1 00:00:01,340 --> 00:00:04,640 Right. We'll get going now. Thank you very much for joining this morning. 2 00:00:04,970 --> 00:00:11,240 Joining us this morning, this is the last of our mental wellness series that we've been hosting from 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,540 the Department of Experimental Psychology here at the University of Oxford. 4 00:00:15,110 --> 00:00:23,510 My name's Cathy Creswell and I'm based here in the Department of Experimental Psychology, and I've been really enjoying presenting this series. 5 00:00:23,750 --> 00:00:30,230 If you haven't joined us before, please do have a look at our YouTube channel for the Department of Experimental Psychology, 6 00:00:30,470 --> 00:00:32,990 where you'll find all of the previous talks in the series. 7 00:00:33,260 --> 00:00:39,889 And they include a really broad range of topics, including coping with trauma, depression, low mood, sleep problems, 8 00:00:39,890 --> 00:00:47,030 stress and anxiety, grief, a range of other topics that we hope will be helpful for you and people that you may know. 9 00:00:47,930 --> 00:00:51,530 And just a few other things, bits of housekeeping to say. 10 00:00:51,770 --> 00:00:57,020 And the session will run till 10:45. We encourage you to take a break after the session. 11 00:00:57,020 --> 00:01:02,089 Sometimes the sessions do raise lots of thoughts and feelings for people. 12 00:01:02,090 --> 00:01:05,630 So please do take a break, reach out to people should you need to. 13 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:11,000 We'll also ask you to complete some feedback at the end. So we'd be really grateful if you could do that. 14 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:13,489 And also, as you listen we'll be recording 15 00:01:13,490 --> 00:01:19,940 this session and it will also be shared on our YouTube channel and we're also live on YouTube as well. 16 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:24,379 We're delighted today to be joined by Dr. Hannah Murray, 17 00:01:24,380 --> 00:01:28,730 who is a Research clinical psychologist in the Oxford Centre for Anxiety Disorders 18 00:01:28,730 --> 00:01:32,210 and Trauma in the Department of Experimental Psychology in Oxford. 19 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,950 And Hannah has particular expertise in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder and 20 00:01:36,950 --> 00:01:42,140 will be talking to us today about understanding and managing troubling mental images. 21 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,509 And I'll be handing over to Hannah shortly 22 00:01:44,510 --> 00:01:51,590 but just to let you know that after Hannah's presentation, we'll have time for some questions that people have submitted in advance. 23 00:01:51,860 --> 00:01:58,960 But as this is all our session, we also are going to open up the chat so that people are able to ask questions in there too. 24 00:01:59,180 --> 00:02:04,729 So please do put anything that you would like to ask Hannah in the chat as she's speaking or afterwards. 25 00:02:04,730 --> 00:02:07,760 And we'll try to get through as many of your questions as we can. 26 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:12,320 But without further ado, I'm delighted now to hand over to Hannah Murray. 27 00:02:12,350 --> 00:02:17,230 Thanks, Hannah. Thanks, Cathy, and thank you all for joining. 28 00:02:17,790 --> 00:02:21,540 I'm just going to share my slides. 29 00:02:27,290 --> 00:02:32,240 Hopefully you can all see that. So good morning and welcome. 30 00:02:32,250 --> 00:02:33,620 Thanks for joining us today. 31 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:41,210 And as Cathy says, I'm going to talk about mental imagery and particularly the troubling mental images that people might have, 32 00:02:41,570 --> 00:02:46,670 which I think is a topic that kind of cuts across a lot of different psychological disorders, 33 00:02:46,670 --> 00:02:51,020 is all talk about, but also things that can affect all of us from time to time. 34 00:02:52,340 --> 00:02:55,640 So a little bit about what I want to cover. First of all 35 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:03,680 I'll talk briefly about why mental images are important, mental images in psychological disorders and therefore also in their treatment. 36 00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:10,370 And then I'll talk a bit about how we can transform mental images, both clinically and for ourselves. 37 00:03:11,540 --> 00:03:17,150 So I hope that sounds all right. So, first of all, why are mental images important? 38 00:03:17,510 --> 00:03:21,740 Well, let's try a little test of this. Which of these makes you hungrier? 39 00:03:21,770 --> 00:03:26,090 The word cake for me. Or me saying cake or an image or a cake. 40 00:03:27,860 --> 00:03:33,980 How about this? What makes you more anxious? The word height or an image of a high place? 41 00:03:34,460 --> 00:03:42,800 It's probably the latter, because usually images have much more of a kind of powerful connexion to our emotional responses than words do on their own. 42 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:50,270 And this is something that's been demonstrated experimentally. This really lovely study by Amy Holmes and and colleagues, 43 00:03:50,600 --> 00:04:00,770 where they gave people a word and an image and asked them to combine them either in an image in their mind or in a sentence. 44 00:04:01,670 --> 00:04:03,590 And the words were either positive or negative. 45 00:04:03,980 --> 00:04:11,750 So, for example, the words sync with a picture of someone swimming in a lake or a positive word or a neutral word, 46 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:14,840 benign word like swim and the picture of someone in the lake. 47 00:04:15,650 --> 00:04:20,630 And you combine those either into an image, a picture in your own mind, or in a sentence. 48 00:04:21,230 --> 00:04:28,090 And what they found was when their participants combined them into an image, had a much more powerful impact on their anxiety, 49 00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:33,850 they felt much more anxious with those negative words and certainly with the benign words. 50 00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:37,340 It had a much more powerful impact in terms of reducing their anxiety. 51 00:04:38,210 --> 00:04:44,960 So we think that images have a really powerful connexion to our emotions and probably one that's more powerful than words. 52 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:54,460 And when we think about what's happening in our brains when we imagine something, it's actually very similar to when we perceive it in real life. 53 00:04:55,510 --> 00:04:58,500 You wouldn't have time to look at the scans and lots of detail, 54 00:04:58,510 --> 00:05:06,460 but this is from an FMRI study where they ask people to imagine an object and then they show them pictures of the same object. 55 00:05:06,730 --> 00:05:12,340 And if you look at the subject subtraction and they use those images, the different parts of the brain, 56 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:20,230 you can see that almost exactly the same parts of the brain light up when we imagine something as to when we directly perceive it, 57 00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:27,160 probably our imagination as a sort of subset of the same processes that happen in our brain 58 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,220 then when we actually see something in real life. 59 00:05:33,510 --> 00:05:45,000 And we can also demonstrate this ourselves so we can do a little exercise for a moment. If you feel comfortable to just close your eyes for me. 60 00:05:46,010 --> 00:05:55,730 And I want you to imagine that you're getting home from work at the end of the day and walking in your front door of your home. 61 00:05:57,590 --> 00:06:08,150 So just imagine opening the door and pushing it open, stepping inside, and what you could see around you as you enter your home, 62 00:06:08,990 --> 00:06:12,530 what you can smell, maybe any sounds that you can hear. 63 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:16,070 Try to bring that into your mind's eye and your mind's ear. 64 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:23,060 Maybe take off your shoes and feel the floor feels like home to your feet. 65 00:06:25,990 --> 00:06:29,560 And then I want you to imagine walking to your kitchen. 