1 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:14,750 Welcome to fugitive journalism cast from the Institute for the Study of Journalism at the University of Oxford. 2 00:00:15,230 --> 00:00:19,740 I am Diego, aka this office. I am the manager at the Occupy Metro's name. 3 00:00:22,580 --> 00:00:27,600 And in this episode, we will explore climate journalism with the help of three guests. 4 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:34,700 I am joined by Angela mendoza from Brazil, who was the environment reporter of the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. 5 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:44,600 Ethan Benjamin, a journalist from the Daily Maverick in South Africa and a reporter with Philippine Daily Inquirer in the Philippines, 6 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,860 Angela, Ethan and Krisher. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having us. 7 00:00:51,730 --> 00:00:55,510 Thanks for having me. It's great. It feels so fancy. Thank you for having me. 8 00:00:56,540 --> 00:01:04,040 I'm glad to hear. Six months ago, the three of you were part of the group who joined us for the first cohort at the Ultra Clemenger Network. 9 00:01:04,590 --> 00:01:12,530 And between January and June, we held online events every two weeks with 100 reporters, including three of you from all over the world. 10 00:01:12,770 --> 00:01:19,670 And we hosted dozens of informal calls online. And our mission together was to collectively attempt to make climate journalism better, 11 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,480 more interesting, more effective, and more relevant to the audiences. 12 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:30,169 And over the course of the six months, I think we managed to think a lot about that, 13 00:01:30,170 --> 00:01:35,100 and we managed to really explore the way climate journalism works. 14 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,839 We met with leading climate scientists and experts to learn how to questions, 15 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,820 reshaping our understanding of global health, of climate justice and find interesting a few. 16 00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:51,799 And I think more importantly, we also debated and brainstormed how to meet the challenge of covering these stories 17 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,640 well and what the climate conscious newsroom on the future might look like. 18 00:01:56,750 --> 00:02:01,280 And I want to start by asking you, can you tell us about your experience at the network? 19 00:02:01,460 --> 00:02:05,600 How was it for you guys to have this experience six months with the court? 20 00:02:06,470 --> 00:02:10,400 To be perfectly honest, I was so terrified at first. 21 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:17,610 I was very scared at the start of the programme, almost immediately when we began our classes. 22 00:02:17,630 --> 00:02:22,880 I can already sense that most of my classmates have been covering climate reporting for years. 23 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:30,260 So because I wasn't really an environmental reporter at the start, I felt like a time before we even being here. 24 00:02:30,950 --> 00:02:38,330 There were staff, there was Jessica, Stephen, Joanne, Johanna and of course my two classmates here. 25 00:02:38,750 --> 00:02:46,880 They already seemed very entrenched in climate reporting already, so I was very scared of being out of depth with the lectures. 26 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:48,860 But then as the weeks went on, 27 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:59,860 I was very grateful that Reuters Institute and Oxford were kept their word when they first called for applications for this particular cohort that the 28 00:02:59,870 --> 00:03:05,779 classes in the workshops will be tailored precisely so that people who don't 29 00:03:05,780 --> 00:03:09,950 necessarily cover climate change will be able to understand the issue as well. 30 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:17,160 So it was very fascinating listening to how climate intersects with, for example, gender based issues. 31 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:23,270 So how women and children tend to be the most vulnerable during disasters, how it's linked to mental health. 32 00:03:24,740 --> 00:03:28,760 What I also noticed is that each lecturer was very logically linked to one another, 33 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:36,650 and you never felt like this particular course was just shoehorned into the six month course just so you could fill up the schedule. 34 00:03:37,820 --> 00:03:45,590 And what I also appreciate about the programme is that I've met people who otherwise would not have met if I wasn't part of the cohort. 35 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,580 So apart from Diego and Katherine and of course my classmates, 36 00:03:51,140 --> 00:04:00,000 I never would have imagined sitting in a lecture being headed by the likes of Dr. Anthony O'Neil, Lorena Gonzalez. 37 00:04:00,020 --> 00:04:08,030 So it's the kind of network that provides you opportunities to be connect with with sources 38 00:04:08,030 --> 00:04:12,260 and people that you would that otherwise would not have been made available to you. 39 00:04:12,950 --> 00:04:16,690 But to be clear, though, the Philippines does not have a shortage of resources. 