1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:06,600 OK, so hi, everyone, very warm, welcome to week four of the modern South Asian studies seminars at the University of Oxford. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,280 My name is Nadia Martin. I'm the director of the Contemporary South Asian Studies Programme here, 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,230 and it's my absolute pleasure to be a chairing this incredible of discussion on the 4 00:00:16,230 --> 00:00:22,620 methodological and political challenges of academic research on climate change in South Asia. 5 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:26,640 Just a quick note on the format for those of you joining us for the first time, 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:31,140 the stone every speaker who talks about 10 to 12 minutes about their own work. 7 00:00:31,140 --> 00:00:34,440 And then you have an open conversation amongst about this. 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:42,060 Please do feel free to pop your questions into the Q&A books as we go along and of course, at the end of the presentations. 9 00:00:42,060 --> 00:00:46,530 Now I'm going to introduce the speakers in the order in which they would be speaking. 10 00:00:46,530 --> 00:00:52,260 It's a bit random order, but that's the way it is and other you're up first. 11 00:00:52,260 --> 00:00:59,310 So, OK, so first we're going to have a doctor who's a presidential fellow in environmental history at the University of Manchester. 12 00:00:59,310 --> 00:01:06,390 His current research examines colonial and post-colonial urban spaces, disease colleges and rapid environmental change. 13 00:01:06,390 --> 00:01:10,500 This research is deeply collaborative, and it involves working with colleagues, including Bhavani. 14 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:15,180 Rahman was an early colonial historian, Karen Coelho, who is an anthropologist, and Molly Roy, 15 00:01:15,180 --> 00:01:22,020 accountable and is focussed impartially on the coastal city of Chennai, formerly Madras and its many hydro spheres. 16 00:01:22,020 --> 00:01:30,150 Previously, articles worked on large dams, technocratic governance and regimes of property in colonial and post-colonial south India. 17 00:01:30,150 --> 00:01:38,640 After going to have Professor Nosheen unworked, Nosheen is professor of regional and City Planning Department of Social Sciences at IB Karachi, 18 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,860 and she's also the founder and director of the very, very amazing Karachi Urban Lab. 19 00:01:43,860 --> 00:01:53,100 Nosheen also holds a joint appointment as research fellow in the city's cluster and ideas at the University of Sussex in the UK. 20 00:01:53,100 --> 00:02:00,360 And after noticing we could have Dr Camiguin, Devine was an environmental anthropologist focussing on the anthropology of development. 21 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,860 She's currently a postdoctoral fellow of the Department of Social Ontology, University of Oslo, 22 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:12,210 and is the author of the recently released an open access book Misreading the Bengali Delta Climate Change, 23 00:02:12,210 --> 00:02:18,660 Development and Livelihoods in Coastal Bangladesh. This was published by the University of Washington Press. 24 00:02:18,660 --> 00:02:21,450 After coming minute, we're going to have to talk, Venkatraman, 25 00:02:21,450 --> 00:02:28,300 who is an anthropologist whose research intersects environmental studies, PhDs and visual studies. 26 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:36,940 Chitra G2's currently working on her book, which is entitled Drawing Coastlines, Climate Anxieties and the Visual Reinvention of Mumbai Shore. 27 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:41,460 Jeter is particularly interested in experimenting with comics as an Indian graphic medium, 28 00:02:41,460 --> 00:02:47,370 and I should also add that Thrones's lovely Instagram handle, where you can see some of these beautiful comics. 29 00:02:47,370 --> 00:02:49,930 And finally, we're going to have Dr Nicola Unenthused, 30 00:02:49,930 --> 00:02:56,280 an environmental anthropologist whose research focuses on cities, infrastructure, speed, power and climate change. 31 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:02,190 He addresses these questions by studying the political ecology of cities through the very different lives of water. 32 00:03:02,190 --> 00:03:07,170 His new book, Project Urban, sees descent as the grounds of urban planning, 33 00:03:07,170 --> 00:03:11,580 but drawing attention to the work of fishers and scientists in climate change seats. 34 00:03:11,580 --> 00:03:19,320 Nicholas also, of course, the author of the highly really well read book Hydraulics City previously. 35 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:26,530 OK, so with that, I'm going to hand over to Aditya to kick off the discussion. 36 00:03:26,530 --> 00:03:33,470 Well, thank you, Michael, thank you so much for this invitation. I'm just going to get started, but I mean, what a privilege it is to be here. 37 00:03:33,470 --> 00:03:38,210 I'm going to share my screen. I hope you can see it. 38 00:03:38,210 --> 00:03:41,860 I mean, is that OK? Yes, we don't see it. 39 00:03:41,860 --> 00:03:52,740 All right, perfect. Just give me a second. 40 00:03:52,740 --> 00:04:05,200 Oops! OK, I'm just going to start. 41 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:12,130 So broadening this project, I mean, I've titled it archives and maps environmental justice, 42 00:04:12,130 --> 00:04:16,720 and it largely focuses on China, but it's gone through many iterations. 43 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:22,150 And thank you for this opportunity to present one iteration, especially focussing on methods. 44 00:04:22,150 --> 00:04:29,520 So let me start with the idea of pristine pasts, climate change and environmental history. 45 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:37,300 So this emerged, I don't think I need to report much of an introduction. Chennai is a city in the south in the southernmost tip almost of India. 46 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:42,060 It's located in the Bay of Bengal, or it's on the coastline of the Bay of Bengal. 47 00:04:42,060 --> 00:04:47,850 And like many other South Asian cities, it's undergoing considerable amounts of turbulence in terms of climate. 48 00:04:47,850 --> 00:04:57,570 But also many kinds of different thinkers are trying to rethink the city in terms of its water, its forests and its different types of ecology. 49 00:04:57,570 --> 00:05:03,330 So the first thing I want to focus on is the river on the map that you see on your left is right in the middle of it, 50 00:05:03,330 --> 00:05:06,810 you see the longwinded river that drains into the Bay of Bengal. 51 00:05:06,810 --> 00:05:13,890 So historical mark from 1927 marked at the fringes of the map, to which inlets and outlets, 52 00:05:13,890 --> 00:05:21,480 pumping stations of different types and a whole host of different kinds of water infrastructures to try and manage the river. 53 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,340 A narrative is imposed in Chennai, which suggests that actually two three hundred years ago, 54 00:05:26,340 --> 00:05:33,240 before the British arrived, the Queen was in fact a pristine river that was flowing into the Bay of Bengal. 55 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,480 It had running water and several temples beside it. 56 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:44,170 It had battles that were fought on its banks and in fact was supported a fairly broad based economy. 57 00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:49,830 But one of the questions that we posed of this presentation is in conjunction, at least with Bhavani Rahman, 58 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:56,220 although she probably doesn't hold any kind of liability in terms of what I said. 59 00:05:56,220 --> 00:06:01,350 And one of the questions that we posed through our research on, for example, 60 00:06:01,350 --> 00:06:07,080 the coin was whether there was actually such a signposts that existed in the first place. 61 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:15,240 And the relevance of this question is precisely because most of the engineers, the planners, the local government bodies led now by citizens, 62 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,130 middle class citizens of a city like Chennai are pushing to have something like the coin 63 00:06:20,130 --> 00:06:24,870 made into a pristine river through forms of aesthetic through forms of beautification. 64 00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:32,400 So one of the questions that we posed through our archive of research is to ask What's the ever pristine river as such? 65 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:38,430 And we do this actually by exploring the archives of the Corps. Luckily, Bhavani, the starting of early colonial India. 66 00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:47,250 I'm a historian of late colonial 20th century India, and we go over the Archives of Engineering of Public Health and Housing to understand 67 00:06:47,250 --> 00:06:52,830 that actually there were many hydro geographies that existed through this river, 68 00:06:52,830 --> 00:06:56,910 and it was never actually characterised as a river in itself. Right. 69 00:06:56,910 --> 00:07:01,260 So we found that there were parts of it that were estuaries. We found that parts of it were tanks. 70 00:07:01,260 --> 00:07:07,110 We found that parts of it were agrarian fields. Parts of it were inundation canals, artifical drainage canals. 71 00:07:07,110 --> 00:07:16,870 And together, we found that in from the 1860s, from the 1820s, the 1920s or so, the British remained succumbing to a tidal river. 72 00:07:16,870 --> 00:07:18,420 Right. And actually, 73 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:25,410 then the post-colonial imaginary in a contemporary imaginary that tries to deal with climate change replicates this very mode of thinking, 74 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:29,670 which is to remake this river again into a tidal river, into a flowing river. 75 00:07:29,670 --> 00:07:34,350 And this imagination actually stems very deeply from the British imagination. 76 00:07:34,350 --> 00:07:38,280 So actually, what I wanted to do was to reflect a little bit on some of our methods. 77 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:38,920 In terms of some, 78 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:46,110 one is really the archival method where we try and disturb this idea of the pristine past in order to say that there are different futures that 79 00:07:46,110 --> 00:07:53,460 we can think about in terms of our climatic present and our climatic future that we don't necessarily have to think in terms of imaginary, 80 00:07:53,460 --> 00:08:00,780 such as the Tidal River. And actually, if you go back into history, you'll find that things like flowing rivers actually had multiple geographies, 81 00:08:00,780 --> 00:08:04,710 multiple histories, multiple coincidences of land and water. 82 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:11,190 And this is embedded in a deep history of inequality, which I don't have time to come into and come to it at the moment, 83 00:08:11,190 --> 00:08:16,050 but I'm happy to answer questions actually stemming from our preliminary research. 84 00:08:16,050 --> 00:08:21,090 So this is one specific kind of case study that we're working on. 85 00:08:21,090 --> 00:08:30,060 This map is again of Chennai. If the river that I showed you previously was the clue on this particular map is of the river idea. 86 00:08:30,060 --> 00:08:36,000 It's a completely different map. It's a contemporary map. It's derived from a software street. 87 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:45,360 And if you look at the map closely, what you see in the graphics on top is that there's a satellite imagery, 88 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,290 there's open streets, map, OpenStreetMap and then there are a series of dates. 89 00:08:49,290 --> 00:09:00,570 Right? So there's 1822 that 1854, this 1866, the 1917, 1947, 1970, 1989 and 2011. 90 00:09:00,570 --> 00:09:03,330 So these are maps that we've actually gathered from archives. 91 00:09:03,330 --> 00:09:09,480 And then so we have India, and then we've tried to digitise the audio river through roster and vector data. 92 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:19,610 Not us, but research associates assistance work study students who've all collaborated to try and create different maps of the area. 93 00:09:19,610 --> 00:09:25,580 Right? Now, what does this fundamentally do so in mapping the area? 94 00:09:25,580 --> 00:09:33,570 What is the question the grasping world of climate change, environmental change? The first is to rethink again the city of the river. 95 00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:38,630 We see that the idea then is not a flowing river. It's not a river necessarily like the Thames or the sea, 96 00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:46,280 and which in the 19th century was remade into aesthetic infrastructures with land speculation, with values going up. 97 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:53,000 And similar things are happening in China, around Adriano. But through these maps, we actually see that the idea of the Deep Blue Sea is notable. 98 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,260 And each map delivers a different kind of geography to the river, 99 00:09:57,260 --> 00:10:03,500 which you start to understand with time and the way in which map makers are making those maps changed. 100 00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:08,630 So there is a question about the city of the river and what do you do with that and how you deal 101 00:10:08,630 --> 00:10:13,820 with that trying to be or not fixed debate the different kinds of land and water geographies. 102 00:10:13,820 --> 00:10:15,440 The second kind of collaboration, 103 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:23,180 if the first one was about thinking about the river through this and using raston vector data to think through the river, 104 00:10:23,180 --> 00:10:31,970 the idea river, the second collaboration that Bhavani and I are undertaking, is with the vertebrate collective in Chennai, right? 105 00:10:31,970 --> 00:10:38,420 And these are actually alternative imaginaries of the streets of some of you might have seen the 106 00:10:38,420 --> 00:10:44,990 activist and the energy of posts on Facebook and some articles with The Wire with the wire. 107 00:10:44,990 --> 00:10:49,490 But he's in deep conversation with Parliament, whose official elder. 108 00:10:49,490 --> 00:10:56,720 And who thinks about certain space of the idea that it's a very limited space through a slightly different thought, 109 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,460 three different framework than Descartes is in framework, which I'll just come to. 110 00:11:01,460 --> 00:11:06,320 So Parliament is able to think about ideas of risk, ideas of decision making, ideas of adaptation. 111 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,700 He doesn't rely, for instance, on meteorological data. 112 00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:15,950 It doesn't rely on how the fish trade on on on data that comes from the fishing boat into into China. 113 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:20,870 He doesn't rely on data from the dominant corporation, but rather creates his own kinds of data, 114 00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:26,250 meets his own kinds of memories from the fact that he's been working with the sea for quite a long time. 115 00:11:26,250 --> 00:11:34,790 And but it's a very local geography. It's a geography that is spans the length of, you know, an oral compound to the the mouth of the river. 116 00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:39,650 And that's the geography that it really knows well and he's very, very confident about. 117 00:11:39,650 --> 00:11:45,230 But what this does fundamentally is to rethink certain categories of the Cartesian map. 118 00:11:45,230 --> 00:11:54,830 Right? And by this, I mean that when we put these two farms together, historical maps that have been geo referenced through time, 119 00:11:54,830 --> 00:12:01,430 as well as narratives from Ballymena which rethink risk would rethink ideas of decision making, 120 00:12:01,430 --> 00:12:07,070 how people adapt to different circumstances and actually what you get are different categories of how 121 00:12:07,070 --> 00:12:13,670 you can map a particular space which doesn't necessarily rely on certain technologies necessarily, 122 00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:18,650 but also doesn't rely only on oral narrative. There's a kind of merging of the two, 123 00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:24,470 and this is where I come to my final point before I would stop is acting a kind 124 00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:28,430 of broader point about how I'm thinking about environmental history to climate, 125 00:12:28,430 --> 00:12:32,450 what I'm calling environmental history to climate studies? Right. 126 00:12:32,450 --> 00:12:39,140 So very broadly, environmental history as a discipline started from, you know, thinking about forests, pastures and rivers. 127 00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:45,560 So these were the three central drivers of environmental history in South Asia historiography in South Asia. 128 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:51,050 We can think of figures like my history, like Rohan D'Souza, who who've written on this predicament, 129 00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:59,330 largely relying on ideas of colonial capitalism, relying on ideas of state, making Kishore Crispin's work and relying on ideas of community, 130 00:12:59,330 --> 00:13:07,310 whether resistance or whether in terms of corruption and colonial capitalism largely has been a paradigm making idea in terms 131 00:13:07,310 --> 00:13:15,230 of reverse that there's a difference between colonial making it robust and of pre-colonial ideas of how rivers existed. 132 00:13:15,230 --> 00:13:22,730 And what I'm suggesting in a way through this work that we've been doing with the money as well as with some others, 133 00:13:22,730 --> 00:13:29,000 is that actually maybe this this it's time to end this paradigm of doing environmental history as such, right? 