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I wish I could be in Oxford soon, I hope.

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I must apologise at the outset for the somewhat miscellaneous quality of the statement.

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Because Gandhi was so proud to give his fundamental outlook very comprehensive, preach.

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I'd like to convey a wide scope, thematic sense of the richness of his own imagination.

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So I'll begin with some themes hitting historiography crude remarks.

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Move on to Gandhi's critique of a certain conception of rationality that emerged in the modern period.

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And reflect on the differences he registered between India and the modern political economies of European nations.

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And then conclude, which with an extended discussion of what everyone finds the most implausible side of the mechanism,

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his deep growing scepticism about modern medicine. It's a pity that I won't have the time.

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Nobody without the luxury of appropriate treatment really has that time together.

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This miscellany of themes into an integrated framework of design to modernism that Gandhi deserves.

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There's nothing to do but to acknowledge that and proceed.

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There's a great natural tendency to think that hints at each.

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Represents the reactionary gunmen who oppose modernity.

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Position from which you then slowly back-pedal over the next few decades,

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is he allowed to experience the long anti-colonial struggle he led to educate him to its more progressive ideas and outreach?

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That's fine, refinery treating, sympathetic reading of Gandhi.

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As I said, this is a natural reading of a lot of reading that shows much comprehension of this deepest intellectual and political motives.

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It's a reading which from the very outset rules out possibility that one might interpret as A. modernism as itself being progressed.

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Now, it might seem that there's something startling,

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something almost paradoxical about using the word progressive, as I just have in my last sentence.

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After all, the whole point of the contrast between reactionary and progressive derives

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from an ideal of progress in which the past is overcome in one's emergency,

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and to hark back to it is reaction. Well, to embrace one's modernity is to be progressive.

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How then, can a stance of anti modernity be said to be progressive without paradox?

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But the seeming paradoxes amicably resolved if I replaced all occurrences of the word progressive in what I've said so far with the word rather.

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I don't mean radical in the very general sense of a vehement upending of conventional thinking at its very roots.

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Even fascism is radical in that very general sense.

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I mean, rather radical in the quote, usual specific sense that left wing commentary intends to self describe its own conception of politics,

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but which has often been muggings, but equating that politics with what it describes as progressive politics, thereby ruling out from the outset.

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As I said, that one can be both anti modernist and radical in this more specific sense that the Left broadly aspires to be.

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To put it in a word I'm asking, is there a very broadly left wing or radical Guandique in the Anti Gun?

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And I'm casting doubt on the more natural reading, which asserts that there's a wing or radical Gandhi, despite being too modern, comes.

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One dialectic by which one might pursue this question of just posed about the radical possibilities in

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Gandhi's anti-Americanism is to find continuities between Gandhi's opposition to features of European or what

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you sometimes called Western modernity and the opposition in the early modern period by radicals in Europe

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as to what they presciently foresaw as the alarming direction in which the incipient modernity was heading.

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Their alarms about that direction turned out to be entirely justified,

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given the passage in Europe from its early to its late modernity that history has recorded.

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The worst is the time that these alarms for the dissenting voices of the radical opposition in the 17th century, that out started history.

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And if given the enhanced forum, which was in some sense, expressing a counterpart alarm almost three centuries later.

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An alarm about an incipient modernity in India, heading in the direction that those early dissenters have foreseen.

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A direction being imposed on it by its colonial masters,

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then a plausible way to press on with this dialectic to read Faraj is being written under the shrewd perception, but it's also.

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But in 1999, when he ruled India was at just the crossroads that Europe was in in early modernity.

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What I'm proposing, therefore,

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is a geological grounding of his radicalism in the radicalism of an earlier period in the land of his colonial masters so as to set up a very specific

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historical dialectic within which to argue that what seems anti modern in the south would not seem so if he kept this dialectic firmly in our sights.

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In general, that elements with affinities to the radical dissenting ideas burst in the early modern period should appear to answers and to market.

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Is due to a confluence of two closely related factors.

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First, our tendency to assume that the path from early to the late modernity around that time is a technological inevitability.

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And consequently,

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from the perspective of our leaders to stamp out the significance and the substantial presence of the dissenting voices in the earlier period,

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which do not start in the arena of social and political conflicts, those challenge and intellectual competence of this church.

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These two factors conspire to make it seem as if any assertion of some of the radical ideas

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to be found in the early modern dissenting traditions in Europe at a date as late as,

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for instance, 1989, when the Europeans for not necessarily occupiers, but stubbornly reactionary position.

