you know, a lot of substack newsletters. Substack, I think, took about 1 million people who are now paying for their newsletters, 79 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:21,210 the vast majority of those in the U.S. and it hasn't gone nearly as far in countries like the UK. 80 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,500 I'm going to stay on differences between countries. 81 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:28,200 Aside from the sources are coming from. 82 00:08:28,590 --> 00:08:37,040 Have you seen any reason why newsletters seem to have a very different prominence in some countries Tibet, other, the U.K., for example, 83 00:08:37,050 --> 00:08:43,890 and notably at the bottom of the list where people accessing news through email at less than half the rate seen in the U.S. 84 00:08:43,950 --> 00:08:53,719 How do you explain these big differences? I think it's partly about supply and demand where media companies have really sort of focus their efforts. 85 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,470 So US publications have been into email for a very long time. 86 00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:06,500 They invested them consistently. For example, The New York Times now produces, I think, 50 different emails read by. 87 00:09:06,860 --> 00:09:13,069 They claim 15 million people a week. But you also have a sort of very, very large market. 88 00:09:13,070 --> 00:09:17,120 And I think that's really encouraged this sort of entrepreneurial journalism and 89 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,140 some of the developments we're seeing in paying for individual emails as well. 90 00:09:22,430 --> 00:09:24,770 So it's partly about the larger market. 91 00:09:24,770 --> 00:09:31,760 It's partly about that that really helps the sort of commercial incentives to produce a format that now has a business model. 92 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:38,360 And if you compare that to smaller markets like Norway, for example, very close to the bottom of the list, 93 00:09:38,450 --> 00:09:43,750 you know, lots of interest in news, but quite low email subscription. 94 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:49,040 And I think that's partly because they have much stronger and more confident brand connexions. 95 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:54,980 So, you know, they've got people who in our research are much more likely to go directly to websites and apps. 96 00:09:55,580 --> 00:10:03,380 Subscription rates are pretty high, so maybe publishers don't feel as much need to push content to audiences through through email. 97 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:12,080 Are there any demographic factors, influences influencing what rate people use email newsletters? 98 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:16,150 Absolutely. I mean, there's a huge geographic demographic split. 99 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:23,240 So email is mainly valued by older, richer, more educated news consumers. 100 00:10:23,270 --> 00:10:32,500 I mean, there are a particularly interesting group of people for for many news organisations and this is true across countries, 101 00:10:32,510 --> 00:10:41,219 about one in, in the US, just like in the US, about one in seven of over 55 say email is actually their main way of accessing news. 102 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:48,170 So it's really important to that older group, partly because they spend a lot of time in email and they don't really use social media so much. 103 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,950 But if you compare that to the younger youngest, groups are under 25, 104 00:10:52,550 --> 00:10:57,890 just 3% of them say the emails Hemingway of accessing news in the US compared 105 00:10:57,890 --> 00:11:02,780 with you know four in ten say social media is their main way of accessing news. 106 00:11:02,780 --> 00:11:09,499 So you can see that that that that difference is not surprising because you know young people 107 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:13,400 generally don't spend a lot of time in email that they're mainly in communication apps. 108 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,770 And so if you want to reach younger people, if your strategy is to do so, email's probably not your best. 109 00:11:18,770 --> 00:11:23,960 But right. Email newsletter via WhatsApp or something like that. 110 00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:31,310 What it is that readers say they enjoy about newsletters? 111 00:11:32,570 --> 00:11:40,180 I think in terms of the benefits, again we sort of got at this through three sort of open questions and then and also survey response. 112 00:11:40,580 --> 00:11:44,880 And fundamentally people tell us it's, it's about convenience, you know, 113 00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:50,300 the way in which email brings together a package of information in a format that's easy to consume. 114 00:11:50,450 --> 00:11:55,550 So 65% say that's why they like email newsletters. 115 00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:58,910 And then beyond that, diverse perspectives. 116 00:11:59,390 --> 00:12:06,049 So that sense that you're hearing views or analysis that you won't get anywhere else in the mainstream media, 117 00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:10,490 for example, that might be just different types of voices. It might be an inside track on something. 118 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:15,229 And then closely related to that is the idea of unique content 24%. 119 00:12:15,230 --> 00:12:22,850 So you can't get it anywhere else. And this is particularly interesting when it comes to getting people to pay for content. 120 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:28,310 This is where, you know, I was talking about Casey Newton and his platform, a substack email. 121 00:12:28,910 --> 00:12:36,080 So where you can when you've got something that's truly unique, then you can start to charge for that kind of content. 122 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:42,439 So, you know, authorial voice is another really important one for people as well. 123 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,860 And that's a trend that we've seen grow over time. 124 00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:51,919 So email newsletters used to be about just links and now increasingly they're about the personality of the author as well. 125 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,400 That's another reason why people say that they enjoy the emails. 126 00:12:56,970 --> 00:13:06,770 What do you think that curated nature of some of these newsletters, the very human and personal tone says about how news is traditionally delivered? 127 00:13:06,810 --> 00:13:13,020 Do you think this is a response to being too much news out there to navigate, for example? 128 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:19,010 Yeah, definitely. I think that sense of convenience and we know elsewhere in the world what people talk about being overwhelmed by the news. 129 00:13:19,060 --> 00:13:27,950 I think that idea of convenience and saving time, which is the dominant reason why people are using these email newsletters, is part of it. 130 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:33,690 But I think what we've seen is the growth of these sort of curated emails where you have a personality. 