40 00:04:16,700 --> 00:04:21,019 We have a lot of brilliant scientists. We have a lot of community organisers and climate activists. 41 00:04:21,020 --> 00:04:29,000 But of course it's very important to be linked with global experts so that you can be able to listen to what they have to offer, 42 00:04:29,630 --> 00:04:35,800 listen to the global solutions that they have, and think about how it can be emulated and do local practises here. 43 00:04:36,650 --> 00:04:42,470 Thank you very much. You had the point about the local expert was something that you need. Your colleague at the network also made a lot. 44 00:04:43,260 --> 00:04:51,890 Ethan, how was it for you? It's hard to follow that. It was pretty comprehensive, but I agree with most of those sentiments. 45 00:04:53,120 --> 00:05:00,920 For me, it's a unique situation where I come from a background where I was really a political reporter, parliamentary reporter, 46 00:05:01,580 --> 00:05:09,409 and then I essentially I'd done only six months of on the beat of just the climate 47 00:05:09,410 --> 00:05:14,150 change and the climate crisis and environmental reporting more generally. 48 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:26,720 And I sort of went on a process of like self-education, familiarising myself with the different terms and, and the science and understanding things. 49 00:05:27,020 --> 00:05:36,559 So then when. I'm just now at the end of my first year, so the second half was with The O.C. Jian Jae in. 50 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:43,459 And what happened was that was sort of like the it in a sense, it was like a formal education, 51 00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:54,620 just iterating what I had learnt and reinforcing it, but also expanding on what I thought I knew in the best possible way. 52 00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:01,090 I always say that. I had no idea about attribution. 53 00:06:01,180 --> 00:06:10,149 Quite frankly, I had no idea that attribution science had evolved or progressed to the point where specific extreme 54 00:06:10,150 --> 00:06:18,130 weather events can be rapidly attributed to as an as an impact of global warming and climate change. 55 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,870 And that's just one example. I think it was just it was it was really good. 56 00:06:23,260 --> 00:06:27,790 It was it never felt too formal. It wasn't. 57 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:32,049 I just I have nothing but good things to say, quite frankly. 58 00:06:32,050 --> 00:06:36,790 I think it was it was an education in the best possible way. 59 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:44,200 So I'm really happy to hear that. And it is. And you are you are by no means a newcomer to environmental reporting. 60 00:06:44,380 --> 00:06:56,530 How was the experience for you? Well, as my colleague said, this course was a unique and fantastic opportunity to learn with the training sessions, 61 00:06:56,530 --> 00:07:02,170 to learn from colleagues from around the world and and to not work with them. 62 00:07:02,620 --> 00:07:09,580 I think this is a this is a big this is a big benefit, great benefits from the programme. 63 00:07:10,090 --> 00:07:17,290 But most of all, I think that this programme gave me some sort of binoculars to look into the future, 64 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,080 at least the future that I really hope that we can have when covering the climate crisis. 65 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:32,460 It's a future where journalists with diverse backgrounds working in different beats, not only in science or environment. 66 00:07:33,580 --> 00:07:41,860 So these journalists will try to embed the discussions and the reporting on climate in everything to do so. 67 00:07:41,970 --> 00:07:53,080 The most important lesson from this experience for me was that climate reporting can be this add on to our usual reporting. 68 00:07:53,440 --> 00:08:02,560 So the crisis is very much real, right? So as journalists, our mission should be to help everyone take it seriously. 69 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,860 So it was very for me, it was very energising to see my colleagues from around the world. 70 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:17,469 So we were 100 journalists from different places in the world working tirelessly to meet this challenge. 71 00:08:17,470 --> 00:08:26,110 And this reality is the reality that I want to see everywhere when when I use these binoculars. 72 00:08:27,070 --> 00:08:30,070 This is the inspiration that the network brought to me. 73 00:08:30,070 --> 00:08:34,570 And and I intend to continue to apply it to my work. 74 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,709 And, and everything I do is very running to here because of the of climate journalism. 75 00:08:38,710 --> 00:08:42,850 Being in every desk of the newsroom is actually what we were aiming for when we started the network. 76 00:08:43,300 --> 00:08:49,420 And I would like to hear from you, because you mentioned these for from all of you. 77 00:08:49,420 --> 00:08:53,940 How did your approach to climate journalism change after six months of the court? 78 00:08:54,820 --> 00:08:58,930 What what change in the way you saw how journalism covers climate change? 79 00:09:00,150 --> 00:09:04,170 Well, I am in a very privileged position and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. 