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Something they would not do seem to do if he viewed the trilogy as on compulsory has gone, they certainly did.

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And if you get fully in our view of the past, the poor and pregnant possibilities that those dissenting ideas persist despite having been aborted.

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If it were possible to use the expression of any modern as an entirely innocuous description of a period of time in Europe,

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with no built-in implications of describing only those that antecedents that would unfold into the developments of late modernity.

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The radicalism of that period might give us the possibilities that can these two hold out for in the India of the early 20th century?

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Which, as I said, he took to be at the sort of cusp that Europe was at in the early modern period.

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So to repeat the crucial dialect. Good point. Sorry, but the risk of causing tedium that we should see the stones as a. model.

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Rather than the radical ideas, they were with a serious potential for pre-empting in India in the early part of the 20th century,

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the Boston political economy and political governments that had developed over the modern period in Europe is

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only because the direction uncertainties of an assumed to reality have the effect of writing out of history.

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The great significance of dissenting voices had at that earlier turn,

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leaving the impression only of those antecedents that make our own conditions seem inevitable for our own time.

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How to correct this tendency in us by elaborating this dialectical reversal of which is the chief preoccupation of the first half of this lecture.

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Infrastructure pursued this line of thought by working with a very specific

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Christian with an intellectual history through the lens of Gandhi's democracy,

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the question whether what political philosophers and political economists widely consider

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a rational development in the history of politics and political economy is indeed rushed.

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I will not repeat all the details of that for sure,

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but I'll have to give just a very schematic summary of the document in order to turn to the points.

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I do want to raise. In the broad contours of my argument,

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I started with a larger sense striking response to the widespread protests against recent forms of what mark so-called primitive accumulation.

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I.e., the disposition of peasantry from their land for corporate projects in India.

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Singular and so on. You remember those events, and there was a lot of protests soon responded by saying, but India, in order to come into modernity,

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would unfortunately simply have to go through the pain that England went through in order to create its London's image.

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This is in stark contrast to a which precisely argued that it was a form of cognitive slavery to think that one must conceive

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of India's modernity as built along the destructive path taken by the growth economies that created London and Manchester.

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So I proved what underlies Sen's assumption that countries like India must go through what the erstwhile colonised state and assumption,

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which is very widespread. He was only articulating the tested conventional assumption.

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And I argued further that incentives. It was not based on some sort of commitment to iron laws of history that are sometimes attributed to Marx.

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Since then is writing within the liberal tradition of thought he appeared not to notions of necessity as such and laws proposed,

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but rather to a notion of rationality. In other words, it is not a historical inevitability that India must go through what England went through,

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but rather because what England went through was rushed through its erstwhile colonies ought to do so.

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That is a quite different position.

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So I should point out that in a familiar tradition, owing primarily to figure necessity and rationality cannot be kept entirely separate either.

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That's because for Hegel. History sort of shrunk Greece, Watson doesn't belong to that tradition.

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The obvious and celebrated initial location of that liberal claim to rationality of what England

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went through was the argument in John Locke's chapter on property in the second treatise and.

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If you situate the chapter and Knox General Construction constructionism,

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we can unearth a standard form of argument for the sort of rational development that centres assuming in the remark from him that I've just quoted.

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It is essentially an argument from operator improvement over the state of nature,

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whereby the privatisation of the Commons that came with the inclusion of this hitherto carried out by brute force was literally rationalised.

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That is rendered rational by the thought experiment of a social contract in which

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all commoners were set to be better off than they were in the state of nature.

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If some of them privatised the land and the rest were hired by them as wage labour to a company that.

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As is well known, some years before last treatments, there was widespread protest against the incursions by popular religious.

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A range of Puritan Christian six, resisting the high Anglican orthodoxy,

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which had aligned itself with domestic policies that were keen to transform agrarian living into what we now call activists,

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these radical groups the diggers, the radical liberators, not all the liberals,

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the radical elements and a variety of others memorably studied by Christopher Hill and other historians

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of that period were appealing to ideas of communal and collective cultivation of the Commons.

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So in my extended argument, I had anachronistic ventriloquist onto their lips.

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In response to look, I see anachronistic play not only because, as I said,

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they predicted not, but because I used a vocabulary that is always like this.

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So we could. Attribute two to these dissenters, the following argument.

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It's an argument from economy from what economists call opportunity cost.