134 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,110 And what I mean is that the two or three things that we're doing that I've been reflecting on, 135 00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:36,260 that's quite different from what has happened previously. 136 00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:43,730 First, and this is a bit troubling even to me, is that we take science quite for granted in many ways. 137 00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:48,650 So one is that all of us, for instance, take the idea of the climate crisis as upon us. 138 00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:57,020 But we're taking this for granted. We're not. So in more specific terms, what we're not doing is we're not interrogating the idea of geosciences. 139 00:13:57,020 --> 00:14:02,600 So we're using, for instance, you're referencing techniques without necessarily we acknowledge it, 140 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,650 but without necessarily disturbing the idea that actually geosciences were a largely colonial discipline. 141 00:14:07,650 --> 00:14:11,990 Right. So this is the first kind of departure that we're making. 142 00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:17,150 The second is working in collective. Some of this work is actually impossible without doing. 143 00:14:17,150 --> 00:14:20,710 I mean, it's not possible to do individually like people did in. 144 00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:28,270 In the past, I don't know how to I mean, I guess I have some rudimentary knowledge about maps and you're referencing. 145 00:14:28,270 --> 00:14:32,560 But I definitely can't understand the landscape in the way that parliament does. 146 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,790 I can't understand it for sure. Interviewer Right. 147 00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:41,830 The thought and what is very interesting in what is emerging in at least an academic study is that 148 00:14:41,830 --> 00:14:47,830 there seems to be a coexistence of multiple colleges without one trying to examine or study the other. 149 00:14:47,830 --> 00:14:52,900 In other words, there's a coexistence of geography and referencing that the coexistence of archives has to coexist. 150 00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:56,830 And so the activist media and as the coexistence of somebody like Ballymaloe, 151 00:14:56,830 --> 00:15:02,770 who is a future leader and we actually noted a study from one another, we actually tried to draw draw from one another. 152 00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:11,560 So actually, through this exercise, Bhavani and I realise we are unable to come up with analytical categories to capture this whole space. 153 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:19,630 It's become an impossibility to come up with an analytical category what we can at best to at this moment, because it's one it's so fast changing, 154 00:15:19,630 --> 00:15:27,460 but two that it's actually more productive, probably to describe these various facets that are occurring together so analytically. 155 00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:34,490 Then there is a struggle. But I think actually we might need to then draw up our analytical categories and try to grapple with climate change. 156 00:15:34,490 --> 00:15:43,330 I think in some senses echoes almost 90 come out of his recent book Today on the Anthropocene and How We Try and Think About The Anthropocene. 157 00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:48,670 And I think I'll stop there. Thank you. Thank you so much, officer. 158 00:15:48,670 --> 00:15:54,130 What a great. Yeah, lots and lots of questions, and thank you so much for that. 159 00:15:54,130 --> 00:16:02,920 I think we'll just be really move on to our next speaker, Professor Unger. 160 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:08,770 Got it, thank you, Anna Nicole. So I also have a PowerPoint presentation, so I brought that up quickly. 161 00:16:08,770 --> 00:16:17,770 So. So this is just to sort of give a small fragment of the sort of thing that my colleagues and I are working on these days. 162 00:16:17,770 --> 00:16:22,090 Let me just say, grapple with this. Just bear with me. Yeah, there we go. 163 00:16:22,090 --> 00:16:28,450 And so I'm hoping everybody can see this. 164 00:16:28,450 --> 00:16:33,880 So, um, so my work. I'm an urban planner by by training, by profession. 165 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:41,200 And it's really an honour to be invited to this wonderful forum and to participate in this exchange and and learning 166 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:48,580 from everyone else today and looking in absolutely amazing work on on climate change and the environment in general. 167 00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:54,430 So. So as an urban planner, much of my work focuses on infrastructures and issues of land displacement. 168 00:16:54,430 --> 00:17:02,080 For many years now, I've been looking at water supply dynamics in Karachi from a gender perspective. 169 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,380 And then lately, over the last couple of years, issues of land displacement, 170 00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:13,600 evictions and now increasingly quite a lot of my work has has now turned to climate change related issues. 171 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:20,920 For instance, how climate change and climate adaptation challenges coalesce with issues of violence on ground. 172 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,720 For example, state led violence in the form of evictions and land displacement. 173 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:35,380 Disaster risk mitigation upgradation plans that are unleashed by, for instance, in Pakistan's National Disaster Management Authority. 174 00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:39,250 What are the repercussions on ground when it comes to different kinds of communities, 175 00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:43,840 from low income to to low and middle income, marginalised communities and so forth? 176 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,100 And how these dynamics will to coalesce with other kinds of vulnerabilities, 177 00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:52,300 for instance, such as global warming and its impact on on the southern city. 178 00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:57,850 So in most of my work, I use Karachi as a proxy to think about these kinds of issues. 179 00:17:57,850 --> 00:18:08,140 Karachi is Pakistan's largest city, and it sort of also, I think, sort of resonates with a lot of the big city megacity, 180 00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:13,420 global city dynamics that we see across other cities in the global south in some some ways. 181 00:18:13,420 --> 00:18:21,310 Karachi's challenges of infrastructure development and water and global warming, etc. are not by any means unique. 182 00:18:21,310 --> 00:18:27,730 They do resonate an echo with similar kinds of challenges that are taking place in cities such as Mumbai, for instance. 183 00:18:27,730 --> 00:18:35,290 So in this quick presentation, I want to talk about a project that I'm involved in these days with my colleague, 184 00:18:35,290 --> 00:18:41,890 Dr Jenny Cross, who's one of just over at the University of Edinburgh and and my colleague Sara MacLean, 185 00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:49,570 was an architect and an open planner at the Karachi Urban Lab. So this is part of a project called Cool Infrastructures, 186 00:18:49,570 --> 00:18:54,880 funded by the Global Challenges Research Fund, the UK Government and Life with Heat in the Auckland city. 187 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,970 And this particular project has many different permutations. 188 00:18:57,970 --> 00:19:03,700 And I'll just very quickly give you a quick snapshot of one particular aspect that we're looking at today, 189 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:07,440 and this is about negotiating change in urban climates in South Asia. 190 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,830 And what does it mean to negotiate shade? 191 00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:16,390 So just to give you a very quick background, could infrastructure as the three year project, 192 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:22,580 which aims to enhance understandings of the social and technical infrastructures for cooling in the context of urban poverty, 193 00:19:22,580 --> 00:19:28,510 is the way we're looking at heat as a lens to think about vulnerability across cities like Jakarta, 194 00:19:28,510 --> 00:19:35,200 Karachi, Hyderabad in India and the island in Cameroon, and specifically interested in looking at the materials, technologies, 195 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:42,670 relationships and forms of knowledge with which marginalised urban residents work to keep cool and overheating global cities. 196 00:19:42,670 --> 00:19:51,700 So in the Karaj context, one of the questions that we ask is and this is coming out of Mike Davis's 1997 book Is Shade an inalienable right? 197 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:56,320 So, so in the context of heat and materiality and thinking about the colonial and 198 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,340 whiskering transformations the built environment in the South Asian city, 199 00:20:00,340 --> 00:20:06,850 for instance, in Karachi, what? What is the relationship between labouring bodies and heat and thermal comfort? 200 00:20:06,850 --> 00:20:13,150 And how might this relationship be embedded in the solidarity that permeate the built environment? 201 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:20,320 What is the quotidian context in which solar exposure is experienced and talked about in people's daily negotiations or finding shade? 202 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:27,130 And how does shade in the South Asian city become something that must be cleaned alongside other rights and entitlements? 203 00:20:27,130 --> 00:20:32,530 That it might be something that is part of an intimate politics in which, for instance, 204 00:20:32,530 --> 00:20:36,610 the ordinary citizen is ensconced in a relationship with the local state. 205 00:20:36,610 --> 00:20:41,380 So how should we address the existing knowledge gap when negotiating rights to shape? 206 00:20:41,380 --> 00:20:46,150 So this is coming out of some of the work that the United Nations has produced about how nearly 207 00:20:46,150 --> 00:20:50,950 half of Southeast Asia's population lives in urban areas with shared often has an unexamined, 208 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:54,640 exempt quality of greening and public spaces, et cetera. 209 00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:02,270 So we've been looking at the informal workers street vendors, for instance, who have a direct association with green or barren or shaded non-state. 210 00:21:02,270 --> 00:21:07,900 Created public listening, public spaces as a karaoke arena of economic activity and trade, 211 00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:12,800 and their occupancy in certain spaces is often characterised as informal. 212 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:21,010 The spaces in which they work, which are often came to occupy through negotiation and outcome what we call an everyday and intimate politics. 213 00:21:21,010 --> 00:21:30,820 So in the graduate context, this is particularly interesting because Karachi suffered sort of experienced an unprecedented heat wave in 2015, 214 00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:40,390 where temperatures rose to 45 degrees Celsius and and and I recorded 100 plus deaths at that point in time. 215 00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:49,390 But when I see unprecedented from historical perspective, there have been other moments of high heat exposure in in the regional sense, 216 00:21:49,390 --> 00:21:53,050 maybe not specific to Karachi, but certainly in other parts of Central. 217 00:21:53,050 --> 00:21:58,210 So this particular event was then spurred on by Heat Action Plan that the central 218 00:21:58,210 --> 00:22:01,990 government and the Karachi government specifically took sort of rolled out. 219 00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:06,370 So we're looking at this issue of how these sort of the challenge of how these heat 220 00:22:06,370 --> 00:22:12,460 action plans both limits and kind of constrain the idea of how heat should be managed 221 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:18,760 and and specifically in terms of sort of its focus on heat events rather than thinking 222 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,620 about heat as something that is more long term or as as chronic heat exposure. 223 00:22:23,620 --> 00:22:26,350 So, so in this context, 224 00:22:26,350 --> 00:22:34,030 we're also looking at sort of how the colonial post-colonial context of Karachi has changed not only through colonial colonial interventions, 225 00:22:34,030 --> 00:22:41,980 but also post-colonial interventions in which different kinds of materials have been have become popular in the shaping of the built environment. 226 00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:52,420 So what was typical in the colonial context, where the question could be found quite commonly in the in the in the in the construction of buildings, 227 00:22:52,420 --> 00:22:56,830 something that sort of now is not so common to the sort of Karachi built environment, 228 00:22:56,830 --> 00:23:02,410 and you will find this kind of construction that is limited to very specific parts of the city. 229 00:23:02,410 --> 00:23:11,920 And where sort of this this sort of glass and and concrete appears to have become or has become a more dominant sort of material that 230 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:18,670 is used in the reshaping of the built environment today and a certain kind of a verticality that has also become quite popular. 231 00:23:18,670 --> 00:23:24,370 So in this context, we've been looking at how public parks and green spaces in Karachi are also decreasing because of urban 232 00:23:24,370 --> 00:23:30,520 development and infrastructure development and these large scale projects and also have accompanied sort of a 233 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:38,320 decline in terms of the sort of the medium trees where informal vendors and informal labourers typically kind 234 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:44,980 of confine themselves because that is where a large sort of part of the of the sort of the shade comes from. 235 00:23:44,980 --> 00:23:50,230 So these roadside medium trees have areas have become waiting spaces where you 236 00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:54,160 will find all trees like the bunny or the burqa or the name of the people, 237 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,900 which also fast disappearing. And these provide sort of shaded pockets of space. 238 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:05,140 The small kiosks that are later on displays by recently planted imported species like the corner copies. 239 00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:14,110 So over the last year or so, we've been talking to street vendors in specific parts of the city, typically around what is known as the Empress Market, 240 00:24:14,110 --> 00:24:17,320 which is part of the Old City or the native city, 241 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:24,910 which was also reconfigured quite a bit during colonial rule and where many of these street vendors can today be found. 242 00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:30,260 And and we've been talking to them about sort of where do they hang out typically in, you know, 243 00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:35,350 in parts of the city where finding shaded spaces has become increasingly hard because trees are being 244 00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:41,500 cut down and green spaces are declining or access to green spaces has also become highly privatised. 245 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:45,190 So, so we find interesting sort of, you know, 246 00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:51,220 conversations that emerged from our surveys and our open ended conversations where street vendors, for instance, 247 00:24:51,220 --> 00:25:00,250 tell us that they find spots underneath trees and and they also find challenges in terms of hanging on to these spots because these are claims to, 248 00:25:00,250 --> 00:25:07,540 you know, to find shade that are based on informal arrangements with the local municipal corporation, which is the Guide Municipal Corporation. 249 00:25:07,540 --> 00:25:18,580 So the right to the shaded space for street vendors, for instance, hinges on their ability to pay informal rents to the Karachi Municipal Corporation. 250 00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:21,280 And and then we went on to interview. For instance, 251 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:27,790 women try fruit sellers who typically use umbrellas to find shaded spaces and and they talked about 252 00:25:27,790 --> 00:25:33,610 how when they feel the sun and they feel the solar exposure and they feel the switch of the heat, 253 00:25:33,610 --> 00:25:37,180 the question of thermal comfort becomes particularly challenging because for them, 254 00:25:37,180 --> 00:25:44,950 it's not just a question of the body overheating due to a solar exposure, but literally the ground where they sit on also becomes incredibly hot. 255 00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:46,000 So throughout the day, 256 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:53,680 they can't even take off their sandals because it's so hard the food gets ruined and that space sort of the space where they hang on to, 257 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,300 you know, to sell their wares. You know, it's not something that they can easily give up. 258 00:25:58,300 --> 00:26:02,550 So to sort of escape from their kids or to find a shaded spot elsewhere. 