1 00:00:00,330 --> 00:00:04,260 Thank you for having me back. It's nice to be here in person to give this. 2 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:12,540 So I guess I'm going to let you touch in some places that inspired you to page the book. 3 00:00:12,540 --> 00:00:16,480 It's based on the slide. It's not made of a slide. 4 00:00:16,590 --> 00:00:25,440 Annotations that haven't been published. I'm not going to run into sort of the full breadth of the arguments in the book, 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:30,580 because what I wanted to focus on was that element, the aspects of narrative sort, the kind of association. 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,139 So we'll be looking quite a lot as well. 7 00:00:34,140 --> 00:00:37,980 But is not just catalyst in India, is experiences, media, 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,850 the phrases that hold the reading I wanted to look at and how does that actually 9 00:00:41,850 --> 00:00:48,590 get picked up to 37 states to suggest that you get closer to the U.S. as well. 10 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,790 But the book itself does deal with how it was employed in Asia as well. 11 00:00:53,550 --> 00:01:00,640 Well, I thought it was confusing, quite original. Was this South Asia thing actually to make universal from the perspective the 12 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:06,850 global state is kind of this old school translation of the silver lining. 13 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:10,740 So this idea that, you know, in parts of Asia, they've missed out. 14 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:19,570 This is a swing in a specific to South Asia which is also about these statistics are read those in the early 2000 so that works. 15 00:01:20,430 --> 00:01:25,979 So for those of you who don't necessarily go there, which is background, that was that to you, 16 00:01:25,980 --> 00:01:32,780 kind of a very quick whistle stop tour of the chronology and why this kind of biography, 17 00:01:32,870 --> 00:01:39,750 what was quite important to be speaking so proud of you being born in 1835 to those in 1917, 18 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:46,409 Korea goes through just very interesting factory where he is very fortunate enough to go to these great funded schools, 19 00:01:46,410 --> 00:01:50,360 the kind of South Asian side kind of place. 20 00:01:50,670 --> 00:01:59,590 So that kind of stuff ends up at Elphinstone College in Mumbai, ends up then actually becoming one of the best in the business. 21 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:10,290 Something else is in college, so eventually he gets involved in Parsi social reforms that the Zoroastrian community in Bombay is kind 22 00:02:10,290 --> 00:02:18,210 of going through such a terrible time to talk about mostly aesthetic things like education for women, 23 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,629 ideals is kind of getting just generally passes it. So it's a mixed education. 24 00:02:24,630 --> 00:02:34,150 So being actually designed in English and that kind of thing, interested in reforming local municipal councils, 25 00:02:34,380 --> 00:02:41,070 that sort of thing that's connected to the civic aspect of how they discuss policies. 26 00:02:41,070 --> 00:02:46,860 But it sounds like classmates very you see them sort of pivot to to business. 27 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:58,110 He is a business, but he also knows he's working with Parsi colleagues to set up a branch of the company based in Bombay in the UK, 28 00:02:58,920 --> 00:02:59,970 eventually just as business. 29 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:09,170 So we'll see how he ends up becoming bankrupt and then shifting its focus more exclusively this economy rather than social reform. 30 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:14,340 So you can see it as a sort of liberal brand working with consumers in ways we might consider typical. 31 00:03:14,970 --> 00:03:18,330 But he's trying to find what he thinks the ultimate way should be. 32 00:03:19,230 --> 00:03:23,440 So social reform is that sort of classic liberal institutions of education. 33 00:03:23,460 --> 00:03:31,470 Education is sort of like gentrify people, create change with estates, contracts, that kind of thing eventually gets dissolution. 34 00:03:31,470 --> 00:03:33,510 But this changes with the economy. 35 00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:40,440 Eventually you get disillusioned with the way you, the country, some of the British Empire because of this bankruptcy and financial crises and so on. 36 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:49,380 Then it becomes a much, much more politically engaged sort of not only kind of just reform, but taking on the premiership of the prince, 37 00:03:49,780 --> 00:03:58,500 but where he starts to look, it's not enough to just run a kind of business in a sort of laissez faire economy situation. 38 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:04,050 Clearly, there is state involvement in some way in setting up businesses, rather. 