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Trickling in, let me welcome you all to this special session on Tajikistan,

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an online event sponsored by the Asian Studies Centre at St Antony's College, Oxford.

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It's a pleasure to have our four speakers with us today and I shall introduce them very soon.

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Before doing so, I just want to lay out the procedure for this event,

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so we will conduct it as a conversation and then open up to questions from the audience.

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And depending on your preference, you can write in your questions anonymously in the Q&A box and someone will read them out.

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I imagine you can write them in Tajik or Russian.

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English is the language I will be reading often and or you can raise your hand function and appear on screen to speak,

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and we have a professional translator here as well.

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So feel free to ask your questions in a language that is comprehensible to the person you're asking the question to.

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So that is, as far as the procedure is concerned, this event is being recorded and it will be available online.

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So if you do not want to be identified, please make sure that when you're writing your questions,

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do so under the designation anonymous and you don't have to introduce yourself if you're asking verbally or on screen.

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So with that,

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let me begin with the introductions we have with us a really wonderful stellar panel of experts on Tajikistan and on various regions within it.

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So to begin with, we have this term within committee,

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who is chairman of the National Alliance of Tajikistan and chairman of the Islamic Renaissance Party of Tajikistan,

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the main opposition party in the country. We also have our live shows a month, also an opposition politician from that part of Tajikistan.

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We shall be discussing, in particular the province of Colon Badakhshan, which has gone under a government clampdown over the last few weeks.

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We also have from the United States to experts. We have Dr. Susan Levy Sanchez,

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who is a non-resident fellow School of International Service University and retired with 10 year associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College.

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And Dr. Edward Lemmon, research assistant professor at the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University.

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And our panellists have various levels and kinds of expertise, both in terms of can plan as a country and, as I said, on specific regions.

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So before turning to the conversation,

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what I want to do for those who may not know the country or the region well is to just start off with a short introduction.

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Tajikistan came out of the collapse of the Soviet Union in a very brutal way because it came out through the process of Civil War,

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a very destructive, violent civil war which came to an end in the late 1990s.

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When I first started going to the country and it came to an end in a negotiated settlement,

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which, as far as I can tell, left the old regime in power since then,

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and I would imagine at least since nine eleven and the war on terror,

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at which point democratisation was put off the table and authoritarian states had more room for manoeuvre.

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You have the Tajik state as it were trying to regain its or consolidate its power over the whole country.

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And one of the places this happens is the apparently or ostensibly autonomous province of corn about action a highly

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a lot the largest province in the country but very sparsely populated with a very sensitive border with Afghanistan.

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And there have been several instances of government clampdown, including the one that is just that is in progress now.

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And so we want to discuss both what is happening there and place that contemporary

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current struggle within the larger context of post-Civil War politics in Tajikistan.

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So let me begin then with within Kabila.

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If you could tell us something about your role and the role of the opposition in Tajikistan since the Civil War.

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Homeownership by South Australia's responsibility, but one boy, Jose Danger,

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dangerous mumbles, I wanted to ask you, so glad you're going to mention that.

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Well, it's two of my Boston accent. It's shipped out. Come on, the one in Charleston the first time I've actually read you just my dream homes.

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Gee whiz, I don't need you to do that as much as we should give about a budget.

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We told you so that I wasn't sure about No.19 not shoot up as it's here,

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as well as the sold to a whole lot of prejudicial or curious about my childhood trauma system.

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Unless we are always by, not by jury here, each procedure which I not tell us, I've got a motion of come on, we shall not hurry in.

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Those shall be binding toward the end of the movie. So what happened was that the case to Turkey?

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So was it your pitch as individuals? No, not at all.

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But we do need European chuckles for the good.

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I got an ego acronym that only a small number of people did show that goes directly to you when you're global and dishware.

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Well, in principle, join us under case you just time resolution when we saw how the Cold War declared that actual biological interrogation

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has tipped in some of the hope only working towards exploiting the rules by which democracy patients got a little extra,

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Liverpool were not able to their own parliament as a whole Canada austerity model, which was almost solely nastier.

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It was one that cojocaru blame.

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We will cancel the house on shaky moment, hosting a lot of carnage to each other solution already under the guise of what's happened in oil.

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That humble doctor has been your up. You've certainly got. Well, again,

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by versions of more help by the your for the storms that just as hammer buster trying after the first was about what a shot to Daniel was.

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My Belgium, Belgian royalty, children from Egypt.

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That injured chicken not worth will hurt us, the would.

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Well, I'm going to find some sort of positive orange or cheetah, my mother in law and hold a Hamas will allow him to kill you, Bashir.

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You cannot trust so much you not want than the kind of funeral arrangement China

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channels to associate Israel Handcrafted Beverage as more usual to combat danger.

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ChiNext does not achieve actual. As we go him on, that Angel must believe that in your mind, not that wholesome but kid.

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Mostly, they are still shocked to see whether he can still go to college when it's volatile in the climate issue of abortion presented towards him.

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Generally, I'm not for you. Shall I make you date capability Kane's future at coloured, which shows no way.

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So what are you in the world? No marching orders.

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We draw solely Kennedy amongst us to borrow, chairman novelist Jane Mayer writing.

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Are keen to join us for this nomination by letter for absolutely sure.

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But don't you know, in captivity traditional Typekit case,

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the judge not to judge or measure whether I'm Jackie Kennedy as well was alone going got to have to

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data contract will come on to another round Typekit solution or may still work by Ya'acov Solar as.

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But in new tragedy, Kelly gets more well in comedy for.

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Working your case to challenge hold McArdle, your solution always sort of raw, oh yeah, they you sort of reactionary, democratic,

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vocal when you're tired, but only present you as Conrad Murray in Charlotte, Missoula, Typekit or watching sunshine tomorrow.

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Now, if anybody can present your book, as long as you missed a moment, there are more.

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But what I would. On the other hand, Bush, that as much as the constituency wants no right to go into campaigns to chill out,

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so you can always cheer when you ask them as well for all your time here you have.

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But our particular has progressed as I come out of the restroom or even structures at all.

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Well, enjoy the TV after.

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I'm sure Jodi cannot Typekit beaten up in the have to of a Mexican immigrant communities would generally be a millionaire.

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Right. Do you want to write about another book to be one of the keys to chess?

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Additional ways to go, and they were all that gentle about it.

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Well, once you take your money, it was during that got me in trouble.

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Once they told me miles and was meant for me, my new mortgage was never had actually been one on which doubles as homosexual show normal.

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I move on. Got all of that I can say me tonight.

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Is that about me? I mean, she quality.

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And yet you has my million recorded, according to your house.

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Look, you have everyone else. The clock will not be allowed, no consultation on this will happen, you know, that was that 1987,

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and we are going to continue that in my mind had a routine for the present moment when I drove you on your Kenya home, Russell said.

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Rather than rest on the other end, Ross said, it was my father in law, Richard Silke.

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That's not you should but material, but came out more confidential matters,

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as does the European Union deputy attorney general of Russia conducted by the International Baccalaureate strong board.

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Surely, Mr Schaeuble, Maradona's troubled shot?

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There's no rule about how much my limits are in some of the collaboration here between channel up as well as I want in encourage those with Cuba.

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So cannot I guarantee that I will keep my sugar going up?

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I just will not cut, but should work because it's important to congratulate them and Typekit Jamal led you in for a solo.

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He too has ordered the house and it bothers. You should not assume that that the danger and only more time cardiovascular to share your Judy card key.

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But this year, I'm not sure, but I am so glad to give you a free range of each other.

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Those who cut the Rudaw how morality president accommodate companies should have followed.

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It is beginning to sold to other problems that need the House of Work.

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Typekit referendum have more recognition by opposition that are connected to shore power.

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I got more real world. Mr. Musharraf, my academician company, should cannot be tolerant of John Shushannah better as yet by himself.

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And whether I'm going to help me on this campaign is Jeb Bush Jemmy Carter on August zero,

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burrowing Gadaffi striving positive towards you in support or wisdom towards the children of the Dollar General.

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But you also may notice the whole reason for that and what not to change.

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Should you buy the goods to Chicago and Melbourne armour?

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As much to me, knowing how you differential my father, he's been at this long term is not available when he's been, as I've said, are more religious.

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You don't get bored and when you have started, you got the bulk of immoral gym archaeology, so additional may still work to take cognitive.

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But I'm positive that the followed your house, you got your and your courage that it was it not any isolated job,

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but rather more comfortable present, but also lashing, you know that you have to address the whereabouts of your opponent.

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I'm a control freak, you.

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Were very malleable and have started to bother that Michel Martin solution on the passenger barrel, you can argue that best you could actually go,

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the cloud should be resolved and it to the as bad as it was in court that led you and John,

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of course, of the programme to the advice you could give Scott.

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But come on the show, Harvard came out of that, obviously holding over last Sunday,

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Parliament told Parliament it was of the vocabulary protocol issue the Beast.

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That's OK. Is that true? Kurt Russell coming up position as on the whole doing a show?

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And he was I mean, there are almost no interpersonal Marjorie's.

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You don't have any special Milat as well within your positive busboy job, you know,

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don't want to kind of in your whole world more normal, all you're talking about.

