1 00:00:08,190 --> 00:00:20,550 Thank you very much, Russell. I should start by saying that my talk or my comments are slightly at a tangent from some of the ongoing discussions, 2 00:00:20,550 --> 00:00:28,620 as well as perhaps even with with this panel. But let me say that I'm here because actually, more than a decade ago, 3 00:00:28,620 --> 00:00:36,090 I wrote a Ph.D. on the history of psychiatry and psychoanalysis in India, which I never published and by the more. 4 00:00:36,090 --> 00:00:44,760 But I but in the last four, five, four years, I've been training as a psychoanalyst in London, in the Freudian leukaemia in style. 5 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:51,120 And also my book in press, which is on the question of political violence in India. 6 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,220 Looking at figures starting from pillock and ending with 1947. 7 00:00:56,220 --> 00:01:03,510 And Patel uses some psychoanalytic concepts, but it's not loaded with that jargon. 8 00:01:03,510 --> 00:01:12,000 So I thought I should place myself in this, in this conversation and where I'm coming from. 9 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:20,640 So in a way and the way I want to take this forward is really like two things because I'm going to extract a few things from my training, 10 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,720 a few things from my book and a few things from my doctoral work. 11 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:33,060 So in a way, if it's a collage, do do forgive me of different bits, but it will all it will all come together. 12 00:01:33,060 --> 00:01:40,060 Which is to say that and the more kind of collaborative interest with a lot of people in this room is to really open 13 00:01:40,060 --> 00:01:45,900 the discussion which cannot be done here today is really what is the present and future of the clinic in India. 14 00:01:45,900 --> 00:01:53,790 Because if you look at the history of psychiatry or psychoanalysis, it is coterminous. 15 00:01:53,790 --> 00:01:57,470 Its history is coterminous in India with the rise of the discipline. 16 00:01:57,470 --> 00:02:06,450 So there is no time lag. It's not like psychiatry comes in in in England and then 40, 50 years later, it goes to India. 17 00:02:06,450 --> 00:02:10,860 It actually it is coterminous much like liberalism in the 19th century. 18 00:02:10,860 --> 00:02:20,310 It's coterminous with it. And as we know in psychiatry, in the 18th century confinement was the condition of therapeutics. 19 00:02:20,310 --> 00:02:24,930 You needed to put people in asylums and so on and so forth. 20 00:02:24,930 --> 00:02:30,480 And you but you you have psychiatry in India, but you do not have a great confinement in India, 21 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:39,120 which is the experience of, say, France of Britain and so on in a similar analogical way. 22 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,980 And I would say a lot more about psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis comes a very, very early to India. 23 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:46,680 It is a it is. It's it's international body. 24 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:53,550 It's body is recognised even before the French body is recognised by the International Psychoanalytic Society. 25 00:02:53,550 --> 00:03:00,640 And yet it is the same story in that its uptake is very wide in humanities, in humans, 26 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:06,180 in discussions around the novel, in discussions, even in some therapeutic practise. 27 00:03:06,180 --> 00:03:15,840 But you never really get the effect the the takeoff of, as it were the clinic again, the talking shop, the talking cure in India. 28 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:23,070 The way perhaps now a little bit because because of India's opposing a lot of stressors for every individual being, 29 00:03:23,070 --> 00:03:30,840 you are seeing a new new form demand in it and all sorts of therapeutic talking cures are available. 30 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:38,000 Apart from my style, which is leukaemia and because there might be a reason from it, 31 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:45,570 I'm sorry the demand is not here, but but I won't minds a talk yesterday and even so should judge. 32 00:03:45,570 --> 00:03:53,460 I wanted to actually posit my talk quite diametrically opposed to it to kind of see what psychoanalysis can do and doesn't do, 33 00:03:53,460 --> 00:03:59,400 as opposed to, say, psychiatry and the interface between, say, society and culture. 34 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:08,070 The book that we've been hearing how medicine might interact with society or culture or and it may not. 35 00:04:08,070 --> 00:04:19,260 So in a way, this is the opposite in a way to psychoanalysis, because what a psychoanalysis attends to is not is not this kind of spread. 36 00:04:19,260 --> 00:04:26,700 Can we put animals in? Can we put all of this in, but really is interested in the question of containment and specificity? 37 00:04:26,700 --> 00:04:32,970 Because if you will take the the dictum, take the most abject condition of, say, 38 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:37,500 schizophrenia, I was telling Bustle this, you know, people who people who hear voices, 39 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:46,650 there's an invasion of the outside in in that kind of suffering and the work of psychoanalysis is then therefore not to kind of, 40 00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:51,330 as it were related to what many dynamics that of course it takes it for. 41 00:04:51,330 --> 00:04:59,040 Read that people are subjects of capitalism. Freud is very, very clearly stating that psychoanalysis stands against capitalism. 