66 00:06:31,630 --> 00:06:38,440 And again, pause there, have a look around, what you can see, what you can smell, what the temperature is like. 67 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:49,730 And walk over to your fridge. And I want you to open your fridge and notice the changing temperature and take out a lemon. 68 00:06:51,330 --> 00:06:58,590 And then carrying that to a chopping board, pick up a knife and cut it into four segments. 69 00:07:01,750 --> 00:07:09,520 And then I want you to imagine picking up one of those segments of lemon and just notice how it feels in your fingers, 70 00:07:10,450 --> 00:07:15,829 waxy surface, what the flesh looks like. Inhale it. Have a little smell. 71 00:07:15,830 --> 00:07:23,900 Now, what does that smell like? And then I want you to imagine taking a bite into that memory segment. 72 00:07:29,130 --> 00:07:35,410 So you can open your eyes. I imagine for some of you that exercise would have been quite easy. 73 00:07:35,410 --> 00:07:39,670 You'd have been able to generate a kind of quite powerful mental image. For others 74 00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:41,050 it might be a little bit harder, 75 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:49,060 and that's just because it's a sort of natural variation in the population in terms of how readily we can generate powerful mental images. 76 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,350 But for those of you who were able to get a strong mental image, 77 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:59,670 you might have noticed that when you bit into the lemon, you've got some sort of physical impact of that, 78 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:06,520 Your mouth might have even started to water a little bit where you might felt a bit of that kind of impact the sourness as the lemon. 79 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,120 And that's because, as I said earlier, 80 00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:17,240 our brain is kind of responding to mental imagery in much the same way that it does two things that we're directly perceiving in real life. 81 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,190 And that's why it can be so powerful. 82 00:08:19,190 --> 00:08:26,210 It can affect on a sort of physiological state, like making the saliva come into your mouth and it can also affect our behaviour. 83 00:08:27,870 --> 00:08:31,650 And you know, I've talked many so far about sort of visual imagery. 84 00:08:31,950 --> 00:08:37,890 The imagery, of course, is multi-sensory. And the same thing would happen if we did something that tapped into all the auditory imagery. 85 00:08:38,340 --> 00:08:42,470 So, for example, if I played you a song and a familiar song to you, 86 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,640 and then I asked you to play that song back in your head again and listen to it with 87 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:57,380 your mind's ear, as it were, you would be able to kind of hear that song almost as powerfully as you can hear it 88 00:08:57,390 --> 00:09:02,670 when I play it to you in real life and the same bits of your brain would light up and you might even 89 00:09:02,670 --> 00:09:07,140 notice yourself doing things like taking an intake of breath as if you going to sing something, 90 00:09:07,290 --> 00:09:11,910 even though you're only playing it in your imagination so that your your mind is kind of 91 00:09:12,090 --> 00:09:16,320 giving you the same cues to behave as it does when you see something in real life. 92 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:20,350 And of course, this is colonist in lots of twisted ways. 93 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:29,490 And for example, in sports psychology, the power of visualisation is recognised that when we are going to compete in a major event, 94 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:34,950 we often rehearse over and over again it going well and how or what went wrong 95 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:41,280 and that kind of has a powerful impact on behaviour that can improve our performance. 96 00:09:42,580 --> 00:09:50,290 Okay. So hopefully I've convince you that mental imagery is important and that it's powerful and that can affect both our body and our behaviour. 97 00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:54,670 So let's talk a little bit in psychological disorders. 98 00:09:55,540 --> 00:10:02,800 So I work on post-traumatic stress disorder, as Cathy said, and mental imagery obviously plays a huge role in this disorder. 99 00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:08,770 You know, people have been experiencing symptoms of traumas that they've suffered that 100 00:10:08,770 --> 00:10:13,300 come into their mind with powerfully in flashbacks and images and nightmares. 101 00:10:14,410 --> 00:10:20,200 And a lot of those images will be memories, but some of them will also be images that have sort of changed over time. 102 00:10:20,530 --> 00:10:21,249 So, for example, 103 00:10:21,250 --> 00:10:27,400 in nightmares, there's often input from other things that have happened in our lives or the story of the trauma might be told in different ways. 104 00:10:27,670 --> 00:10:31,090 The emotional experience is the same, but the imagery might be quite different. 105 00:10:31,930 --> 00:10:41,739 And also what we find in post-traumatic stress disorder is sometimes people have images where they didn't necessarily directly experience something themselves, 106 00:10:41,740 --> 00:10:46,600 but perhaps have learnt about it and have generated images of what that might have been like. 107 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:50,830 So for example, learning that someone has died who was close to them. 108 00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:52,720 They might have imagined what that was like. 109 00:10:53,230 --> 00:10:58,360 And then those images, which we would sometimes call constructed images, can become intrusive in their own right. 110 00:10:59,780 --> 00:11:02,750 So imagery is really important for post-traumatic stress disorder. 111 00:11:03,260 --> 00:11:08,180 But actually, a lot of evidence now is showing that imagery is really important and other disorders. 112 00:11:08,510 --> 00:11:15,110 So, for example, in social anxiety disorder, people are often plagued by images of their worst fears. 113 00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:23,749 You know, they might, during a social encounter, have an image of how they might be coming across in their brain, in their mind, 114 00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:29,330 which is a kind of worst case scenario, for example, that they are bright red or that they're sweating, 115 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,360 that they look terribly nervous, or with their face distorted. 116 00:11:32,990 --> 00:11:35,190 And they might also get images from the past as well. 117 00:11:35,210 --> 00:11:42,980 So what we call kind of socially traumatic events, not quite the same as PTSD, but times in the past where something has gone bad, 118 00:11:43,610 --> 00:11:47,480 badly wrong socially, whether they've been humiliated or bullied or something like that. 119 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:54,250 These images might break in when they're in social situations. And in other countries as well, phobias. 