39 00:04:04,530 --> 00:04:13,130 And we'll see how this this kind of effects his idea of the type of social contract that exists between entities, how it affects issues of that. 40 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:19,680 But I think most interesting so maybe how about you said last month in the UK and so this is what he was 41 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:26,220 trying to do by saying we all know about cycle theory and what he decided to imply was sucking wealth out, 42 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:35,520 maybe rusticated self-hate, except preventing it from becoming a kind of modern liberal democracy. 43 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:43,950 But actually I think really thinking about RTC Scotland is to say, look, empire doesn't just rust to face South Asia in the face as well. 44 00:04:43,950 --> 00:04:48,350 And it's only through our experience that you can understand why, one, 45 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:55,120 why it was across all these due to the same sort of predicament as opposed to that extent. 46 00:04:55,230 --> 00:04:59,100 And I think it's really the only thing to us from within the liberal frame of. 47 00:04:59,230 --> 00:05:02,020 It's doing this at the time and it's very, very radical. 48 00:05:02,050 --> 00:05:16,840 So if you compare other anti-imperial factors closely at the time, it helps us keep going back to the early 20th century that is very attainable. 49 00:05:17,140 --> 00:05:22,720 And so he really doesn't have much space of this sort of power of speaking the South. 50 00:05:22,750 --> 00:05:30,620 I mean, he sees it as a cultural place under consumption in the U.K. that's affecting across living conditions and so on. 51 00:05:30,670 --> 00:05:34,720 It's it's potentially reducing the responsibility of the states. 52 00:05:35,050 --> 00:05:36,850 He wants to reign in empires. 53 00:05:36,850 --> 00:05:45,009 He sees it as a place where chocolate profits will not pay attention to the white working classes in their own communities. 54 00:05:45,010 --> 00:05:50,110 He has nothing to say about the normative education of blackness. 55 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:55,350 So now what is really the first liberal crisis and the serious mistake? 56 00:05:55,370 --> 00:06:00,190 It's a single political spectacles of South Asia. 57 00:06:01,570 --> 00:06:08,260 So you can see this kind of, you know, a kind of progressive involvement in more than politics and political reform. 58 00:06:08,670 --> 00:06:17,050 You see things again. But if anybody is getting involved in enfranchised women in the U.K. and that kind of stuff, again, 59 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:25,340 these are left out of official accounts in the sense that this is a sort of a sideshow to his main concern, which is a great wealth for media. 60 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:32,649 But what this book is trying to do is say, well, look, why is he engaging in radical British politics aside time? 61 00:06:32,650 --> 00:06:40,690 Why is he not just in the south of the country repeatedly lobbying issues of Indian interests? 62 00:06:40,690 --> 00:06:44,600 So why kind of universal suffrage? 63 00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:51,220 Why go to the quarters to say stuff that wasn't really ingratiating itself to mainstream media? 64 00:06:51,490 --> 00:06:52,980 So you can't really say it's a stretch. 65 00:06:53,530 --> 00:07:00,430 It's not an attempt to analyse its policies that sought to change Britain by as much as one exchange traded yet. 66 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:02,530 So you can see, 67 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:12,030 but I think excerpts that have many details that in great detail appear to be right on the cusp of being elected to the House of Commons. 68 00:07:12,070 --> 00:07:18,460 As to which is about British Labour, it's got nothing to do with the unions, it's also about the courts. 69 00:07:18,730 --> 00:07:24,280 He's talking about forms of arbitration between labour force, wage cuts, no rules, 70 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:33,160 no alternative state talk, but coming to a fair kind of tough decision between two means of production. 71 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:39,370 How does that feature in his dismissal? And why is why is it that it's injured experiences allowance? 72 00:07:41,050 --> 00:07:45,370 It's not necessarily just suffered in Question Time. 73 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,520 And we know that most people obviously focusing on crucial in India. 74 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,180 That book really is a compendium of documents. 75 00:07:54,190 --> 00:08:01,410 It's not sort of traditional political treatises, a compendium of letters, speeches that he's really done over the previous 40 years. 76 00:08:01,420 --> 00:08:07,370 So the object of the book was to say, well, look, if this sort this ideology begins in 1860, 77 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,799 why does it matter what the ultimate made for in that India? 78 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:19,420 And why does it always look like what maybe is the source universes of these these claims? 79 00:08:19,490 --> 00:08:24,760 So that applies to, in my view, a kind of a global critique of multiculturalism. 