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The radical Goodison just could be attributed to Forge. Yes, lock would be right to say that the communists,

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who were hired to work for wages in the social contract were indeed better off than they were in the state of nature.

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But they're not better off than they would have been. And the company's not been privatised in the first place.

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And if there'd been a collective contribution of the Sense instead. An opportunity cost is an avoided benefit when you make a certain decision.

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So these dissenters could be viewed as saying that the decision to privatise the Commons in accordance with Locke's argument

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avoided the possibility of even greater benefits that could be gained from a collective contribution of the Commons.

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I then argue that the matter cannot rest because a great deal of the driving conceptual and ideological thrust of liberal political economy of

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the Enlightenment over the next few centuries may be seen as a sustained replied to this counterargument that I attributed to the descendants.

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The counterargument assumes the coaches of the idea of a collective cultivation of the Commons,

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and it is precisely this urgency that became the target of attack by fundamental outlook of modern political economy,

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which in the mid-20th century was summed up in a celebrated paper entitled The Tragedy of the Commons.

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It is a not a primary expressing a certain view of the nature of human rationality.

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It is this ideal of rationality and the mentality or outlook that it expressed that gun they was constantly opposing from different angles,

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taking on all its effects on modernity.

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The particular paper I mentioned, I got out of trouble elaborates the outlook in game theoretic terms in the form of a person prisoner's dilemma.

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It's basically a formalisation of a widespread object, which instrument is basically taking for granted.

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I want you to repeat the game theoretic argument, so-called dominance argument, which I want to foresee and one aspect to which.

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It is its main direction, which ran counter deeply onto the ground, these stick.

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And this wants to argue.

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But no individual homeowner could rationally commit to the cooperation that is entailed by a collective cultivation with coach.

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Rationality requires each commoner to think that, though it is certainly true that of all communist corporations, everybody would get.

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There's the constant anxiety. Wonderfully cooperated and others did not.

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If one is thinking rationally, this anxiety has no answer to soothe.

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Such is the situation of a multi-person prison student there.

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So each commoner, if he's rational, refuses cooperation, which in turn would, of course, entail the destruction of the Commons,

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that is the tragedy of the Commons and therefore better bets than its collective contribution is the privatisation of the Commons.

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That is an abbreviated version. Of the game theoretic updating.

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Gandhi's entire construction of Ashram muds repeatedly expressed exactly the opposite view of rationality, Gandhi explicitly said.

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Nobody in my ashram says, What if I did my bit of work every day and the others did?

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This is nobody has that insight in my ashram. And in it, Gundy was providing a whole basis for saying.

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The crimes about the requisite cooperation expressed in the anxiety,

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what if I co-operated another student that is so central to the epistemological outlook of the political

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economy is itself a deep going manifestation of the alienation that characterises modern society.

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In an uneducated society, no commoner would be gripped by that anxiety.

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And intonation of the sort, the claim does not exist where there's an unselfconscious and unspoilt sense of belonging,

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which pre-modern societies have.

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As he explicitly said, even slaves and serfs, however badly the oppressed and others did not suffer from a lack of sense of belonging.

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The finishing of this alienation that Gandhi, along with Rousseau Hegel marks,

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not to mention Heidegger Horkheimer and attribute it to modernity was absolutely central to these antique models.

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In this, he was Marx's intellectual, though, unlike Marx,

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who came to US ideas from a remarkable lifelong study of the sources of alienation in

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modern industrial capitalist societies and sought to transcend into solidarity labour.

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Gandhi, who lived in struggle in a quite different historical and social context,

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sought the sources of an unchallenged life in the same social and cultural field as his early modern

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precedents that I'd mentioned earlier the folk and spiritual traditions of popular religion.

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It is simply not possible to come to grips with the remarkable effectiveness of Gandhi's methods of mobilisation,

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deploying the idea is that you did without understanding how much he was stopping the social outlets of popular religion in India.

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The idea that he could abandon this fundamental source of his effectiveness for a more modern ground for anti-imperialism,

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such as the loyalists, to the constitutional demands for Indian self-governance.

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As many of his other colleagues aspire to, or the terror based tactics of the insurgent,

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anti-imperialist or for the more purely caste based formulations that sought to mobilise the

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masses is to simply miss the point of what was unique about Gandhi's strength and conviction.