259 00:26:02,550 --> 00:26:07,920 Becomes an increasingly big challenge. So in the context of these kinds of conversations, 260 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:15,330 we're also thinking about how these words right exemplify the sort of the physically intense and hazardous 261 00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:21,600 hazardous thresholds of bodily capacities as street vendors attempt to manage the thermal load on their bodies. 262 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:29,910 And so can heat management practises be understood in terms of how sort of they're attuned to certain kinds of rhythms and their potentials for, 263 00:26:29,910 --> 00:26:36,660 you know, for re articulation? How might we move to a rhythm analysis of the South Asian city when we talk about thermal practises? 264 00:26:36,660 --> 00:26:42,660 So I'll move on very quickly. So been talking to security guards and uniforms also in terms of their time of discomfort, 265 00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:50,550 which are often aggravated by heavy layers of clothing and also to construction workers and, you know, thinking about their vulnerability to heat. 266 00:26:50,550 --> 00:26:53,670 So finally, in a sort of, you know, around the south very quickly. 267 00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:58,740 So in the South Asian city, what we see is that shade is not an inalienable human right. 268 00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:05,100 On the contrary, shade as a political material achievement, perhaps an outcome of an intimate politics. 269 00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:08,850 So I'll stop right there. I want to go on. I can go on endlessly about this. 270 00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:16,260 So these findings are part of of a paper that is going to be coming out very soon, which my colleague Jamie Cross and so on. 271 00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:17,550 I co-authored. 272 00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:26,190 And we hope that is the sort of work that will also engender greater conversations on how we think about heat in the context of the South Asian city, 273 00:27:26,190 --> 00:27:30,330 both in the colonial and in the postcolonial contemporary context. 274 00:27:30,330 --> 00:27:40,090 Thank you. Thank you so much for watching. 275 00:27:40,090 --> 00:27:44,870 Super fascinating. Thanks a lot. Will you come back to some of these questions? 276 00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:58,140 Camelia. Can you see the presenting slide or the yes? 277 00:27:58,140 --> 00:28:07,590 The problem was that it's not the notes. OK. So thank you so much for having I'm very privileged to be part of these conversations 278 00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:16,110 and so many thoughts in my mind that I'll save for later when we all discuss research. 279 00:28:16,110 --> 00:28:25,290 So thank you again for inviting me. OK, so I'll just start with how I ended up researching climate change. 280 00:28:25,290 --> 00:28:31,860 In the autumn of 2011, I met with Dr. Mohammed as I was finishing 12 months of qualitative research on 281 00:28:31,860 --> 00:28:36,270 an internationally funded water governance project in Bangladesh's coastal zone. 282 00:28:36,270 --> 00:28:44,580 My field trips to my attention to several urgent problems that are rural interlocutors had raised from saline or brackish Typekit 283 00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:55,230 cultivation that damage flood protection embankments to canal filled up with heavy sediment each year dying an image like this one. 284 00:28:55,230 --> 00:29:04,800 But the water and the beach mass and the sluice gates and I have many of my 285 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,030 findings about the contentiousness of infrastructure and land use practises. 286 00:29:09,030 --> 00:29:14,070 And I sought to explore these issues further in a new project and began asking fellow researchers I met during the year, 287 00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:20,010 such as Dr. Muhammad, how to best pursue this or how to get our money for our future. 288 00:29:20,010 --> 00:29:25,830 So when I mentioned my interest in land use and siltation as we set in Gulshan Taco Funds, 289 00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:29,910 this neighbourhood bustling with international development professionals. 290 00:29:29,910 --> 00:29:35,580 He commented on the increasing amount of financial support for climate change research, and he said, 291 00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:43,520 Whatever you want to do for a fee, make sure you add climate change to your project title and get fund. 292 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,400 All of this advice, I did get several state offers, 293 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:52,130 I wondered whether this inclusion of climate change deflected attention away from the most pressing 294 00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:59,420 concerns that arose during the climate change has become a buzzword used to track donor funding. 295 00:29:59,420 --> 00:30:07,540 And in my research, I study climate change by investigating climate change knowledge production. 296 00:30:07,540 --> 00:30:11,500 Change shape, the direction of development interventions in the global south. 297 00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:17,860 To what extent is this correspond with the concerns of the people that they seek to help? 298 00:30:17,860 --> 00:30:22,750 And can climate change as a development buzzword help save the rivers and canals of the 299 00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:30,430 Bengal delta in the future of climatic uncertainties like return to Bangladesh in 2014? 300 00:30:30,430 --> 00:30:34,510 To explore these questions further on World Rivers Day, 301 00:30:34,510 --> 00:30:41,470 I accompanied my friend Sandy to a workshop organised by grassroots environmental movement in south west coast of Bangladesh. 302 00:30:41,470 --> 00:30:47,860 We arrived on foot to the basement parking area of a simple three storey plastic brick building in central Kona City, 303 00:30:47,860 --> 00:30:57,250 and the concrete space was filled with several rows of plastic chairs facing a table with a large poster with the words City. 304 00:30:57,250 --> 00:31:04,180 The main panellists, all Bangladeshi, sat at the table and there was a woman activist and a rights based and Bill, 305 00:31:04,180 --> 00:31:09,310 a lawyer at the New Zealand IL professor from the local university. 306 00:31:09,310 --> 00:31:17,780 There was no fan, no air conditioning. In so many places. 307 00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:26,160 And entirely in Bangla with no presence at English speaking international owners. 308 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:37,070 The man. Proof. Which? 309 00:31:37,070 --> 00:31:44,040 Only A. Because this network or movement does not depend on, 310 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,860 or at least to attract donor funding and the participants each voice their personal views 311 00:31:49,860 --> 00:31:54,360 on pressing environmental problems in the coastal region and the different ways canals, 312 00:31:54,360 --> 00:32:00,180 rivers and water bodies were being harmed by human interventions, both from the past and in the present. 313 00:32:00,180 --> 00:32:08,190 One of the participants, Amir, spoke about these 1960s donor funded coastal embankments that have resulted in 4000 314 00:32:08,190 --> 00:32:11,910 kilometres of flood protection embankments throughout the coastal zones of these. 315 00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:21,300 This is a map from my old research on indictments, and these methods are similar to the colonial predecessors that enabled reveals 316 00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:27,220 to crisscross the Banco Delta as professor figure equal rights in a similar way. 317 00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:32,010 They prevent silt clad river water from flooding that will take planes and have resulted in the silt, 318 00:32:32,010 --> 00:32:39,840 instead depositing outside the embankments and raising the riverbed. In the first part of my book that provides the environment the history of this, 319 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:48,480 and that's how this is common knowledge amongst them addresses as also eloquently put by Amir that points out that during the monsoon, 320 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:54,180 the raised riverbeds prevent the rainwater inside the embankment from draining out the river outside. 321 00:32:54,180 --> 00:33:00,660 And as you can see on this image here, the land outside the embankment is higher than the land inside. 322 00:33:00,660 --> 00:33:10,230 So during the monsoon, heavy rainwater bhatia water gets trapped inside because they cannot fill out full back out into the river. 323 00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:15,690 And this creates a flood called Jolla floods, and they talk about different types of floods. 324 00:33:15,690 --> 00:33:23,280 In my book So Vulnerable to floods, this translates as water logging or drainage congestion, and it's very harmful to crops. 325 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:31,080 And this type of elevation difference is also also increases the risk of tidal surges. 326 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,940 And I'm you pointed out, since the creation of embankments, the river sediment has nowhere to go. 327 00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:42,270 And our rivers and canals are setting up their dying embankments are causing riverbed rise and waterlogging. 328 00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:44,850 These issues have no link to sea level rise. 329 00:33:44,850 --> 00:33:51,960 Even Bangladesh's most famous water specialist never mentioned sedimentation because of pressure from international donors. 330 00:33:51,960 --> 00:34:01,260 We are not able to do anything. We may continue this movement for the environment, but we are a voice against voiceless, against those and Hakam. 331 00:34:01,260 --> 00:34:11,370 So he said this and refers to how many donors were funding embankments as a new form of climate adaptation infrastructure. 332 00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:16,950 So misreading the Bengal delta contrasts the narratives of climate funded projects with 333 00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:22,320 local environmental history and the lived experiences of social and environmental problems. 334 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,450 And it differentiates between physical processes of climatic change that we are seeing 335 00:34:27,450 --> 00:34:32,880 and the discursive ideas of climate as the main cause of change climate change. 336 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:40,980 This discusses how climate change can be a powerful, discursive phenomenon that alters expectations of causality. 337 00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:48,450 And it's important to remember that the Bengal delta has an innate ability to adapt a certain amount of sea level rise silt. 338 00:34:48,450 --> 00:34:52,950 Evolving waters can raise existing lines if the rivers are allowed to flood the plains. 339 00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:58,680 For example, in the UNinvite Sun, the mangroves, Boshoff floods, monsoon floods, 340 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:04,290 raise land levels each year, and banking the delta prevents such floods and the silt instead. 341 00:35:04,290 --> 00:35:09,660 Deposits outside the embankments embrace the but levels, as I just showed you. 342 00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:18,630 And what's interesting is the images of water are being used to portray climate refugees, such as in this image. 343 00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:27,320 So this is a typical image of water logging. But and embankments are seen as a solution. 344 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:36,240 And to me, that's the. 345 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:38,550 But as natural scientists close to us on the floods, 346 00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:46,640 the Dutch are now recasting these very same embankments known to silt up rivers since colonial times as climate adaptation infrastructure. 347 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:54,500 Can you hear me OK? Yes, we can. Yeah, I got a warning. 348 00:35:54,500 --> 00:36:07,080 And so. This critique is important because silting up of the delta reduces these countries ability to withstand irregular precipitation patterns, 349 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:14,640 long and dry seas and the increased frequency of tropical cyclones and tidal surges that are expected to come in are already, 350 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,620 to a certain extent, happening. So in order to properly address issues of climatic change, 351 00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:26,370 we must understand how environmental processes are linked together and entangled with infrastructures. 352 00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:33,660 And we can no longer remove embankments. But we must find a way to engage in silt management and take into account that meandering rivers 353 00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:39,390 like the youngest Brahmaputra make now will result in embankments constantly eroding and breaking, 354 00:36:39,390 --> 00:36:46,140 requiring regular maintenance funds that donors do not want to fund, but embankments. 355 00:36:46,140 --> 00:36:53,970 As climate adaptation is only one of many ways in which Bangladeshi development professionals attract aid funding rather than anti-politics, 356 00:36:53,970 --> 00:36:58,410 machine or hegemonic development was dictated by donors. 357 00:36:58,410 --> 00:37:01,350 Another speaker at the workshop I attended, Mr Shahid, 358 00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:07,380 revealed how Bangladesh's themselves participate in creating these links between projects for climate change. 359 00:37:07,380 --> 00:37:15,930 Well aware of their own role in perhaps obscuring local environmental problems such as that of embankments western situation, he said. 360 00:37:15,930 --> 00:37:19,560 Climate change is the most amazing place. 361 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:25,530 Climate change, poverty alleviation agenda and you will have a recipe for success for your development project. 362 00:37:25,530 --> 00:37:28,710 But will this recipe help save the river? 363 00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:38,280 My ethnographic research examines the brokerage undertaken by local Bangladeshi development professors and professionals in climate funded projects. 364 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:44,850 I show how Bangladeshi government workers partake in assemblages constituting a multiple heterogeneous development actors, 365 00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:51,390 donors, NGOs, state units and consultants that come together to create a common development project. 366 00:37:51,390 --> 00:37:57,360 The theoretical framework of the book is based on the concept of climate reductive translations. 367 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:06,150 Climate reductionism, a term coined by my Q, refers to the increasing tendency to attribute all changes in environment and society to climate. 368 00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:10,830 The policy theory in Bangladeshi climate change projects tend to be climate reductive. 369 00:38:10,830 --> 00:38:15,840 The country will drown due to rising sea levels caused by global warming climate. 370 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:21,930 Reductive translations thus help conceptualise how different climate projects produce coherent, 371 00:38:21,930 --> 00:38:27,750 how they create causal narratives linking their development interventions to the policy theory of climate change. 372 00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:37,390 And in some instances, this may worsen environmental problems, and in others, it might actually help address local livelihood concerns. 373 00:38:37,390 --> 00:38:42,970 And this the result will depend on the actors that work together in creating the project. 374 00:38:42,970 --> 00:38:50,830 So here is an image of a climate adaptation project funded by Brazil and Japan that was very popular in my field site. 375 00:38:50,830 --> 00:39:00,550 It hired landless agricultural day labourers, provide the rural training and hired them to widen and deepen have these sorts of canals in the area. 376 00:39:00,550 --> 00:39:09,340 The project envisage that this would create a greater absorption capacity of monsoon rains that are expected to increase with climatic variability. 377 00:39:09,340 --> 00:39:18,550 And this also allows for water storage from the monsoon to the dry season, providing a space for fishing and irrigation as a public common. 378 00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:23,350 So this was hugely popular and want to touch. 379 00:39:23,350 --> 00:39:28,210 One of briefly touched on is the first part of my book The History of Flood Protection Embankments, 380 00:39:28,210 --> 00:39:34,360 as well as how I see a rise development brokerage and climate projects. And in the remaining book, 381 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:41,620 I look at how brackish shrimp aquaculture as climate adaptation fails to take into account the purposeful 382 00:39:41,620 --> 00:39:49,060 colonisation of the soil and how that can be reversed and engaging more with feminist political ecology. 383 00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:50,710 And the fourth chapter, 384 00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:59,530 I look at the history of agriculture and environmental change in the wake of the Green Revolution and the introduction of high yielding chemicals, 385 00:39:59,530 --> 00:40:08,260 because several donors are now casting this as a form of climate adaptation to help ensure food security very similar to mosses and discourses. 