80 00:08:25,090 --> 00:08:33,489 I'm just saying. Right. So I'll do a quick overview of the ways he's been looked at. 81 00:08:33,490 --> 00:08:37,950 And this is one of the reasons I want is to be on set because I remember you saying it's not correct, 82 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:47,439 that obviously the British rule in the South Asia crisis was kind of stored as the primary source of page selection. 83 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,719 And so the regulation at the time that actually that was in the list of some resources that historians, 84 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,270 very many books actually commented on what we should be looking at, 85 00:08:56,530 --> 00:09:03,319 what narratives it calls lost beyond the kind of traditional nationalist framework that should be something that Congress is meeting 86 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:13,030 recite is the first person to say that in a systematic way that could be sucked up severe to deserve the Imperial Metropole, 87 00:09:13,030 --> 00:09:18,200 but that's as far as you got. So he was a of books and he did find a whole general. 88 00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:27,550 Okay. So I thought it's quite strange that, you know, you saw this is kind of a TV without that commentary. 89 00:09:27,550 --> 00:09:33,790 On the other side I found with him is insofar as there were books often written by South Asian scholars, 90 00:09:34,810 --> 00:09:38,800 they were kind of celebratory biographies so that they weren't really getting to the Marxist 91 00:09:38,810 --> 00:09:45,120 thought to say it's just a case of a member of the Nationalist Party you should know about thing. 92 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:53,670 And of course they wanted to celebrate that. He was the first Indian member of the House of Commons in 1890 to see a newspaper 93 00:09:53,710 --> 00:09:58,270 citation in the context and that has been a lot of the economist around. 94 00:09:58,450 --> 00:10:05,050 So. Well, but also a fantastic to this place to look for him. 95 00:10:05,530 --> 00:10:09,660 But to me, it's just fun to see this role. 96 00:10:10,630 --> 00:10:19,090 And again, you know, newspaper articles like this, it's very much how Claudius was a source of great pride. 97 00:10:19,540 --> 00:10:24,870 So what you see is that they're all from the country. 98 00:10:24,910 --> 00:10:29,320 And so and so the polarisation has been is kind of multicultural. 99 00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:42,300 Nice story that we've been talking about this all the time and there's a number of other figures like those sales 100 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:51,639 figures to kind of sit alongside narratives of people who try to work the systems as well to try to get elected. 101 00:10:51,640 --> 00:11:00,910 Parliament position on the hospital is the new imperial history sort of sort of, you know, wants to look at how they navigated this kind of racism. 102 00:11:01,510 --> 00:11:08,800 Clever about the device. So all this very strategic it's all very instrumental accounts not really getting into you know, 103 00:11:08,950 --> 00:11:13,930 if they take, you know, with ideas, how did that start to face you? 104 00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:17,740 Just kind of regurgitating whatever will get them elected. 105 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:25,120 Some of the other thing that that stop does is really instrumentalize these indicators of self. 106 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,109 So it's about how they're pretty to pieces for their own purposes. 107 00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:34,730 And so which is, you know, anything in so far as it goes, but it doesn't really get to the heart of it. 108 00:11:35,260 --> 00:11:43,479 These guys South are actually trying to get to, let's call it that, what is due to the core of that that, you know, we started this out quite well. 109 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:49,180 So in the out of the coalition government because there were people selected as liberal, of course, 110 00:11:49,180 --> 00:11:57,290 made quite cause by the radicals, which was to kind of to help get people to come here and study. 111 00:11:57,300 --> 00:12:03,390 It was very much in that mould civil society to be successful. 112 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:16,600 So it must be said that don't get appleinsider. That's I think everyone's got to step out of that sort of version of the British establishment and 113 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:21,100 probably just understand what it means to go into the site in collaboration with the government. 114 00:12:21,130 --> 00:12:29,230 I suspect just before you can't say who was elected that they're probably not especially interested in my classes. 115 00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:39,969 So that's a big thing. So I wanted to give a very different account to this, but you're not sort of just trying to pull comments from what was posted. 116 00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:46,660 There is an analogy. I mean, he does does deal with statistics, but but perhaps it was I think some in the archival material, 117 00:12:47,620 --> 00:12:52,209 it's kind of like chucking around this word a nationalist. 