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That was somebody who was very fast on the. I got a couple of opinion, but Dodd-Frank, it was done by the show, but it wasn't as yet.

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Ingraham's told us to guys God's warriors that there was no need for Commander Lou Bishtar position that Russian business and JSOC mass general.

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So as my late Jamie Roberts was just doing such immunity, well, the fact that he's with your goals and his view on hurum have character.

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Let your husband was go through combining Tucker Hall.

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The bus was bombed in Jacobabad offshore, but I can assure pontificates, which often will be honest with you have to learn behind your own.

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How ya doin following the Zamboni's at come on on?

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Maghrebi that somehow Richard Powers cut that way was on you to when he got then you the from.

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But there are more in mass,

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allegedly muscle and individual ground troops will come home protection on the word that if you're not comfortable the soldier as now,

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probably Kabul, that farmers union is in jeopardy. You mean Jack 800 something you have to know, my dearest.

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I'm going to find out how your mouth was in St. George, Utah.

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The start up plans to use them for handguns are going on, Michelle.

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An asteroid will come to a fragment as we start to see what I can see just as the enemy took off.

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But in a couple of numbers, why we should tell our social morality,

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but in constitutional challenge that could open sort of Nashville, which apparently got a couple of America out of step by step.

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I'm to never. Are going to post a woman amongst us, but unfortunately that's going to be tackled because good time is key in causing municipal,

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national tall, particular economic toll here. Is that hard not to hack.

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It began as best.

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Well, I'm not going to stop the guy who was on my finger making him kill our troops over to let to show that we got this strong ambition of it.

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He could have told you that when my grandmother passed in one of the most remarkable natural market for an astronaut in colour circling overhead,

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you got to go down one strategy carry out.

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When he clearly astounded all the governors had gotten a lot in last year told obviously Chuck Todd,

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since Lander Toshack reminds us of what's on the minds of voters. Kelly Mamnoon.

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I like IBD Ed, can I turn to you?

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Obviously, we cannot translate the entirety of what Mr. Carberry has just said,

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but he has gone through the history of the Civil and post-Civil War dispensation and budget.

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As Don noted, the role of its president in in resigning from his democratic commitments in

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conditions where large numbers of Tajik citizens have to be outside the country,

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economic crisis and then the clampdowns in different parts of the country.

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So, you know, I wonder if you could pick up on some of these themes and give us your your reactions to them?

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Well, thank you and welcome to Frank, who's here with us today.

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So I will not translate what Mr. Gaviria said,

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but I will make a very similar comments and talk about how we have got to the situation where in 30 years after Tajikistan's independence,

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we have a country that remains the poorest in Central Asia.

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In fact,

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GDP per capita with the rising population and stagnating incomes is actually at a 10 year low reached a 10 year low during the pandemic in 2020.

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We have a president who's ruled the country since 1992 and Amodu, where the longest serving president in the former Soviet Union.

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We have over a million plus citizens living outside the country, mostly migrant seasonal labours working in Russia,

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Turkey, elsewhere, and we have one of the most migration dependent countries in the world.

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We have a regime that rules using repression, a highly authoritarian regime and a highly corrupt and kleptocratic regime.

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The president has nine children and various others have married into his extended family,

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and they've carved up large swathes of the economy, along with dominating the political situation in the country.

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His daughter is his chief of staff.

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His son and supposed heir, Stan, is the mayor of the capital city Dushanbe, and also was elected in 2020 to be speaker of the parliament,

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which means that he should his president, should his father become incapacitated, would step into the role of the presidency.

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So according to the Constitution, he is next in line to rule the country, and we're seeing an attempted transition of power from father to son.

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To keep this kleptocratic system that's controlled by the family.

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So where do we get? How did we get here? To summarise what Mr. Capillary has just said,

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that you guessed on course was the only country in the region to experience Civil War after gaining independence 30 years ago.

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Without going into the complexities and details of that conflict, I think it's important to remember that this conflict came to an end by a negotiated

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settlement between both the current government and president and the opposition.

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They came together with the support of external partners.

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And they negotiated a settlement to this conflict by which the opposition were allocated 30 percent

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of the posts within the government that the Islamic Renaissance party of which was to be a leader,

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was legalised in 1999 and then from 2000 till 2015, was elected to parliament and had two deputies.

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That at least signalled that there was some sort of some sort of signalling that reconciliation and peace building had taken place.

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But as Mr. Cadbury explained over the past since the end of the Cold War,

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which anniversary of the Civil War, sorry, which anniversary will come next year or later this year?

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Sorry, we've seen the morning gradually consolidating his power.

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We've seen him targeting the various warlords that put him into power at the height of the Civil War.

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We've seen him gradually trying to take control of different parts of the country that were outside of his control,

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such as Threshed Valley and also Badakhshan. But I think the next two speakers will follow.

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And at the same time, we've seen him eventually cracking down on the opposition.

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Yes, we have evidence from something called practical 30 to 20 that the security services had a plan.

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Government had a plan to eventually marginalise and ban the opposition party, which they achieved in 2015,

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blaming it for a supposed coup attempt and labelling it a terrorist organisation, arresting many of the leading members and forcing others into exile.

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So by 2015, we had the end of the post reconciliation period in the country.

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At the same time, we had the president himself changing the Constitution and becoming leader of the nation,

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legally immune president for life and able to control the country even after he leaves supposedly potentially leaves the presidency.

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He would still retain that role of leader of the nation. Of course, we've seen in Kazakhstan how that transition hasn't worked out so well,

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but I think if we can firmly place his son in power, then he will be more assured of his indeed will stay within power.

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So through these various methods of combining repression against elite members of

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the elite purging the opposition from the country and promoting his own allies,

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he's managed to consolidate his power within the country over the past, certainly over the past twenty five years.

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At this point, we've ended up with the situation where we have very authoritarian country,

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ultimately, ultimately the needs of the people of Tajikistan, in many cases, not being met.

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But we will finish the handover in the next week.

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Thank you very much. And. But.

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You know, there's a lot, obviously, the can be said about the of the larger.

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Issues at play here in the country as a whole, but I'm glad you brought up Kazakhstan because of course,

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what's happening right now before our very eyes is the absorption of what appeared initially to be a kind

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of separate Tajik situation into a much larger set of conflicts and crises that include Kazakhstan,

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certainly, but also, to some degree, Ukraine in the post-Soviet space.

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And it'll be interesting to see how these two other conflicts tell upon what's happening in Beijing as thought and sort of policy directed towards it,

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both by great powers Russia in the immediate neighbourhood, in the United States and the EU, and perhaps smaller countries like Turkey.

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But, you know, we'll come back to that. I want I want to go now to Mr shows a monolith to tell us something at first.

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What's happening now in horror and in the rest of Badakhshan?

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And then perhaps you might link what's happening now to earlier instances in which the government has clamped down

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on that region and the justification it has given for these clowns and what you think of their justification.

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So when Mr. shows amount of speaks, you know, he will speak in maybe a couple of sentences and the translator will then translate directly.

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OK. Yes, Mr. Shows on. But is there something in this law?

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Yeah, young. In my book, I read the statement about such the theory that Illumina, which group would reach.

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Thank you very much, Mr. Feisal. And thank you for the opportunity to speak.

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I will try to be as brief as possible. Yeah, that's new.

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Some of US division slanging match the vision of a soldier that's part of the

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British and that's just document based on that the Mirror will between Hazelbaker.

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The EPA's leadership is that there will be some short duration, very small be to pressure administrator Michael like Nicholas Smith Group Alpha.

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Get kind of this pragmatic look at whether I should have moved on from that soon and probably blasting the selenium, but a function of pollution.

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Probably I will start from the most recent case, which took place on the 25th of Ember 2021,

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when the with the brutal murder of a 29 year old could fit into a bag of subsequent killing

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of two of the young man to additional shore and the Greens are declared by the special a

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unit of golf that belongs to the tragic KGB and which basically provoked the confrontation

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between the central government and the population of potential autonomy in the Eastern.

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But the Sun and Myanmar said of the monster, said no, do that out there,

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and they should stay active danger and sustaining the summit of a niche escalate comforts amongst them.

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I mention Star Wars. There will be some additions to be narrowly missed is still on Pardeep Shift, which will not send President Bush and go to the.

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But there's a renewed sense that I need someone to restrain and attack.

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Say so much that the media is scapegoated. Yes, that's true.

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Yeah. Stanley Khalique. I mean that sushi. This was probably the fifth or the sixth act of intimidation by Shin Bet against the

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ethnic confessional indigenous minority since the the peace agreement in 1997 was signed.

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And after the execution of the Afghan people and took the bodies to the central square in Holbrooke,

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demanding that those who were responsible for the murder would be brought into justice.

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But regrettably, the peaceful protest were also fired upon by the security forces,

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resulting in the 17 people injured, three of whom had severe injuries and left with permanent physical disabilities.

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First look to them, they actually brought the last provincial element in name.

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Yes, let me just as I do miss this because that's given oops, that's a little bit of guard to say that even a little them of an ethical beast.

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Consciously E-Pace leadership as an active Protestant Catholic school that

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live less than read have been in this area to is the idea that I'm ashamed I,

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the objective never slid. When you cut these small additional bits tacky that can write me my you.