42 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:07,800 So it's not. That's all taken for read, but it's it's it's it's practise is not the way cross-cultural psychiatry or medical. 43 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,100 Ology, or the kind of discussion we have been hearing, 44 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:20,460 so this is a kind of important caveat in my people, so suffering is individual, especially in Freud. 45 00:05:20,460 --> 00:05:30,780 And as you know that Freud was a neurologist and he developed psychoanalysis through as it were the true description which was observed, 46 00:05:30,780 --> 00:05:38,010 which is also why you can see anthropologists take onto to do psychoanalysis. 47 00:05:38,010 --> 00:05:43,380 But unlike psychiatry, psychoanalysis is limited to and by talking. 48 00:05:43,380 --> 00:05:53,310 It's not really. It doesn't extend beyond this. It's very it's it's very clearly about talking and what can be done in and with language. 49 00:05:53,310 --> 00:05:56,970 It can, you know, that's really it's it's self-limiting. 50 00:05:56,970 --> 00:06:06,990 Horizon and lacking in psychoanalysis is driven less by identification of a diagnosis, whether you're schizophrenic, hysteric or what have you. 51 00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:12,060 But really, it's focussed on prognosis and the future of the person. 52 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:21,180 And in that sense, say, for instance, again, the story we heard yesterday of of Rommel for, 53 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:26,640 say, someone like knocking on, you know, psychosis was is a question of adaptation to society. 54 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:32,130 It very openly poses that question. And and therefore, so I was just coming to it. 55 00:06:32,130 --> 00:06:38,640 I wanted to have that discussion, which is why I'm saying all this because, you know, it's also different. 56 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:48,360 And moreover, I'm now at the slightly controversial was a difficult bit, as its as such, psychoanalysis takes a very strong claim to universality. 57 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:58,680 It is a very it believes in certain universal precepts and and and therefore, as my teachers in London would say, we are of course all mad, 58 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:06,270 but not in the same way this would in a way, you know, you could say that this is really what the psychoanalytic tradition is. 59 00:07:06,270 --> 00:07:11,550 It's not like, OK, am I a Hindu and my, you know, all that comes in, but you know, 60 00:07:11,550 --> 00:07:16,200 those those kinds of cultural kind of deconstruction or social deconstruction that we 61 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,910 see in a lot of cross-cultural psychiatry is not on the table for psychoanalysis, 62 00:07:20,910 --> 00:07:30,930 actually. And it is therefore less drawn, a driven or rather, it is not interested in the question of normality as a diagnostic category. 63 00:07:30,930 --> 00:07:40,140 So there is and finally, there is no necessary link between behaviour and diagnosis, so you can be speaking so-called nonsense. 64 00:07:40,140 --> 00:07:46,560 It's not necessary, therefore, that you are hysterical or schizophrenic, so the structure of a diagnostic category. 65 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,540 So there's a big gap between surface and death, if I can put it like that. 66 00:07:51,540 --> 00:08:00,360 So in a way, it is the opposite of the psychiatrists practise, which, as we saw in the case, note in in this regard of stock yesterday, 67 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:06,600 and it's a case note I was struck because I work with these notes in India and from the colonial period, it's the same form. 68 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:15,510 The form has not changed and even the entries were very similar to to a to the kind of practises, say English. 69 00:08:15,510 --> 00:08:23,880 Psychiatrists who had no access to Indian languages or informants were deploying something here to be discussed. 70 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:29,220 So in a way, the methodological issue is not universal versus cultural or social. 71 00:08:29,220 --> 00:08:34,920 But it is really the universal question which which which concerns everybody. 72 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:43,050 And therefore, it is a universal list, the singular or the particular. It is not therefore about culture or society in that way. 73 00:08:43,050 --> 00:08:47,370 So Indians in this trajectory to psychiatry and psychoanalysis is therefore quite 74 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:53,580 different because most of its concern has been in as as were really devising, 75 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:58,470 really devising diagnosis and and so on and so forth. 76 00:08:58,470 --> 00:09:04,320 So to give a very do to come to Oedipus complex, which I will, I want to take a two examples here, 77 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:12,480 one on how in the theoretical debates itself in Freud's time, how this was theorised and debated from an Indian perspective. 78 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:18,750 And then I want to end with why Gandhi might be the father of India and what what in a 79 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:25,290 way his his assassination tells us in a way on the question of father figure relations. 80 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:28,770 But before that, let me just draw out a little bit of the context. 