118 00:12:52,210 --> 00:12:57,950 I don't think it makes a great deal of sense with him at such a pace in the books. 119 00:12:57,970 --> 00:13:05,010 Said it from the outset. Let's just take it in this kind of dyad between colonised, 120 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:12,189 colonised the very forms that takes because I don't think it is for all great sort of cultural sovereignty and fiscal sovereignty that 121 00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:21,850 you could really be called an explicit the so because we've just accepted that form of internationalism I think results in around 5:00. 122 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,149 Those are not orgies about the critique of Empire. 123 00:13:25,150 --> 00:13:32,410 He never really saw its dissolution. He asked for a sort of something similar to an Irish rule stuck with it because 124 00:13:32,410 --> 00:13:36,549 the theory is that he's not really a nationalist in a conventional sense. 125 00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:41,610 So these sorts of works, that sort of thing, is that that particular suit articulated. 126 00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:47,949 So I was not especially interested in replicating the most important one where I think we get typical, 127 00:13:47,950 --> 00:13:52,590 you know, this is one of the best in my time of the rise of fascism, 128 00:13:53,530 --> 00:13:56,910 this idea of analogy is lumped in with a whole set of other things, 129 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:05,890 like Tilak with all the social circles to come to their own conclusions about how, you know, Empire was was economically exploitative. 130 00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:10,240 But I didn't really do much of the kind of individual corporations, individual accounts. 131 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,640 So basically said this is kind of a natural response that any country would have to come out of this. 132 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:23,140 And it has, as a former prosecutor asked you to sunny skies educated in maybe from different regions. 133 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:33,769 They all have certain backgrounds in academia or law. So of course there was an exorcist and in the book I described it kind of policy. 134 00:14:33,770 --> 00:14:42,670 Yes, that is kind of cult style. There is a natural pushback against these forms of exploitation, this kind of sociological institution. 135 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:48,190 So maybe by individuals with their thoughts and ideas. And of course, the other thing is like the argument itself. 136 00:14:49,270 --> 00:14:54,660 So if you're if you're calling him an economic nationalist, then you already say your response to say, 137 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,780 look, whatever, he's doing such a great critique of British. 138 00:14:59,770 --> 00:15:07,210 Can't necessarily fit into that mould unless he got into a world of kind of a kind of business, which I don't actually think he is. 139 00:15:07,330 --> 00:15:15,640 So that was a that was a kind of looking departure for something that I wanted to change the way we see it. 140 00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:24,070 So at no point do I say, this is this book and you can say you have multiple versions of this story, sort of what to look for in this. 141 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,450 So these are both actually excited by side with them. 142 00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:33,910 But also, do you think he'd give me fantastic thought that, you know, does say that there is a post-colonial masochism, 143 00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:40,950 there isn't a supermodel decision, you're not just going to look in a European nation, it's sort of continuity. 144 00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:46,479 But like that particular book and it's still same as these collections seem to have a 145 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:53,110 kind of natural response to various frameworks of how British set up on these railways. 146 00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:57,070 In my entire system, they're all kind of acting against this, 147 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:04,030 almost about thinking sort of institution where they, up until very recently published, absolutely fantastic. 148 00:16:04,030 --> 00:16:09,579 I mean, the first book reads kind of get properly into kinds of Italian and that that's 149 00:16:09,580 --> 00:16:15,340 what 20,000 that there's a lot to kind of look at that most closely people were 150 00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:20,530 coming to the toilet and mostly to is printed stuff so it's a great great book 151 00:16:20,530 --> 00:16:26,460 for doing a kind of detailed biographical overview of what narratives about. 152 00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:33,090 But again, as you can see from this, if you still have that, that sort of book that I described that I could not do no video. 