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In fact, there's every reason to think that the mobilisation of the 1930s that often targeted not the British,

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but were more purely class struggles by tenants and sharecroppers against the Overlords cluster Goosen,

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which Gandhi in the Congress often didn't have control. This would not have emerged without the dynamism of the movement,

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whose reach extends its arms and quite generally without the dynamic reach of Gandhian non-cooperation over an earlier period.

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Movements which by contrast to the more purely class struggle,

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mixed anti-imperialist and present consciousness and popular religion in a way that only Gandhi's globalisation or innovations could have devised.

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Thus, neither the ideal of astronauts nor the unselfconsciously present ideas in centuries of religious pluralism.

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Was there any case for the alienated anxiety that lay behind the argument of an entire economic outlook of modernity?

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Now, so far, I've been summarising the line of sceptical criticism I presented in past book about the

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philosophical assumptions regarding rationality that underlie a multisensory mark with which again.

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But even from an empirical and historical angle, the remark seems unwarranted.

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The historical analogy that Sen makes is historically quite inexact.

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Since England in since in England, those desists dispossessed by primitive accumulation to create London and Manchester migrated

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in very large numbers to other parts of the tamperproof good has given immigration laws.

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There's no place for the dispossessed of rural Bengal or Chattisgarh or wherever to go,

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except the slums of the already cluttered cities within their own national borders.

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In other words, primitive accumulation. This is just the disposition of land from the peasantry.

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Primitive accumulation in Europe led the dispossessed to join the migrations to other parts of the world,

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feeding into the diffusion of capitalism via settler colonialism.

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Whereas in India today, given the restrictions on the mobility of labour, all it has left to is the further pushing of people into destitution.

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So I want to take this historical criticism as a location from which to explore something that has significance for why gone before.

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But the developments of the modern period in Europe were besides the point for countries such as.

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It marks a start, age of capital punishment and in the completely familiar and standard accounts that derive from which.

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Primitive accumulation is seen as the cursor frequently brutal extermination of communities of a pre capitalist

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form as a result of the resolution of put it produces primarily the peasantry from the sources for the means,

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primarily land of the particular form of production, grazing or even mere foraging.

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And in this community, the more we pick up this community due to primitive primitive accumulation morphs into a proletariat,

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either in the form of metropolitan industrial labourers or Reserve Army of the unemployed in cities.

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These accounts, do they observed the coercive and brutal nature of the destruction of pick up communities?

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I nevertheless also presented. As the transformation into a neutral class formation in which the old hierarchical, oppressive features of social life,

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caste religious traditions to undermine even if they are replaced by new,

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new forms of oppressive features such as exploitation of industrial labour and in an issue of industrial.

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In the extensive commentary and granted,

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people tend to focus on as frequently articulated normative storms that the worst aspects of pre-calculus communities,

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the socially conservative primordial ties with the oppressive hierarchies and divisions.

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Because no one understands that these oppressive features ought to be addressed and corrected without

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destroying these communities by transforming them into these new class formations down the often.

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Wrote that we. This is one central aspect with what we regard as sentiment in this.

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Now, however, we assess this normative stance that we ought to address this primordial divisions and cost challenges,

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et cetera, without destroying these communities free capitalist communities.

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However, we insist that normative stance.

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What I want to focus on instead is not the stance, but something more purely descriptive rather than normative.

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Which underlies and puts into doubt the universal applicability of Marx's account of primitive accumulation.

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What motivated Gandhi's normative students?

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Whatever we think of the stance itself is as brilliant and strange that the conditions of large agrarian societies of the colonised

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regions of the songs are not exactly the ground on which or to which the standard accounts of primitive accumulation apply.

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To excuse us in sorry. Let me ask a counterfactual question about European populations.

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Imagine the following scenario that has come to a defence.

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There is no massive migration of those dispossessed of their land by primitive accumulation and no settler

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colonialism that moves vast numbers of the European peasant population to various parts of the world,

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such as across the entire Atlantic, to the Americas or to the antipodes or to the southernmost corners of.

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In this counterfactual scenario, millions of peasants who in fact migrated instead remain sedentary.

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In your. What reason is there to say that they would be absorbed into a new community of industrially?

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What reason is there to think that they would be accommodated inside the domain of capitalist production?

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There is every reason to think that they would remain outside of capitalism as a vast residual pre capitalist community.

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How then would contemporary capitalism have characterised the police?

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What guns were there for thinking that the standard accounts of primitive

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accumulation were too much as applied to whatever categorisation one would give?

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And so the crucial question arises, would they have overcome the oppressive, hierarchical and divisive features into primordial times?