120 00:11:54,250 --> 00:11:58,450 People typically have images of kind of the worst version of the thing that they're 121 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,830 afraid of that come to mind or fearful of what we would call flash forwards, 122 00:12:02,830 --> 00:12:05,440 which is kind of imagining something in the future. 123 00:12:05,710 --> 00:12:12,580 So like with a spider phobic, I think it might be a things like getting caught up in their hair, or under their clothes or something, 124 00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:15,969 something which hasn't actually happened to them, but that they can imagine, 125 00:12:15,970 --> 00:12:20,580 then that generates a kind of little fear for any sort of focus out there. 126 00:12:21,020 --> 00:12:28,900 JT The that obsessive compulsive disorder, people commonly get sort of images that fit with their false sense. 127 00:12:29,140 --> 00:12:37,240 So for example, that contamination, they might almost feel as if they can sort of imagine their body crawling with germs, 128 00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:44,260 or dirt in some way, they might also get fearful images of the things that they fear happening or things that they fear doing, 129 00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:50,650 like harming other people and so on. So images are important, you know, I've mentioned a few, 130 00:12:50,650 --> 00:12:57,130 but actually in probably the full range of psychological disorders across a lot of these different things that we work with clinically. 131 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:04,270 And they might exist in different forms. You know, they might be memories, they might be flash forwards, they might be constructions, 132 00:13:04,270 --> 00:13:10,330 things that we generated from our own imagination, which can be very concerning or frightening. 133 00:13:10,750 --> 00:13:17,920 And they might be what I'm calling kind of defining self images, which is where we develop an image of our selves, 134 00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:25,810 which it sort of comes to really dominate the way that we view ourselves in some way. 135 00:13:27,010 --> 00:13:32,380 And that might be driven some negative experiences in the past. It might be from thoughts that we have about ourselves. 136 00:13:34,950 --> 00:13:38,880 And when we think about sort of what keeps psychological disorders going, 137 00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:46,830 it might be that those images and the beliefs that they're associated with have a very close relationship and a bi directional imagination. 138 00:13:47,550 --> 00:13:52,830 So, for example, this would be a pretty dysmorphic type feeling that you're very ugly, 139 00:13:52,830 --> 00:13:56,580 that you've got an enormous nose, for example, that other people think the same way. 140 00:13:57,180 --> 00:14:03,180 If you think that about myself, you're likely to spontaneously generate images, for example, of the size of your nose. 141 00:14:03,660 --> 00:14:09,030 And of course, the more you have those kind of images, the more it's going to fuel that belief about themselves that this is true. 142 00:14:09,270 --> 00:14:16,980 It really sort of consolidates those self beliefs. So images and beliefs have this kind of mutually maintaining relationship. 143 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:25,270 And similarly, the way that we cope with images might form a big part of certain psychological disorders. 144 00:14:26,260 --> 00:14:32,710 So typically when images are negative or unpleasant, distressing, what we're going to try to do is get rid of them in some way. 145 00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:39,220 So, for example, this would be a typical kind of OCD type thought or image. 146 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,490 If you have an image of when a train is coming to a platform, 147 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:47,379 you just get this image in your head of pushing something in front of the train, one day jumping in front of the training. 148 00:14:47,380 --> 00:14:53,350 So which, by the way, is a really common image. A lot of people get that when they're standing on a train platform. 149 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,840 But if the way that you cope with that thought coming into your mind is to start changing behaviour, 150 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:04,450 thinking, okay, it's unsafe for me to go to train stations because I might actually act on this. 151 00:15:04,690 --> 00:15:11,770 So I'm going to avoid stations. I might ruminate all the time on what this means about me as a person, and I might try to push that image away. 152 00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:16,960 And one thing we know about images is usually the more which one pushed out of our mind. 153 00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:21,070 Actually, the way the more they can come back in is called the rebound effect. 154 00:15:21,370 --> 00:15:27,220 If you have a try, really trying hard not to think about something often it's the only thing that you can think about. 155 00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:33,490 So these types of behaviours will then maintain not only in not only the images, 156 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:38,889 but also these beliefs that people have about this, about themselves and these kind of relationships. 157 00:15:38,890 --> 00:15:43,629 These types of vicious cycles form a big part of psychological disorders. 158 00:15:43,630 --> 00:15:50,120 What maintains distract. And therefore they are an important target for therapy. 159 00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:56,510 So sometimes in treatment, what we try to do is transform negative and distressing images. 160 00:15:57,110 --> 00:16:01,820 So this is what I'm giving you a few more a few more ideas about. 161 00:16:02,210 --> 00:16:05,360 And I'll say at the end, this might be something we can also try ourselves. 162 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,040 So it's a technique that we commonly call imagery rescripting. 163 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:18,340 It's not a new idea, actually. It's been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years. There's actually evidence the ancient Greeks 164 00:16:18,350 --> 00:16:27,260 did some imagery rescripting and dream transformation, things like that when they were trying to treat psychological and spiritual distress. 165 00:16:27,710 --> 00:16:34,880 And it's formed of other therapies and begins gestalt therapy, hypnotherapy, you know, imagery scripting and 166 00:16:35,060 --> 00:16:38,090 And Beck talked about it in the old days of cognitive therapy. 167 00:16:38,390 --> 00:16:44,120 But certainly in recent years, it's really kind of gathered a lot more attention in CBT. 168 00:16:44,390 --> 00:16:48,710 And we use it now quite frequently, not only in PTSD but across treatment 169 00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:55,620 For lots of different disorders. And essentially what imagery rescripting is, it's kind of rewriting an image, 170 00:16:55,620 --> 00:17:01,650 changing what happens in an image, whether that's a true memory or a constructed image. 171 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:08,280 I'll give you some examples of that. So when we work with trauma memories and post-traumatic stress disorder, 172 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:15,540 what we usually try to do is kind of pull out what might be the key memories that's maintaining a person's distress. 173 00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:23,910 So we're looking for key memories or moments during the trauma, which if we experience that coming back in these nightmares and flashbacks and so on. 174 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:31,200 So I've got an example here of someone I work with who was sexually assaulted in childhood by their piano teacher. 