153 00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:36,399 Totally. So what was a solid jumping off place? 154 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,670 Well, the first interest ladies love to become an intimacy. 155 00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:48,430 So I started my Casey the year or the year before Chris published this book By the Stage. 156 00:16:49,180 --> 00:16:54,470 So he was my supervisor as well. So I was having quite these discussions with him about, you know, what he made about marriage. 157 00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:59,520 I think he made for me a lot of critical kind of interventions about marriage now at the outset. 158 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,720 Right. So a serious kind of theoretical individual, 159 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:09,180 what he was trying to do something with the weight of his life in India and had his own kind of conception. 160 00:17:09,610 --> 00:17:19,299 So one of the ones Chris mentions is is benign sociology decided to innovate lots of kind of statistical methods, 161 00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:25,510 quantitative methods, questionnaires and so on to get at the heart of what liberalism, liberal capitalism is doing. 162 00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:35,840 And then from that speculating, a kind of duplicitous theory, but obviously that is Christmas dealing with a range of things across 20 years. 163 00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:43,299 Now what he's going to be sort of a section of in attendance was a part of this was kind of doing a bit a secular 164 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:49,140 study and Chris doesn't get into the detail of the British side of things that much it's it's mostly isolated. 165 00:17:49,150 --> 00:17:52,870 So it's this basis because the book was was conservative. Yes. 166 00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:57,280 And the other one is perhaps a bit less expected. It's an homage to slave trade. 167 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:06,370 So this has been published several times, well before Chris's before before I saw some other studies on graduate studies, etc. 168 00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:12,969 But one of the I think this is more the implicit argument of this book is that a lot of 169 00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:18,000 18th century political thought in Europe was essentially dealing with this tension, 170 00:18:18,010 --> 00:18:24,460 may not resolved it, but was addressing the tensions that once he moved from the age of communism into the age of free trade, 171 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:31,870 almost counterintuitively, you go to a more potentially international tensions between countries rather than less. 172 00:18:31,870 --> 00:18:39,760 So you would think that economic independence or interdependence between countries in an age of free trade ought to create less tension. 173 00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:46,460 And that's almost conventional wisdom today. Some of the biggest trading partner going to go to war in the Middle East. 174 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,590 I suggest the sultry sixties question, which is what is content? 175 00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:58,150 There's a lot of these thinkers who Adam Smith, you themselves say, no, actually, it's that interdependence creates its own forms of inequalities. 176 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:05,560 And if you have a country that's a major manufacturer that's interdependent with a country that's really a producer of primary goods, 177 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,169 nobody groups in those countries have to rely on each other, 178 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:16,389 but they will actually proliferate throughout sides that will have political and social impacts and will potentially, 179 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:23,560 if you allocate tickets out of political parties to talk about dispensations, we'll see that as a way to see that as a whole. 180 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:29,799 So it could be about places, policies, whatever is no substitute about assistance to resolve these issues. 181 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:35,170 But they are issues that continue to play so and so the 21st century. 182 00:19:36,010 --> 00:19:40,100 So what I want us to do is position ourselves to recognise this. 183 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:43,690 I was dealing with it is these are way so all those see it. 184 00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:49,059 Yes in your part of the empire. But they borrowed their own money on their own accounts. 185 00:19:49,060 --> 00:19:57,850 There is actually economic problem between, say, billionaires and Indian billionaires or lexical owners in India to call. 186 00:19:58,710 --> 00:20:04,730 GROSS And they do because the souls of all Iranians actually, you know, see, this is what I see. 187 00:20:04,740 --> 00:20:13,020 Look, we need to come up with a new way politically of approaching global capitalism, that sort of socially social cleavages. 