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The tribal divisions, the deep blue ribbon religious chasms that were typical of European society of the time.

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I mean, just consider the fact that whole wars fought for years on end over obscure religious issues such as transubstantiation.

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So really, I'm arguing the Gandhi took his normative stance,

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whether or not we agree with it because of a canny understanding that in colonial and first colonial to the

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colonised lands with a factual version of something that was merely the counterfactual scenario in Europe,

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as I just presented a little while ago. To put it differently, primitive accumulation,

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as it is presented in the canonical Manchester council depends on trimming, not in the truth of an apron.

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Nor really even a theoretical analysis, but on the observation of an entirely contingent empirical feature in European history,

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the fact of massive departure prison populations to other parts of the world.

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There could be no such thing as the primitive accumulation of the classical accounts offer,

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at least not a plausible one if this wholly contingent empirical feature were not all suppressed as this.

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As a result, there's no reason to think that Marx's accounting capital is a bit of theory at all.

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The theory implies that the generalisability of its main claim or a claim to some tenants or some structural explanatory part of diverse phenomena.

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But if I'm right. That account has no such properties.

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It is a local observation about European history over a given span of time.

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If you wanted a specific and substantive example of the rhetoric of provincial ization of Europe,

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Marx's account of primitive accumulation, as I'm now presenting you seems to be doing just that.

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So even if primitive accumulation that is taking over of land from mining factories for the

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creation of townships and eventually cities for the building of highways and dams and bridges,

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et cetera, as well as the creation of a new sort of consumer for the new sort of products that these changes furnish.

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Is the ground on which the grave new growth economies, as they're called, emerge?

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And what I'm suggesting is that Gandhi understood that in the colonised lands,

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given quite different empirical features, none of this can absorb the displaced millions as India's true labour.

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In fact, it's not even clear that they would be transformed into a reserve of.

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In terms of the economic outlook and trajectory, there's no kidding.

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But of the modern trajectory, there's no kidding what happens to these people whom we thought comprise the heart of.

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From his point of view,

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there's no reason to believe that colonialism had or would create any scope for the industrial transformation of societies like India.

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Given the differential of the European chase and its colonies that are important to be on the understood that colonialism in

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relation to its colonised nations were never motivated to know if it would have the effect of making such a transformation.

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The extractive nature of colonialism that has various campaigns and is not appropriate cooperation

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movement implicitly or person was precisely intended to be through such a transformation of these lands.

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This is why he did not grant the primitive accumulation would lead to the emergence of a relatively liberated, even if different,

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be subjugated industrial labour in India and instead even industrial labourers would

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continue to be caught up in the hierarchical features of free capitalist community,

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something we see everywhere in urban India today. And the politics of identity.

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That surface is not just to Israel, but to metropolitan India has been.

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Sociologists are constantly observed the communal riots occur predominantly in cities.

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A symptom of the capitalist communities. Metropolitan survival.

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As I said,

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I'm taking no position on whether Gundy was right to take the normative stance he did on the matter of how we ought to overcome the oppressive,

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hierarchical social features of pick up the stimulus without the destruction of those communities.

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I'm only suggesting that this normative stance was expressive of an insight that

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colonialism depended upon something that was actually factual in the colonies,

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even though it may have been merely counterfactual in Europe, as I present that conjecture.

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A few moments ago. From Gundy's and to modernism reflected in his resistance to the destruction

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of precarious communities were not was not just a sentimental moral position,

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though of course it was a normative stance.

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It was a normal disturbance that was driven and contextualise perceptive empirical understanding that colonial capitalism

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had not and would not create conditions for the industrial morphing of predominantly agrarian countries that India.

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And thus an understanding that the effects of imperialism by their nature relied on the colonised were not

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possessing transformative conditions that existed in European competition and its diffusion of crude.

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OK, so now just to make things difficult for myself, I turn now to an aspect of his empty mindedness that is much less a similar bill into a

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broadly left radicalism that in fact is widely dismissed by liberal and left modernistic.

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His scepticism about modern myths. What makes his views about medicine controversy?

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The most obvious, though somewhat superficial answer and a source of constant dismay amongst his critics is that he was

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perversely ignoring the great alleviation of suffering and loss of life that modern medicine can bring.

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Gandhi's response to such criticism was often conciliatory, saying that he was not denying the fact that such a deviation.