175 00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:36,569 And what we do in cognitive therapy is we really try to understand what 176 00:17:36,570 --> 00:17:41,910 specifically is it about those moments or those memories that creates distress 177 00:17:41,910 --> 00:17:47,670 For that person? It is often more important, personal meanings attached that might be different for everybody. 178 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:56,040 So for this person, the meanings that were attached to those moments were a sense that they're in danger, associated with fear, 179 00:17:56,490 --> 00:18:02,490 and also a sense of that they made a mistake, that it was their fault that they sometimes caused this to happen, 180 00:18:03,390 --> 00:18:06,450 which was associated with powerful feelings of guilt. 181 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,980 So when we working these types of memories and PTSD, we can try to update them with new information, 182 00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:16,970 the things that we know now that the person didn't know at the time. 183 00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:22,460 So, for example, for this person it's that they're safe now, no one's abusing them anymore, 184 00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:26,990 that their piano teacher has any contact with them and can't harm them any further. 185 00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:32,629 And also and this is something we might work with, with a whole range of of cognitive techniques, 186 00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:38,120 but that it wasn't their fault that they were only a child, they weren't even aware what sex was at that time. 187 00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:42,800 And that thought playing with the adult in that scenario with the perpetrator. 188 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,370 So these are things that the adult knows, but that the child doesn't know. 189 00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:51,740 So to bring that new information back into the trauma memory so that the child knows 190 00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:57,530 it and so that the trauma memories can be sort of updated with that new information, 191 00:18:58,010 --> 00:19:06,140 we reactivate the trauma memory by talking again about what happened, and then we bring that new information in and connect it back with the memory. 192 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:12,780 So this is a kind of standard technique and cognitive therapy for PTSD that we call updating trauma memories. 193 00:19:14,140 --> 00:19:24,970 And when we use rescripting we're trying to essentially do the same thing to bring that new information in via the image, via changing the image. 194 00:19:25,420 --> 00:19:30,730 So, for example, rather than just saying, I'm safe now and it wasn't my fault, 195 00:19:31,090 --> 00:19:38,440 we can change the story of the trauma memory to bring that new information in a different way. 196 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,990 And as we were saying earlier, because images can be more powerful than words alone, 197 00:19:44,410 --> 00:19:52,360 sometimes this can be a faster way to really connect and resonate with that new information that new emotional image. 198 00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:59,950 So a typical rescript, for example, for a childhood trauma is to actually come into the trauma memory as the adult self. 199 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:09,340 Sometimes the therapist comes in too find that out and then do the things that the child in that scenario needs. 200 00:20:09,670 --> 00:20:15,430 So perhaps rescue them, take them to a place of safety, perhaps comfort them, then perhaps tell them that it's just themselves, 201 00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:19,600 perhaps confront or punish the perpetrator if that's something the person wants to do. 202 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:25,060 And all of this is led by the client typically. When we do this, technically it's up to them what they want to do. 203 00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:31,799 We just kind of help facilitate it and help them imagine it. So essentially what we try to do is still update 204 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,590 this information. Information is still the same. I'm safe now and it's not my fault. 205 00:20:35,950 --> 00:20:38,650 But we're using an imaginary script to bring that thing. 206 00:20:40,460 --> 00:20:50,390 So kind of other emotional themes that are common in PTSD memories, things like fear, shame, powerlessness, disgust. 207 00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:56,210 And what we're trying to do with the scripting is to create an alternative emotional experience. 208 00:20:56,630 --> 00:21:02,030 So the script should try and counteract those negative emotions that are there in the trauma memory. 209 00:21:02,330 --> 00:21:05,750 So if someone is very fearful, we want to provide them with a sense of safety. 210 00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:10,070 If they felt very ashamed, we want them to be able to access beings of compassion. 211 00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:13,610 If they felt powerlessness, we want to experience mastery. 212 00:21:13,910 --> 00:21:18,740 If they felt disgust. Then we want them to feel decontaminated and clean. 213 00:21:19,340 --> 00:21:22,400 And this is true of kind of all of the different types of negative emotions. 214 00:21:22,670 --> 00:21:27,470 We want the rescript to introduce a new emotion experience that counteracts that negativity. 215 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,810 So a couple of other examples. 216 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:41,640 This is from a client who was tortured and felt a very strong sense of injustice and anger about the way that they had been treated, 217 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,760 which was totally, you know, reasonable and understandable because what happened was was grossly unfair. 218 00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:53,670 And this person hadn't ever being able to get justice for it in real life. 219 00:21:54,090 --> 00:21:58,440 So what we tried to do and in between rescripting was find a way for her to 220 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:03,570 feel a sense of power and a sense of justice being served in the interim. 221 00:22:04,170 --> 00:22:07,469 So what she wanted to do was kind of revisit the scene of the trauma, 222 00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:14,250 which was a prison in Iran as a kind of avenging Djinn, which is a kind of evil spirit. 223 00:22:14,610 --> 00:22:18,900 And she destroyed the prison and she freed the prisoners that were still being held back. 224 00:22:19,290 --> 00:22:27,689 So she was able to kind of inflict some punishment on the perpetrators and experience a sense of kind of justice being served, 225 00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:32,450 even though that wasn't possible in real life. Another example. 226 00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:37,110 This is a clinic discussed shame, memory after sexual assault. 227 00:22:37,530 --> 00:22:41,430 This is someone who had kind of spiritual beliefs. 228 00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:45,900 Some people script liked it because we created them like sort of magical elements. 229 00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:51,090 Some people like their rescript much more pragmatic, practical things that can actually happen in time and space. 230 00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:54,240 And that's fine. You know, we just go with whatever our clients want to do. 231 00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:59,700 But for this person, they wanted to go and clean themselves in the magical waterfall. 