80 00:09:04,170 --> 00:09:07,830 So as an investigative journalist, I'm an environment reporter. 81 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:15,360 My beat prioritises the climate reporting and I have the full support of my team and my editors, 82 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,780 which is something that I could learn from this experience. 83 00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:20,970 That's not something that's common everywhere. 84 00:09:20,980 --> 00:09:30,330 So many journalists struggle with the lack of supports and and attention from their teams or their managers in different newsrooms. 85 00:09:30,690 --> 00:09:38,790 So our investigations, they try to shed light on the impact of global food production on the environment and as we know, 86 00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:42,629 is something that's often overlooked when we talk about emissions. 87 00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:55,290 Right. But this experience gave me perspective and made me and made me think a lot about how we can convey the message, for example. 88 00:09:55,590 --> 00:10:02,970 So it really opened my eyes to the fact that we we have to try and test an experiment 89 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:11,100 with no formats to actually engage people and catch their attention in a world where, 90 00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:23,190 well, attention is is this is this golden coin, you know, that's not easily trade traded because we have so many stimulus everywhere. 91 00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:28,360 And catching people's attention is is increasingly more difficult. 92 00:10:28,380 --> 00:10:36,210 So I think my it changed my approach in the way I think about how to wrap up my stories and my investigations, how to deliver them. 93 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:44,000 I think this was this was my main takeaway. Thanks for that vision, Ethan. 94 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:49,510 Do you have any? Sure. Although it's hard to follow what Angela said. 95 00:10:49,510 --> 00:10:56,680 But as she said, the chorus really got us to think about how we can experiment with the ways that we tell our stories. 96 00:10:57,370 --> 00:11:05,319 For example, I think near the end of our six year programme, a six month programme, we had an audio storytelling workshop, 97 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,389 I think with Jessica that was very interesting to me because up until that point, 98 00:11:10,390 --> 00:11:17,469 a lot of climate reporters have told us that climate change is first and foremost a visual story. 99 00:11:17,470 --> 00:11:26,680 So often the way we imagine climate change is when we see photographs or videos of disasters, floods, tsunamis, etc. 100 00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:34,479 So that workshop really opened my eyes in how we can use audio in being able to connect 101 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:40,360 deeper with our audiences in ways that photographs or videos may not be able to do that. 102 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,950 In fact, up until that point, I did not really think about how. 103 00:11:45,950 --> 00:11:52,840 Viscerally powerful audio can be hearing the voices of disaster victims talk about sorry, 104 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:59,240 disaster survivors talk about their experiences and their resolve to move forward. 105 00:11:59,810 --> 00:12:04,800 The use of background music or natural sound to hype and affect telling the stories. 106 00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:09,650 I personally have not yet explored audio storytelling, so moving forward, 107 00:12:09,650 --> 00:12:15,650 a plan to use that and incorporate that into climate reporting I will be doing with a newsroom. 108 00:12:17,790 --> 00:12:20,729 Yeah, I love that. I love the torture as well. 109 00:12:20,730 --> 00:12:27,900 And I love having Jessica's voice coming in in Portuguese in a way that doesn't come into the into the conversations in English and just Yeah. 110 00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:33,060 Seen the variety of languages, people working in the network as well, which was really brilliant. 111 00:12:33,930 --> 00:12:41,309 How about you then? Yeah, I think I'd say once again a lot to follow, although not everything that has been said already. 112 00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:53,250 But I think I did also have the takeaway that the climate crisis sort of does intersect with so many other issues. 113 00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:59,430 In South Africa, we have political issues, corruption, energy security issues, 114 00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:06,600 rampant criminality and all of these issues that that that would otherwise crowd out the tension. 115 00:13:07,290 --> 00:13:13,260 As Angela mentioned, you know, attention is a commodity, essentially, and it's hard to. 116 00:13:14,780 --> 00:13:26,120 Grab that. And especially with climate change in in South Africa, it's seen as something that is a problem for future generations. 117 00:13:26,630 --> 00:13:35,420 Maybe not so much recently. I think it is being appreciated more for the threat that it is today. 118 00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:41,900 But there's so many issues that are happening today right now that are visible. 