131 00:13:33,690 --> 00:13:41,040 And that's partly because digital has really struggled to engage people in the way that media like television or radio was able to do. 132 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:47,490 And therefore, you know, you're not really getting the time with with media. 133 00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:55,470 And so I think the curation aspect is trying to build that connexion, build that loyalty that media companies really are after. 134 00:13:56,460 --> 00:14:02,250 And and I mean, just to give one example, The New York Times, which used to have a sort of morning roundup, 135 00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:06,180 which was quite sort of cold and cynical, added this authorial voice. 136 00:14:06,180 --> 00:14:14,430 And David Leonhart, who's a Pulitzer Prise winning journalist, has been curating the morning email from The New York Times for several years now. 137 00:14:14,430 --> 00:14:21,930 And he sort of brings a more relaxed tone. But but there also are risks around that because, you know, you bring a more human tone. 138 00:14:21,930 --> 00:14:25,919 It can risk injecting, more bias or polarising opinions. 139 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,770 And Bradley himself was criticised over his COVID coverage. 140 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:36,720 So, you know, the sort of trade offs and we also see sort of some of the rebels trying to be the opposite of that and saying, 141 00:14:37,020 --> 00:14:41,710 you know, what we're going to be is completely unbiased and we're just going to give you the links and you can make your own view. 142 00:14:41,740 --> 00:14:51,150 So emails like 1440, for example, stress the impartial curation of more than 100 sources, but still that same convenient package saving your time. 143 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:58,440 This is a probably a broad question, but what value do you think news organisations see in email newsletter? 144 00:14:58,710 --> 00:15:01,980 What does an email offer that a website can? 145 00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:10,060 I mean, we're not going back to when I was working on on websites for the BBC. 146 00:15:10,090 --> 00:15:15,819 One of the frustrations was, you know, we're producing all of this content and we only have a front page. 147 00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:18,610 So you would have these huge arguments about what you put on the front page. 148 00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:28,870 And I think email kind of helps to solve that problem because it allows you to create other front pages that, you know, may have a, you know, 149 00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:31,809 a topic focus or they may have a personality focus, 150 00:15:31,810 --> 00:15:36,910 just different ways of curating all of that content and resurfacing that content in different ways. 151 00:15:37,540 --> 00:15:42,099 So in the absence of amazing personalisation technology, which we've been waiting for for about 20 years, 152 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:49,690 I think email is actually kind of the best way or another great way of giving you a front page into all of the content that you have. 153 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:58,030 And you know, I think that from a news organisations point of view, but also for consumers point of view, that's one of the key advantages. 154 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:03,940 We look at consumers and we look at what it is in in newsletters for news organisation. 155 00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:08,290 We shouldn't forget an important point which is the business model, 156 00:16:08,740 --> 00:16:13,570 how our newsletters are part of their news organisation, business models and amendment. 157 00:16:14,260 --> 00:16:22,239 I think increasingly, you know, it used to be that the core aim of news organisations when they were mainly ad supported was about, 158 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:28,809 was about reach and about clicks. But I think increasingly now it's about loyalty, it's about getting people to come back more often. 159 00:16:28,810 --> 00:16:32,130 It's about demonstrating that an email is, you know, 160 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:40,660 probably the most important tool in in the armoury now about driving more frequent visits for many media organisations. 161 00:16:42,010 --> 00:16:47,080 And you know, the data shows that people are much less likely to churn, 162 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:54,279 i.e. to unsubscribe if they are, if they've signed up to one or more email newsletters, for example. 163 00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:00,310 So still, this rather old fashioned technique of, of getting people to sign up to an email is, 164 00:17:00,490 --> 00:17:06,820 is the most effective way of keeping people engaged on a regular basis and then acquisition. 165 00:17:07,150 --> 00:17:09,280 So getting new people to sign up. 166 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:16,480 So that's, that's another part of it, you know, via a free newsletter, you get that email address and you can start to build a relationship with them. 167 00:17:17,020 --> 00:17:19,660 So it's important for acquisition, it's important for retention, 168 00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:24,340 and I think for subscription publishers, I think we're seeing a bit of a shift right now. 169 00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:28,719 So, you know, it was primarily seen as marketing in the past, 170 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:36,550 but I think we're we're seeing many more organisations bundle their emails in with the subscription product, 171 00:17:36,850 --> 00:17:43,060 so only available to subscribers as a way of locking people in more, I guess. 172 00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:50,860 So The Wall Street Journal, for example, has bundled its ten point morning briefing, which used to be free into its course subscription product. 173 00:17:51,220 --> 00:17:56,260 New York Times has recently converted about a dozen of its newsletters, 174 00:17:56,260 --> 00:18:01,780 which were again free into subscriber only products and added a few a few new ones. 175 00:18:01,780 --> 00:18:09,249 So, you know, at the moment, the media industry is really worried about losing their subscribers because of the cost of living, 176 00:18:09,250 --> 00:18:18,370 crisis and email in a really critical way of sort of tying people in more closely added value. 177 00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:22,570 Yeah, absolutely. Nick, thank you so much for joining us for the podcast today. 178 00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:28,870 It's a pleasure. Our guest today was Nick Newman, lead author of the Digital News Report. 179 00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:34,300 Thank you all for listening to this episode of The News Report 2022 Podcast Series. 180 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,500 You can catch up on other episodes on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. 181 00:18:39,070 --> 00:18:45,250 If you want to read a report in full, you can find it online and Digital News Report August 20, 22. 182 00:18:45,670 --> 00:18:48,040 And if you want to see any news from the Institute, 183 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:54,220 you can subscribe to our very own weekly newsletter by clicking the link on our Twitter bio or on our home page. 184 00:18:55,300 --> 00:19:00,340 Dissociative Journalism A podcast by the Writers Institute. I'm a cherubini and will be back soon.