81 00:09:28,770 --> 00:09:37,770 I'm sorry if my mother, I needed to make my logical claims, and it's too bad that a man is not here, but I'll tell him later when we meet. 82 00:09:37,770 --> 00:09:46,350 So when psychiatry comes to India and early as I think the early 19th century, it's really interested in confinement. 83 00:09:46,350 --> 00:09:49,290 But its main concern is really to rationalise law. 84 00:09:49,290 --> 00:09:58,170 It's not really looking out for people, whether they are bad homeless, ill, able bodied, ill, ill bodied. 85 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:08,260 But the concern is really how to make criminal law more coherent in its own, in its in its own precepts because there is an issue with. 86 00:10:08,260 --> 00:10:12,070 With criminal lunacy, let's put it like that, so that's really how it's a. 87 00:10:12,070 --> 00:10:13,850 In the first instance appears, 88 00:10:13,850 --> 00:10:23,920 it secondly appears with the question of also white women who have arrived very recently in India because colonisation is, 89 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,720 as you know, women were not part of the 18th century story British story in India. 90 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:37,060 It's really in the early 19th century when women are allowed to enter. And there is a huge number of breakdowns of of of of women in India. 91 00:10:37,060 --> 00:10:45,230 And so there are two kinds of concerns and one that concern with with English women, British women in India and the second with actually the rational. 92 00:10:45,230 --> 00:10:54,130 So in a way, it's actually quite detached from Indian society. But having said that, you have about 30 asylums by 1920 in India or from big, 93 00:10:54,130 --> 00:11:01,060 big to small and there and all the major cities they are part of as the integral architecture of cities. 94 00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:04,810 Whether it is most prominently Bombay, which then it moves. 95 00:11:04,810 --> 00:11:13,270 But then, you know, if you all. And and the key, the key big asylums are remain in one in Lahore. 96 00:11:13,270 --> 00:11:16,780 And then in the early 20th century, it still is a very big hospital. 97 00:11:16,780 --> 00:11:24,790 I gather is the other one in Ranchi, which is in Bihar, which is where you see a lot of a lot of the work. 98 00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:32,440 But the interesting thing about Indian psychiatry is, which is a contrast to psychoanalysis, is that very few Indians take it up. 99 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,780 So the you know, so when you have professionalisation and so-called Indian ization of the medical 100 00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:42,940 services around the nineteen hundreds tends to use when actually Indians have, 101 00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:48,280 you know, storming the gates of sort of higher offices in in the in the professional services. 102 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:54,760 Psychiatry remains something of a kind of an very unattractive option for the medical service people, 103 00:11:54,760 --> 00:12:02,740 and you really don't get widespread Indian ization of the, you know, the way you get it for, say, surgery or or so on. 104 00:12:02,740 --> 00:12:11,740 So the interesting thing is the flipside for psychoanalysis. So in a way, psychiatry finds it very hard to find Indian intellectual life. 105 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:18,370 It might find a practise, but it doesn't really, you know, there is some kind of a gap which I can discuss later. 106 00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:27,610 But psychoanalysis, on the other hand, become take is taken up very is grabbed very enthusiastically and early on in the nineteen hundreds. 107 00:12:27,610 --> 00:12:34,630 And here the look again. The two Lucas's, oh, Calcutta and Lahore and of course, Banaras and various other places. 108 00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:43,240 Also it come up and the two figures here, one on academic entrepreneur Anand Sengupta, 109 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:49,630 who had studied at Harvard and he was interested in in actually instituting the discipline in India. 110 00:12:49,630 --> 00:12:53,230 And it's remarkable that, you know, in about 15 years. 111 00:12:53,230 --> 00:12:58,300 So from about ninety five onwards to about 1920, 112 00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:04,570 all the major Indian universities have a psychology department in India, plus they teach psychoanalysis. 113 00:13:04,570 --> 00:13:08,080 It's not, so it's a hermeneutic exercise. 114 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:14,020 And of course, the key figure as a practitioner is getting through shake her, whom everyone has heard of in the room. 115 00:13:14,020 --> 00:13:20,620 I imagine who is in correspondence with Freud for good 20 years and 50 years, 116 00:13:20,620 --> 00:13:25,450 and Aki has seen some of the correspondence or something, and I've seen some of it. 117 00:13:25,450 --> 00:13:30,270 But so what is the wood? Who is boss and what does he have to do with the Oedipus complex? 118 00:13:30,270 --> 00:13:37,510 And and let's come to that to the story. So as we so Freud's understanding, of course, 119 00:13:37,510 --> 00:13:45,500 of human suffering and and the human subject is driven is is formulated around two or three very basic concepts. 120 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:55,300 Very it's very minimal. It's a very minimal theory. Of course, the unconscious is one which is the introduction of the unconscious as a specific site. 121 00:13:55,300 --> 00:14:04,510 But the second is the Oedipus complex, which is what really ties it up into debates with kinship, with science, biology, with history and so on. 122 00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:07,870 And and it's this debate. So Get in. 123 00:14:07,870 --> 00:14:12,340 The Checkerboards is not trained as a novelist himself analyses himself and gets into 124 00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:17,950 and writes a Ph.D. on the theory of repression in You will tell me the date 1920, 125 00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:23,650 you know, 1920, 1920, and is critical of Freud for two reasons. 