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After the four day protest, the authorities agreed came to an agreement with protesters to include their representatives

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and representatives from the civil society into the Joint Investigation Team.

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They had to objectively investigate the killings, and however, the authorities kept referring to the protests and demonstrations as miscreants.

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So basically, they agreed to investigate the verdict.

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But at the same time, they kept naming, labelling the protesters and the demonstrate peaceful, peaceful demonstrations and mass graves.

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So mentioned this led to the beaches undermines the Nizami mindset as sled running will be struck in between as your big way to

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get flooded is going to cheat in the scans in three remaining rats when the revenue changes such that I need practise to reach.

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To date, the investigative authorities practically do not investigate the cases of murder.

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However, they are fully concentrated on the offences committed by the protesters.

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The in a group of Australian non-essential travel and Selena at Terminal Trust, think of active protests,

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don't just let you beat this Iranian in the way the stupid economy punish me is a solution.

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In addition, for almost two months, the authorities there have been harassing and demonising the population and the protesters,

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including those who were assassinated and injured, labelling them as criminals who deserved punishment.

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I'm really not an activist, but ActionScript is not going to give us the balance in the political and indigenous coverage of that.

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He just give up my training for to raise the of all that ideas running after

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he thought he was escaping the Nazi leadership with rhenium is at this time.

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Let's listen to a couple of months of just thank.

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Hunter has been declared for activists of British origin in Russia and other countries who are critical of the security forces in one way or another.

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Arbitrary detentions are taking place in the territory of the Russian Federation.

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The subsequent expulsion from this country and ending up in prisons in Tajikistan.

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I think, Mr. Kish, some literature, but something I thought of with the Iran and these are secrets out-of-body experience office with.

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And that is that you can stand really there for family was getting ready to go to the estimates of the dead cat caches.

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When I see those for me, it's never Mr. McCaslin. It's usually all what she certainly not.

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One one such case is and chosen to be chosen, the person who was deported from Russia on December 30th.

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And today he's in pre-trial detention facility of the Minister of Interior, mostly just another person and a renowned leader of the youth in Russia.

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I'm reading a literally was forcibly was subjected to enforced disappearance in Russia, and it's been 18 days to do that for years and years.

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He has disappeared and nobody knows his whereabouts and whether he is actually alive or not.

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So industrialist who is a strong proponent of Virginia's theory of living in Botswana.

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They got them fixed and don't use them as a rule, then we might ask them.

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That's why I used to drive around this stupid little patrol. But I don't know.

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Today, the security forces are forcing budgetary employees to speak on local production on television.

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And as per the pre prepared texts, which they also announced the names of certain citizens labelling them as leaders of criminal gangs and pork.

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Do my conflict this one.

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This maternal touchstone plus laughs.

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It's difficult, but it needs to stay the same, since none of you have two major conflicts, correct with one such challenging the Australian federal.

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That's to say nothing of value production, and ultimately it's a facility it will just run as that's going to continue that.

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But that shows you somebody that you're on the cover of to stop.

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What actually caused the conflict? I think despite the specific attributes of the region,

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I tend to think that the conflict was caused due to social systems, social and settlements in the first place.

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There's external as a whole is in the last four countries of the Central Asian continent in terms of GDP per capita,

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where production is the poorest region of Tajikistan. That August 12, Badakhshan time, if not, that'll be.

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But the find it hard to sustain emotional scars, that's to and that's nip.

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I don't know. Tacoma and the Dustoff Kangaroos, a product of their own, and we must.

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Said, look, it's a unit of budget cuts that no reduction is central by Rick Horrow, God don't usually use the produce to auction that.

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The internal roads in the region or in the worse possible condition,

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it's it's basically off road driving towards work and the delivery of goods to this part

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of the Republic becomes very expensive and from core onwards to the distant areas,

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gets even more expensive. It's just not soul searching, these guys brought us to New Badakhshan just after to try to feed them a fortune.

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Nisga'a got us nowhere near the is pretty modest belching bacteria.

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We can only get back in morale. So in the new day, I don't know what's the other two sets of rules.

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In the end, we see Martin is trying to eliminate the subterranean radical and yet the fortune that fortune.

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Especially the same. Internet communication is very expensive, and the traffic speed is very low, and we are also very often deprived of it.

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Whether Sean has been without the internet for a while, which for almost two months now,

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which has caused huge damage to the economy of the region, as well as in a psychological manner when parents could not reach their children.

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It's also psychologically damaged people. Regular Simon is no coherent Islam gets into proximity to this creature or shed its public gardens,

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comes out the and not only does the fact that the nonsense as the use of the chaplain is to all bless it so we can understand that.

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The region has the highest rate of unemployment and interest rates on loans of several percent higher than the national rates.

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People don't have access to finances and this one gets the impression that the region is an economic blanket blockage

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that each of us and not several other hopelessly connected just given to me from standing constitution that last

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blast better than I will get back in as much whenever Daniel Parihaka equatorial catering for the exclusive throne

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ancillaries to become addicted and burn down never stubborn as much as the mystical needs that are not built.

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He practises gives them blessed the three three afternoon meet at the Oregon.

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Since 2018, there has been virtually no constitutional authority in the region.

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Power has been placed in the hands of the so called into the Continental Commission on Establishing Law and Order,

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which includes the law enforcement agencies. The Deputy Minister of Interior Interior was appointed as the head of this commission and

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practically all the authority on the territory of the autonomy belongs to this general.

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Lisa, is it our regular features captured in Glass, this glitch in the ratings interest, did somebody get combat status?

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You think that might be a Serrano said the more of them flood the country with political rumours,

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but it's said that a little in deletion, I mean others, and they might think of those launches that hit them.

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We don't write something that's on that.

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That's a very good listener. It's OK to read procuratorates, criminal imagery, you're whatever for religion.

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It's not law Zabka, a black guy. My father, I was 34, bitter about the cigarette.

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You touched it. I know it's a heroism currently not carrying my most.

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People from and from these areas are practically alienated from power,

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and State Committee for National Security has an exclusive trust of the Centre for All Decisions of the Senate made in coordination with this body.

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Even the personnel policy, the human resources policy in the region, the chairman of the region only nominally occupies his position,

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and this is one of the reasons why there is still tension in the region.

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Our structures, prosecutors, office and courts are interested in criminal image of the region.

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Firstly, it increases the so-called bribe taking base.

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And secondly, the experience of working in the hotspots like Badakhshan becomes, for those persons, a good springboard for career growth.

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Yes, until now, the nation that such a linear. Now, some may find mischievous.

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United Nations calls that the standards set for regional partnership statute without approval.

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In fact, which involved the spirit world and the Moon.

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Is this? I intended initially to talk about the reasons of such confrontation between the centre and the economy,

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but since the format of our session does not allow this, I think it would be best to stop right here.

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Well, thank you very much. This shows Amano and the translator.

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We'll come back to these other issues, but I want to move now to Dr. Levy Sanchez.

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Suzy, if I may. You have worked in this region that Mr. Shares Amano has been describing.

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And I wonder if you could tell us your.

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Impressions of what's going on there and how you think the region's history during

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the Civil War and its geographical location play into the politics of Panopto,

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basically that the region has been suffering. Thank you for the question, and it's an honour to be here today.

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You know, I feel humbled to be in this group and to have a leader who knows the region much better than I do here in company with me,

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but I I think I have a different or maybe an outsider's perspective.

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The last time I was there, just to be clear, was the end of 2015, and it was a much different place at that time.

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So I'm going to briefly go through my interpretation of sort of the history from the Civil War and then into today.

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So during the time of the Civil War, as as there was a war, maybe right at the sort of 1993 94,

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there was what some would say a genocide against the primaries in the armies in the country.

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And then they had to. There was also economic warfare that caused mass hunger and starvation in the region and the cut off of the region.

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And that was that was used to get to the area under control.

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And then there was a group of commanders that developed during that time to work with the people,

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and they also worked across the border to get weapons and whatnot to both try to get supplies as well as fight the government.

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And so that occurred. And then the peace accords, which people have talked about.

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The 16th session that occurred and the settled negotiation negotiated agreement was supposed to allow

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going to Badakhshan to still have semi-autonomy as a region which it had had during the Soviet period,

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as well as participation in the government, which did not occur.

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And this this semi-autonomy for the region has been a contentious issue ever since.

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And as President Rahmon has tried to consolidate power more and more throughout the region,

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he has managed in various areas that were a little bit autonomous to clamp down, kill local leaders and then gain control.

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And he has now continued to try to do that in going about option.

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And in 2012, there was a conflict. 2014 2018.

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And now, today and since 2018, I think it's gotten significantly worse.

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So, you know, in 2012, in my opinion, it was largely over control over the.

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Economy of the area and competition over the drug, trade and other, there were some other shenanigans underneath as well.

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2014 it was the government once again trying to clamp down and killed two of the local leaders and then tried to use that as a ruse to get more.

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During both the 2012 and 2014 conflicts, there were.

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Again, settled agreements between civil society leaders. And the government and the agreements always work.

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The government said if you disperse, we will not go after the civil society leaders or the protesters.

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And the civil society leaders, which were branded as.

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Criminals or part of criminal gangs, we're actually most of them were not.

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In fact, I don't know that any of them were. Some of them had served in the Taji government.