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But only insisting on two related points. First, modern medicine often had effects that were harmful,

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and this effect tends to get buried in the triumphalist stories and statistics that statistics.

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And second, its successes were often founded and developed on the basis of practises like resection

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and other such procedures that both took and caused suffering to animal life.

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An early statement of what is pervasively now accepted by animal rights theorists in the midst.

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But in other remarks, he took the discussion to a deeper and less obvious level probing the relations between

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modern medicine and the traditional medicine methods of seeking and promoting true.

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He began this discussion by first contextualising medicine,

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saying some things were suited to certain kinds of societies, certain sorts of prevalent doctors.

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And so even if we acknowledge the gains by modern medicine, it was not always appropriate in the Indian context.

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To pursue this point, it would, in some writings, pose an initial challenge.

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Why does one find the traditional medicine survives in places like India, despite the growing availability of modern techniques?

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Why do people continue with healing practises that are traditional in the face of the impressive

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advances and the practical success of so much rests amidst the Christian we might realise today,

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many decades after he raised? And you rejected us glib and evasive and even somewhat cynical.

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The following arts tradition medicine continues to flourish in Indian modernity because otherwise its practitioners,

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divides and Hakim's and peers would have to join the vast army of the unemployed.

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The answer is, in any case, no doubt some of them do carry on because they would be out of livelihood if they did not.

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But to think that the practise does not come from and speak to a genuine belief and commitment on their

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part and on the part of the vast constituencies would be to quite mis describe the facts on the ground.

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Moreover, to the extent that a range of low-tech solutions do work for many tropical afflictions

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and to the extent that they bring meaning and comfort to large numbers of people,

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it would be dogmatic to think that this belief or commitment is wholly misplaced.

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Gandhi insisted on this.

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Now, it's not as if this last point has gone unacknowledged in recent years in the metropolitan churches where Christian medicine is practised.

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The disdain many showed to its traditional medicine for so long that's recently been quantified substantially

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with considerable acceptance of the efficacy of traditional medicine or the air raid or unani or Chinese.

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In fact, major hospitals and universities in Western countries have increasingly devoted

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time and research and funds to teams and departments that study these efficacy.

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But this concession to his new. Does not quite come to grips with a deeper point of his differences with the outlook of modernity,

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the Sudan medicine and not turn the chief different lies in the fact.

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That it is essential to the soccer. But having made the concession, the risk to not that having made this concession.

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About the relative success of tradition, which it insists on asking the following for the question.

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And on giving the following answer to it an answer that Gandhi stubbornly refuses.

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The Christians granted the traditional medicine is often efficacious, which accounts for its efficacy.

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What are the principles that explain why traditional medicine works when it works?

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And everywhere, even, I'm sure amongst most of us here today with our modern attitudes toward science,

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there's a very strong tendency on our part to answer this question roughly as follows.

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We need not to know deny much works in the traditions of your trade, your guide in Chinese medicine,

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nor denied that not as much works as well as you assume a dozen estimates.

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But still, when we ask why each of these work, when they work and explain how they work,

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we must appeal to the same underlying scientific that is chemical and physical prints.

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In other words, the principles that explain the efficacy of various forms of traditional medicine and the principles that

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explain the efficacy of modern allopathic medicine are not and cannot be inconsistent with one another.

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Gandhi would, as I said, refuse to such an interest as grounds for doing so.

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That brings out how radical and deep going his critique of modernity is as it surfaces in its attitudes towards science.

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And it brings out, therefore why this is not just a surface dispute about the relative merits of traditional versus modern medicine.

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To repeat the intellectual demand of modernity that you are considering,

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is this the theoretical explanation of the instrumental successes of traditional forms of medicine

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must in the end be compatible with the theoretical explanations of the instrumental success of my in?

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An implication of this demand is that if we take a certain widely held conception

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of maturity as a conjunction of inferentially related theoretical symptoms,

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then the theoretical sentences which account for one risk committee and the theoretical sentences which

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account for about these other traditions of medicine work can be conjoined together in a single,

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consistent theory. There's no tension.

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The clues, the conjoined theory apart in different directions. But Gundy's whole understanding of the context in which traditional medicine

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and India's practise suggests to him that no such conjoining was possible.

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Indeed, he suggests that there was something incommensurate between the traditional and modern medicine that made such a conjunction impressed.

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What did you think was the source of this income and strictness? The thought of the possibility of conjoining in a unified form?

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The underlying next generation of these different efficacies? His answer was quite simple.