126 00:14:23,650 --> 00:14:28,630 And you're in correspondence. It's not happening. It's not a one sided thing. 127 00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:37,960 So he says, Well, Freud is OK, but he Freud had made the other argument that every human subject is driven by opposing sets of wishes, 128 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,700 and this is a problem for humanity itself and causes hatred and love. 129 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:50,890 You know, all of all of all of our emotions, all of our drives are basically basically binary and opposite opposing in nature. 130 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:56,890 This is one of the things that Freud had had said, and he had identified a few few of those things which were important. 131 00:14:56,890 --> 00:15:04,900 Both says, Well, OK, you're right. And remarkably, for this time, he says, the most important thing, which is the desire to be both male and female. 132 00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:07,410 So this is something you know, really. 133 00:15:07,410 --> 00:15:14,650 Radical, because, of course, Freud has not entered the debates around sexuality in this, in this, in this period. 134 00:15:14,650 --> 00:15:25,160 Relatedly, what happens is, of course, the debate opens up, but not quite really open in a very big way because Freud and Bush kind of part company. 135 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:33,150 And as we know that Freud himself in the 20s would turn to big social and religious questions because of the war question, 136 00:15:33,150 --> 00:15:37,670 because of the Jewish question, because of many of the catastrophes. 137 00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:41,580 And so he is interested in how religion comes to be, how wars come to be. 138 00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:51,780 And this is also whether Oedipus complex then is beefed up and bush then batiks critiques of Freud, 139 00:15:51,780 --> 00:16:00,780 who say, Well, you know, Freud has it wrong in in in, in in kind of as it were installing the father. 140 00:16:00,780 --> 00:16:05,430 What is really important is, in the Indian case, the mother figure, right? 141 00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:10,080 It's really the. So he wants to relatives the paternal and the maternal across cultures. 142 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:16,260 So it's a cultural relativism problem. And you know, when I first published this, I was like, OK, good man, boobs, you are right. 143 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:20,070 Correct. And you know that there are different ways of thinking about it. 144 00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:26,470 I no longer think that. So this is what I'm trying to open up here, you know, speculatively here. 145 00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:36,360 Secondly, a both also goes to the. Much like Freud goes to really important Judaic texts and even Egyptian texts, 146 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:42,180 otago's to the guitar to kind of mount a different theory of the self, which I can't I don't go to. 147 00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:52,470 But the biggest fillip to psychoanalysis in India is given by none other than Nehru and Nehru deployment of Freud in in his autobiography. 148 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:57,630 And, you know, but you also have the uptake of it in particularly the Hindi novel, 149 00:16:57,630 --> 00:17:02,550 which wants to kind of break away from its social shackles of Pynchon and all of that, 150 00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:06,300 you know, how Indian society is oppressive and we must write novels about it. 151 00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:09,870 And you know, and that was the kind of opening moment for the Hindi novel. 152 00:17:09,870 --> 00:17:14,940 But then there's a tone in the 30s for Hindi novelists to do a psychoanalytic way. 153 00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:25,380 But anyway, so. And so why do I want to sort of critique my own work where I kind of initially agreed with with with boss and say yes, 154 00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:31,560 that there is a relative relationship across cultures and on the figure of the father and the mother? 155 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:38,820 No, I was driven to it actually by my book on Indian politics and and anyone who opens at the newspaper in India, 156 00:17:38,820 --> 00:17:41,880 you will see that the figure of the father was everywhere, you know, 157 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:49,530 even even, you know, the most recently, when Trump called Modi the father of India, 158 00:17:49,530 --> 00:17:57,060 there was a huge kerfuffle, you know, and and of course, the story, of course, belongs to do too. 159 00:17:57,060 --> 00:18:03,000 To me, this is actually a really important question, and in a way, Freud addressed it. 160 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:09,600 So Freud's point was that it's really what is at the heart, at the heart of any organisation, 161 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,530 whether it is family, whether you skin it, family, religion, nation, community, 162 00:18:14,530 --> 00:18:26,340 what have you that there is there is a kind of a parasite which which which inaugurates a that that that that unity, 163 00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:29,730 whether it is that of the father or whether it is that of the family. And. 164 00:18:29,730 --> 00:18:34,800 And he also writes about a theme which is supposed to pass heart, not the question of sacrifice. 