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Some had been politicians like Aleem. And I think that.

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Instead of leaving them alone, they chased many of them out of the country.

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They put them on lists. There were black lists during the 2012 protests.

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There were pictures of people in the airport on the black list 2014.

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They went after several of the protesters. And recently, in 2020, the same thing happened.

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So in 2014, they threat. There was protesters in the main square that had camped out for 12 days, and the government threatened.

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If they did not disperse, they would shoot into the group.

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So Commander Care came out and he said, you know, along with the civil society leaders and said,

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we've come to a settled agreement, you need to disperse now. But the government did not follow through on any of the agreements come to 2020.

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This time, they actually did shoot into the crowd, as people had feared would be kind of like an undeserving, you know, in.

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Uzbekistan and I think. They promised once again that they would investigate the the the two murdered Gulbadin Zeo back off

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and they promised they would restore internet and they promised to not go after the protesters.

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This time different from last time they've actually gone after more of the civil society leaders as well as the commanders,

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and they've even then gone, and they in the primaries in Croke have gotten support from both neighbouring districts as well as from Moscow.

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And so I think that there was a thought that they had some safe passage for safe space in Moscow,

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which has turned out not to be true because I'm reading in many ways had united the youth there.

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To help protest against what was going on in Iraq, and now he's been kidnapped basically or arrested at the border of Ukraine and silenced.

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So bringing it into today. I think that right now.

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From what I've heard, there's competition within the Tajik government for power and control on various levels,

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and the Palmyra's in some ways are being used as a pawn in that game to an extent.

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I think the other big challenge for today's conflict that I, I find very concerning is both China and Russia's role.

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Russia allegedly has the Wagner Group in the former Qarabag area in the hills, and forget the new name Shaheen Shamsuddin herself, the new name.

383
00:52:52,680 --> 00:53:04,710
And but also, you know, China allegedly is building this funding a new base and education, and then it has a base in above more gob.

384
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:10,530
And it is allegedly.

385
00:53:10,530 --> 00:53:23,010
During joint trainings as as Russia is, and I think the fear there is that both Putin and Xi Jinping are supporting the authoritarian regime,

386
00:53:23,010 --> 00:53:29,670
and there is a desire to gain control of what President Ramon keeps saying are these criminal gangs

387
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:35,130
and these hooligans and they're going to join with Janmaat Ansarullah and become Islamic extremists,

388
00:53:35,130 --> 00:53:40,080
which, you know, of course there is not. And then recently, a few days ago,

389
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:54,840
His Highness the Aga Khan actually came out in support of peace in the region and asked the people to respect peace and to.

390
00:53:54,840 --> 00:54:01,170
Not engage in rumour or fighting, et cetera. And.

391
00:54:01,170 --> 00:54:10,320
You know, in his in his talk, I have I I suspect that he had had a conversation, potentially with the president of Tajikistan.

392
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:16,290
And but I don't know that. And that there may have been some kind of negotiated something.

393
00:54:16,290 --> 00:54:20,710
And so for now, there might.

394
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:31,870
Not be the military incursion that many have feared, but others fear that the KGB is not in the region is not what the G can be,

395
00:54:31,870 --> 00:54:39,430
is not completely in line with the current government. So there's there's it's hard to say what will happen.

396
00:54:39,430 --> 00:54:44,950
And then I think lastly, the Afghan side of the border that plays into this.

397
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:54,130
I don't think that the Afghan side of the border posé in the Taliban government is any actual real danger to Tajikistan at this point.

398
00:54:54,130 --> 00:54:57,340
But that clearly does not stop Russia,

399
00:54:57,340 --> 00:55:09,420
China and the Tajik government from stating that it is and using it and exaggerating what is there and what is going on.

400
00:55:09,420 --> 00:55:13,920
I think I'm going to leave it there. Thank you very much. That really is fascinating.

401
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:18,990
You know what you say about the Archons possible negotiations with the government?

402
00:55:18,990 --> 00:55:26,610
And of course, in a way that's kind of the repetition of what did happen earlier on in the last days of the Civil War.

403
00:55:26,610 --> 00:55:32,580
And it seemed to have held the peace for a bit, but was gradually, as you yourself describe it, winnowed away.

404
00:55:32,580 --> 00:55:44,280
So it's not clear whether a future negotiations will do anything more than, you know, hold an ever more precarious peace.

405
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:45,420
The other thing you mentioned,

406
00:55:45,420 --> 00:55:54,030
which is really fascinating because of the internationalisation of the conflict and in the 90s it was not internationalised,

407
00:55:54,030 --> 00:55:58,260
at least not in the same way. Just, yeah, a little bit.

408
00:55:58,260 --> 00:56:06,390
Of course, that was the those are the last days of the Taliban, but it's in their first incarnation and of in the back.

409
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:10,290
So there's a strange logic of repetition here going on.

410
00:56:10,290 --> 00:56:17,520
But of course, I suppose the big difference is that today, unlike in the 90s, you have a relatively speaking,

411
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:24,480
an extensive Palmyra diaspora in many parts of the world that always existed in Russia,

412
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:29,040
perhaps to even more in Russia than they are than they were at the time.

413
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:37,770
And we see that they actually take to the streets and protest in front of Tajik embassies in different parts of the world in the EU and the U.S.,

414
00:56:37,770 --> 00:56:44,700
et cetera. So it's it's difficult to keep that genie in the bottle again.

415
00:56:44,700 --> 00:56:48,810
But I wonder if you could say something about the combination of these two things

416
00:56:48,810 --> 00:56:55,080
that there is now a vocal and relatively youthful diaspora internationally.

417
00:56:55,080 --> 00:57:02,070
And secondly, that the international situation you mentioned Russia, China, et cetera, has on the one hand,

418
00:57:02,070 --> 00:57:08,970
it seems to, as you say, support the government's view on Badakhshan, on the other hand.

419
00:57:08,970 --> 00:57:15,010
One wonders if there's any possibility of the internationalisation of the region going in another direction,

420
00:57:15,010 --> 00:57:20,250
and I want to bring ED in on this as well later.

421
00:57:20,250 --> 00:57:24,040
And then of course, you know, Mr. Shows a lot of that.

422
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:33,030
Mr. Kamberi on whether it might be possible as happened in the past when there was

423
00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:38,820
conceived to be a special relationship between the Palmeiro's and Russia that,

424
00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:42,630
you know, is Russia always likely to side with the government?

425
00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:54,050
Or might it also be interested in? Assuming the role of a mediator to deal with this conflict, I mean, that's an entirely open question,

426
00:57:54,050 --> 00:58:03,170
but perhaps if you can, Susan, just say something about the novelty of the current situation with the diasporan, etc.?

427
00:58:03,170 --> 00:58:13,290
Yeah, I mean, there's I think there's several layers, right? The primaries in Moscow, particularly under unredeemed.

428
00:58:13,290 --> 00:58:21,090
Oh, it's joy of. Had grown more powerful, and I think that from what I understand,

429
00:58:21,090 --> 00:58:31,770
talking to various people that this is going to continue and that there are there's a pretty active group there that is organising.

430
00:58:31,770 --> 00:58:40,620
And I also had heard when the phone lines were cut in the area that that some of

431
00:58:40,620 --> 00:58:45,210
the primaries had coordinated with those in Moscow to begin to send supplies,

432
00:58:45,210 --> 00:58:49,290
medical food, et cetera, to the area in case they cut it off completely.

433
00:58:49,290 --> 00:58:52,410
So I think that Diaspora is very strong.

434
00:58:52,410 --> 00:59:02,170
I also think there's the Diaspora, which is within the larger academic community in the UK and Canada, U.S., Germany.

435
00:59:02,170 --> 00:59:14,940
And there's there's various activists and scholars from the region, as well as from Tajikistan, like Kabir's position and alliums that that.

436
00:59:14,940 --> 00:59:25,830
And you know, and those how people have strong voices and they're not going to just let it go and they also have some protection,

437
00:59:25,830 --> 00:59:29,010
but they're also on at the same time at great risk.

438
00:59:29,010 --> 00:59:38,700
Obviously, you know, we had the the killing in the streets in Turkey and and this recent kidnapping of a couple of leaders.

439
00:59:38,700 --> 00:59:49,500
So that's one thing. The other thing is, will Russia provide a mediation role?

440
00:59:49,500 --> 00:59:56,520
I'm going to read the tea leaves because I have no idea, but I think that it's possible for sure.

441
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:02,380
I think that Russia has often. Almost.

442
01:00:02,380 --> 01:00:07,330
Played both against the other to have control in the region.

443
01:00:07,330 --> 01:00:08,800
And while that's a negative,

444
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:18,310
it could become a positive in the sense that they want to have more control and so they're not going to give over to one or the other completely.

445
01:00:18,310 --> 01:00:29,540
And they also want to have a say in what in some of the trade coming out of Afghanistan, I think is also part of it.

446
01:00:29,540 --> 01:00:41,710
So they have to work both with the Tajik government, but they also don't want to see complete civil unrest because that would disrupt.

447
01:00:41,710 --> 01:00:46,030
Both the stability in the region as well as the flow of trade and whatnot.

448
01:00:46,030 --> 01:00:50,650
So it may not make sense. China has very different, I think, goals in the region.