386 00:40:08,260 --> 00:40:14,950 And I john multi-species ethnography to explore the concept of the life force, 387 00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:20,500 and I discuss how climate reductive translation of intensive agriculture as adaptation is 388 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:26,440 unsustainable as it contributes to biodiversity loss and long term soil acidification. 389 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:34,810 And the final chapter gives voice to the main livelihood concerns of my challengers, how they perceive coastal vulnerabilities in their own words, 390 00:40:34,810 --> 00:40:42,040 and how this has little to no relation to climatic change such a broader issues of social inequalities and structural violence. 391 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:48,310 So the question then is what happens when livelihood resources cannot be captured through a climate lens? 392 00:40:48,310 --> 00:40:59,410 And I think that's an important part discussed as well. And thank you for your time, and I'll just stop here. 393 00:40:59,410 --> 00:41:07,780 Thank you so much, give India a pretty grim picture reading your book, so thanks for this short and sharp cirrhosis. 394 00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:13,610 OK, so we're next onto. Thank you. 395 00:41:13,610 --> 00:41:29,220 I just done this on one second. Can you all see my screen and hear me clearly, I'm seeing a blank screen. 396 00:41:29,220 --> 00:41:42,730 I don't know if that's it. No, and it just means I have to ask and I don't want to start doing something like, you know, putting. 397 00:41:42,730 --> 00:41:46,720 It should be this. Does it work now? 398 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:50,950 Yes, perfect. Beautiful. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you. 399 00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:56,080 Thanks so much for organising this and for inviting me to join this awesome panel. 400 00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:02,660 I'm going to dive right in. So my current project looks at how techno scientific images I'm thinking of. 401 00:42:02,660 --> 00:42:14,050 Braff's surveys and better infographics shape how we understand and experience climate change, and also how they shape landscapes that we inhabit. 402 00:42:14,050 --> 00:42:19,420 Which is to say, I'm interested in looking at how images are not just representations of change out there, 403 00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:27,430 but have social and material consequences that drive that change. And I'll explain what I mean to one set of technical scientific images. 404 00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:33,970 And these are images that are posted put India's shoreline. 405 00:42:33,970 --> 00:42:39,910 I also work with drawings, particularly comics. And so the slide, you see those drawings. 406 00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:44,950 And hopefully, this will give you a sense of how I think of drawing as a method. 407 00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:50,470 And in doing it, no graphic research. 408 00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:57,910 So in the early hours of July 31, 2012, the inhabitants of Morocco, which is a fishing village in Mumbai, 409 00:42:57,910 --> 00:43:05,760 were beaten by the looming presence of Envy movie about a seventy seven metre long oil tanker. 410 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:14,580 The Coast Guard cast the event as a breach of national security and promised more rigorous routine patrols for Mumbai's nearshore fishing communities. 411 00:43:14,580 --> 00:43:21,450 The police this height, this meant heightened surveillance of coastal waters increase control over boat licences, 412 00:43:21,450 --> 00:43:26,310 and there was the danger that bob it would move with the tide and crash into the village. 413 00:43:26,310 --> 00:43:30,450 Events like a beach tanker and governmental responses to it are windows into the 414 00:43:30,450 --> 00:43:36,090 fundamental disjuncture between the usual fishing and contemporary coastal management. 415 00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:40,830 The divergences are most apparent of the agency to to the non-humans of the shoreline. 416 00:43:40,830 --> 00:43:47,310 For instance, while the fishing community spoke of it as an agent that caused a chain of reaction set within a verbal, 417 00:43:47,310 --> 00:43:51,120 socioeconomic and ecological relationships, 418 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:57,570 the state government treated it as an agent that had breached the line crossing into and guest editorial workers. 419 00:43:57,570 --> 00:44:03,870 So the question I begin with is how do lines appear on the shore, especially over water? 420 00:44:03,870 --> 00:44:11,040 This understanding of beach lines is the direct consequence of India's coastal regulatory zone policy, or CR-Z, 421 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:19,830 that organises the coast, is a bounded territorial unit where resources can be mobilised and borders secured. 422 00:44:19,830 --> 00:44:27,330 Since the postal policy is fundamentally about controlling space, psychographic drawings are vital for implementing it. 423 00:44:27,330 --> 00:44:37,220 The visual this visual control graphic drawings allow allows the government to implement broad based policies in a tightly managed space. 424 00:44:37,220 --> 00:44:45,500 Which is which, and this tightly managed space simplifies fluid and complex relationships that sustain vibrant communities and economies. 425 00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:54,680 For example, to implement the CRC, one of the most important things is the creation of is to demarcate the high tide line as 426 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:59,090 the extent of the caustic substance are only comprehensible in relation to this thing. 427 00:44:59,090 --> 00:45:07,160 And this is this line of work you are showing in my schematic drawing from 1991, when the first YAZID policy was released. 428 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:13,910 The languid extent of the coast was simply offset from the high tide line as a parallel line at a distance of 500 metres, 429 00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:18,020 which continues to be this manner of identifying the. 430 00:45:18,020 --> 00:45:22,640 It does not take into account any land features such as mountains or cliffs, 431 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,680 but simply denotes the high tide line as a line that is placed on a cartographic map. 432 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,380 As from a bird's eye view. 433 00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:40,680 Subsequent notifications have kept the high tide line measured over 10 years as the main line that determines the languid extent of the coast. 434 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:50,610 The 2018 CRC Notification two follows this convention, where the landward edge of the coastal zone is simply offset from the high tide line. 435 00:45:50,610 --> 00:45:55,890 So for the most part, high and low tide lines were established by examining on established by examining 436 00:45:55,890 --> 00:46:00,900 high resolution satellite imagery along with bathymetric and tidal records. 437 00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:10,360 However, with each iteration, as you can perhaps tell from the schematic drawings of the policies, the number of subdivisions have multiplied. 438 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:19,360 The CIA is a policy assumes that the availability of high resolution services makes the process of growing the force relatively straightforward, 439 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:30,240 which is to say that given a green space in Soviet technology. Satellite images can provide an accurate and immediate image of the coast. 440 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,710 So I guess this is it. 441 00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:40,770 Yeah, this creates the sense that the coast is at once comprehensible and increasingly there was a boat to a greater and greater degree. 442 00:46:40,770 --> 00:46:47,460 This accuracy, an immediate immediacy, is directly linked to new forms of extractive environmental regimes because it 443 00:46:47,460 --> 00:46:54,490 allows the AI to atomised the pools as a bundle of resources with fixed potential. 444 00:46:54,490 --> 00:47:03,610 During 2011 2012, I was doing fieldwork in Mumbai's fishing communities amongst families engaged in unusual fishing in a village called Maloney, 445 00:47:03,610 --> 00:47:07,820 which is north of the place where part of it was a beach. 446 00:47:07,820 --> 00:47:18,160 And like this year, it Neosho Fishing takes the post as a fluid entity, which is sustained by complex interdependencies between humans and humans, 447 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:23,890 and I suggest it offers openings to see and draw the post differently. 448 00:47:23,890 --> 00:47:29,800 Nearshore fishing involves a number of improvisational moves that happen in close association with the post, 449 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,550 especially with the Creek, the creek and inlet of water, 450 00:47:33,550 --> 00:47:37,690 but the sea slips into the land mass and their freshwater from lakes and runoff 451 00:47:37,690 --> 00:47:43,240 holes into the sea is an extremely important element in fishing and coastal life. 452 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:51,970 The beginning and end of the fishing season is marked by changes in the behaviour as a chance with the monsoon and is quite enough for the rains. 453 00:47:51,970 --> 00:47:57,490 This behaviour is also a sign to determine the depth that wish to fish as a creek and 454 00:47:57,490 --> 00:48:03,700 see what a thought of as a mixture that is either stirred or still for the fishers. 455 00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:08,230 Creeks, estuaries and bays offer a measure of protection from the direct action of the sea. 456 00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:14,230 Places to park their boats and when the fish open the sea is a place to fish. 457 00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:18,610 Given how fishers actively shape the creek and are shaped by it, 458 00:48:18,610 --> 00:48:26,660 it can be thought of as a blue in which uncertainty citizens risks and possibilities of fishing circulate. 459 00:48:26,660 --> 00:48:34,310 The CEOs, it completely overlooks this point, as it posits an unchanging relationship between the officials and, of course, the landscape. 460 00:48:34,310 --> 00:48:40,670 It assumes that the clique has an integral, unchanging form and its plans end up creating a premium shore. 461 00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:44,780 Such a languid understanding of the shore comes out of long histories of solving 462 00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:51,570 and drawing that reappropriated and drained of fluid coastal waters as property. 463 00:48:51,570 --> 00:48:56,070 An important outcome of this study and reordering is that it shows the posting 464 00:48:56,070 --> 00:49:00,000 of bounded areas that can be disciplined to prevailing policy perspectives, 465 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:08,490 and this is from the Fisheries Department. As far as policies are concerned, Indian fisheries go, that outlook is always been growth oriented. 466 00:49:08,490 --> 00:49:14,550 The bounded areas in the has it become the basis for calculating the potential of the fisheries industry, 467 00:49:14,550 --> 00:49:20,160 which is often described as a sunrise sector with boundless capacity for growth? 468 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:27,690 The fisheries industry policies are informed by long held belief that there is a lot more fish out there than is captured annually. 469 00:49:27,690 --> 00:49:31,800 This is a legacy of the first blue revolution that began in the 1950s, 470 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:39,600 when the Indian government initiated a large-scale programme to modernise fishing boats and to increase the annual fishing use. 471 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:48,120 This policy has. This trend has continued in recent policies, which promote intensive fishing practises such as fishing and busting netting. 472 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,540 And more recently, inland farm fishing, despite evidence of increasing signs of stress on fish stock. 473 00:49:54,540 --> 00:50:01,770 This is a community based small-scale fishers, the most pushing them into continuing cycles of debt and poverty. 474 00:50:01,770 --> 00:50:07,080 Policies like the Second Blue Revolution, which was launched in 2015 by the Department of Fisheries, 475 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:16,190 translate the area of fishing zones into potential catch, a number that is supposed to show your growth. 476 00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:20,600 This is most apparent in the graphs that are published at the central and state level. 477 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:25,350 Year after year, this graph is expected to maintain its upward trend. 478 00:50:25,350 --> 00:50:28,680 As this blast graph follows its vertical trajectory, 479 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:37,680 it enters the complex human non-human relationships that sustain small scale nearshore fishing and fishing economies. 480 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,590 Because they're less intensive, small-scale fishing practises, 481 00:50:40,590 --> 00:50:46,770 things in the smaller total annual yield, for example, in the fishing season between 2010 and 11. 482 00:50:46,770 --> 00:50:50,560 Nearly 500000 tonnes of fish caught in the state of Maharashtra. 483 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:56,100 Out of this, one hundred and forty three thousand tons of fish recorded on the shores of Mumbai, 484 00:50:56,100 --> 00:51:04,980 which accounts for just under 30 percent of the state's catch. And you look at the small cluster of fishing villages where I did my fieldwork. 485 00:51:04,980 --> 00:51:12,930 Average practise predominantly Neosho fishing accounted for just under three percent of the entire state's yearly catch, 486 00:51:12,930 --> 00:51:18,420 and that's a drop in the bucket, according to the Maharashtra department's fisheries estimates. 487 00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:25,890 Each mechanised boat, the boat that's normally used for nearshore fishing, made an average of 91 efforts that year. 488 00:51:25,890 --> 00:51:32,170 The dome effort is basically each time that a boat costs and holds back its nets. 489 00:51:32,170 --> 00:51:34,840 So now this statistic can be read in different ways. 490 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:41,770 It can be taken as the government does as a sign of lack, that small-scale fishing is not a viable practise, 491 00:51:41,770 --> 00:51:47,710 is unsophisticated or traditional, nor conducive to economic growth. 492 00:51:47,710 --> 00:51:52,360 It can bring home the biggest lives officials lead and the tight margins in which they operate, 493 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,630 since each mechanised vessel only ventures out once and feeds, 494 00:51:55,630 --> 00:52:02,030 according to the statistic, making it all the more important to maximise the potential of each catch. 495 00:52:02,030 --> 00:52:08,920 However, the other way to think about the statistic that it is an outcome of an inherent aspect of small-scale fishing, 496 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:16,870 unlike the coast, is a zone of quantified potential. Small-Scale fisheries create the coastal interdependencies that work in the long and short term. 497 00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:25,120 This should not be taken to mean that small-scale fishing lacks technological or economic sophistication, or the numbers in court are irrelevant. 498 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:33,070 Instead, it should be taken to mean that the ways in which small-scale fishing organises the coast makes it far more sustainable in the long term. 499 00:52:33,070 --> 00:52:39,310 So hopefully, this example gives a good sense of the larger project on how drawings manifest as the shore, 500 00:52:39,310 --> 00:52:45,580 and the project itself follows a fourth thought. So firstly, I'm interested in looking at how the ideas of accuracy, accuracy, 501 00:52:45,580 --> 00:52:55,450 immediacy and similar tenacity that are central to techno scientific images and their developmental outcomes getting muddled as they did with LAG. 502 00:52:55,450 --> 00:53:04,420 What are more than human bodies? However, I'm also interested in the business of crafting openings and also because I love signals scientific images. 503 00:53:04,420 --> 00:53:11,350 So even though a number of images spread the futures of sharpened and given over to development, 504 00:53:11,350 --> 00:53:17,950 I'm also interested in looking at how images and acts of drawing them up towards a critical climate politics. 505 00:53:17,950 --> 00:53:23,770 And this really is the larger political commitment in drawing from anthropology as 506 00:53:23,770 --> 00:53:31,180 a way of facing the climate crisis and thinking with anthropology and drawing. 507 00:53:31,180 --> 00:53:38,720 Thanks to throw a totally stunning woman, he had one question about how you presented this beautiful, you know, these beautiful drawings. 508 00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:45,520 So for the person who does that, I think to throw them asset register, so all the drawings in the asset are great. 509 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,780 Thank you. We come back to some of the questions you've just raised here, some of the points. 510 00:53:49,780 --> 00:54:08,690 So onto Nicole, last, but not the least. And again, I think staying with mobility. 511 00:54:08,690 --> 00:54:15,560 Thank you so much. And it is looking at all good. 512 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:23,690 Can you hear me now? Yes. You. All right. Thanks so much, Nicole, for creating this wonderful conversation. 