119 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,370 People are die children on dining taverns. I'm sure you've seen that news. 120 00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:52,870 It's all over the world. There's so many things that people. 121 00:13:54,390 --> 00:14:01,950 Understandably would focus on rather than this idea of the weather being more dangerous 122 00:14:01,950 --> 00:14:09,240 or there being these climatic impacts or farming in the future being unsustainable. 123 00:14:09,570 --> 00:14:13,500 Impossible. So. Linking. 124 00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:24,820 Our activities of the day. And the stories of today with the into the climate nexus and allies and the importance and that it's possible. 125 00:14:24,820 --> 00:14:28,810 And the possibility of doing that, I think, has been very good for me. 126 00:14:29,830 --> 00:14:37,780 So now I can write the story about our power loadshedding, which is basically rolling blackouts that South Africa has, 127 00:14:37,780 --> 00:14:41,380 where we don't have enough energy and the power goes out. 128 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:50,380 There's a political nexus, but there's also an environmental connexion because it's related to our coal power and all of this. 129 00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:59,170 So I think, though, the network has been really good in helping me to think of creative ways to. 130 00:15:01,540 --> 00:15:11,710 Claw back some of that attention that would otherwise be spread out amongst the myriad other issues in South Africa as. 131 00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:13,370 Yeah. 132 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:23,340 I mean, an issue we had in the semester was how do we connect climate coverage with, for instance, the war in Ukraine, which was overtaking coverage? 133 00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:26,819 You know, all the things I remember like several of our members, including you, 134 00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:31,440 even where we look at at some point to cover the war in Ukraine out of your usual beat, 135 00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:40,530 because there was just too much going on there that needed our attention as newsrooms and extension issues to challenge as we cover climate change, 136 00:15:40,530 --> 00:15:46,780 how we connect climate change with all these were happening right now. You discuss the three of you, the network and the members. 137 00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:51,520 And I think Angela mentioned also the community and in our piece were published yesterday at the Institute, 138 00:15:52,630 --> 00:15:56,950 we discussed the value of positive communities in journalism. 139 00:15:57,870 --> 00:16:06,630 And I wanted to ask, in your view and your experience, why is having a community relevant or important when covering climate change for reporters? 140 00:16:08,140 --> 00:16:14,890 It's a tough one. I think that. Uh, just generally, I think. 141 00:16:16,510 --> 00:16:21,270 If you mean like having a community, we can't operate in silos. 142 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:26,110 First of all, I think just this just goes back to my previous point about how. 143 00:16:28,650 --> 00:16:32,760 Interlinked these issues all and then. 144 00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:42,980 Trying to take on all of this. All of the egos and dealing with the egos and the stresses of. 145 00:16:45,060 --> 00:16:53,670 Trying to process the complexity of the climate crisis and just the general news environment. 146 00:16:54,030 --> 00:17:03,560 It's important to have these three sources that you can refer to for whatever your needs or I. 147 00:17:03,570 --> 00:17:11,220 I'm not sure exactly how I would be able to articulate this, but I think it is important. 148 00:17:13,540 --> 00:17:27,350 Great. Thank you. You can go ahead. But he said, I think communities are important for obvious reasons because they help provide support. 149 00:17:27,530 --> 00:17:31,700 The journalist for covering one of the toughest subjects in the world. 150 00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:37,219 We're living in a place where there are a lot of communities, 151 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:42,200 other groups that believe that climate change is not real, that it's a conspiracy theory. 152 00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:48,530 And sometimes they go so far as to try to undermine the work that we do. 153 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:59,870 And not to mention corporations or lobbyists that engage in greenwashing, those who wish to evade accountability for the climate crisis. 154 00:18:00,290 --> 00:18:08,480 And there have been many reports that environmental defenders and environmental journalists are often at risk in the line of duty because of this. 155 00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:14,630 So obviously, having communities is a big help because then you'd have people who would champion your work, 156 00:18:15,170 --> 00:18:18,710 amplify and broaden the reach of your stories, and vice versa. 157 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:25,610 And I think that such communities do not necessarily be exclusive only to journalists. 