188 00:20:13,020 --> 00:20:23,390 In some ways, yes, they need to sort of either a collapse of the empire or even the other kind of, you know, violence on the streets of India. 189 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:34,380 We're looking at a lot of violence between is community at the local level is actually caused by a commercial sort of religious conflict. 190 00:20:35,070 --> 00:20:42,390 So those are probably the two major sort of influences as I was thinking about this from sort of physical therapy. 191 00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:48,090 So why look and how much you get kind of touched on some of the reasons that I think I mean, 192 00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:53,500 I always like discussing because I think it sort of sums up my my attitude towards this is 193 00:20:53,610 --> 00:20:58,890 what does it mean to create a politics between these two regions isn't just the politics. 194 00:20:59,310 --> 00:21:05,460 I mean, what does a truly kind of Anglo-Indian radical liberal politics look like? 195 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,640 And I think, you know what, she's the only one doing this. 196 00:21:09,850 --> 00:21:14,680 So even he's kind of liberals in India at a time, I'm not especially interested in what goes on. 197 00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:19,740 So you might think about the classes that matter in Bombay. 198 00:21:20,670 --> 00:21:26,130 Even people like Rochelle all is another great theorist of the training, you know? 199 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:33,550 He says that it's breeding, but he's exclusively interested in the kind of the level of rent extraction in Bengal. 200 00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:37,430 He just wants the latter to produce that, if that's not his fault. 201 00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:43,049 There's an interesting correspondence between him and Morarji Banerjee says, Look, this is more like it. 202 00:21:43,050 --> 00:21:51,960 I mean, I'm not against the peasants, but the drain is a much bigger thing, has much wider implications to what you're implying. 203 00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:56,819 So I think this idea of kind of destroying a kind of global political economy of 204 00:21:56,820 --> 00:22:01,709 empire and kind of coming out with the politics of it from the Global South, 205 00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:07,020 rather being Western theorists of it is the thing that he was kind of really contributing. 206 00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:12,270 And he gets labelled with this voice of India, the members of India saying when he's a member of the House of Commons, 207 00:22:12,270 --> 00:22:17,430 but there's interesting letters, he's upper class and Sue Gladstone basically says, 208 00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:25,469 I know you guys communists, but I see myself as a representative of labour as much as the peasants or, 209 00:22:25,470 --> 00:22:28,700 you know, the the ratepayer in Bombay and this kind of thing. 210 00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:38,880 So he's very actively seeking self as a kind of global politician, as much as that kind of exclusively in the trade show. 211 00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:46,610 So what really allows them to do this? And I think one of the things I wanted to say about NIMBYism is that, you know, 212 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:55,379 that's clearly a common sort of with the literature that says that liberalism is one of the kind of foundations of British imperialism it allows. 213 00:22:55,380 --> 00:23:04,020 The colonisation took place in South Asia because you hold up a set of sociological characteristics that people assume to me you encounter prejudices, 214 00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:07,110 etc. People have, as you say, sociological characteristics. 215 00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:10,380 So that's the essence of us approach. 216 00:23:10,410 --> 00:23:17,950 But I also want to say, but that's the kind of cultural sociological approach to to represent I mean, 217 00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:20,690 the appearance of what kinds of apologists you see. 218 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:27,299 What if you bring political economy back here in a big way and we understand the 19th and early 20th century as a society 219 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:35,540 which capital is not global and the Indian thinkers realised Scotland when I'm using this kind of stuff about you know, 220 00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:45,920 entering a debate about different tells this stuff about potentially radical critique so long as it's coming from a kind of South Asian point of view, 221 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:55,049 it stuff so other scholars and historians sort of novices as well, I suspect more effectively the moral kind of grassroots response to this as well. 222 00:23:55,050 --> 00:24:01,970 It's difficult to engaging with this kind of radical liberalism because they recognise that I'll be talking to. 223 00:24:04,190 --> 00:24:11,310 But it also does it from a slightly more, you know, talk with you so in a classic history. 