165 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:42,300 So there are two things which really allow for humans to come into a form of more than one being. 166 00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:46,830 And that is that is the question of of of a parasite. 167 00:18:46,830 --> 00:18:53,220 And the killing of the father is necessary almost for as it were it can be, can be its metaphorical. 168 00:18:53,220 --> 00:19:01,050 It doesn't have to be a real killing. And what the killing allows is a process of both inclusion and exclusion. 169 00:19:01,050 --> 00:19:07,560 So you kind of you throw the father out, but you also create a taboo around around it. 170 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:14,970 And therefore you have new norms through which society or fraternity will appear, and it must be about violence. 171 00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:21,450 And in that sense, I think I want to conclude by saying that I could read out maybe five seven two. 172 00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:26,850 I mean, I probably will say something that is really fascinating to turn to, not the debate. 173 00:19:26,850 --> 00:19:35,000 If you see, Oh my God, but this really is the father and the real father. It's not about the musical chairs that people want to have in India. 174 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,620 My argument is that actually in killing and killing Gandhi, goods sit in stores. 175 00:19:40,620 --> 00:19:48,750 Gandhi as the father of India, it's not because he existed because Ramala said that he was the father of father of India. 176 00:19:48,750 --> 00:19:51,660 He was himself called Babu as a paternal name. 177 00:19:51,660 --> 00:20:01,110 But it's actually the fact of the patricide itself, which institutes Gandhi's Gandhi's Gandhi's figure as as of. 178 00:20:01,110 --> 00:20:05,700 And here I turn in my book Please. I mean, to actually to to actually gods. 179 00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:10,500 His confession, which is now. Easily available. And and the good goods, 180 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:19,820 his confession is absolutely brilliant for a psychoanalyst because it's replete with that language for first articles because Gandhi, 181 00:20:19,820 --> 00:20:27,650 the father of Pakistan and and and and and be what he says is which I like. 182 00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:36,920 I find it fascinating when he says he's asked why he's killed, and he says Gandhi has failed in his paternal duty. 183 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:43,850 So I'm actually restoring the duty of the father by killing him because he has failed as as a father. 184 00:20:43,850 --> 00:20:52,010 And so in a way, the confession really becomes a note psychoanalytic note on the relationship of them. 185 00:20:52,010 --> 00:21:03,440 And here, I think the key question here is that in a very Oedipal sense, a good sissy's Gandhi as the obstacle to the figure of the mother, 186 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:11,070 which is, of course, mother India and and the correct relationship of enjoyment that can be established between as it were good c. 187 00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:13,760 And so in a way of a good set, 188 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:21,860 it's really the betrayal and neglect that has caused by the father is a betrayal and neglect by the father that has caused the patricide. 189 00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:26,420 And he concluded, yes, that he has proven to be the father of Pakistan. 190 00:21:26,420 --> 00:21:33,830 It is for this reason alone that as a dutiful son of mother India, it is my duty to put an end to the life of the so-called father of the nation, 191 00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:40,040 who had played a very important role in the vivisection of the country of our mother, our motherland. 192 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:47,300 So this is, of course, you can see that, you know, you could say is this is, of course, a parasite. 193 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:54,560 And Gandhi, as a father, is fixed as the obstacle in the first instance for the son to establish a relationship with the nation or the 194 00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:00,500 mother to kill the father for good say it was necessary to establish a proper and enjoyable good relationship. 195 00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:04,000 And his confession was the admission of this biocidal guilt. 196 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,710 The overcoming of the father, as Freud elaborated in his writings on the psychic structures of political life, 197 00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:14,960 precedes the production of future generations in establishing horizontal bonds of fraternity. 198 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:20,090 So it's really the killing of the father, which allows for fraternity to come in. 199 00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:26,840 So in his classic elaboration on the consolations of whether fraternity or religion or or even paradigmatic ideas, 200 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:32,690 Freud singled out the primacy of the mythic powers up parasite as a primary passage into life and language. 