158 00:18:26,030 --> 00:18:29,690 You can have environmental activists in that community, 159 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:36,620 fellow environmental defenders or other community organisers who can also help champion the work that we do. 160 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:44,840 So essentially, communities are great if you want to have people who have your back, and that can be a huge relief in the kind of work that we do. 161 00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:50,090 Yeah, this is a really important Chris. Yeah, I completely agree. 162 00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:55,280 I think as journalists, we have this mammoth challenge ahead of us. 163 00:18:56,180 --> 00:19:00,290 Right. So covering cover in a climate crisis is a high stakes task. 164 00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:05,059 But we are also people. Although some people would disagree. 165 00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:09,200 But journalists are also people. And we also feel hopeless sometimes. 166 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,000 We also feel frustrated with politicians and their blah, blah, blah. 167 00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:21,980 Sometimes the lack of engagement of our audience really hurts us because we feel powerless. 168 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:32,300 So having having a community and having peers who are there for you and and help you find your centre, I think is key. 169 00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:42,290 So during this this experience with the Oxford Climate Journalism Network, we had this brilliant surprise. 170 00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:49,190 Well, at least it was really surprising to me that we had a session on on mental health, 171 00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:58,190 for example, and it was a session where we shared our pains and our vulnerabilities openly. 172 00:19:58,580 --> 00:20:04,729 So it was a it was an experience that really made it clear how how as journalists, 173 00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:15,650 we lack a strong community and how this interaction and having peers to talk about the issues that we all face is so important. 174 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:23,330 So what's the importance of community? All its utmost importance, a thing to have as journalists? 175 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,610 Yeah. That section on mental health is one of my favourites for this semester. 176 00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:37,380 It really brought home the sense that this is a shared experience by many of the reporters in the network. 177 00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:42,180 All of them, I think. And that was also so nicely grounded on science. 178 00:20:42,180 --> 00:20:49,049 So if Einstein brought his evidence and he was very empathetic, but also very same space, and I really liked that. 179 00:20:49,050 --> 00:20:54,180 And I want to ask you, what was your favourite session or moment or fireside chats? 180 00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:58,410 Because we had different kinds of workshops with fireside chats, with seminars. 181 00:20:58,980 --> 00:21:03,540 Out of the sessions we had in the six months. Which one do you enjoy the most? 182 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:12,469 I think the mental health session was was one of my favourites, 183 00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:21,650 but I really liked the engagement with the fireside chat that we have about politics and climate change. 184 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:28,870 So the polarisation of climate change that we had and everybody was very energetic and engaged with with the discussion. 185 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,590 So I learnt a lot because, you know, 186 00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:44,780 I could understand how different countries face similar issues with the polarisation of the climate crisis and how the elections play. 187 00:21:44,780 --> 00:21:49,730 A very important role will play a very important role to the future. 188 00:21:50,540 --> 00:22:01,820 So these were one of my well, two of my favourites, but I really liked the climate justice session as well, so it was really, really powerful. 189 00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:08,360 You think Angela and I share the same favourite glasses? 190 00:22:08,370 --> 00:22:16,319 Do I? I think the reason why the mental health scores resonated with a lot of us was because for the entire six months, 191 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,680 a lot of the courses were geared towards how do we better improve our reporting? 192 00:22:21,690 --> 00:22:30,270 And then suddenly there's this course that let's just look into ourselves and ask us to assess how the reporting is impacting us. 193 00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:38,940 So it really hit close to home, and I guess that's the reason why it was one of the most impactful seminars at the impact. 194 00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:43,559 And as I mentioned, I particularly like also the idea of storytelling workshop because I really like 195 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:49,110 it when journalists share the ways that they've experimented with storytelling. 