513 00:54:23,690 --> 00:54:30,970 I have learnt for some time now from the work of our fellow panellists that you brought us together to today and then 514 00:54:30,970 --> 00:54:38,030 been thinking with colleagues about the need to think realistically across these coastal megacities of South Asia. 515 00:54:38,030 --> 00:54:41,720 So thank you for making it happen. 516 00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:47,900 It's a real pleasure to actually follow Chiozza, a paper on Waste Conservation, a published last month or two months ago. 517 00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:54,970 Now, I guess, is brilliant for those that want to learn more about the possibilities and potential Detroit coastline. 518 00:54:54,970 --> 00:55:02,270 That's terrific. OK, so let me just jump right in. 519 00:55:02,270 --> 00:55:05,480 This from an early day in April 2019, 520 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:15,230 before the past presidents times of the pandemic that I went out fishing with my and his crew in the waters of could be what at the time, 521 00:55:15,230 --> 00:55:22,160 between December and March of generally peak fishing season, April was still a good time to fish locally, for sure. 522 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:29,800 For now, anxious about getting the good catch on the few fishing days that remained before the monsoons arrived. 523 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:36,200 And this is something we can also think about two inches. I talked about 91 days of effort. 524 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:43,580 Fishing times are quite different from the high rates of the fishers are now anxious 525 00:55:43,580 --> 00:55:49,010 about getting a good catch and the water as pictured here with a beautiful green, 526 00:55:49,010 --> 00:55:54,170 blue and very calm. But my guess? We're not happy seeing it like this. 527 00:55:54,170 --> 00:55:58,880 The water has changed, he told me when I asked him what he thought of his prospects that day. 528 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:05,210 This colour is not so great for catching Pomfret. He said a few days ago, this kid colour of chocolate. 529 00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:13,850 That water is good for comfort. What I was reading as a beautiful clear water, he implied, in contrast, was not so much. 530 00:56:13,850 --> 00:56:16,630 He was right and we caught a few fish that day. 531 00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:25,820 They begin this with this inventive thought describe the ways in which fish read and act the city's changing terrain to dwell in the urban sea. 532 00:56:25,820 --> 00:56:32,600 And I'm taking care a lot with the work, but also with the work of the people of China and Russia, 533 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:37,550 who have also recently described how fish are keenly attuned to the dynamics of colour 534 00:56:37,550 --> 00:56:44,420 tide and when to make livelihoods in the city that they inhabit a city in the sea, 535 00:56:44,420 --> 00:56:50,600 one which is always in flux. But their keen reading of their water is also revealed. 536 00:56:50,600 --> 00:57:00,920 Another truth that's termed that opaque waters of water are full of stuff continued to accompany the stunning depths of human and animal life. 537 00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:06,110 This is for bacteria, for fish and also in relation for fishes. 538 00:57:06,110 --> 00:57:10,370 And that is something to learn from experts and residents of the city to learn here. 539 00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:15,290 Those who continue to imagine that the city is built on stable, dry ground, 540 00:57:15,290 --> 00:57:25,370 even as a sudden ground is always collapsing under our feet and every now almost accustomed for the city to report sinkholes, 541 00:57:25,370 --> 00:57:30,590 Mumbai attacks follow cars or buses every now and then. 542 00:57:30,590 --> 00:57:36,710 In my current research, I ask what we might make of climate change treaties if we shift understanding from imagining we 543 00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:45,020 live under a land landmark and bounded by coastlines to living in the sodden and muddy worlds. 544 00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:55,190 Well, for the teeming with life, toxics and discoloured wealth in which transparency is dead and muddy worlds full of possibility. 545 00:57:55,190 --> 00:58:03,200 In my research, I examine how urban worlds are imagined and made possible with water, not just because waters of significant contemporary concern, 546 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:08,510 but also because it provides a different lens with which to understand urban space and politics. 547 00:58:08,510 --> 00:58:10,850 Scholars have argued of social theory, 548 00:58:10,850 --> 00:58:20,390 has thus fostered a predilection for science as a to it McLean's luck in generating key concepts or understandings of the world. 549 00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:25,490 Think of the language with which he describes theory of personal development stories in the world. 550 00:58:25,490 --> 00:58:31,280 Settle, Grounded, noted, were full of terrestrial metaphors. 551 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:39,270 In my new book, Urban sees a race of coastlines of Mumbai to ask how the city is made in the cities, and in doing so, 552 00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:50,240 this project congeal by thinking with the work of the driving conviction on the design of the lipstick with the of this approach. 553 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,500 The studies of land and topology, objects and geography, I thought, 554 00:58:54,500 --> 00:59:04,670 would be there as available for the making of property and real estate wealth on a provincial land and urban planning for some time now. 555 00:59:04,670 --> 00:59:10,640 Urban planning ends at the coastline. See its land use planning. 556 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:21,640 A planner told me Mumbai was being sued a few years ago. An historian, John Precautious, argues that had been made by colonisation, 557 00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:28,690 a military colonisation of Indians by the British and the colonisation of nature and in particularly the sea by culture. 558 00:59:28,690 --> 00:59:36,430 While British colonisation ended in 1947, the terrestrial cities colonisation of the sea continues to this day. 559 00:59:36,430 --> 00:59:40,510 Scholars have shown how the doctrine of terra nullius, a land claimed by no one, 560 00:59:40,510 --> 00:59:45,010 was keep the establishment of settler colonies in the Americas in Australia. 561 00:59:45,010 --> 00:59:52,780 I think The Simpsons will just like land, so it's water and not just in the new world, but many other worlds. 562 00:59:52,780 --> 00:59:59,390 The greatest colonial city that we've been hearing about today, but also Mumbai, Chennai, Karachi. 563 00:59:59,390 --> 01:00:01,690 And look at that, but also New York, 564 01:00:01,690 --> 01:00:09,370 Singapore and others have not been made by declaring this these wetlands and titled regions and rivers as useless as empty. 565 01:00:09,370 --> 01:00:15,090 They are created by no. One by terra nullius. But up until this? 566 01:00:15,090 --> 01:00:21,820 Going to work on indigenous rights in Australia, indigenous water rights legal scholar Virginia Marshall, 567 01:00:21,820 --> 01:00:28,320 the ongoing set of legal manoeuvres by the Australian states to not rising into the water bodies 568 01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:34,620 on the one hand and to see land and water as distinct formations and property law on the other, 569 01:00:34,620 --> 01:00:38,050 even though the realities are always more money. 570 01:00:38,050 --> 01:00:45,760 I'm very excited, but I think to some, the workshop many years ago looks like the publication is, I thing with my check. 571 01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:50,590 Also, the doctrine of Aqua Nullius show that equanimity is, of course, 572 01:00:50,590 --> 01:00:55,660 the fiction fiction brought into being to permeate both legally and figuratively. 573 01:00:55,660 --> 01:01:04,320 The colonisation of water. Isabel Hofmeyr has called hydro colonialism by the master, the property and real estate. 574 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:13,080 As some have pointed out, we are living in a world in which and after the legacies of these two intersecting and overlapping crises of colonisation 575 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:22,730 exist at the same moment of time of European colonisation and colonisation of water each of precipitated by capitalism. 576 01:01:22,730 --> 01:01:27,710 These ongoing legacies of colonisation and simultaneously manifest in Mumbai's Coastal Road, 577 01:01:27,710 --> 01:01:35,000 ongoing coastal road project and amongst this project that seeks to solidify the sea to render it fit for human traffic. 578 01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:46,880 And you see here the master and the left hand side of the visualisation, a rendering of obstacles, the road project, but it's complete. 579 01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:54,320 I'm not sure if you can see my point, but I'm on the right corner of the picture. 580 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:58,310 You see that little picture of the risks of the monarch's free racecourse, 581 01:01:58,310 --> 01:02:04,640 which itself was made by a colonisation of the sea and reclamation work in the 1920s, 582 01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:09,560 following which you now see the layers of the new road that are added to that. 583 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,730 To that picture of a project that has been realised to this day, 584 01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:24,860 as you see with the land for a picture taken last year on the right look at come forward a lot faster in the emergency's of the coronavirus pandemic. 585 01:02:24,860 --> 01:02:32,270 A third of the project is about the construction of the road, which will host the city's burgeoning fossil fuel car population. 586 01:02:32,270 --> 01:02:40,800 It's a $3 billion subsidy under the subsidy for capitalist modernisation to intensify the climate crisis. 587 01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:48,960 The coastal road didn't come out of nowhere. Most recently, it's a 70 year old plan to modernise the city, the building of coastal highways. 588 01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:57,630 And yet it is also a continuation of four to century long history of building Mumbai in the sea periodic and consistent coastal reclamation. 589 01:02:57,630 --> 01:03:04,560 Most often taken place outside us and often despite the city for development planning process. 590 01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:11,260 And it's made often of the city's bubble and rift. This has been a very profitable project. 591 01:03:11,260 --> 01:03:16,960 Yet these two, essentially the landfill, have not just made Mumbai a megacity, it has also, 592 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:27,430 as my friend pointed out and I quote the vision of the city against the sea for production of a coastline that constantly needs to be fortified. 593 01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:31,840 As I've written about elsewhere to produce the city that's even more vulnerable to flood, 594 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:40,520 and it does so by forgetting the livelihoods of fishers in the occupied Gitai or geographies. 595 01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:48,830 To work in the urban sea is to work in the ongoing story of more than human occupation with which life flows and life societies are made. 596 01:03:48,830 --> 01:03:52,910 I'm thinking here with the work done on heroine Catherine McKittrick. 597 01:03:52,910 --> 01:03:59,420 We've talked about this power of stories to make worlds, and I've been working with social scientists and partners to hone in on these senses 598 01:03:59,420 --> 01:04:04,910 of reading the city in the sea sentences with examples of which I opened with today. 599 01:04:04,910 --> 01:04:10,380 But I also do so both against biographer and in collaboration with many others. 600 01:04:10,380 --> 01:04:20,810 I'm thinking a little bit about the parallel companion projects happening in intimate that other I talked about earlier because the 601 01:04:20,810 --> 01:04:29,210 world is sort of composed of these different projects that are made sensible through different kinds of techniques and technologies. 602 01:04:29,210 --> 01:04:35,690 And so here the work with Fisher and scientists and planners is also collaborative in a way that seeks 603 01:04:35,690 --> 01:04:44,290 to make sense of and fitting together without trying to resolve them into a single analytical frame. 604 01:04:44,290 --> 01:04:48,590 So the I should have introduced the slide that I put up a little bit earlier, 605 01:04:48,590 --> 01:04:55,470 this is a slide from the inhabited fee project that I worked with several other, 606 01:04:55,470 --> 01:05:04,450 including at the mouth of the canal and colleagues to comment on that and to many others to me. 607 01:05:04,450 --> 01:05:13,540 But you can find them on the uninhabited sea website. The climate. 608 01:05:13,540 --> 01:05:20,470 Climate change presents a crisis for academic research, not just in terms of an epistemic crisis, 609 01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:27,580 in terms of the collapsing of natural history in human history. And so I've described it chocolatey quite recently or not so recently, 610 01:05:27,580 --> 01:05:34,900 but also how scholar my tax and participate in the world that have been carved up by disciplinary knowledge is after the challenge. 611 01:05:34,900 --> 01:05:38,710 Them critiques have been posited by this movement, called the Anthropocene. 612 01:05:38,710 --> 01:05:44,470 These different ways of knowing it's one of the points that earlier are hard to all of them, and I'm eager to learn. 613 01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:50,440 But whenever that's needed to think together with colleagues and co-travellers in this process, 614 01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:59,960 learning with Earth scientists, urban planners, fishers and as well as oceanographers in this research. 615 01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:07,610 Nevertheless, even these pathways of doing research are too slow and not enough. 616 01:06:07,610 --> 01:06:12,770 I recall the words of a colleague, Leonard Cohen, 617 01:06:12,770 --> 01:06:20,780 who talked about how he couldn't wait to do this work because if he waited for the usual awkward initialisation of tenure, 618 01:06:20,780 --> 01:06:22,910 like it would be seven years to make it right. 619 01:06:22,910 --> 01:06:31,600 The time the time is now to engage in the world beyond the academy and getting the most beyond university and so on. 620 01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:39,560 So I'm trying to do that in some of the ongoing work, and we talk more about that more of a discussion. 621 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:46,170 But thank you all for your time and also to think with you all. 622 01:06:46,170 --> 01:06:53,580 And critical. Absolutely fabulous. What a fantastic set of presentations and talks by all of you. 623 01:06:53,580 --> 01:07:00,450 Thank you so much. It's been brilliant. Just to pick up on the point that Nicole ended on and I can actually already see a couple 624 01:07:00,450 --> 01:07:06,570 of questions on on this on this very theme of sort of speaking beyond the academy. 625 01:07:06,570 --> 01:07:11,400 Perhaps I can ask my colleague Nicholas Sude to ask the question for us because it's sort 626 01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:18,180 of linked two to one that you would have been talking about an email and think about. 627 01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:22,560 Would you like to go ahead and ask a question, please? Yeah. Can you hear me? 628 01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:27,560 Yes, we can hear you. Hi, everyone. Thanks very much for your presentations. 629 01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:33,420 It was nice to put names of faces to some of the stuff I've been reading from 630 01:07:33,420 --> 01:07:40,650 all of you to bring together the teams off the different presentations you. 631 01:07:40,650 --> 01:07:50,880 You all spoke about the materiality of land and the sea and coast, but you also spoke about unfixable. 632 01:07:50,880 --> 01:08:00,210 Several of you use that word as also relational with the off, you know, land what flora and fauna? 633 01:08:00,210 --> 01:08:03,480 And you spoke about everyday lives and livelihoods, 634 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:16,440 and I was struck by how far you know you are from those sort of sterile climate change discourses that have come to dominate discussion about, 635 01:08:16,440 --> 01:08:25,860 I don't know, adaptation resilience, which almost either put the global south in some sort of vulnerability box or, you know, 636 01:08:25,860 --> 01:08:33,970 it's very hard to imagine the kinds of richness that you bring into your presentations in that kind of discourse. 637 01:08:33,970 --> 01:08:42,870 And yet we can't afford to have these on two separate tracks. So how does your work and this is for any of you, how does your work? 638 01:08:42,870 --> 01:08:54,160 How can it be made to speak productively to those sort of unfortunately, more mainstream discussions? 639 01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:59,610 Who would like to sort of jump in on this notion, please go ahead. 640 01:08:59,610 --> 01:09:03,540 Going to make it then. Thank you very much. That's such a fabulous question. 641 01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:10,200 That is something that I grapple with every day that, you know, the kind of academic work that I do with my colleagues. 642 01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,560 How do we make it relevant in policy terms, essentially? 643 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:21,240 So I think sort of in a in a very simple sense, a sort of sort of the heat project that I'm involved in these days, 644 01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:26,490 which I hope is going to extend forward in many other ways because my colleagues and I find 645 01:09:26,490 --> 01:09:32,040 it's such a critical engagement on so many levels with so many different permutations. 