232 00:23:00,950 --> 00:23:06,440 And then she had a guardian angel who visited her and reminded her that she had nothing to be ashamed of. 233 00:23:06,620 --> 00:23:14,810 So that vision of being clean and being cared for and experiencing compassion were key elements of her rescript. 234 00:23:15,910 --> 00:23:17,319 So they're different for everybody. 235 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,840 And and there's a kind of whole range of really imaginative stuff that we can do to kind of transport transform images. 236 00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:31,510 And by the way, we're not pretending with our clients that something terrible hasn't happened, or that this really could have happened in real life. 237 00:23:32,170 --> 00:23:39,670 What we're doing is just sort of changing the feeling associated with the memory to try and bring in these new meanings and these new emotions, 238 00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:49,450 which can then disrupt the the re-experiencing of the trauma memory, which in a moment comes back again and again in its original horrible form. 239 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,660 So we just trying to interrupt that process, but we're not trying to pretend that what happened didn't happen and that it wasn't terrible. 240 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,860 And maybe we can use these kind of techniques in other disorders as well. 241 00:24:02,370 --> 00:24:08,219 So, for example, with phobias, what if, rather than imagining the kind of the terrifying spider, 242 00:24:08,220 --> 00:24:15,030 the worst case scenario spider, we imagined this cute little guy, the misunderstood a spider. 243 00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:24,030 I listened to a podcast recently where there's a guy talking about the spider research and he researched wolf spiders, 244 00:24:24,030 --> 00:24:28,799 who are the kind of common spiders that you sometimes see in British households, 245 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,670 which can be quite big and I'm certainly honestly quite spider phobic. 246 00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:37,830 And he was explaining that actually good spiders, the ones you see around your house, water, 247 00:24:37,890 --> 00:24:46,550 are usually kind of lonely males looking for a mate and that they, if you put we can't hear it with a human ear. 248 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,540 But if he puts a tiny microphone to them, 249 00:24:48,780 --> 00:24:54,420 they're singing this sort of sweet little song to kind of attract mates and even do a little dance with their front legs. 250 00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:58,740 And it tends to transform the way I thought that was how spiders. Rather than thinking of them as 251 00:24:59,310 --> 00:25:05,550 kind of frightening things that were dashing at me. I sort of could see them as this just kind of slightly hapless, 252 00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:16,530 lonely bachelors looking for a mate or maybe like in Harry Potter where Ron Weasley was transforming his feared demon 253 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,719 Bogart, I think they were called, he put it on roller-skates. 254 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,110 He made something that was frightening into something that was kind of ridiculous. 255 00:25:25,410 --> 00:25:30,540 So maybe we can transform things that we're afraid of in our minds to take a lot of the fear away. 256 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:36,299 Similarly, with social anxiety, when we're fearful about our a social encounter, 257 00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:41,760 like our first day at a new job or doing a presentation or something like that, instead of imagining it going wrong, 258 00:25:42,060 --> 00:25:48,570 maybe we can imagine it going really well and use that kind of power visualisation or positive imagery, 259 00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:52,920 which is we know will have an impact on our physiology and on our behaviour. 260 00:25:54,860 --> 00:25:59,060 So I'd encourage you to to try these kind of techniques yourself. 261 00:25:59,790 --> 00:26:04,340 Either wish memories from the past, if you have things which bother you. 262 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:12,860 And if you've got sort of self defining negative images, maybe have to think about what I've told you about rescripting. 263 00:26:14,030 --> 00:26:18,080 What are the meaning of those images to you? 264 00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:24,920 How do they make you feel? And what might be a kind of different emotional experience? 265 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:34,040 What might be a way for that scenario to end differently in your mind that would bring in a sort of counteracting emotion? 266 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:41,059 And could you transform those memories of those images that you have to bring in those new endings and to give yourself a 267 00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:47,750 different emotional experience. If it's something that you're frightened of or something that you have flash forwards about. 268 00:26:47,930 --> 00:26:50,150 What if this happens in the future? What if that happened? 269 00:26:50,540 --> 00:26:56,270 Could you try rewriting the story of how those things end so that they end in a different, more positive way? 270 00:26:57,500 --> 00:27:00,080 We can't predict the future and we can't change the past. 271 00:27:00,410 --> 00:27:06,680 But what we can do is change our appraisals of those things and our emotional reaction to those things. 272 00:27:07,010 --> 00:27:13,580 And one of the sort of avenues towards accessing those new emotions can be through imaging. 273 00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:17,590 Alright. So I'm going to finish back. 274 00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:25,709 So free to email me or contact me on Twitter if you've got any questions about this stuff or if you want me to share any resources, or 275 00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:29,880 any of the papers that I've mentioned. So I'll stop sharing. 276 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,800 And then I think we have some time for questions. Wonderful. 277 00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:39,660 Thank you ever so much, Hannah. And we've had some questions that have come in on the chat already, as well as our pre-prepared ones. 278 00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:45,840 So what I'll start with one of the questions in the chat. You were talking a lot about what you do as therapist, 279 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:52,560 but obviously as as you came to the end, you're talking about things that people things people might be able to do on the set by themselves. 280 00:27:53,070 --> 00:28:01,230 And one of the questions was, would you advise someone to seek help to process a childhood trauma, or could they try to deal with it themselves? 281 00:28:03,090 --> 00:28:05,340 Oh, yeah. See, I mean, I'm. 282 00:28:07,340 --> 00:28:15,169 You know, it's hard to say without getting kind of more information, I guess, about how that affects the individual because, 283 00:28:15,170 --> 00:28:22,460 of course, you know, many people have childhood traumatic experiences that can affect them in lots of different ways as an adult. 284 00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:27,650 But certainly, if there were memories from that which are bothering you, causing a lot of distress, 285 00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:32,839 especially if they're coming about repetitively and in kind of negative images, 286 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,090 nightmares, flashbacks, many things, than I absolutely say to to seek help. 287 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,690 And, you know, I'm a PTSD person, so I've got always PTSD on the mind. 288 00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:46,400 But actually, trauma can be a real trigger for all sorts of different emotional psychological problems 289 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,030 As an adult. 