196 00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:53,150 And of course, it's really it's really inspiring to hear from one of our classmates, 197 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,690 not from one of the lecturers that were invited to speak for the programme, 198 00:22:57,690 --> 00:23:05,790 just to hear how our own classmates have been dealing with the challenges of reporting climate change to their audiences. 199 00:23:06,550 --> 00:23:15,450 And once again, not much to add, but all that mental health for me was, was, was, was really good for the reasons outlined. 200 00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:22,500 It was just so important to just take stock of where you are mentally. 201 00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:26,400 And it was was it was really affirming, quite frankly, 202 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:42,690 to just know that so many of my colleagues are experiencing similar mental states and that go through these challenges and that feelings and, 203 00:23:42,690 --> 00:23:52,649 and the actions to events and news and the process of news is it's normal to to have that affirmation 204 00:23:52,650 --> 00:23:58,020 was was was really nice but once again image it also to just say this I enjoyed attribution. 205 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:08,760 You mentioned you thought that was amazing just because I went in there unsure, uncertain about what I was going to learn or what? 206 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:19,409 Not exactly. Obviously I'd done the readings, but just the whole process of of learning about attribution was something that was completely new to me. 207 00:24:19,410 --> 00:24:27,150 Like I was so focussed on understanding the science of climate change and climate justice and climate finance and all these other things. 208 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,890 And in my time prior to joining the the network, 209 00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:39,000 but then going through that and being confronted with the attribution and just like seeing 210 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,100 this whole other aspect of science I didn't even realise had developed to this point. 211 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:53,790 And then finding out that I had a role in, in my own country, for example, with the city I'm in right now, Cape Town, 212 00:24:54,210 --> 00:25:05,550 we had a major drought that was called Day Zero, which is basically at the point at which we would no longer be able to caption it on empty. 213 00:25:05,550 --> 00:25:10,650 Basically, we no longer have water, the first major city in the world to completely out of water. 214 00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:22,379 And that was a threat. And then I found out later through an attribution study, determined that that was made more likely because of climate change. 215 00:25:22,380 --> 00:25:25,920 So I mean, it was a full a full circle for me. 216 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:32,850 I learnt about it and then realised I was a case study. 217 00:25:32,850 --> 00:25:36,090 I suppose so, yeah. There was a lot, a lot to. 218 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,990 It's fascinating. I actually I've felt for years that climate science will, like, settled in a way. 219 00:25:44,030 --> 00:25:47,210 And when retribution came along and listen to the audio, I was like. 220 00:25:48,190 --> 00:25:51,759 Holy. That's just more can come in. I mean, this is a fantastic step. 221 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:59,530 And her action was amazing for this role. And yeah, the one from Jessica meyers from follows up on all the storytelling. 222 00:26:00,310 --> 00:26:05,440 Yeah, it really shows the way you can bring story to a new format. 223 00:26:05,740 --> 00:26:10,870 As you said. I want to wrap up with your views on how can. 224 00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:15,100 What? How can journalism improve its coverage of climate change? 225 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:21,590 If you have something to share with other reporters covering climate change, what do they need to know? 226 00:26:21,610 --> 00:26:29,390 How can we how can we make it better? I think one of the main takeaways I've learnt from discourse is that. 227 00:26:30,350 --> 00:26:34,880 Climate change reporting need not be an overwhelming experience. 228 00:26:35,330 --> 00:26:38,440 So of course, it always has to be rooted in the science. 229 00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:45,499 And we always hope that the stories that we do, they do help for policies and programmes that will help resolve the crisis. 230 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:48,530 But it is first and foremost a human story. 231 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:55,610 And I think that's why we've taken so much faith in understanding the intersections of climate change, 232 00:26:56,690 --> 00:27:04,410 not just the difficult aspects of climate negotiations, but like how climate change intersects with human experience. 233 00:27:04,430 --> 00:27:12,440 So I think as soon as reporters understand how systems and structures can 234 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,049 either make a community resilient or vulnerable to climate related disasters, 235 00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:21,290 then the better the storytelling will become. 