646 01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:42,180 Just thinking about adaptation means that, you know, how do you tap into local forms of urban knowledge on on, 647 01:09:42,180 --> 01:09:49,500 you know, on standards of historical standards and contexts of cooling practises, for instance? 648 01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:54,300 So what does adaptation mean when you leverage it from the ground up? 649 01:09:54,300 --> 01:10:03,540 And so, so I think this question of urban knowledge and its relationship with labouring bodies becomes a very critical one. 650 01:10:03,540 --> 01:10:07,860 So that adaptation thinking about adaptation and vulnerability isn't something that is just not done. 651 01:10:07,860 --> 01:10:11,790 And I should say, actually, it's the question of vulnerability and thermal exposure. 652 01:10:11,790 --> 01:10:18,060 And global warming is not is no longer just a global sales phenomenon, it's it's actually a global phenomenon and also today. 653 01:10:18,060 --> 01:10:25,590 So we only have to see what was happening in Greece and then southern parts of Europe last year in terms of the fires and and the heatwaves. 654 01:10:25,590 --> 01:10:29,790 So this is this is like, you know, this has become increasingly a global issue. 655 01:10:29,790 --> 01:10:33,540 So it's becoming harder to kind of sort of think of these sort of these operators, right? 656 01:10:33,540 --> 01:10:38,760 These these lines in terms of the kind of knowledge that can produce so so that, 657 01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:43,680 you know, vulnerability is something that is only about the global south. And you know, everything is OK in the global north. 658 01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,930 So so I think thinking about. 659 01:10:45,930 --> 01:10:56,820 So for us, it's thinking about local urban knowledge, about resilience, about adaptation, about cooling, about people, their bodies, 660 01:10:56,820 --> 01:10:59,430 how they they deal with issues of thermal comfort, 661 01:10:59,430 --> 01:11:06,720 and that these have perhaps longer contextualised histories of practise of knowledge that is related to materiality. 662 01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:12,270 And how can one find a way to to level this up in terms of framing policy agendas? 663 01:11:12,270 --> 01:11:17,880 And of course, this is a huge challenge. This is by no means something that can happen automatically. 664 01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:21,840 So in the end, you know, in the Pakistan context, no one talks to academics, right? 665 01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,750 So much of what we produce kind of gets lost out there. 666 01:11:24,750 --> 01:11:33,030 And but it also means that we push harder in terms of how we produce our knowledge, how we how we make it, 667 01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:39,300 how we disseminate it, how it reaches out to communities, practitioners and so forth. 668 01:11:39,300 --> 01:11:45,720 So I think that's where some of the bigger challenges lie. I hope I've been able to answer this question from my perspective, at least. 669 01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:53,380 Thank you. Thanks, Bush, you would like to, Nicole, go ahead. 670 01:11:53,380 --> 01:12:02,830 Thanks for that question, it's a really good one, and I think that we have been trying to link experiments with an improvised in the 671 01:12:02,830 --> 01:12:07,840 doing of the response to a question is very much as it's a workable of right. 672 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:16,000 If it's about being a scholarly knowledge production and thinking about it and also finding ways to interfere in these debates, 673 01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:21,820 because the ways in which the climate crisis is addressed and planned for it will have 674 01:12:21,820 --> 01:12:29,870 bearings on how people are able to live in the future and not just be aware of a crisis, 675 01:12:29,870 --> 01:12:36,370 you know, for the consolidation of power and the powerful already which is in crisis typically do what we've seen in this pandemic, right? 676 01:12:36,370 --> 01:12:45,460 So. So this includes work like writing in newspapers to to intervene and reframe the conversations, 677 01:12:45,460 --> 01:12:52,120 to think about planning in, to use my friend to connect to them and also working with city planners. 678 01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:58,360 Currently draughting his climate action plan to not only think from the ground for wetness, 679 01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:07,000 but also to to to to push and to question and to urge a rethinking of who or what kind of office 680 01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:13,870 people having knowledge or people had and what what counts as data brought into these processes, 681 01:13:13,870 --> 01:13:21,550 but also whose lives are grounded in the kinds of strategies that are that are framed right now. 682 01:13:21,550 --> 01:13:27,500 It's one thing to plan for a coming climate crisis if it's quite another to recognise that people 683 01:13:27,500 --> 01:13:33,830 are already living in environments of severe housing and water vulnerability in the present moment. 684 01:13:33,830 --> 01:13:41,380 So how can the climate crisis be an opportunity to to address some of those issues as opposed to to reproduce them again, 685 01:13:41,380 --> 01:13:52,480 as we see with the material for retribution, with the material for a project, for the later by following this conflict with other types of questions. 686 01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:57,650 The other added that she's glad. 687 01:13:57,650 --> 01:14:03,860 Thanks. Thanks, Doctor. I think that's I mean, the really interesting question, I guess I have a slightly different take on it. 688 01:14:03,860 --> 01:14:06,410 You know, and so much of it is political. 689 01:14:06,410 --> 01:14:15,830 What I have gone, we recently observed, is that with the change of government, at least in Tamil Nadu, from any DMK to it to DMK government, 690 01:14:15,830 --> 01:14:18,530 suddenly there's a willingness to I mean, 691 01:14:18,530 --> 01:14:25,220 there was always a process of engaging whether it was through the court or whether it was through interventions in the master plan. 692 01:14:25,220 --> 01:14:30,440 And this is something that, you know, especially the actors collectives have been doing for quite a while. 693 01:14:30,440 --> 01:14:36,920 And and I suppose, you know, official groups who had to had to engage these processes necessarily. 694 01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:43,880 But but with with this time in government, which is, of course, a much larger process that you really have no control over, 695 01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:50,450 obviously, we have no control over when suddenly something seems to have shifted, that seems to be an openness to actually engaging. 696 01:14:50,450 --> 01:14:57,980 And this is, I think at the moment it is very Tamil Nadu specific icon, you know, in more in work for lack of a better word. 697 01:14:57,980 --> 01:15:02,720 You know, BJP government, right wing state, I don't know what's what, what the situation is, 698 01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:07,770 but it seems to be so context dependent on how disengagement happened. That's one. 699 01:15:07,770 --> 01:15:15,410 And even within that, I found, you know, and we've taken a lot of inspiration from because of collectives of Anthropocene. 700 01:15:15,410 --> 01:15:21,350 There's there seems to be a lot more willingness on the part or even even the ones. 701 01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:27,980 We should take some disciplines more seriously than others and some disciplines less seriously than others. 702 01:15:27,980 --> 01:15:31,940 And I suppose we've done some. I mean, all we're trying to do some, you know, 703 01:15:31,940 --> 01:15:39,900 creative mobilisation around this that somebody becomes the front end and somebody becomes the back end. 704 01:15:39,900 --> 01:15:44,150 And how you play that game a little bit is also, I suppose, quite important. 705 01:15:44,150 --> 01:15:47,060 But I mean, these are the strategies to, as Nicole said, you know, 706 01:15:47,060 --> 01:15:55,550 people are already living this and because our interventions are going in in the background, in some this. 707 01:15:55,550 --> 01:15:59,180 So I have to say, in my experience, anthropologist in the least, seriously, 708 01:15:59,180 --> 01:16:05,570 as a discipline, they have to see, I think they will compete for that honour with history. 709 01:16:05,570 --> 01:16:10,480 Well, I guess it is. I could just say, you're an anthropologist. 710 01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:15,920 Cynthia's eyes glaze over. There's nothing you can say that's of any use Chitra. 711 01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:27,420 Please go ahead. Thanks. You know, that's that's a really, really important question, and I guess one of the things that. 712 01:16:27,420 --> 01:16:33,810 I think about as well in redrawing the drawings that the state produces in certain 713 01:16:33,810 --> 01:16:38,880 ways is still kind of baulk at the the temporal frameworks that those drawings use, 714 01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:44,190 which is executor lines of development or 20 or 30 year cycles. 715 01:16:44,190 --> 01:16:49,410 And then the question really is how does one inject them into those very same drawings? 716 01:16:49,410 --> 01:16:51,570 Because those drawings are wonderful, 717 01:16:51,570 --> 01:16:59,520 they're wonderful agents that bring together communities as well because they can kind of work across many different groups. 718 01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:07,230 And one of the outcomes, for instance, for the official community of these decadal things is that climate change in the conversation, 719 01:17:07,230 --> 01:17:16,380 in the way that it goes, it becomes also about displacement. And so if you're faced with life or loss of development potential. 720 01:17:16,380 --> 01:17:25,830 So you will have to react to that. That won't be your thing before you can even articulate like, OK, what's going to happen in the next 500 years, 721 01:17:25,830 --> 01:17:30,390 especially if your house is going to get broken down with the model? So where does the law really come in? 722 01:17:30,390 --> 01:17:35,250 And this is why I find the collective set. What are the funicular working in? 723 01:17:35,250 --> 01:17:44,340 Very, very inspiring? Because even if you look at some of the drawings those are opening to look at really rethink what is what is this? 724 01:17:44,340 --> 01:17:48,390 What is the work that these drawings are doing in producing landscapes? 725 01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:56,030 And so, yeah, that's deliberate. And to redraw them and to kind of put them back into circulation in a different way? 726 01:17:56,030 --> 01:18:02,810 Yeah. I could be to want to. 727 01:18:02,810 --> 01:18:10,890 Thank you. That's an excellent question, and the discussion, I think about a lot of things, so I hope it becomes fit coherent. 728 01:18:10,890 --> 01:18:21,710 I think anthropology is quite interesting, as you were saying, mainly because that's when I started this research on climate change a decade ago, 729 01:18:21,710 --> 01:18:25,490 it was more like, But you are an anthropologist, you're not supposed to look at climate change. 730 01:18:25,490 --> 01:18:29,480 That's for natural scientist. And it's shifted a lot until recent years. 731 01:18:29,480 --> 01:18:33,500 And what we can give, I think, is this environmental ethnography, 732 01:18:33,500 --> 01:18:40,550 the lived experience to contextualise and supplement and compliment and criticise these mainstream debates. 733 01:18:40,550 --> 01:18:43,610 What I find is a pushback from the discipline of anthropologists. 734 01:18:43,610 --> 01:18:49,610 When you try to be relevant, then you get reviewers comments that might say, But this isn't anthropological enough. 735 01:18:49,610 --> 01:18:55,700 Maybe you should go to policy audience so kind of policing boundaries so that you're 736 01:18:55,700 --> 01:18:59,750 not even allowed to be relevant if you want to publish in an anthropology journal, 737 01:18:59,750 --> 01:19:11,060 which I think is problematic for the discipline as a whole. But I am really happy that my book is open access. 738 01:19:11,060 --> 01:19:15,230 It's so it's available for anyone in Bangladesh, even though physical copies. 739 01:19:15,230 --> 01:19:18,080 I haven't managed to find a press in Bangladesh yet. 740 01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:23,510 I would have loved to participant in the talk about MLA, for instance, and pandemic has made it harder. 741 01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:31,680 I've had this idea that, you know, I explained my presence there by saying, I'm writing a book and I want to go back and give my interlocutors books. 742 01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:41,630 So I'm not sure when that can happen, but I'm also trying to collaborate with a lot of Bangladeshi researchers self-management. 743 01:19:41,630 --> 01:19:49,130 So it's quite fascinating how it's shifted to acknowledge the fact that this is a shelter belts that we need title over management, 744 01:19:49,130 --> 01:20:00,410 we need to manage siltation. And more of these debates are being voiced by several different types of actors now and environmental networks. 745 01:20:00,410 --> 01:20:06,590 And I'm hoping things change, but I'm not sure how much an academic book helps with that. 746 01:20:06,590 --> 01:20:16,640 So that's always, I think, an issue. But what I was also thinking is there's this really great organisation called E-card, 747 01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:22,010 led by Professor Saleemul Huq, and they're talking about locally led adaptation, 748 01:20:22,010 --> 01:20:27,290 which I think is quite nice because it does bring in the everyday lives and livelihoods 749 01:20:27,290 --> 01:20:34,430 and what local people thinks into these mainstream climate change discourse. I think we are seeing movements and shifts into how this is needed, 750 01:20:34,430 --> 01:20:41,100 and it's slowly happening with an acknowledgement that there is a lot of climate change as a spice going on. 751 01:20:41,100 --> 01:20:50,810 So maybe we should try to figure out what's what are the environmental problems and letting people speak about it themselves. 752 01:20:50,810 --> 01:20:54,500 I don't know if that makes sense of something I want to express. 753 01:20:54,500 --> 01:21:02,120 Thanks. If I could just ask a follow up question to this and something that all of you've sort of touched upon in your in your presentations, 754 01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:07,760 which is the sort of the place of collaboration. So all of you've collaborated with different kinds of actors, 755 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:12,920 and we've just sort of doctor in response to this question about, you know, speaking to a broader audience. 756 01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,910 This and I wondered whether, you know, present projects in the future. 757 01:21:16,910 --> 01:21:21,260 You're thinking of very actively thinking of different forms of dissemination. 758 01:21:21,260 --> 01:21:24,920 And yet you talked about book being open access and you are trying to make it available in Bangladesh. 759 01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:32,720 But I know some of you have other, you know, sort of projects like Nicole have been reading that they to see work and scroll down, 760 01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:38,810 for instance, and that's been really powerful and noted possibly to get it, you know, get the message into the project across, et cetera. 761 01:21:38,810 --> 01:21:42,950 I've been following the Karachi Open Lab sort of reports, et cetera, that you guys put out. 762 01:21:42,950 --> 01:21:49,790 So I just wondered whether, you know, what role does this thing of writing for the audiences or speaking like how does it 763 01:21:49,790 --> 01:21:53,600 feel going in your current projects and what are the things that you've been doing? 764 01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:58,220 I mean, you throw, of course, your beautiful drawings and all all your Instagram. So I see that. 765 01:21:58,220 --> 01:22:07,720 But yeah, it's just I think you could have a chat about that. No shame, would you like to begin if that's the case? 766 01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:19,950 Okay, no, not at all. Thank you for that question, Annika. So the toolkit of and for dissemination is is a big one. 767 01:22:19,950 --> 01:22:27,570 It's a white one, right? And it's becoming more and more innovative and especially in terms of the kinds of media 768 01:22:27,570 --> 01:22:35,190 platforms and apps and different modes of of engagement that have increasingly become available. 769 01:22:35,190 --> 01:22:39,090 And I know that for my colleagues and I, it's a steep learning curve. So. 770 01:22:39,090 --> 01:22:47,370 So one of the ways and we're trying to push ourselves, of course, we sort of remain quite a how shall I put it, 771 01:22:47,370 --> 01:22:54,360 quite bound to the standard conventional toolkit of disseminating through policy briefs, for instance, 772 01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:59,250 if there is a specific kind of project that makes lends itself well to that kind of that form 773 01:22:59,250 --> 01:23:05,640 of dissemination and then really trying as much as possible to disseminate in order to in, 774 01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:13,110 you know, although or there is no I mean, sitting in sind in the province of Synder do is by no means the only language through which people, 775 01:23:13,110 --> 01:23:17,670 you know, engage in and acquire knowledge and disseminate knowledge. 776 01:23:17,670 --> 01:23:26,830 So in Karachi's a cosmopolitan city, and by that I mean proximity to difference, and there are many, many different audiences. 777 01:23:26,830 --> 01:23:30,790 So, you know, so just putting out something in Urdu recently has been a challenge. 