290 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:54,100 So if there's something that that's going to causing you kind of significant impact in the day to day life, then definitely on station couch. 291 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,020 But I guess the things we can do for ourselves perhaps are things where, you know, 292 00:28:59,090 --> 00:29:05,209 we have images that that aren't causing us day to day problems in our functioning, but perhaps just kind of all just a little bit, 293 00:29:05,210 --> 00:29:11,120 like I say, define a little bit about ourselves that we don't like or that give us the sort 294 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,110 of the wrong messages in some ways that we can use as techniques to manage. 295 00:29:16,290 --> 00:29:22,680 Great. Thanks very much. And I suppose they're still very much talking about images from previous experiences. 296 00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:24,990 We did have a question that was submitted in advance. 297 00:29:25,380 --> 00:29:31,050 Asking about does the approach to mental images differ for real images versus imagined images? 298 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:38,310 And also in the question I highlighted that maybe sometimes you don't know whether this is a real image or something that I've imagined. 299 00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:48,650 Yeah, absolutely. No, that's true. And. It's a really interesting question because, you know, when you think about memories, 300 00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:54,490 you know, our memories aren't exact replays of what's happened in the past. 301 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:57,530 You know, they're reconstructed every time we we remember something. 302 00:29:58,010 --> 00:30:04,280 And that reconstruction is influenced by other sources, you know, things that are happened since and things that are happening to us now. 303 00:30:05,270 --> 00:30:08,540 Similarly, you know, our imagination is really fuelled by our memories. 304 00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:12,200 When I asked you that exercise about imagining walking into your house and so when 305 00:30:12,220 --> 00:30:15,680 you were drawing on memories of going into your house to create those images. 306 00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:18,500 So I'm going to misquote this 307 00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:23,420 I remember exactly how you said it, but there's a quote, which is something along the lines of all memories are imaginings 308 00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:28,250 and all imaginings are memories. Those mental processes are really closely interlinked. 309 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,900 And certainly the way that we work with them, you know, 310 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:39,370 things like a dream rescripting you can use with real memories, you can use with constructing memories, memory. 311 00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:46,100 We all constructed images that we know aren't memories and certainly you can use it when you don't know and certainly from 312 00:30:46,820 --> 00:30:52,670 especially memories that come from already childhood before we we're not clear what exactly is a true memory and what's not. 313 00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:56,540 And there's lots of evidence to show that, that some of our childhood memories might be accurate, 314 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:02,560 some actually might not be accurate and might be the products of imagination and that it's really hard to tell the difference. 315 00:31:02,570 --> 00:31:03,229 You know, and again, 316 00:31:03,230 --> 00:31:10,490 the same things kind of happen in our brain when we kind of access memories of things that really did happen versus things that we imagined having. 317 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:20,390 There was a nice study actually with people who believed that that they had been abducted by aliens, so a sort of highly improbable memory. 318 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,950 But those people fully believed it to be true. 319 00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:32,720 And when they sort of analysed the quality and quantity of those memories and the kind of physiological reactions associated with them, 320 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,250 they were almost identical to memories that could be verified. 321 00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:42,920 So yeah, it's a nice question because actually there's a clearly huge overlap between. 322 00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:46,340 constructed images and memories that we can address in a very similar way. 323 00:31:49,010 --> 00:31:57,770 Thanks very much. You talked about obviously the critical a critical part being the connection between the emotion and the image. 324 00:31:57,770 --> 00:32:06,259 And we had this specific question about shame. And I wondered if you were able to comment on shame specifically, and, for example, 325 00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:11,510 where people are thinking back to their past mistakes and feeling that sense of shame 326 00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:16,760 and how people might be able to make peace with those sorts of memories and images. 327 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:27,680 Yeah. It's real. It's a horrible emotion. Shame. And, you know, it's often a big part of the work that we do in PTSD and but for all of us, 328 00:32:27,690 --> 00:32:33,150 you know, I can access memories of things that I'm ashamed of in the past. And they still give me a real kind of like shiver now. 329 00:32:34,290 --> 00:32:42,020 I think, you know, as I've talked about before, sort of trying to find a counterpoint to the emotions as well. 330 00:32:42,030 --> 00:32:51,300 From a shame, that's kind of compassion. And, you know, when we if you imagine talking to someone who cares a lot about you, 331 00:32:52,260 --> 00:32:55,980 what they would say when you tell them about something that you feel very ashamed of, 332 00:32:56,850 --> 00:33:02,610 often they would be much less critical of you than you are of yourself. 333 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,610 So we can kind of use imagery to embody that more compassionate perspective. 334 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,670 Deborah Lee has this really nice technique that that's called the perfect nurturer, 335 00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:21,210 and it's kind of it was designed for people who have very high levels of shame or self-criticism 336 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,760 and who really struggled with that process of being compassionate towards themselves. 337 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:36,930 So it's a kind of way of like outsourcing that compassion to an imagined being that you can then seek kind of advice and comfort for. 338 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:44,340 So what she advises doing is imagining what qualities are kind of idealised caregiver would be this perfect nurturer. 339 00:33:44,670 --> 00:33:54,360 So they might be someone who you know looks like your grandmother whom you'd love to very much, who smells like a comforting smell to you. 340 00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,420 Who's got a voice that's really kind of soft and gentle, comforting and caring. 