236 00:27:22,370 --> 00:27:26,359 Yeah, I agree with Krista. 237 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:31,430 I think humanising the coverage of climate change is key, 238 00:27:31,940 --> 00:27:39,799 but I would add that we should we should rely on data and research on how the 239 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,560 audience reacts to climate reporting to make our our own editorial decisions. 240 00:27:46,340 --> 00:27:51,740 So we know that there is climate fatigue fatigue with people avoiding this type of news. 241 00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:54,140 And we have to respond to that. 242 00:27:54,530 --> 00:28:07,249 I think I think we all feel as humans, we feel that well, we prefer to engage with threatening information if there's also a solution attached to it. 243 00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:13,040 If a solution is provided or a way to address the problem is also provided. 244 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:23,690 So maybe, maybe we should also think about always inserting some ideas on how to fix these problems when we talk about it. 245 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:36,530 Maybe this is a long answer to say that solutions journalism may be maybe a way of of improving our coverage of climate change, in my view. 246 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,290 Thanks for this, Angela. How do you even. Yeah. 247 00:28:42,350 --> 00:28:56,800 Just to add on what has really been said, I think the 17 people and the impact on on lives and is is is very important. 248 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:06,170 I think I think a lot of it can get caught up in the science and the the projected impacts. 249 00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:14,750 But it's important to centre how this is going to impact people. 250 00:29:16,130 --> 00:29:22,280 Who the most most vulnerable amongst us and not only the most vulnerable, but that is the case, 251 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:28,850 I suppose, if you are reporting from the Global South or South Africa, as in my case. 252 00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:36,920 But I think. If you if you focus on if you should if you highlight those voices, 253 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:49,940 I think that does a lot of people tend to connect with the stories of others more than scientific or physical abstractions of science and. 254 00:29:51,090 --> 00:29:57,640 I think another thing that we should. Be be wary of, as Jones is to. 255 00:29:58,850 --> 00:30:06,260 The dumbest. I don't know if that's a word, but if we if we write about. 256 00:30:07,310 --> 00:30:10,600 Make make every article seem like doom and gloom. 257 00:30:10,610 --> 00:30:16,110 It does sort of. Turn people off of of the journalism. 258 00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:18,390 And I think there are ways to do that. 259 00:30:18,410 --> 00:30:27,840 It might be just adjusting your frame to maybe it doesn't necessarily have to be solutions journalism, but it can be. 260 00:30:28,380 --> 00:30:37,200 I think one of the ways to do that is instead of saying this is the world is going to be way hotter and the sea levels are going to rise, 261 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,890 draw the taps, frame it in a way that says, 262 00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:52,280 but we could also have a world where we have abandon to renewable energy and a world that's hyperconnected and they provide with green energy. 263 00:30:52,290 --> 00:30:56,550 Those are equally possible realities. 264 00:30:57,940 --> 00:31:01,300 That all depends on the decisions we make today. 265 00:31:03,010 --> 00:31:10,930 So I think it's how we frame things that is important and just always trying to. 266 00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:22,950 Gear authorities and and I'll focus towards the people who are all impacted, who are going to be impacted, how they're going to be impacted. 267 00:31:23,050 --> 00:31:29,400 And then you've got to show people, your audience, why this is important. 268 00:31:29,490 --> 00:31:32,850 You got to tell them why this is important, how this is going to affect them. 269 00:31:32,970 --> 00:31:36,330 And I think the work will do the rest. 270 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,080 Just. Sorry, just one thing that came to my mind when Ethan was mentioning this. 271 00:31:43,100 --> 00:31:49,100 How we frame this problem is that I think we were discussing this in the group 272 00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:56,390 and with the other fellows some days ago about the cover of some newspapers, 273 00:31:56,690 --> 00:32:02,510 how they are covering the heat wave in Europe and the selection of pictures. 274 00:32:03,140 --> 00:32:10,550 This time is starting to feel more to feel different from what what has been done historically. 275 00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:24,350 So usually newspapers bring people, you know, at the beach enjoying the sun during a heat wave, as, you know, as an example of of well, 276 00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:30,380 use this pictures to show and to cover the crisis, to cover these extreme events, 277 00:32:31,010 --> 00:32:37,190 whilst now we start to see some newspapers changing the mindset about it. 278 00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:41,030 So they The Guardian, for example, was well, 279 00:32:41,030 --> 00:32:48,640 brought a selection of pictures like a mosaic of pictures on people actually struggling with the heat wave in Europe. 