778 01:23:30,790 --> 01:23:36,840 So how do we now try and reach out to audiences who speak Pashto to know, you know? 779 01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:44,310 Karachi contains a very expensive and substantial population. Similarly, you know, Burmese Rohingya. 780 01:23:44,310 --> 01:23:50,400 I mean, it's a long list, right? And then also publishing in Sydney. So we're actually sort of grappling with these kinds of things, do we, 781 01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:56,100 when we don't even have the necessary capacity or the capabilities to be able to translate along those lines? 782 01:23:56,100 --> 01:24:01,650 But these are issues that we think about constantly that in order to make our work seem, you know, 783 01:24:01,650 --> 01:24:07,200 to to reach out to wider or wider, wider audiences, the translation factor is a very important one. 784 01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:13,950 So one other way in which we try to we're trying to surmount that is through short films through, 785 01:24:13,950 --> 01:24:16,500 you know, comics is something that we're thinking about it. 786 01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:22,770 Interest work is so inspiring and we've actually been discussing how can we make some of our Heat 787 01:24:22,770 --> 01:24:29,490 project related findings on street vendors actually more available through through the comic medium? 788 01:24:29,490 --> 01:24:35,160 And I don't know. Just I might reach out to you for some advice in the long run or maybe in the short run in which you 789 01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:40,150 might be able to help us because I think that that's the sort of thing that might be quite useful. 790 01:24:40,150 --> 01:24:47,250 And so I think so. It's a wide toolkit. And and as I said, I think it's one that's becoming so innovative and so interesting, 791 01:24:47,250 --> 01:24:56,530 but at the same time requires a very steep learning curve, at least for myself and my colleagues over the Karachi of. 792 01:24:56,530 --> 01:25:02,280 Thanks for watching. Nicolette, and I interrupted you before this. 793 01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:07,250 No, I think with with the work that we did, that didn't happen at sea, 794 01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:14,430 it was it was relentless experimentation and an openness to messing up or or putting up 795 01:25:14,430 --> 01:25:20,300 stuff that's not fully finished because only in the making effort work for the process, 796 01:25:20,300 --> 01:25:22,510 I found it to be a very generative one. 797 01:25:22,510 --> 01:25:31,200 First, in the moment of like thinking with others that that came to produce this work and workshopping work together, 798 01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:39,780 but then also then making that conversation visible and and publicly accessible in terms of the landscape that we put up. 799 01:25:39,780 --> 01:25:50,820 I wish we had the bandwidth to have it out in more language thinking of some of Karachi urban labs, but perhaps a future project. 800 01:25:50,820 --> 01:26:03,420 But at this stage, we were thinking a lot about, you know, what know was having of like both author writing about popular news media and in some ways, 801 01:26:03,420 --> 01:26:12,630 having trying to find ways for that work to enter the planning process on Climate Action Plan, a planning process in which, 802 01:26:12,630 --> 01:26:20,640 like in Chennai, is unexpectedly and momentarily open, even as all the colonial work continues. 803 01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:22,140 Right. So, so, 804 01:26:22,140 --> 01:26:33,330 so trying to find those moments of engagement and trying to exclude them or employed them if you want to a different way of thinking about the 15. 805 01:26:33,330 --> 01:26:42,020 Great, thanks, Nicole. Anybody else like to jump in on this and the dissemination point children, please? 806 01:26:42,020 --> 01:26:46,850 I thank you. Something I think a lot, a lot, actually. 807 01:26:46,850 --> 01:26:50,440 What what comics are doing? And it's comics. 808 01:26:50,440 --> 01:26:53,160 I think they're wonderful because they say, 809 01:26:53,160 --> 01:27:00,020 what did you see putting images and words together to create these parallel narratives that build off of each other? 810 01:27:00,020 --> 01:27:06,590 And the the thing about them is that it's a little paradoxical because on the one hand, 811 01:27:06,590 --> 01:27:13,370 is so what has happened to me is that while I find that drawing comics really does draw in a lot of people, 812 01:27:13,370 --> 01:27:17,240 and that's great as Eskom, you're saying, 813 01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:27,170 there's a lot of explaining I have to do within my own university context to show how this is scholarship and not just about public dissemination. 814 01:27:27,170 --> 01:27:32,300 So kind of cuts both ways. And do so. 815 01:27:32,300 --> 01:27:36,740 Or, like, you know, just everything simplified, the image simplifies it. 816 01:27:36,740 --> 01:27:38,630 And so in some sense, 817 01:27:38,630 --> 01:27:48,560 I think one of the things I tried to do in in my work is to not leave the drawings because then it makes the drawings secondary to the text, 818 01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:53,150 but really a lot of the drawings to just work for themselves. 819 01:27:53,150 --> 01:28:00,860 And it's it's been a learning process because in the moment the if you look at my drawings, 820 01:28:00,860 --> 01:28:05,960 they're all very text heavy and the images still, they work in a certain way. 821 01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:11,600 So what I want to push towards is to kind of break that and hopefully that will actually 822 01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:19,640 help the work circulate even more widely across different disciplinary boundaries. 823 01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:23,690 So it's kind of a process, and it's experimenting with the drawing here. 824 01:28:23,690 --> 01:28:33,620 This is a lot of fun to think about as a way of coming at disseminating things really powerful way to think about dissemination. 825 01:28:33,620 --> 01:28:38,510 Absolutely. I don't think either of you want to add anything. 826 01:28:38,510 --> 01:28:42,610 Yeah, go ahead. Thanks. Thank you for that question. 827 01:28:42,610 --> 01:28:49,100 I think, you know, I just answered or whatever, you know, think with the few few questions that have come up. 828 01:28:49,100 --> 01:28:58,750 So I think and connect them a little bit to Davos question initially about ontologies and ideas, the making of different epistemology and archaeology. 829 01:28:58,750 --> 01:29:02,350 And then I'll connect that dissemination. But you know, the question is very interesting. 830 01:29:02,350 --> 01:29:10,210 So I'm looking at a map show, for instance, that's made by a fisher, but also a map of Saarinen. 831 01:29:10,210 --> 01:29:17,020 And he's defined this whole region of North Chennai through the concept and idea of parties. 832 01:29:17,020 --> 01:29:21,670 But at the same time, it's it's a map that is very specific in terms of his geographies. 833 01:29:21,670 --> 01:29:31,420 It's a map that uses certain very old-school Cartesian techniques, but redefines them in a slightly different kind of way. 834 01:29:31,420 --> 01:29:37,570 Whereas on the other hand, you have someone like Paliwanag who actually has no interest in this Cartesian map, 835 01:29:37,570 --> 01:29:40,780 although they might be from similar ish communities. 836 01:29:40,780 --> 01:29:47,500 And so are different epistemology that are emerging even within many of these sort of counter movements. 837 01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:53,510 Or even I wouldn't be. I don't even know whether I should call them comfortable with because this state is engaging with them now quite closely. 838 01:29:53,510 --> 01:29:59,350 So I don't know how counter it is anymore. So I think it's very interesting to think about, is it possible? 839 01:29:59,350 --> 01:30:04,900 I think that's connected to what Dr Seuss has put up in the chat that. 840 01:30:04,900 --> 01:30:14,980 You know, there is there is this kind of closure between the question of science and so-called indigenous knowledge is happening quite quickly, 841 01:30:14,980 --> 01:30:18,580 and I think and Chitra mentioned that actually the university has to catch up. 842 01:30:18,580 --> 01:30:24,460 So just in terms of dissemination clearly, and Bhavani and I were thinking about this project when we started, 843 01:30:24,460 --> 01:30:28,240 we just didn't imagine this as a monograph for us to give articles, 844 01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:33,370 etc. We had to actually get to that in almost the inverse way where we started to think about, 845 01:30:33,370 --> 01:30:36,910 OK, what do we do with so many different kinds of thoughts? 846 01:30:36,910 --> 01:30:43,240 And epistemology is that, you know, looking at people like Nicole and Chitra really helped us because they were doing really 847 01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:46,960 diverse stuff where they were also able to bring in different kinds of disciplines. 848 01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:53,620 And it's only now that we actually think about how does this translate into academic research, that's been a very interesting process, 849 01:30:53,620 --> 01:31:01,260 but I think that these university spaces need to kind of adjunct to this as well at some point. 850 01:31:01,260 --> 01:31:08,310 Thanks, ED. I think the point you made about the closure between what's called science and its indigenous knowledge and what's what. 851 01:31:08,310 --> 01:31:14,050 I mean, science and goods and indigenous knowledge on what to do and how they sort of overlapping in really interesting ways, 852 01:31:14,050 --> 01:31:20,130 it's one of the most interesting to my mind. Aspects of climate studies of climate climate change work at the moment. 853 01:31:20,130 --> 01:31:28,740 So I think they're that had put that in the in the chat so that there was no me to indicate those comments. 854 01:31:28,740 --> 01:31:33,420 I missed that. Yeah, I'll leave that out in a minute. 855 01:31:33,420 --> 01:31:40,140 Go ahead. No, thank you. Also, in terms of what our future projects might do for dissemination. 856 01:31:40,140 --> 01:31:45,870 So I'm currently on a project looking at ship breaking and the southeast coastal 857 01:31:45,870 --> 01:31:50,400 zone of Bangladesh as part of a larger project on the lifecycle of container ships. 858 01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:55,050 And they're we're thinking of having a museum exhibit, 859 01:31:55,050 --> 01:32:03,510 and a lot of my colleagues are also for their projects doing podcast series seminars series as a way of reaching out. 860 01:32:03,510 --> 01:32:09,840 So being a bit more engaged and I was really inspired by Ogechi and his colleagues work on digitalising maps. 861 01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:17,430 I have so many maps from my time at the British Library that I have no idea what to do with. 862 01:32:17,430 --> 01:32:23,180 I'm not technical or anything, but I was thinking of what my booking would have been so great to layer them. 863 01:32:23,180 --> 01:32:30,240 I have no idea how to do that, so I see a lot of room for collaboration with people who know, you know, like this drawing. 864 01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:40,110 And I think there's a lot we can learn or do together and reaching people or the publics by working together. 865 01:32:40,110 --> 01:32:44,820 And the question from my should I try to respond to that? 866 01:32:44,820 --> 01:32:49,110 I think they have to ask that question. That's okay. 867 01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:54,510 And we can maybe dig that. I just wanted to read out a comment from anybody. 868 01:32:54,510 --> 01:32:59,330 But you said in response to what you will said in response to the next question you, 869 01:32:59,330 --> 01:33:03,990 she says that for those of us in universities would teach young people that one day we can also be pushing move across, 870 01:33:03,990 --> 01:33:09,750 teaching our classes and policy schools, media, schools, etc. outside of the Springfields. 871 01:33:09,750 --> 01:33:16,080 So I'm thinking a lot more of our students as our publics, who are in turn accountable to other publics, plan to go out in the world. 872 01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:20,520 I think that's really important point also given the different academics and we sort of, you know, 873 01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:26,880 have young students of this spoke to things of the commentary and what I was about to ask this question. 874 01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:34,170 I know that they have sort of kind of answered it, but perhaps we can just have go on it and then my I'll come to you after that. 875 01:33:34,170 --> 01:33:38,380 So that one had a question for specifically about that. 876 01:33:38,380 --> 01:33:46,980 Thanks. It is really interesting. I mean, all of these conversations are talking to each other and really making sense. 877 01:33:46,980 --> 01:33:52,260 What I can when something that I just touched upon earlier is, you know, 878 01:33:52,260 --> 01:34:01,440 the whole point about these multiple acknowledges or multiple ways of knowing what practising worked or engaging important. 879 01:34:01,440 --> 01:34:09,630 What I realised is that we have enough understanding about how these ontological polarities have existed across the world in different contexts, 880 01:34:09,630 --> 01:34:16,260 in different settings. What I see is the question that is also being to the earlier discussion around mobilising 881 01:34:16,260 --> 01:34:24,720 a lot of these knowledge is what we see is even now the the the kind of approach is, 882 01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:31,800 is to mobilise them through programmes and policies. And that is where the question of what is epidemiology is done because there 883 01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:36,930 we kind of again engage with some sort of mainstream epistemology as late as, 884 01:34:36,930 --> 01:34:39,270 you know, like the civil society, for example, 885 01:34:39,270 --> 01:34:45,150 there was a difference in attitudes presentation about activist movements and other organisations engaging. 886 01:34:45,150 --> 01:34:48,900 What I see is, and particularly from a broader sector perspective and speaking, 887 01:34:48,900 --> 01:34:59,200 is a lot of them still engage with a very technical scientific approach of universal knowledge of say, 888 01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:06,030 for example, a lot of organisations are developing Work-Life Balance tools or, you know, whatever existing methods and things like that. 889 01:35:06,030 --> 01:35:13,620 And that is something that is taken up through programmes like doctors and usually or not or many other such programmes that don't work. 890 01:35:13,620 --> 01:35:18,180 So that is where the question comes about these spaces for engaging with these knowledge 891 01:35:18,180 --> 01:35:25,650 and how do we kind of bring them to to shape our policies and discourses going forward? 892 01:35:25,650 --> 01:35:33,210 So there is something that I wanted to discuss something more on that aspect. 893 01:35:33,210 --> 01:35:41,680 That's. Thanks. I think they would like to take this idea as a really great question, and I think, you know, 894 01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:51,000 all the panellists probably have something from that, from their own context, that's really valuable and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. 895 01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:56,470 I mean, just two quick things. So first, I think. 896 01:35:56,470 --> 01:36:05,890 That there is no getting away in some sense from this techno scientific imagination because it's having such immediate, 897 01:36:05,890 --> 01:36:13,870 fast running sort of impact on on everyday life that there's that there seems to be no getting away from it, which is why I was suggesting that, 898 01:36:13,870 --> 01:36:24,730 you know, the coexistence of these multiple kind of epistemic perspectives of both a different kind of imagination for restaurant space, 899 01:36:24,730 --> 01:36:32,170 possibly, but also one that seriously engages the Cartesian imagination, but pushes that in a slightly different direction. 900 01:36:32,170 --> 01:36:35,680 But the techno scientific imagination that you're talking about is actually taking this. 901 01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:43,390 At least that's what I would argue is taking this perspective quite seriously. You I don't think there is an ignorance, at least from my context. 902 01:36:43,390 --> 01:36:49,270 That's one. The second point, I think, is a much, I suppose, a much more fuzzy one, 903 01:36:49,270 --> 01:36:57,730 which I'm not I'm not 100 percent sure about is, you know, I was quite inspired by people like Matthew again, 904 01:36:57,730 --> 01:37:06,130 Matthew Gandhi, et cetera, who you know or, you know, you can think about Sean Nixon's recent film on on Telluride, where I haven't. 905 01:37:06,130 --> 01:37:12,100 I've only watched bits and pieces of the film. I need to watch the whole thing, but it kind of ties. 906 01:37:12,100 --> 01:37:16,120 There is air pollution to its non-human creatures of black kites. 907 01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:22,570 Why black kites are dropping to the ground. Who cares for these black kites which drop to the ground? 908 01:37:22,570 --> 01:37:25,870 And why is that linked to communal sort of poison? 909 01:37:25,870 --> 01:37:34,300 So I think it's very difficult, in other words, to separate these these ontologies from from one another anymore. 910 01:37:34,300 --> 01:37:37,120 And that's what I'm actually. I'm actually struggling. I not struggling. 911 01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:42,240 I think maybe it's a productive thing that it's as Michael called it, it's kind of a relentless experimentation, right? 912 01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:46,150 And maybe these are the mediums, comics, films, et cetera, which I'm not really skilled in. 913 01:37:46,150 --> 01:37:56,290 So maybe I should now leave the floor often to others. 