201 00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:35,960 The figure, a figure of the father, incites reverence and envy, 202 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:44,030 love and fear and his extinction or banishment in of outside conditioned actually matrilineal descent and fraternal bonds. 203 00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:51,770 So the father's exclusion is death or exile. Killing, nevertheless, is also incorporated into the symbolic system of the clan, 204 00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:57,410 religion or nation, providing meaning inasmuch as ordering the nature of that bond. 205 00:22:57,410 --> 00:23:05,750 So in a way, it allows for a symbolic structure. If I can put it like that, though, the murder is marked by the by prohibition. 206 00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:09,470 The murdered father nevertheless becomes emblematic of the new order. 207 00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:15,680 Gandhi's assassination replaces the mythic structure of Parasite, but crucially, as a historical event Gandhi. 208 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,860 That's a statistic of not only the Indian nation, but also its new fraternal and independent horizons. 209 00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:31,100 While his assassination is marked by guilt for his transgression for God's Guzzi, the assassination indeed represented him in the play's primacy. 210 00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:40,730 It also has something to do with it with within the public, the secret the secret life of it, which only becomes overt once Gandhi Gandhi is killed. 211 00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:47,420 It is death, however, that guarantees the perpetual return of the father as the brilliantly insightful I'm concluding 212 00:23:47,420 --> 00:23:54,050 if controversial analyst Jack Black clarifies that once dead fathers become even more potent. 213 00:23:54,050 --> 00:23:57,530 The dead father, as he elaborates, is perpetuated through his name, 214 00:23:57,530 --> 00:24:02,660 and it is his name that reproduces the order of things where the familial of symbolic. 215 00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:09,800 The patriarchal weight of such an order is, of course, reinforced as in the case of a nation that is often imagined in terms of a mother. 216 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,920 But it might be easy to dismiss this as pure psychobabble. 217 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:19,250 But it is instructive that precisely because Gandhi is deemed to hold a symbolic order of the Indian nation that 218 00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:25,280 his name and its commemoration has become synonymous with the Indian nation that not merely signifies a spark, 219 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,480 but has guaranteed his status as the father or the super ego of the nation. 220 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:36,470 The power of betrayal and the afterlife is redirected towards a symbolic order of the nation. 221 00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:40,250 The international assassination therefore had two independent effects. 222 00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:48,680 The betrayal that goods imputed to Gandhi returned to haunt and inform him that it's a life that has neither been owned nor fully exercised. 223 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,560 God said it would, however, be associated with this crime. But but it surely establishes Gandhi as the father. 224 00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:02,450 The act of Parasite to his return as the father of the nation, marked the transformation also of the brute force into the symbolic structure as his 225 00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:07,160 assassination became one of the founding events and the mythic structures of independent. 226 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:19,490 India, so in a way, I just want to say that it would be it easy, therefore you can say something about something about Hindutva here, 227 00:25:19,490 --> 00:25:26,390 which I don't have the time to do, but in the book it is there. But it's really it's really this killing which does these two things. 228 00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:32,030 It establishes Gandhi as a figure, which is why he's constantly complained against even by Dalits and women. 229 00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:38,870 Everyone, I mean, you know, he's always a bad father betraying father. I mean, that constantly installs him as the father is my point. 230 00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:44,360 And that installation would not be possible without as it were this this patricide. 231 00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:49,850 And finally, the more important thing here is that actually, 232 00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:58,640 it's really with his assassination that you can see that that Hindutva choirs for the first time, a public debate, a public name. 233 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,390 It was a it was a secret society up until that. Pretty much so. 234 00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:06,830 I just want to end here to actually say that, Mayakoba. 235 00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:13,280 I do think fathers are important to India and they are actually of all over the Indian political landscape. 236 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:21,770 And and this is just do I could do something more clinical, but I just thought, given that it's gone D850, it's he's everywhere. 237 00:26:21,770 --> 00:26:25,280 He's been denigrated. What can psychoanalysis bring to it? 238 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:31,616 Thank you.