280 00:32:48,650 --> 00:32:55,129 So people suffering with the extreme weather to to show that this is a real problem. 281 00:32:55,130 --> 00:32:58,220 So I think we have a lot to be done. 282 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,559 We have a lot to do, but things are starting to change. 283 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:10,010 And I think we also have to look into things more optimistically, I guess. 284 00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:16,220 And I can see that there is a there's a will to change the way that we frame this. 285 00:33:16,730 --> 00:33:22,790 So so it's it's it's good to see these examples, you know. 286 00:33:23,850 --> 00:33:30,150 Just to add to what Angela said, actually, that was what I wanted to talk about earlier, that, you know, 287 00:33:30,180 --> 00:33:39,240 from what I've noticed from our discussions in the past six months is that journalists already know how to improve climate coverage. 288 00:33:39,390 --> 00:33:48,540 We've made it multimedia. We've lessened the jargon. We've explored a lot of formats to make it more relatable to engaging for audiences. 289 00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:57,209 But I think what has to be done now is how do we engage our newsroom managers and get them on the same page? 290 00:33:57,210 --> 00:34:04,700 Because we get to produce all the best reporting that we can produce massive, earth shattering investigations all we want. 291 00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:08,340 But if our newsrooms do not provide institutional support, 292 00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:15,690 if they carry on with the traditional way of framing climate change, then we might never get anywhere. 293 00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:22,410 So I think both E.J. and I already made moves so that I think, if I remember correctly, 294 00:34:22,410 --> 00:34:30,479 the applications for the cohort specifically also called for newsroom managers or people who make institutional decisions inside the newsrooms. 295 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,190 And I think that's one great way of involving the decision makers and get them on the 296 00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:40,139 table so that they can better understand how urgent and how important the story is, 297 00:34:40,140 --> 00:34:47,060 so that the journalists who actually cover climate change can get the story that they need and produce the stories that they have to do. 298 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,570 I'm going to leave with that idea of letting go of the newsroom managers and the decision makers, 299 00:34:52,290 --> 00:34:58,710 because in the end, we need to restructure the way we conceive newsrooms and the way you approach climate coverage. 300 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,640 But I also want to take two other ideas. City of the Century and people's. 301 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:12,090 Deeply. People stories are climate stories, and at least Angela's metaphor of like using binoculars to just look into the future of journalism 302 00:35:12,660 --> 00:35:17,400 that this is this is ideally how it looks like having reporters from every desk and every field. 303 00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:25,300 Interested in covering climate change. Thank you. Even Angela and Fisher for joining us today is fantastic to have us here. 304 00:35:25,310 --> 00:35:29,540 Podcast. Thank you so much for having us and we look forward to the podcast. 305 00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:33,920 Thank you so much. It was a great, great pleasure to speak to you today. 306 00:35:35,740 --> 00:35:37,720 Thanks. Thanks for the was a pleasure. 307 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:44,090 Our guest today where it Angela mendoza and the environmental reporter with the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. 308 00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:47,959 Ethan Redmon, a journalist for the Daily Maverick in South Africa. 309 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,040 And just looking to being a reporter for the Philippine Daily Enquirer's in the Philippines. 310 00:35:52,460 --> 00:35:59,480 If you're interested in joining the Offshore Climate Journals Network, we will open our application for our general report in September. 311 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,540 Follow social media of the word institute if you want to find out more. Thank you all for listening to this episode. 312 00:36:05,570 --> 00:36:09,709 You can catch up on other episodes from Spotify or Apple Podcasts or whatever. 313 00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:13,640 You get your podcasts and if you don't want to miss any news from the institute, 314 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,320 you can subscribe to our newsletter by clicking the link on our Twitter bio or on our homepage. 315 00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:22,970 This was a feature of journalism, a podcast by the Reuters Institute. 316 00:36:23,180 --> 00:36:26,000 I am the go to guy, so this will be good. Thank you.