341 00:34:00,990 --> 00:34:04,650 And you sort of imagine this kind of being. 342 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,750 So it could be a spiritual elements as well, or it could be kind of more in the form of a real human. 343 00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:16,260 And then imagine sharing that experience with them or imagining them entering the memory of 344 00:34:16,350 --> 00:34:20,460 the thing that you feel ashamed of and what they would do and what they would say to you. 345 00:34:20,970 --> 00:34:27,300 And probably they would want to comfort you, maybe want to hug you and imagine being on the receiving end of that compassion. 346 00:34:27,810 --> 00:34:35,460 Because I think sometimes when we can't generate those self-compassion experiences for ourselves and connect with those emotions, 347 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,350 if we can sort of externalise it in a way and then imagine being on the receiving end of it, that can help. 348 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,710 And I think also, if we imagine giving compassionate care to someone else, if you imagine, for example, 349 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:52,500 a child crying and how you might comfort them and how we might care for them, what the tone of your voice might be, how you would say how you would act. 350 00:34:53,250 --> 00:34:59,490 And we can often generate that externally, and then we have to kind of practise internalising it ourselves. 351 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,140 So yeah, I'd give that a try if you've got that kind of shame. 352 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:11,910 I think that relates really nicely actually to one of the questions in the chat, which is about compassion and sympathy. 353 00:35:12,060 --> 00:35:17,280 And I think just I think if I'm understanding it correctly, the question is really about that, 354 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,470 where people are struggling to access compassion and sympathy from others. 355 00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:29,700 Is it going to be difficult for them to engage in either altering their images 356 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,520 until they've got that that compassion and sympathy from others? 357 00:35:34,530 --> 00:35:41,040 And I guess until you feel understood by others, it may be difficult to engage in actually making it, making a change. 358 00:35:41,490 --> 00:35:46,950 Apologies if I haven't quite understood the the question properly, but I think it's really about, you know, 359 00:35:47,290 --> 00:35:54,520 how can people deal with that, that problem and be able to access the sympathy and compassion that they might need? 360 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:02,330 And is that important as a first aid? I think it's important and I think it's a challenge. 361 00:36:02,330 --> 00:36:07,790 And I think, you know, especially, you know, many of the people we work with, with PTSD, 362 00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:15,020 especially if they've had many traumatic experiences and especially the kind of traumas that started in very early childhood, 363 00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:21,379 you know, feeling compassion for yourself is just not a muscle that you developed 364 00:36:21,380 --> 00:36:30,709 Emotionally if you know what I mean. So it can be really hard when in therapy we're asking them to try and develop that that side or to see their 365 00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:36,860 experiences in a different way that they might just not have access to that that counterpoint perspective. 366 00:36:38,090 --> 00:36:46,399 So that's where these kind of imagery exercises can be useful and can be a way of just sort of practising. It might not be something that happens quickly. 367 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,380 It might be something that that needs a bit of time. 368 00:36:49,070 --> 00:36:55,630 I think the thing I'd say is, you know, restricting these techniques, they usually sit within a kind of whole course of treatment. 369 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,980 So I've just sort of isolated this technique and talked about it. 370 00:36:58,370 --> 00:37:05,690 But it's not the only way that we would work on these types of experiences with these types of emotions in therapy. 371 00:37:06,530 --> 00:37:10,940 It's just kind of one one way of doing it, and it actually doesn't see everybody. 372 00:37:11,180 --> 00:37:16,400 As I said earlier, some people generate energy readily and really naturally, 373 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,980 and they take to rescripting very quickly and find it a very powerful technique. 374 00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:26,059 But I've certainly worked with some people where it's it's just not quite been that cup of tea and they 375 00:37:26,060 --> 00:37:31,040 find it harder to generate images and actually they prefer working in a kind of more verbal domain. 376 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,480 And that's okay too, you know. 377 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,389 But I think people I've worked with, they've often been surprised that sometimes when you introduce a technique like 378 00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:41,030 rescripting people are a bit sceptical of it. 379 00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:49,100 But actually when they try it, they sometimes are surprised by the power of the kind of imagery that can generate the emotions associated with that. 380 00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:53,780 And that actually picks up on a couple of questions in the chat, which is sort of about, 381 00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:59,300 you know, how do you help people image, image better for want of a better way of saying it? 382 00:37:59,310 --> 00:38:03,530 And and so I guess that sounds like you're saying that to some extent. 383 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:07,040 Some people are, you know, just have richer imagery than others. 384 00:38:07,850 --> 00:38:14,089 However, there might be some people who maybe if they sort of allow themselves to go with it, 385 00:38:14,090 --> 00:38:17,600 actually are able to engage in it better than they might might be able to expect. 386 00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:22,340 It sounds like you're saying you wouldn't kind of, if people are not experiencing images, 387 00:38:22,340 --> 00:38:29,120 you would want to be pushing that necessarily kind of work with what works best for individuals that you would say, 388 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:36,770 are there things that you think help people to create richer images and be able to use imagery more effectively? 389 00:38:37,490 --> 00:38:48,350 Yeah, I do think it's something you can practise, you know, and sometimes what we would do is kind of help people practise imagery, 390 00:38:48,350 --> 00:38:52,110 which is kind of benign imagery before we start working on more traumatic memories. 391 00:38:52,460 --> 00:38:57,170 So, you know, do a kind of imaging exercise, you know, the one I did with you earlier, with the lemon. 392 00:38:57,170 --> 00:39:04,069 But you can ask people to imagine the sort of things like their home after work and what that looks like. 393 00:39:04,070 --> 00:39:07,430 And and people can often generate quite a powerful image. 394 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,980 And then often what we do is sort of give them practise in manipulating images because that that's something new to people. 395 00:39:12,980 --> 00:39:19,970 You know, you can if you or someone you generate imagery quite readily, you might not not have ever tried to transform, or rescript to your images. 