914 01:37:56,290 --> 01:38:03,670 So why would anybody like to add to what they just said? 915 01:38:03,670 --> 01:38:12,860 No, I think that they're sort of covered it. Thank you for your questions, I would admire if you'd like to please go ahead and ask your question. 916 01:38:12,860 --> 01:38:20,060 Gary, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Yeah, I already typed it in the chad because I didn't know if the mike thing would work, 917 01:38:20,060 --> 01:38:26,180 but yeah, I think it's especially relevant to comedian Ed, but anyone can come in. 918 01:38:26,180 --> 01:38:30,110 I mean, I think it's kind of a general trend right now. 919 01:38:30,110 --> 01:38:36,020 And I mean, it's good in a way that that NGOs and scholars are kind of, yeah, 920 01:38:36,020 --> 01:38:46,880 part as part of this kind of decolonising development and climate change, prioritising local knowledge and kind of community based knowledge. 921 01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:54,620 But I think this kind of reproduces this, this this narrative where where local communities and people are displayed in 922 01:38:54,620 --> 01:38:59,450 this really spatially and temporally static or specific way where you know, 923 01:38:59,450 --> 01:39:03,650 they have per default all these nature based logics. 924 01:39:03,650 --> 01:39:10,940 And it's kind of, yeah, I think and also and this is what I derived also from one of cameleers articles, 925 01:39:10,940 --> 01:39:18,290 is that it might also rub local people's agency because we or, well, kind of, 926 01:39:18,290 --> 01:39:25,910 I guess, development practitioners and stuff like that and only internalise them by way of of the 927 01:39:25,910 --> 01:39:32,570 kind of very sustainable and idealistic logics and knowledge is that they should have. 928 01:39:32,570 --> 01:39:41,990 And thus, whilst it is really these people also have agency in the way that they navigate and shift 929 01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:47,310 between what is what is generally known as scientific knowledge or indigenous knowledge. 930 01:39:47,310 --> 01:39:58,970 And my question, therefore is how in scholarship, but also in policies and in practise, can we move towards a more balanced and more fluid? 931 01:39:58,970 --> 01:40:05,540 Well, in the theme of water, I suppose more fluid understanding of the nuances between what we see as indigenous 932 01:40:05,540 --> 01:40:10,220 knowledge versus scientific knowledge or local knowledge versus local knowledge. 933 01:40:10,220 --> 01:40:18,200 Because, yeah, it is very fluid. And yeah, how can we kind of implement that across across fields and across practises? 934 01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:23,120 I'm sorry that was very rambling, but I hope. I hope it's clear. Thank you. 935 01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:27,920 Thanks, man. Camilla, would you like to jump in? 936 01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:35,390 Thank you, Maya, for that question. I think it's a very important one where we, as scholars should try to, I think, 937 01:40:35,390 --> 01:40:42,140 resist this discourse of a dichotomy between scientific and indigenous knowledges. 938 01:40:42,140 --> 01:40:46,950 And as you mentioned that article, I'm really happy you read it. 939 01:40:46,950 --> 01:40:58,750 It shows code-switching, right? So the same types of knowledges and discourses are contained within the very same person where you 940 01:40:58,750 --> 01:41:08,420 know you have a World Bank project employee talking about embankments as climate change adaptation, 941 01:41:08,420 --> 01:41:15,890 but also knowing that they call siltation and navigating between and having this knowledge right. 942 01:41:15,890 --> 01:41:20,510 And in terms of dissemination, if you talk about the elephant in the room, 943 01:41:20,510 --> 01:41:27,800 which is siltation and embankments, you might get blacklisted, which I go more into depth with in the book. 944 01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:33,920 So I think it's really hard to separate. 945 01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:40,340 These two is indigenous versus scientific knowledge or local versus not local because you also have Westerners. 946 01:41:40,340 --> 01:41:47,370 So Joseph Hanlon has written a great article also about silt and tidal river management and how that's obstructed by donors. 947 01:41:47,370 --> 01:41:53,600 And so it depends on how much you know in this setting in Bangladesh, right? 948 01:41:53,600 --> 01:42:00,560 And it doesn't matter really where you're from. And Jason Collins have also done excellent critiques of such discourses. 949 01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:08,990 So I think it's always going to be hard to resist the narratives of donors and how you're going to do that, 950 01:42:08,990 --> 01:42:14,330 I think, is something that academics have struggled with for a very long time. 951 01:42:14,330 --> 01:42:19,460 And we just have to resist reproducing these stereotypes, I think. 952 01:42:19,460 --> 01:42:25,510 And in terms of decolonising development, that's something I also talk about and that is giving history and context. 953 01:42:25,510 --> 01:42:34,610 You know, these are this is the historical context, like how as research also beautifully shows how this is money factored into Title River, 954 01:42:34,610 --> 01:42:38,220 you know, not just saying that everything is due to sea level rise. 955 01:42:38,220 --> 01:42:45,200 And oh, and this is indigenous knowledge is here. And this is scientific knowledge for showing how this knowledge comes into being 956 01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:49,220 and who are the actors pushing certain types of knowledge is over others, 957 01:42:49,220 --> 01:42:54,500 and I found that James Scott seemed like a state has been extremely useful for a lot of different things, 958 01:42:54,500 --> 01:42:58,160 even the pandemic, you know, with the high modernist ideology, 959 01:42:58,160 --> 01:43:07,040 I think Nickeil also uses that in this work and a checklist of associations because for some reason, 960 01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:12,410 embankments were resisted in the 1990s in Bangladesh when with the flood action plan. 961 01:43:12,410 --> 01:43:16,850 But now they've been able to go had full steam ahead this climate adaptation infrastructure. 962 01:43:16,850 --> 01:43:25,290 And why is that? Is it because that funding actually lets them do canal excavation and repair broken embankments that are needed as roads? 963 01:43:25,290 --> 01:43:33,070 Maybe. I don't know if that responded to your question, Maya. 964 01:43:33,070 --> 01:43:40,840 Thanks coming in the do they want to go ahead and then other day, if you wanted to add anything, they can go ahead. 965 01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:44,230 Yeah, thanks for that question. I think it's a good one. 966 01:43:44,230 --> 01:43:50,440 I think imagination is something separate from scientific knowledge is problematic for all the reasons you point out. 967 01:43:50,440 --> 01:43:50,860 And actually, 968 01:43:50,860 --> 01:43:59,110 there's a longstanding debate around forest conservation and protection around protection of biodiversity in national parks and the like, 969 01:43:59,110 --> 01:44:07,250 where scholars of environmental history and environmental anthropology have shown how the separation between indigenous and scientific knowledge, 970 01:44:07,250 --> 01:44:10,030 the threat of a colonial project. 971 01:44:10,030 --> 01:44:17,740 I recall I to world peace and the divide between indigenous and scientific knowledge as one good example of that critique. 972 01:44:17,740 --> 01:44:28,090 Right. And definitely, you cannot just assume that indigenous people, especially those that are living in cities like, well, 973 01:44:28,090 --> 01:44:38,500 maybe I think more broadly everywhere else as well live outside of the logic of the beings and the becoming of capitalist urban processes, right? 974 01:44:38,500 --> 01:44:44,410 So this is not that of a separation or that these indigenous people are afraid of capitalist. 975 01:44:44,410 --> 01:44:49,840 Fifth, most efficient I work with intimately involved in industrial and urban processes as well. 976 01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:59,260 But it's just to say that there are other ways of sensing, reading and acting in a landscape in a city that are not subsumed by capitalist logics. 977 01:44:59,260 --> 01:45:06,940 For example, right now, I'm thinking of Marisol de la Cadenas work and often got that where she talks about indigenous 978 01:45:06,940 --> 01:45:12,610 residents living in and more than one but less than two works suggesting that there is. 979 01:45:12,610 --> 01:45:19,900 There are other ways of being that fit on and articulate with each other, in particular kinds of mortgage. 980 01:45:19,900 --> 01:45:29,710 So I think that that is kind of true, not just of indigenous people, but I think more broadly for everyone else, including all of us as well. 981 01:45:29,710 --> 01:45:40,390 And it's to make those other ways of sensing, knowing and reading visible, having a conversation with each other in cities that we are working. 982 01:45:40,390 --> 01:45:50,070 Thanks, Nicole. The thing, did your dad anything? No, does anybody else want to jump in that to represent? 983 01:45:50,070 --> 01:46:02,340 Thanks. And also, thank you for his work on indigenous articulation and going to political possibilities, the indigenous dialogues, 984 01:46:02,340 --> 01:46:10,710 because that's a very important thing in the fishing communities because of goalie identity in relation to regional politics. 985 01:46:10,710 --> 01:46:17,700 It's become a very important thing to articulate in order to maintain some kind of security where 986 01:46:17,700 --> 01:46:26,130 land rights and housing and that kind of feeds into right wing politics in very interesting ways. 987 01:46:26,130 --> 01:46:33,000 So in some sense, thinking about the complexities of articulating indigenous identity is also interesting 988 01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:38,580 in a lot of these cases because they may not necessarily always be about the knowledge, 989 01:46:38,580 --> 01:46:48,960 but they could also, in many ways be about the articulation of indigenous identity could also be about actually conforming, 990 01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:57,020 but really going along with development provisions, but for tactical reasons and norms of making sure that displacement doesn't happen. 991 01:46:57,020 --> 01:47:04,920 Single securing livelihood and security because those things take on a sense of urgency, 992 01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:13,050 and that kind of articulation is immediately recognisable and allows for certain kinds of political direction. 993 01:47:13,050 --> 01:47:17,820 So it's really kind of modern. Think about it. 994 01:47:17,820 --> 01:47:22,380 Thanks. Yeah, thanks to Laura. OK. 995 01:47:22,380 --> 01:47:30,650 So we're almost out of time. But I think, Nicole, you had a question if you wanted to go ahead and ask that, and that would be the final question. 996 01:47:30,650 --> 01:47:34,700 Sure, can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Right, thank you. 997 01:47:34,700 --> 01:47:41,570 First of all, the panellists for such interesting presentations in the conversation so far, 998 01:47:41,570 --> 01:47:47,480 the kind of thoughts and sharing on locally embedded sources of knowledge just made 999 01:47:47,480 --> 01:47:52,220 me think about our use of the word innovation when speaking about climate change 1000 01:47:52,220 --> 01:48:01,190 and especially how that word has is so often now co-opted by these really top down 1001 01:48:01,190 --> 01:48:04,940 and high modernist like we just mentioned approaches to addressing climate change. 1002 01:48:04,940 --> 01:48:13,850 So I kind of have two interrelated questions. The first being how does our understanding of the term innovation in the conversation 1003 01:48:13,850 --> 01:48:18,080 surrounding climate change and South-Asian need to be expanded and redefined? 1004 01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:23,810 And also just my body uniquely used in a specific regional context? 1005 01:48:23,810 --> 01:48:31,400 And secondly, though, is the use of the word innovation and our current understanding of innovation, 1006 01:48:31,400 --> 01:48:34,850 pushing us to ignore locally embedded sources of knowledge. 1007 01:48:34,850 --> 01:48:45,380 And is it leading states and just the world in general to favour private sector LED models to create novel solutions to address climate change? 1008 01:48:45,380 --> 01:48:51,280 Thank you. Thank you, Nicole. 1009 01:48:51,280 --> 01:49:06,120 We would like to. Mick, I can I think you know of. 1010 01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:18,120 There is a lot of excitement around thinking about what innovation as a mode of like adapting to and responding to the climate crisis, right? 1011 01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:25,320 And I'm here to think of the time that we sort of what was meant by that sort of anticipation 1012 01:49:25,320 --> 01:49:31,440 of like techno managerial fantasies to like produce something doesn't quite excited. 1013 01:49:31,440 --> 01:49:35,820 And so, you know, one way to respond to it is to critique it, right? 1014 01:49:35,820 --> 01:49:50,790 We're talking about how particular kinds of techno managerial fixes are frequently brought into being that recapitulate or harm and really solidify. 1015 01:49:50,790 --> 01:50:01,200 Power inequities. But I think what I also do in these in these moments or try to do it at least, is to use the opening challenge, 1016 01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:10,710 but innovation to critique and point to the staleness of like high modernist approaches 1017 01:50:10,710 --> 01:50:16,230 to respond to the to the climate crisis and to talk about other imaginations 1018 01:50:16,230 --> 01:50:23,370 that are in Typekit and all around us as a way to to do things anew on the debris of 1019 01:50:23,370 --> 01:50:29,930 on the rubble of like modernist infrastructures and modes of living in the world. 1020 01:50:29,930 --> 01:50:36,780 So it's just hard, particularly for Toyota, the way in which it try to respond to that. 1021 01:50:36,780 --> 01:50:44,370 But it is a conversation that I like other conversation is participating in with much of these. 1022 01:50:44,370 --> 01:50:49,570 For this, you suggest. Thank you, Michael. A machine, please. 1023 01:50:49,570 --> 01:50:58,680 Yeah, thank you. So I'm thinking on the innovation point that suddenly in, you know, in the olden studies, an enhanced quality literature, 1024 01:50:58,680 --> 01:51:05,640 there's been a conscious effort to to kind of complicate the the innovation aspect by 1025 01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:12,150 bringing in new ways of thinking around dynamics and issues of repair and maintenance. 1026 01:51:12,150 --> 01:51:22,440 I mean, I point to your work, for instance, and to the work of people like Abdul-Malik, Simon and then a sarcasm bruto and so, so many others. 1027 01:51:22,440 --> 01:51:30,690 And also aligning that with, you know, with the sort of literature on care and the body and all of this. 1028 01:51:30,690 --> 01:51:34,650 I think it's a very exciting moment. Actually, I certainly do find it in the urban context, 1029 01:51:34,650 --> 01:51:40,260 particularly exciting and very thought-provoking that, you know, innovation to guard all of that, 1030 01:51:40,260 --> 01:51:46,050 the sort of very romanticisation of of how the poor, the marginalised, the working class sort of, 1031 01:51:46,050 --> 01:51:51,390 you know, touch their life together in the face of all kinds of challenges. 1032 01:51:51,390 --> 01:51:57,210 So I think that there are these, these new possibilities, these new ways of thinking that take us away from the standard, 1033 01:51:57,210 --> 01:52:02,100 more technocratic, more romantic ways of engaging with issues of innovation. 1034 01:52:02,100 --> 01:52:10,470 So that, to me, is quite productive, and I certainly do apply that in my own work and I hope to expand on it, for instance, when we think about heat. 1035 01:52:10,470 --> 01:52:13,110 So, you know, repairing the body and, you know, 1036 01:52:13,110 --> 01:52:19,050 in conversations with epidemiologists and anthropologists and architects, the buildings, the built environment, right, 1037 01:52:19,050 --> 01:52:27,270 and the sort of these early nationalities bring up particularly interesting ways to think about to probably imitate innovation, 1038 01:52:27,270 --> 01:52:33,090 you know, through the lens of repair and maintenance and care and so forth. So, so yeah, I just wanted to make that point. 1039 01:52:33,090 --> 01:52:37,720 Thank you. Interesting, thank you much. 1040 01:52:37,720 --> 01:52:46,540 Any money to add to what was just said or if you have any Final Thoughts ideas and to leave us because he's teaching 1041 01:52:46,540 --> 01:52:52,030 and I know people over time now and I know Nicholas as a class and other people have lots of stuff going on. 1042 01:52:52,030 --> 01:52:57,610 So we should wind up now. But if anybody wanted to put a last thought, final thought, please go ahead. 1043 01:52:57,610 --> 01:53:02,010 This is a moment. No. 1044 01:53:02,010 --> 01:53:06,480 OK. Well, thank you all so much. This was like, seriously, just absolutely brilliant. 1045 01:53:06,480 --> 01:53:10,110 You know, this is like my genes managed to come together on climate change. 1046 01:53:10,110 --> 01:53:18,300 I hope we can all meet in a real room and discuss, discuss your amazing work and many of the themes that we picked up. 1047 01:53:18,300 --> 01:53:22,800 And there was so many intersecting interesting points, and I'd love to be able to, you know, 1048 01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:27,330 flesh them out a bit more so hopefully in a more intense workshop at some point in the future. 1049 01:53:27,330 --> 01:53:32,460 So thank you so much, Professor Unburnt Chithra Nicole Media. 1050 01:53:32,460 --> 01:53:39,900 Thank you all for being here. They are in absentia. Thank you. Thank you all for the great questions and thank you for being there today. 1051 01:53:39,900 --> 01:53:46,710 This is going to be this has been recorded, so we will be putting it up on our website so you can hopefully have, 1052 01:53:46,710 --> 01:53:50,370 you know, if you missed something, you can come back to it here. Great. 1053 01:53:50,370 --> 01:53:54,690 OK, but everybody have a good day here. Good night wherever you are. Thank you, everyone. 1054 01:53:54,690 --> 01:53:56,288 Thank you. Bye bye.