224 00:24:11,610 --> 00:24:18,120 So he recognises that colonialism is not only tactful as a sort of become synonymous with that extent. 225 00:24:18,150 --> 00:24:24,150 So if the working classes in Britain are kind of trodden underfoot by a type of monopoly, 226 00:24:24,150 --> 00:24:28,140 capitalism is alright with companies in general might be beside himself and so on. 227 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:34,380 But there's, there's been a kind of, you know, a negative externality in the way it was played out. 228 00:24:34,590 --> 00:24:39,710 Whatever colonialism is is just the extension of this kind of consensus. 229 00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:48,319 So that ends up becoming a kind of Republican, say, to the supermodel, because basically you go through the processes, which is the pattern, 230 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:58,180 and says, well, this is what the problem with it is a form of arbitrary nomination for dress to get back to, you know, genuine opportunities. 231 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,970 When it produces itself, contract with each other on multiple equal basis. 232 00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:06,070 So yes, see that he's coming up with this critique from within the Liberals. 233 00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:17,060 But it is a radical in the sense that I think if someone was making these arguments, it's a political report as to why it's not under the system. 234 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:27,670 But it's it's an appreciation of monopoly, rent extraction, you know, excess investment in kind of fixed goods rather than that sort of profits. 235 00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:36,850 So it is leading to increasing inequality and that is needed to secession, political opportunities as well. 236 00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:39,370 And this is a failure, really, of the countries. 237 00:25:39,370 --> 00:25:49,149 Companies all know that, you know, he's he's he's looking at what's going on in his community, communities. 238 00:25:49,150 --> 00:26:00,610 It's starting to spread and eventually come to a conclusion that this is more a result of this than, say, kind of social or religious issue. 239 00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:05,920 We'll touch on that in a second. But I thought we're going, what do you think about this, 240 00:26:05,970 --> 00:26:11,830 that if we had to make the claim that this is a kind of universal form of liberalism from the south to the north, 241 00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:18,110 that it comes from possibly useful to fight off the forces that are overseas, to control their way to course. 242 00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:28,660 These are highly educated mobile, very well represented in the National Congress and so on, quite well beyond their actual demographic numbers. 243 00:26:29,620 --> 00:26:38,830 But nonetheless, it's fascinating that it's you know, it's one of these tiny minority that how to reach for this particular topic. 244 00:26:40,270 --> 00:26:43,510 And that was extinction of the universe. 245 00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:51,909 Was this so, you know, through this kind of recognition, not that you can arrest the seeds of monopoly capitalism, 246 00:26:51,910 --> 00:26:57,250 but the thinking is that even the British perceived is very dependent upon an Indian viewpoint, 247 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:05,310 to the point that I don't think I thought a British thinker would necessarily constantly be supporting this particular type. 248 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:16,660 And so looking at what is life, you know, what is the kind of policy will be that allows it to make all of these sorts of arguments? 249 00:27:16,660 --> 00:27:25,510 So I think one of the most important ones is just the sense in which the parties are starting to have a kind of the faithful, 250 00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:28,590 less about the less standard British. 251 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:35,060 That's not a good idea. So one of the major things that the policy is all about in the 1830, closer to the text. 252 00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:43,900 I think that's one of the more commercially successful they themselves, the Anglo selling for the British recognises the voices of a minority. 253 00:27:43,910 --> 00:27:48,220 To some extent it serves the sort of gentrification of the nuclear family. 254 00:27:49,060 --> 00:27:57,210 So certain arguments from side sex about all the rationalisations and all that kind of stuff. 255 00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:02,060 I mean, needless to say, there are people who still do that, stylish to say, 256 00:28:02,090 --> 00:28:09,840 but they're certainly more with in British circles than most of the other side of the problem. 