449
01:00:50,650 --> 01:01:02,690
It wants stability and wants complete control. It wants to feel, I mean, in my opinion, it wants to feel like the region is part of its larger.

450
01:01:02,690 --> 01:01:10,040
Outer periphery, it wants to gain control of the mineral resources,

451
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:15,530
and I think it will support the government's both the Taliban and the government of

452
01:01:15,530 --> 01:01:23,900
Tajikistan to get the amount of stability it needs to be able to get the resources it wants.

453
01:01:23,900 --> 01:01:31,500
And I think it will do that by any means necessary, in my opinion, given how the figures are being treated.

454
01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:35,470
And I think the fear of the, you know,

455
01:01:35,470 --> 01:01:46,280
the fear of some kind of translation of the wigger situation into the primaries depending on the influence of China,

456
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:51,470
I don't think is completely unfounded, but I also think it's almost impossible there.

457
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:56,860
And the last thing I'll say about that is the Aga Khan.

458
01:01:56,860 --> 01:02:01,360
His influence, as well as the Aga Khan development network,

459
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:14,960
institutions in the region provide a balance to the authoritarian cloud that covers the region, and I do think many in the region are scared that.

460
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:21,200
This will be chased out because the authoritarian dictators don't want that influence in the region.

461
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:28,850
On the other hand, it provides an infusion of stability and funding and development to the region that nobody else is providing.

462
01:02:28,850 --> 01:02:34,000
And it would cause instability at the border if there were to be rid of that.

463
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,250
It's does that. I hope that I'm sorry if I rambled. No, no.

464
01:02:37,250 --> 01:02:39,950
I think that's, you know, that's what's very interesting.

465
01:02:39,950 --> 01:02:51,380
So in a way, so much depends upon what happens in Afghanistan, U.S. policy towards the new Taliban government.

466
01:02:51,380 --> 01:03:00,170
And you know what the Chinese and Russians do there, because that's the border that, of course, directly abuts.

467
01:03:00,170 --> 01:03:05,800
But the Chinese, so it really is inevitably an international situation now.

468
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:16,790
And we couldn't place this curious role of being both as it were inciting the suspicions of the government,

469
01:03:16,790 --> 01:03:24,500
while at the same time trying to tamp down on any civil society protests.

470
01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:31,490
Therefore, strangely seems to represent both the government on the one hand and civil society on the other,

471
01:03:31,490 --> 01:03:35,120
which is an impossible role for any NGO to play.

472
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:47,280
But can I move on to Mr. Carberry on this, on this very question of Russian intervention and mediation?

473
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:51,560
So can I just add one tiny thing to the Arcadian situation?

474
01:03:51,560 --> 01:04:01,070
One sentence, which is I think there's a split inside the ones who support the government and the ones who are trying to maintain neutrality,

475
01:04:01,070 --> 01:04:06,510
and that's been a struggle for a while. Interesting.

476
01:04:06,510 --> 01:04:13,010
Mr. Kabeer, any more thoughts on Russia and whether you will have any interactions with them on this matter?

477
01:04:13,010 --> 01:04:21,980
Thank you. Press on the I didn't fully agree with Suzanne what she said a little bit about Russia's role.

478
01:04:21,980 --> 01:04:27,490
I want to add that Russia is not interested just in.

479
01:04:27,490 --> 01:04:37,530
The new conflict in post-Soviet area after Kazakhstan, where levels of crime and you.

480
01:04:37,530 --> 01:04:50,430
Conflict in Tajikistan, and I think that it's just too much for for Russia to be to be everywhere with troops as mediator,

481
01:04:50,430 --> 01:05:03,720
although, for example, in Kazakhstan there wasn't no mediation and there was direct to operate operation.

482
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:10,560
So it will be very difficult to control the situation in our region.

483
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:21,540
But it doesn't mean that there are not any cooperation between Russia and Tajikistan on primaries or on its activities.

484
01:05:21,540 --> 01:05:31,560
You know, this two case was just shown before, and it shows us that they are very good.

485
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:45,690
Good cooperation between security borders for touch from Tajikistan and Russia without Russia's intelligence service, which is tragic.

486
01:05:45,690 --> 01:05:53,250
Dortmund could not kidnapped boss and or deported Tajiks.

487
01:05:53,250 --> 01:06:11,460
So I think that Russia play now two games, one good cooperation with the tragic governments on security and against all activists,

488
01:06:11,460 --> 01:06:19,800
opposition groups and same time Russia will keep stability in the region.

489
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:25,020
And let us not forget that Russia and Russia,

490
01:06:25,020 --> 01:06:38,190
its very unique and special question because before it ended a period in before Bush's Russia in Terror had limited troops,

491
01:06:38,190 --> 01:06:51,600
military groups in Badakhshan, so many of Russian expressed till now speaking about this historical moment.

492
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:58,110
So I think that so to Russia.

493
01:06:58,110 --> 01:07:08,160
I am not sure that Russia can play the role of moderator also to bring both sides of the table

494
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:20,370
because Rahman is not really talking to any third party to be involved in Tajik groups just now.

495
01:07:20,370 --> 01:07:27,720
Thank you very much. Yes, no, it's a series of conundrums, isn't it?

496
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:29,670
You know what can and cannot be done?

497
01:07:29,670 --> 01:07:37,350
You know, the paradox is, on the one hand, the German government cannot survive, as you say, without Russian support.

498
01:07:37,350 --> 01:07:46,560
On the other hand, the Russians are unable to actually impose themselves or perhaps unwilling to impose themselves on Tajikistan,

499
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:51,240
perhaps unless the situation in Afghanistan warrants it.

500
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:58,440
Ed, what do you think? Do you have any view on this sort of larger international dimension of the conflict?

501
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:04,690
I think Russia would. If it had to intervene in a conflict in horror,

502
01:08:04,690 --> 01:08:09,240
if it was a conflict between the local population and the government, it would be in a difficult position.

503
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:17,160
I think Russia remains popular in the country for the most part, especially since, as Suzanne said.

504
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:26,400
And if Russia was seen to be intervening against the Tajik population, I think that would present it with with the challenges going forward.

505
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:34,080
I think Russia is more likely to intervene in the case of a spill-over of terrorism from Afghanistan.

506
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:37,110
And certainly, there were fears at the time of the situation,

507
01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:47,820
recent situation in Kazakhstan that there would be a similar operation in hock that the government would effectively launch some sort of provocation.

508
01:08:47,820 --> 01:08:55,650
They would frame the incident as being a spill-over from Afghanistan and that they would call on their international partners to intervene.

509
01:08:55,650 --> 01:09:02,250
I think that obviously hasn't happened, but I think, you know, unless unless it was framed as some sort of spill-over from Afghanistan,

510
01:09:02,250 --> 01:09:12,430
I think Russia and Russia would struggle to justify its intervention in what could be framed as a domestic domestic dispute.

511
01:09:12,430 --> 01:09:19,210
No, thanks. I mean, one wonders also going back to what Mr. Chavez was saying earlier about,

512
01:09:19,210 --> 01:09:24,670
you know, how much air is left in this narrative of Islamic militancy,

513
01:09:24,670 --> 01:09:36,550
given the decline of the kind of war on terror and the the strange happenings in Afghanistan where the Taliban now to be or,

514
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:46,150
I assume, will be recognised as a government. In any case, these negotiations with all kinds of powers, including the United States,

515
01:09:46,150 --> 01:09:53,470
saw what seemed to worked after 9-11 to label both the Renaissance party as an Islamist party,

516
01:09:53,470 --> 01:10:03,660
which is laughable, of course, but also to gesture towards Afghanistan and what is happening there and the commanders that Susie was speaking about.

517
01:10:03,660 --> 01:10:05,410
You know, I don't know.

518
01:10:05,410 --> 01:10:14,020
I'm sure many people didn't believe any of it in the region, but I wonder how believable any of this is in internationally any longer, either.

519
01:10:14,020 --> 01:10:19,270
So, you know, one wonders if there's a new narrative that's necessary or maybe there isn't,

520
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:24,460
you know, maybe the government will just soldier on with what it has, and it doesn't.

521
01:10:24,460 --> 01:10:33,460
It doesn't matter. I think if recent events in Kazakhstan are anything to go by where the government blamed the unrest on 20000 terrorists,

522
01:10:33,460 --> 01:10:38,500
foreign sponsored terrorist, that was how they obviously legitimised the Collective Security Treaty Organisation.

523
01:10:38,500 --> 01:10:45,640
Intervening with that, peacekeeping forces at least Russia and China in their posturing and their narrative very much fought,

524
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:50,170
publicly bought into that reason reaffirmed by those who say they actually believe that,

525
01:10:50,170 --> 01:10:56,470
or whether the people on the ground in these countries believe it as well is probably less likely.

526
01:10:56,470 --> 01:11:02,480
But certainly, it seems that outwardly at least the two great powers on the borders of the region,

527
01:11:02,480 --> 01:11:09,410
Russia and China are happy to continue to turn this narrative of extremists and terrorists.

528
01:11:09,410 --> 01:11:12,610
And we've seen the government continuing governments throughout the region,

529
01:11:12,610 --> 01:11:19,870
continuing to use this spectre of terrorism and extremism to legitimise various arrests and clamp down on opposition.