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The very idea of efficacy was different, in fact radically incomparable or incommensurate in the two forms admits.

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That is to say, there was a conceptual divergence between what counted as skill in other parts of medicine and what counted as short traditions.

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How then could one expect the extradition of the successor to be a of the same if the extra number of data to be exchanged were radically different,

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indeed incommensurate? To put it very facetiously,

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it would be like saying that we're going to give the same underlying explanation for why mountains are big and why books are interested.

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If there's an increment in the two things to be explained, it would be absurd to demand that it be a common underlying explanation for boots.

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So now the question arises What did he mean when he said that the very idea of efficacy was different in the two forms of admits?

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His answer was because they work with different conceptions of the body.

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The relevance of this latter difference regarding the body to the differential in what counts as medical efficacy needs careful elaboration.

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To do so, let me begin by citing a passage from Amartya Sen and Martha Nussbaum in an essay about health issues in countries like India,

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which it is much more cautious than what Romney has to say is a good start towards getting the more radical position Romney takes.

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Here's what's in and respond, right? They say we need an inside understanding of the people who are to be treated

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in thinking about what is health and the procedures for bringing it to match.

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Heavenly mathematics is one thing, but medicine seems paradigmatic of something that is immersed,

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engaged, working in a pragmatic partnership with those whom it treats.

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It must take very seriously their pains and pleasures,

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their own mental sense of it over their health and flourishing that it involves the patient's own sense of better and worse to ignore.

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This is not just to be careless. The important point is that it cannot be right.

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That's a quote from Senator Spar. It was pushed further this interesting passage take it towards a more ambitious claim than anything

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senator themselves say in it something much closer to Gandhi's understanding of the issues at stake.

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Can large point was that in many indigenous traditions, especially Indians?

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The notion of health and well-being turns into conception of the body, which is not purely and brutally material.

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Bodies and more generally,

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match are shot through with what be contemporary philosophers with our secular habits of thought and secular vocabulary called meaning and value.

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During a more religious and pantheistic and animist traditions,

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the terms employed would be somewhat different and the rhetoric would be different

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since these traditions took the source of value and meaning to be sacred.

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Gandhi, given his maverick religiosity, invoking strains of the Buddhism, of journalism, of his own background of we to mention tourism,

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even a popular Christianity, Gandhi indulge in a wide range of the rhetoric of sexualization when describing the human body.

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But Richard, your rhetoric we implore secular or religious. The upshot is that for Gounty, the target of terror is not something brutally couple.

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It is not simply the destruction of bacteria or the restoration of physical function.

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Rather, to put it in barbarian terms, if one sees the body itself as enchanted with meaning and emotion.

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And then. Then if there is to be cured of the body, it will be a highly integrated restriction,

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not just a physical function, but the restoration of an equilibrium of meanings and emotions and values.

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It's better. Sue, when herbal medicines are used in the context of traditional medical practise in India,

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they're not just targeting conditions, the body conceived in material terms.

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They're targeting something much rich. The plant can be conveyed with an analogy.

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One might think of the body that these herbal medicines are seeking to target, but analogy with how we think of a taboo on a stage during a.

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To press the analogy, you might say that just as the physical table is a stage prop or a bit of stage design in the performance of a play,

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the physical body is the state side in a performance ritual of.

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To see the body is merely a computer and to see the efficacy of a cure as a mere restoration of corporeal functioning would be like seeing

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the table on the stage in a plane as merely and brutally physical as a configuration of swarming molecules say rather than it's a sight of.

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Family conviviality, as it might be or the site of tense international negotiations.

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This is not, of course, how soon Nussbaum would teach some adding a certain Gandhian understanding of the metaphysics of the body to what they see.

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This is a more grounded description. No, the modern philosophical institute, which I assume most of us here possess.

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It's going to be quite predictable when confronted with this footage. It's going to respond by proposing a clean bifurcation.

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It's going to say, even if the restoration of the equilibrium of emotions and meanings essential to our conception of Joe,

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why can't we see things as follows? When herbal medicines are used, what is going on is that they cure all the body,

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the body's seen as fruit and disenchanted, that's modern science, and we then expect that many bodily chew.

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To intern do its subsequent closing pitch in restoring the patient's equilibrium with meanings and emotions.

392
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:37,600
And red does not entirely do so, we may turn to non-physical therapies as well, such as what happens in the West, say, in Sacramento.