396 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:24,340 So we sometimes get people, for example, to imagine a kettle boiling. 397 00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:29,480 And that's a good one because it's nice and multi-sensory and the sounds and visual stuff. 398 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,799 And so you kind of imagine it boiling, what that looks like and the steam coming out of the 399 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,760 kettle and then getting them to imagine going back into the kettle. 400 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,050 And now I want you to change the image into black and white rather than into colour. 401 00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:47,540 Or now I want you to you know, instead of steam coming out of the kettle, 402 00:39:47,690 --> 00:39:51,950 I want you to imagine that little ping pong balls are flying out the car or whatever it might be, 403 00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:56,390 but getting people sort of just to start playing their imagination 404 00:39:56,870 --> 00:40:01,939 With modifying images and actually there's interesting evidence that with kind of trauma memories and 405 00:40:01,940 --> 00:40:07,940 unpleasant images, even just doing things like changing the details of the image, 406 00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:15,620 even if you're not kind of bringing in a new emotional experience can reduce the power of the memory as an image in itself. 407 00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:20,450 So it's almost like once we know we've got a bit of control over our images and once we can see that 408 00:40:20,450 --> 00:40:27,070 they are like a product of our mind's eye rather than something which has this kind of power over us, 409 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,309 which often like it does, 410 00:40:28,310 --> 00:40:36,600 once we realise we can manipulate and change them and we've got some sort of self-efficacy then in that relationship with our images that in itself, 411 00:40:36,770 --> 00:40:37,970 Can reduce distress. 412 00:40:38,330 --> 00:40:48,320 So it can be a powerful technique but that certainly those kind of things can help people just yeah, build up the skill of accessing and manipulating images. 413 00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:53,250 But yeah, as you say, it might not be for everyone. And personally I wouldn't kind of, you know, 414 00:40:53,780 --> 00:40:57,680 push it and push it if someone wasn't finding it a helpful technique and we can move on to other techniques. 415 00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:02,420 I'm afraid we're not going to get through all of the questions have come in. 416 00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:09,710 But just one more question for you. We've talked quite a lot about images, images from past experiences. 417 00:41:09,830 --> 00:41:17,390 What do you tend to work in different ways if you're helping people combat stressful mental images of the future? 418 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,090 And so there was a comment specifically about, for example, 419 00:41:20,090 --> 00:41:28,270 if someone's currently facing uncertainty in aspects of their life and may be experiencing stressful mental images, so a future focus. 420 00:41:29,330 --> 00:41:33,230 How would you approach those? Would it be the same or are there any things that would be different? 421 00:41:34,570 --> 00:41:41,210 I yeah, I mean, I guess I've talked a lot about images from the past because that's what I work with. 422 00:41:41,630 --> 00:41:45,740 But certainly people do have images, you know, fearful images of the future. 423 00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:53,480 You know, and as we talked about, this kind of link between all our beliefs of thoughts and all images is really close. 424 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,840 So if we're really worried about something happening in the future. 425 00:41:57,290 --> 00:42:00,469 We're likely to generate images which are associated with those beliefs. 426 00:42:00,470 --> 00:42:02,090 You know, if we think something bad is going to happen, 427 00:42:02,090 --> 00:42:10,580 then we might start imagining that. But the problem is that A those negative images are going to sort of stimulate lots of negative emotions 428 00:42:10,820 --> 00:42:16,820 and B they're going to kind of reinforce those beliefs and is going to feel more likely that there's bad things going to happen. 429 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:24,830 So I guess if we notice that process happening in ourselves, you know, that it's really kind of fuelling our worry when we generate these images. 430 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:33,750 Perhaps we can do things to try and kind of. Interfere with that process or break that link. 431 00:42:34,110 --> 00:42:42,810 So perhaps, as I say, you know, imagining different scenarios that might be better, you know, more positive flash forwards, 432 00:42:43,050 --> 00:42:51,120 we can't influence necessarily the outcome, but worrying and generating a lot of negative imagery isn't necessarily helpful. 433 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:57,540 So I think once people kind of recognise that that link and they can try and generate alternative 434 00:42:57,540 --> 00:43:02,670 ways of thinking about future and alternative ways of imagining it, that might perhaps influence that. 435 00:43:03,890 --> 00:43:09,710 Okay. Thank you ever so much. And I'm very sorry to everyone who put a question in the chat that we haven't been able to reach, 436 00:43:10,100 --> 00:43:17,360 but hopefully you've been able to get some useful input on some of the things you were asking about through the responses Hannah's given. 437 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:24,650 But thank you ever so much for joining us today. Hannah, it's been really wonderful to have your talk and to add this to the series. 438 00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:28,219 Just a reminder to those you've joined about the series. 439 00:43:28,220 --> 00:43:38,209 So it's all available on the Department of Experimental Psychology YouTube channel, which you can search for directly or look at via our website. 440 00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:43,550 And Halley's just posted more information on that in the chat. Before you completely 441 00:43:43,550 --> 00:43:48,380 leave today we'd be really grateful if you complete the feedback form that will pop up. 442 00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:54,590 It would be really useful to have that for us to be thinking just about future things that we may do beyond this series. 443 00:43:55,340 --> 00:44:02,719 And I do suggest, as we're coming to the end of this series, like to say a huge thank you to Halley Cohen and Kaja Winney, 444 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:09,680 who have done all the work behind the scenes to make sure this series has run really smoothly and has helped us reach a 445 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:16,040 really large number of people with this sort of evidence-based guidance on all things mental health and mental wellness. 446 00:44:16,060 --> 00:44:23,990 So massive thank you to Halley and Kaja for all of their support and huge thanks to all of our speakers across the series. 447 00:44:24,450 --> 00:44:29,920 As you know, as I've said a few times, please do go and visit some of the other talks because there were some really you know, 448 00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:34,430 there were really wonderful collection, which we hope will be really useful for you. 449 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:42,350 So thanks ever so much to you all for joining us. And we look forward to seeing you again in some other form in the future. 450 00:44:42,740 --> 00:44:43,850 Thanks a lot. Bye bye.