530
01:11:19,870 --> 01:11:24,220
So certainly, we've seen the continued politicisation of counter extremism.

531
01:11:24,220 --> 01:11:28,930
I wouldn't think it's going to go anytime soon. Yes, of course you're right.

532
01:11:28,930 --> 01:11:33,970
And the Chinese also do that in Xinjiang.

533
01:11:33,970 --> 01:11:39,310
Susie was mentioning, We have a question till most talansky.

534
01:11:39,310 --> 01:11:48,570
Would you like to ask it in person or do you want me to read it out?

535
01:11:48,570 --> 01:11:55,920
OK, I will read it out, since I don't. Hear from you.

536
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,030
So thanks to all speakers, I have a question to the production experts.

537
01:12:00,030 --> 01:12:06,150
What is your interpretation of the glorifies soaps dismissal as governor of going about action?

538
01:12:06,150 --> 01:12:11,400
I have heard context in the region talk about his impending political comeback.

539
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:18,990
Others have referred to his dismissal as final and perhaps a reappearance in the icon institutions.

540
01:12:18,990 --> 01:12:34,830
I would appreciate your opinion on this. Many thanks. So shall we begin with Mr. shows the monologue and then move on to your comments, Susie.

541
01:12:34,830 --> 01:12:39,970
I think they should interpret the question to the element that would.

542
01:12:39,970 --> 01:12:50,550
Yes, please respond. I deal most to landscapes, brush with the movie.

543
01:12:50,550 --> 01:13:01,870
I'd be silly. Well, who'd you'd go to? Pfizer is buster of a good old in the summer on some issues,

544
01:13:01,870 --> 01:13:16,780
still use to use nuclear stone was most very notes of political games lukewarm as that one was in contravention in the bush,

545
01:13:16,780 --> 01:13:30,960
who is politically has moved on the notion that Rambo two was on a visit to Kabul, who went on board.

546
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:45,580
The new political group at the venue will political, you could even take the.

547
01:13:45,580 --> 01:13:54,150
It's a it's a controversy for. It's a it's a little controversial.

548
01:13:54,150 --> 01:14:02,640
A person can return to politics if he was actually in politics, but in case of the other phase, he wasn't part of the politics of thought.

549
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:14,130
He was just appointed as a figure which didn't really decided on wilful tenure of the candidate will last.

550
01:14:14,130 --> 01:14:21,640
It's interesting. Plus this British is just over good. Those they would not forget the.

551
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:30,510
You should the Shinya, probably me, Harold.

552
01:14:30,510 --> 01:14:46,710
The central government is trying to find a force for a simple way of solving the the problems in Coral in Gordon, but offshore since 2006.

553
01:14:46,710 --> 01:14:59,280
It is that if don't just let that issue was in the kitchen to live that nuts, they were the ones who the you.

554
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:07,230
Jemmy Lee must have seemed to have some isolated promoters who.

555
01:15:07,230 --> 01:15:18,000
So and in the same manner as it was in 2015 to 2018, and for this specific period of three years,

556
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:24,320
we have been demonised by the central government and law enforcement.

557
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:35,490
He is the last one, the ROG Phone three in the world and in many new voters on the scene in that area.

558
01:15:35,490 --> 01:15:47,120
And when the president arrived in Hollywood in 2018, he officially demanded from law enforcements with the use of power to settle things down.

559
01:15:47,120 --> 01:16:06,070
He told me to eat the Chiquita Summit meeting, Ramona Akinyele support to eat the rich leaked menu is shown in the first to show me the stuff.

560
01:16:06,070 --> 01:16:11,010
That's not so much, to be sure.

561
01:16:11,010 --> 01:16:15,970
Mid-Ulster that made it to its.

562
01:16:15,970 --> 01:16:18,790
Narrow Zealand, certainly narrow.

563
01:16:18,790 --> 01:16:29,590
You showed the premium left centre stack, this nifty showed the very same area through the lyrics and through the nostalgia.

564
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:33,700
Still, the bowling ball isn't an achievement.

565
01:16:33,700 --> 01:16:39,550
They're not standards the ship probably wouldn't allow them. Back then,

566
01:16:39,550 --> 01:16:49,660
someone from his advisers apparently assessed the situation and advised him that this is not a favourable

567
01:16:49,660 --> 01:17:01,750
moment for us since the people is they do not really trust in the government and in law enforcement,

568
01:17:01,750 --> 01:17:05,950
and it might not end up in a favourable way.

569
01:17:05,950 --> 01:17:16,610
That's who we actually want to. He put a stop to your good faith, and that's led me.

570
01:17:16,610 --> 01:17:29,300
Let's let the correct balance as a chuckle as Lightning, which I googled the viral video Serena has no we trust in the Selena.

571
01:17:29,300 --> 01:17:42,110
It's incredibly blasted. Please go. Fans of four has not let that rule but get to the virtual dress leadership of a third party celebrity appearance.

572
01:17:42,110 --> 01:17:50,950
Yes, what that's gonna do is that they let us now know we must have narrowed the affection, Naseeruddin.

573
01:17:50,950 --> 01:17:53,830
So in this moment, your go to phrase,

574
01:17:53,830 --> 01:18:06,160
it was basically used as a tool in order to win the trust of the general public towards the the central government.

575
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:18,400
So he was used to divide the the general masses from the so called the criminal gangs.

576
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:27,670
You and me, that's a bit of a go to should history go, that I need to finish thoughts on cities about this province,

577
01:18:27,670 --> 01:18:33,270
not just the opposite mozna, but this part is not a sheep problem.

578
01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:38,150
Still having the method, I mean, it does support life.

579
01:18:38,150 --> 01:18:48,730
Five Mission in Chicago, which might have virtually any opinion on my group in the cylinder,

580
01:18:48,730 --> 01:19:02,830
is sure and very nice to bring up British law, but it's the news that is troubling but has enough signal.

581
01:19:02,830 --> 01:19:13,130
So since his appointment in 2018, and now it's been three years since the government decided that now it's a it's a high time

582
01:19:13,130 --> 01:19:21,380
to to basically take on the military resolution of the problem and go on a better showing.

583
01:19:21,380 --> 01:19:31,040
He was dismissed and apparently those in the government still believe that it's a good decision and they

584
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:41,640
keep demonising a certain portion of the public and keep using the force in order to solve the problems.

585
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:48,750
I nearly finished training the most nights, I don't imagine ferocious,

586
01:19:48,750 --> 01:20:00,750
ferocious Ferrucci lasted longer than any patrol team have had the most emotional animal to method the means.

587
01:20:00,750 --> 01:20:04,770
I start with the.

588
01:20:04,770 --> 01:20:22,080
The study, Majesty Savoy, the period that gets in as part of the young you'll is not much exclusive arrogance, which I it's a perfectly.

589
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:32,070
So the government basically decided that they do not they know more needs this image will fade just and good government,

590
01:20:32,070 --> 01:20:38,850
and they can use the power and order to put in place the order that they need,

591
01:20:38,850 --> 01:20:47,160
which is contrary to the order of all of the state and per the Constitution and other

592
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:54,990
norms and the order that they managed to put in place in all the regions of Tajikistan.

593
01:20:54,990 --> 01:21:03,850
But in Badakhshan, from time to time, they still face some resistance.

594
01:21:03,850 --> 01:21:14,830
You what I need is surely you need a really strong and those votes, abortion votes negative, go to Facebook.

595
01:21:14,830 --> 01:21:19,440
Cassettes of us were saying I would go to phase of any record.

596
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:27,210
I would go to phase of our political year that there was one to talk the on the future starter position.

597
01:21:27,210 --> 01:21:32,210
Even though I'm not only it, the.

598
01:21:32,210 --> 01:21:37,100
Very peacefully immune that.

599
01:21:37,100 --> 01:21:49,400
In terms of the gold files, a return to politics, you can actually do that all in one case, if you will join the opposition forces.

600
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:54,620
In other cases, there will be no other chances for.

601
01:21:54,620 --> 01:22:03,660
Thank you very much. Very, very interesting set of comments. I want to turn to you, Susie, for your views.

602
01:22:03,660 --> 01:22:08,890
You know what Mr. Schurz Amano has been saying is?

603
01:22:08,890 --> 01:22:17,110
Displays what you had suggested earlier, the internal cleavages within whether HD and or civil society.

604
01:22:17,110 --> 01:22:27,870
I had heard that they may even be that approach from people in the bombers to the president's son, who is mayor, as Ed tells us of Dushanbe.

605
01:22:27,870 --> 01:22:33,580
You know, so there seems to be an attempt to play off factions within the government itself.

606
01:22:33,580 --> 01:22:51,010
So your factions on all sides of this fence? You know, what do you think is happening on this very particular question that Tim has asked?

607
01:22:51,010 --> 01:23:00,760
Yet on Mutual says, I'm trying to figure out which parts to add in here, Alan gave a very fulsome answer.

608
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:07,240
I think your guard flies off. I completely agree with Elaine was more of a puppet or figurehead.

609
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:17,950
I think that the government from his embezzlement, you know, his issues prior from his prior position, they kind of had a complete hold over him.