393
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:47,120
But such a bifurcating response is tone deaf to the fundamental point that is being registered in the ground in which.

394
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:54,420
So, Gandhi, things are much more integrated, the body itself is suffused with meaning, value and emotion.

395
00:49:54,420 --> 00:49:59,990
It's just not really closely connected with these larger states of mind and being.

396
00:49:59,990 --> 00:50:08,220
The body and the states of mind are not idealistically and separately conceived, requiring to be connected because that.

397
00:50:08,220 --> 00:50:17,910
As a result on his picture, we cannot bifurcates the process into two one part herbal medicine, see a neem plant.

398
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:30,390
Oh, some antibiotic pills targeting the beauty material body and restoring its bodily functions, which are ones that purely material cure is achieved,

399
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:40,790
then causes a subsequent and separate restoration of the wider equilibrium of states of emotion and peace of mind.

400
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:44,810
New can be in the cases when the causality does not work out.

401
00:50:44,810 --> 00:50:49,770
Resort to saying that we can view the purely bodily cure.

402
00:50:49,770 --> 00:50:58,770
Brought about by the name capital antibiotic as one part of the cure and then supplement it with a further second kind of cure.

403
00:50:58,770 --> 00:51:05,820
The performative ritual, which in the West is a token performative ritual of psychoanalysis.

404
00:51:05,820 --> 00:51:13,010
Which then? Restores the emotions and means it from the guardian metaphor to there's much greater

405
00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:17,810
integration of the body and states of mind in the way that the body itself was conceived.

406
00:51:17,810 --> 00:51:24,230
That cannot be to merely causally linked targets that you're seeking in these processes.

407
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:31,990
There's just one integrated target and one crucial. The medicine itself must be approached,

408
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:36,970
must be administered and taken with the right attitudes and understanding if the

409
00:51:36,970 --> 00:51:42,950
medicine is to be efficacious in the integrated way they're just being sold.

410
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:51,110
Does to present the body analogy with the idea of stage design is to see it in terms that make it impossible to assert that,

411
00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:57,830
but by focussing on the process, what sense would it make to see?

412
00:51:57,830 --> 00:52:05,180
But the swimming molecules on the stage that configure the table that we see are closing.

413
00:52:05,180 --> 00:52:10,880
The other thing we see the sight of family conviviality or tense negotiations.

414
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:17,130
What sense does it make to say that it is nonsense to say that?

415
00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:25,290
The two sets of concepts are major molecular structure, tense negotiation are simply too disparate,

416
00:52:25,290 --> 00:52:34,480
two mismatched incommensurate with each other for us to make any sense of the claim that one is causing the.

417
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:43,390
Once you grasp this, we can grasp why Gandhi cannot accept the modern history that even if traditional medicine is a trick to its effectiveness,

418
00:52:43,390 --> 00:52:51,050
must be explained by the same principles of physical chemistry that explain the effectiveness of calligraphic which.

419
00:52:51,050 --> 00:52:58,640
What this discussion makes clear, though, is that for new effectiveness efficacy.

420
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:04,010
And thus health itself a radically different and in commensurately conceived by the

421
00:53:04,010 --> 00:53:09,980
true British two traditions because they work with different conceptions of the road,

422
00:53:09,980 --> 00:53:17,960
how could they then be explained by these same underlying principles? And if they cannot get a common underlying explanation,

423
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:24,680
then the Western scientists concession to the success of traditional medicine is not properly conceived.

424
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:30,110
Traditional medicine is not just seeking the kind of thing with counts success in modern rich.

425
00:53:30,110 --> 00:53:37,790
So when the conception is made, which is made to something other than what is intended and sort of traditional.

426
00:53:37,790 --> 00:53:44,690
Back on these nights, it is only by failing to comprehend and by distorting is what is meant by success in traditional medicine,

427
00:53:44,690 --> 00:53:47,480
that the madness can even formulate the demand,

428
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:56,450
that there be an underlying common explanation for the medical successes in the two traditions with a full and undistorted comprehension of it,

429
00:53:56,450 --> 00:54:04,650
of the sort that I've tried to sketch, the demand for him is not so much as intelligent.

430
00:54:04,650 --> 00:54:13,900
I'll leave it to the audience to ponder to what extent this few of the body and of medicine amounts to a conceptual religious.

431
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:24,440
Rhythms and modernism comes from an underlying outlook, competitiveness and remains a vexed interpretative question in the study of countries sort.

432
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,539
Thanks very much.