610
01:23:17,950 --> 01:23:29,550
So he was a perfect governor to have in place the current acting governor, governor of going about action, former General Myers and Myers.

611
01:23:29,550 --> 01:23:37,670
No, Bartok's is a disciple from what I understand of the Optima. And that's where I think.

612
01:23:37,670 --> 01:23:48,440
The internal split becomes important, and the problem is my information about the internal split is largely based on conjecture, rumour, et cetera.

613
01:23:48,440 --> 01:23:58,850
So I go into my discussion of this with that caveat that that I don't have enough information, but I do think it's it's important to understand it.

614
01:23:58,850 --> 01:24:08,750
I think there's a. From what I understand, the president's family was trying to push you to move out.

615
01:24:08,750 --> 01:24:14,930
Yeah, Thomas was not going to be pushed out and has his own power.

616
01:24:14,930 --> 01:24:21,600
In fact, from what I understand, he has his own. Network Connexions to Russia and China.

617
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:29,190
So, so he has some outside support and.

618
01:24:29,190 --> 01:24:37,470
He. And we put this the.

619
01:24:37,470 --> 01:24:46,050
There was also some competition over the illicit trade networks and your time off caused

620
01:24:46,050 --> 01:24:51,750
some problems along those networks in order to show that he still had some authority.

621
01:24:51,750 --> 01:25:00,870
And from what I understand, that was also part of the reason of bringing getting Pfizer out so that the prosecutor could

622
01:25:00,870 --> 01:25:07,170
go in caused sort of a conflict in Iraq and distract from the issue of getting rid of Yatta.

623
01:25:07,170 --> 01:25:21,540
If I'm making sense here. And what that did from what I understand is actually unite a Zada, the daughter and and the mayor rustam a little more.

624
01:25:21,540 --> 01:25:32,920
And against Yakima, whereas they were not as united before and Mr. Marley may have been a little more of.

625
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:38,590
Someone to go to, I hadn't heard that the palm trees had gone to him, but I can I can understand that.

626
01:25:38,590 --> 01:25:45,680
So I guess overall when I look at the picture size of was used as a puppet.

627
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:52,220
They put in someone else to have an excuse to say, now we're going to go after this guy, which caused a conflict.

628
01:25:52,220 --> 01:26:01,300
It actually strengthened your team's position, which was weakened. United parts of the Tajik family and then.

629
01:26:01,300 --> 01:26:07,940
Now, it's hard to say where that competition is going again, conjecture, rumour and.

630
01:26:07,940 --> 01:26:15,560
And we're fired off whether he's coming back or not will depend on and there was a recent meeting with Pfizer still there,

631
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:24,890
asked Jamal's brother and the Tajik government about going to Badakhshan and about getting rid of these criminal leaders.

632
01:26:24,890 --> 01:26:32,810
So far his office. And along with children, my office are deeply in that camp.

633
01:26:32,810 --> 01:26:40,250
And and so I suppose it just depends on where your grandfather's office usefulness at this point would be,

634
01:26:40,250 --> 01:26:47,450
and I think Eileen's point that if he's going to have any legitimacy. In terms of production at all.

635
01:26:47,450 --> 01:26:52,910
I completely agree that he'd have to join the opposition, but.

636
01:26:52,910 --> 01:26:57,410
That would be pretty tricky for him. Thank you very much so.

637
01:26:57,410 --> 01:26:59,090
In the few minutes left.

638
01:26:59,090 --> 01:27:10,640
If anyone has any questions, please write it in the Q&A box or raise your hand and I will call upon you should you want to speak.

639
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:17,260
You know this discussion as it has proceeded, it's very interesting because it shows where.

640
01:27:17,260 --> 01:27:25,000
All the kind of doors off as little constitutional dissent are shut.

641
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:34,690
Opposition seems to move into families and operate through factions and through instrumental ization of various factions,

642
01:27:34,690 --> 01:27:38,950
so it never entirely goes away as it were internalised and fragments.

643
01:27:38,950 --> 01:27:49,930
Groups from within. And you know, Susie, one of the things you just mentioned now is it seems to be the major force

644
01:27:49,930 --> 01:27:54,940
that allows all of these factional relations to splinter or to come together.

645
01:27:54,940 --> 01:28:05,050
And that is the democratic civil society on the street kinds of demonstrations that we see in Krog,

646
01:28:05,050 --> 01:28:12,460
which are extraordinary as far as I know, you don't see them much in post-Soviet space.

647
01:28:12,460 --> 01:28:16,540
And they've been going on for a while for years.

648
01:28:16,540 --> 01:28:24,850
Yeah. People managed to come together to cut down trees to stop, you know, armoured vehicles and all the rest.

649
01:28:24,850 --> 01:28:34,480
In a society which itself otherwise seems to be quite actualised, my neighbourhood and language and all the rest, where is this tradition coming from?

650
01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:39,250
It's, you know, it really is entirely extraordinary.

651
01:28:39,250 --> 01:28:50,230
And and one reason why I defend myself personally to deprecate cause to, you know, let's not demonstrate and maybe things will get much better.

652
01:28:50,230 --> 01:28:53,560
Is that rather, Nick, I agree with you. I don't think they will get better.

653
01:28:53,560 --> 01:29:03,130
But also the demonstration allows for the splintering fragmentation and cut endoscopic remaking of relations all across the country.

654
01:29:03,130 --> 01:29:08,230
And that's really something that you don't see anywhere else in the country, as far as I know.

655
01:29:08,230 --> 01:29:17,950
So, you know, perhaps you could say something briefly about that, and I want to turn to Mr Carberry to respond to this as well.

656
01:29:17,950 --> 01:29:24,970
Yeah, I think it is remarkable. I mean, I've written about what I call the informal organisations extensively,

657
01:29:24,970 --> 01:29:33,610
but I think in general, they continually remake themselves with a courage and veracity.

658
01:29:33,610 --> 01:29:39,640
Despite the crackdowns and the civil society leaders in combination with the Diaspora,

659
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:45,370
in combination with the commanders and the people within the community,

660
01:29:45,370 --> 01:29:53,740
whether it's within the different with the educational community within these sort of under groups, within the akkadian.

661
01:29:53,740 --> 01:30:00,790
And they do all come together. And you're right, the factionalism goes down to, you know, little fights between street leaders.

662
01:30:00,790 --> 01:30:11,820
But when it comes to this, all those facts, they they transcend all of that and they have these demonstrations, which I agree is.

663
01:30:11,820 --> 01:30:23,280
It's it's a form of. Civil society and public engagement that you wouldn't CNN authoritarian dictatorship,

664
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:30,030
and they're forcing almost a democratisation of the public sphere regardless of the risk.

665
01:30:30,030 --> 01:30:37,920
It's it's it's I think it's pretty profound in a region where that that I mean, look at what happened in Kazakhstan.

666
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:41,970
People protested and they brought in Russia and the CSTO and everything else.

667
01:30:41,970 --> 01:30:48,420
It's not like Tajikistan doesn't do that, but the people continue. If that I don't, I hope that answered your question.

668
01:30:48,420 --> 01:30:53,360
Well, thank you, Mr. Comey. Do you think that?

669
01:30:53,360 --> 01:31:01,310
The model of civil society resistance that you see in the primaries is impossible in other parts of the country

670
01:31:01,310 --> 01:31:08,000
for various reasons because they are low lying and it much easier to get to and much easier to control.

671
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:20,250
Or do you think you know what happens in the primaries might have some influence in that lawn or in the car and more in other parts of the country?

672
01:31:20,250 --> 01:31:29,830
You know, first of all, I'm not sure that's what happens in front of you, I'm here now for some couple of years.

673
01:31:29,830 --> 01:31:38,220
Real soon we will have seen in other parts of Tajikistan cut blowing in some fashion or not.

674
01:31:38,220 --> 01:31:47,720
I'm not sure, but it's first time. That's all projects robust.

675
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:58,520
I'm going to solve the Cooler Korea and Cutler, even from migration just.

676
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:11,470
All of these people, the first time their world behind or together with prime minister is just last last event, last November and December.

677
01:32:11,470 --> 01:32:20,960
I think that it is a very important signal. That before was the problem of families is the problem.

678
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:29,840
I mean, this problem of, I repeat, it's the problem of identity and as a secular parties later it was in prison.

679
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:32,480
All of the parties groups said, OK, it is appropriate.

680
01:32:32,480 --> 01:32:43,940
As I said, even in 2012, two thousand fourteen, the same problems problem was not so important, for example.

681
01:32:43,940 --> 01:32:53,120
Well, I repeat, you find other opposition groups. But now this situation has changed so we can discuss why.

682
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:56,780
What is the five main factors?

683
01:32:56,780 --> 01:33:12,680
But the fact is that all opposition groups of migrants and a lot of people in the in the struggle Zsa Zsa Zsa are trying to show their sympathy,

684
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:18,200
their support, moral support for families and.

685
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:27,270
So I think it's very important to get. That really is no, that's hugely consequential, I entirely agree.

686
01:33:27,270 --> 01:33:34,140
Ed, perhaps you can say something about the effect or not effect of what's happening in the primaries,

687
01:33:34,140 --> 01:33:44,820
in other parts of the country and whether you see the possibility or the desire for, if you will, more democratic governance.

688
01:33:44,820 --> 01:33:52,750
But in terms of organisation in these in these different parts of the country.

689
01:33:52,750 --> 01:33:56,530
You know, I think the grievances are certainly there.

690
01:33:56,530 --> 01:34:05,550
You know, we've had decades of misrule, authoritarian governments, widespread corruption, and we've occasionally seen it spilling over into protests.

691
01:34:05,550 --> 01:34:13,710
Small scale protests to protest in 2020 after being hit with a mudslide and the

692
01:34:13,710 --> 01:34:18,780
lack of government response in headlong property that we see very occasionally,

693
01:34:18,780 --> 01:34:23,490
mostly in the premier, you know, people mobilising against the government.

694
01:34:23,490 --> 01:34:26,010
I think there's still this association in people's minds.

695
01:34:26,010 --> 01:34:34,020
And I think even though now most people in the country don't have a living memory of this majority of the population born since independence.

696
01:34:34,020 --> 01:34:39,480
But there is still this repeated, which you didn't mentioned in his opening remarks,

697
01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:44,800
repeated idea that if you protest, that inevitably leads to instability.

698
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:49,200
Look at what happened with the Arab Spring in Syria and look what happened in Tajikistan in 1992,

699
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:55,590
where we had two opposing protests, eventually turning violent and leading to a civil war.

700
01:34:55,590 --> 01:35:03,360
So I think there's still this attempt by the government to cultivate this idea that politics and engagement in politics is dangerous.

701
01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:08,550
But citizens should be anti political associate politics with with violence.

702
01:35:08,550 --> 01:35:18,840
And so I think that's been relatively successful. But as we've seen throughout history, these grievances are there.

703
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:22,890
They can often explode in ways that we wouldn't we wouldn't predict.

704
01:35:22,890 --> 01:35:25,800
So I think there's certainly the potential there.

705
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:33,750
But at this point, we've seen the Typekit people being very resilient, very patient, putting up with a lot of hardships.

706
01:35:33,750 --> 01:35:38,340
And so it may well be that they continue this quiet approach.

707
01:35:38,340 --> 01:35:46,470
So I think there's potential. But I would say it's unlikely that we'll see mass protests anytime soon if we are to see protests horror.

708
01:35:46,470 --> 01:35:51,160
The premier is the most likely place. Thank you, thank you very much.

709
01:35:51,160 --> 01:36:03,700
Perhaps we should end with Mr Sharon as a man of a given what has been happening in Rogue and in the Palmers.

710
01:36:03,700 --> 01:36:17,310
Perhaps you can say something about. What you expect to happen and what you would like to happen within the realm of the possible?

711
01:36:17,310 --> 01:36:22,790
And maybe we should have the translator translate this first.

712
01:36:22,790 --> 01:36:31,180
Yes. Which is a way to stop resisting for the neighbours to complete those two shows pre-school

713
01:36:31,180 --> 01:36:42,860
commercial union to the only place credits and irresistable with village to raise a floor or movie.

714
01:36:42,860 --> 01:36:56,550
Watch the nerdy cartoon and go to one party of the neighbourhood must be a democratic scheme first like monster.

715
01:36:56,550 --> 01:36:59,690
Rick Santorum. Lucky you.

716
01:36:59,690 --> 01:37:15,740
That's a man needs to be much more relaxed about the slow movement into the democratic steps that you need to know about the new nuclear regime.

717
01:37:15,740 --> 01:37:22,260
It mentions the one the most severe, intrusive, bizarre questions.

718
01:37:22,260 --> 01:37:37,200
At a was to ActionScript, when you can buy with what I would like to to have is a genuine democratic structure,

719
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:43,200
genuine democratic regime where all the national ethnic,

720
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:58,130
linguistic religious minorities could subsist freely, which is pretty impossible in any that altering autocratic regimes that we are right now in.

721
01:37:58,130 --> 01:38:07,050
That's what I want to say to the seductive damage to property.

722
01:38:07,050 --> 01:38:26,190
Beverly Beverly, the no good they should stress me, Beverly in any case, but that's tacky nearby that shrine that we discovered afterwards.

723
01:38:26,190 --> 01:38:32,520
What is currently happening is that it's an unprecedented since 1992.

724
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:43,920
Do we see an unprecedented consolidation of this society, both within the nation itself and outside the sport for the production and.

725
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:49,840
It was done in satiety and immediate shots and.

726
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:58,400
Riley may have the will know whatever the suffering and new regime,

727
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:07,290
the regime athletes just wishes to suffer the myth of a regime, what it supports and new rule.

728
01:39:07,290 --> 01:39:17,020
The two new Chapter three, the term in the Barabbas this news last night.

729
01:39:17,020 --> 01:39:21,400
Well, that's neat. Neat to dole out from underneath Gaza must.

730
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:29,140
That's the key issues of the indigenous community of Kazakhstan.

731
01:39:29,140 --> 01:39:32,840
And why not give him the other day?

732
01:39:32,840 --> 01:39:38,370
Now she did a dig at in Selma.

733
01:39:38,370 --> 01:39:45,030
Evoked the symmetry that fascinates me is the pieces just over go dark and the party suddenly Murdoch

734
01:39:45,030 --> 01:39:55,890
and then releases them into circulation oblivion in the economic oblivion that unites a problem.

735
01:39:55,890 --> 01:40:00,090
But I must stop. Genomic is still correct. Not yet.

736
01:40:00,090 --> 01:40:14,290
The thumb probably only comes out of a atop the scope of what it means is that you stop all.

737
01:40:14,290 --> 01:40:18,600
Even you talk about those.

738
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:23,530
That's a shame. [INAUDIBLE] capital of Badakhshan.

739
01:40:23,530 --> 01:40:37,050
Tim Walsh. Under the current circumstances, it is unlikely that the government would take extreme measures.

740
01:40:37,050 --> 01:40:40,700
However, with the preservation of the current regime,

741
01:40:40,700 --> 01:40:54,060
the tension would remain since the region does not have any oil or gas or any other resources that could be easily extracted and benefited from.

742
01:40:54,060 --> 01:41:08,670
I have noticed that since 2006, when the arcade and structure started to invest in the region and there was some substantial capital investments,

743
01:41:08,670 --> 01:41:15,600
the interest of the centre toward the autonomy started to grow.

744
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:28,770
And nowadays, those authorities are trying to keep the inflow of investments under their

745
01:41:28,770 --> 01:41:34,470
control so that all those millions would go through their hands and they would,

746
01:41:34,470 --> 01:41:39,930
to a certain extent, benefit from them. Thank you very much.

747
01:41:39,930 --> 01:41:45,780
I mean, at the very end of our session, you know, all of these new issues come up.

748
01:41:45,780 --> 01:41:55,560
It's always the case that it's so that on the one hand, you have the poorest region of the country, which yet is capable of being a cash cow,

749
01:41:55,560 --> 01:42:06,930
both through the the drug trade through Afghanistan, but also through money is received by NGOs and all the rest.

750
01:42:06,930 --> 01:42:14,170
We also have I noticed from the chat. The sort of, if you will,

751
01:42:14,170 --> 01:42:25,900
the international recognition of the toxic kleptocracy with the possible appointment of the president's daughter as as ambassador to the UK,

752
01:42:25,900 --> 01:42:28,300
I don't know if this has happened yet or not.

753
01:42:28,300 --> 01:42:40,060
And the you know, it has Odia and the and the appointment of a new a calf leader as well as Susie has written.

754
01:42:40,060 --> 01:42:45,340
So all kinds of all kinds of things are happening.

755
01:42:45,340 --> 01:42:56,380
Not very cheery news, unfortunately, but nevertheless quite different from the 1990s,

756
01:42:56,380 --> 01:43:07,200
insofar as we are now talking about a situation which cannot just be confined and closed off altogether.

757
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:09,900
There is so much more of everything.

758
01:43:09,900 --> 01:43:22,950
Violence, not of the genocidal kind that perhaps we saw the early 1990s, but more structured kind of by the state's diaspora,

759
01:43:22,950 --> 01:43:33,390
a possible international interest or certainly internationalisation, which of course, always brings in the possibility of proxy wars.

760
01:43:33,390 --> 01:43:46,800
Perhaps this is not a region, the farmers or even in Tajikistan, where that could happen very easily, but a whole range of issues yet to be discussed.

761
01:43:46,800 --> 01:44:00,030
And I hope we can have another couple of sessions in coming weeks on budget Christiane, not only because of its own problems and possibilities,

762
01:44:00,030 --> 01:44:07,860
but also because in some ways it tells us about the region in Central Asia as a whole and the post-Soviet space as a whole.

763
01:44:07,860 --> 01:44:18,850
So. Thank you very much indeed to all our panellists today, it really has been a wonderfully informative session.

764
01:44:18,850 --> 01:44:27,040
I have kept you very long, but you know my gratitude and my thanks.

765
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:33,520
The session will be recorded, it'll be put online and you will all receive links to it.

766
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:48,730
So with that and my best wishes for the future stability and peace of Badakhshan and of Tajikistan as a whole, thank you and goodbye.

767
01:44:48,730 --> 01:44:56,080
Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Really, it's a pleasure seeing everybody an honour to be here.

768
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Thank you so much. Thank you. Live by.