257 00:28:09,850 --> 00:28:11,980 A lot of at least by analogy or educated passages, 258 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:22,060 but not having the punch which is associated with so those that you can you see courts regulate social mores. 259 00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:25,840 So of course, if you want to see the marriage inheritance, 260 00:28:26,050 --> 00:28:34,960 that stuff starts to come under a lot of critique because the policy elites who sit on it while they're presiding over cases of bigamy, 261 00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:40,840 inheritance, adultery, all this kind of stuff, there's a series of scandals with the politics themselves. 262 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:48,050 So there's all sorts of allegations of that is one of the key things, all the court itself accused that said. 263 00:28:48,580 --> 00:28:57,400 So there's a reaction amongst sort of the greater good of society that, look, we want to retain our religious kind of vanguard people, 264 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:04,450 but how can we possibly do so if you want to do so, because clearly you're up to the task. 265 00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:12,579 And so there is a point where you can see this as positive press on a discussion about what does a non-institutional social regulation look like? 266 00:29:12,580 --> 00:29:20,140 How do we get the prosecution to regulate itself without having to constantly go back to these guys, be somehow the keepers of all conscience? 267 00:29:20,590 --> 00:29:22,270 And the original thing is social reform. 268 00:29:22,270 --> 00:29:29,080 So this is the way in which he and his colleagues involved in educating women on setting up milestones for young boys, 269 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,420 getting more voices, civil service, all this kind of stuff that's about medium sizing, 270 00:29:34,420 --> 00:29:43,320 individualism, rational choices in life, you know, well, within that kind of distribution policy policy, 271 00:29:43,730 --> 00:29:49,160 it's a self-worth, just a subset except your classification towards these things. 272 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:56,450 So I think that's one of the initial tipping points of the scale of think about, okay, well how is that possible? 273 00:29:57,290 --> 00:30:03,790 Is it? We do the job, but especially not least because the border state is not getting older. 274 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:14,110 It's not really like 60. But they start to be a big sensitive to things like divorce and community repetition and whisky. 275 00:30:14,110 --> 00:30:20,080 But it might not be as close to do this as a kind of sense of a general state. 276 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,780 Talk you talk in terms of terrorism, but actually doing not very much like to bring it back. 277 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,910 This, I think, is much more, more, more serious. 278 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:42,540 So political riots that start crop up in the 1850s and seventies is mostly between Parsis and the city's Muslim community. 279 00:30:42,550 --> 00:30:52,390 The initial one is official records all speculate this is mostly between parties and the control Muslim community on the one hand, 280 00:30:52,390 --> 00:30:57,340 but also a lot of Shia groups doing what are untestable and this kind of thing. 281 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,180 I think you take the records with a pinch of salt because a lot of it the British like 282 00:31:01,180 --> 00:31:06,249 to deflect blame for their actions because it's not they have to deal with it so often. 283 00:31:06,250 --> 00:31:08,709 The reason they want to cut focus of the countries is because they say, Oh, 284 00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:14,850 well, there's a new group of culture, but there are a new elements in Bombay. 285 00:31:15,790 --> 00:31:20,260 So it's a bit unclear sometimes who these are, but nonetheless, I mean, 286 00:31:20,650 --> 00:31:26,680 there is a series of these events which then sort of proliferate beyond Bombay as well, even if you could drop the place, 287 00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:29,410 which really puts the policy community on the back foot, 288 00:31:29,470 --> 00:31:38,380 because previously they enjoyed quite good relations with political parties, with their neighbours or whatever. 289 00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:45,120 I guess the other thing in terms of, you know, in the context of the policy, countries look respectable, 290 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:52,030 but there's violence amongst the forces or reprisal in some cases of communities as well. 291 00:31:52,180 --> 00:31:54,440 I'll see you kind of hypocrisy. 292 00:31:55,210 --> 00:32:02,980 So that really makes analogy and is kind of people with such backgrounds say, okay, this is not how we want our community to look. 293 00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:07,700 So again, he's he and colleagues say this is about what is it? 294 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,270 It can't just be religious because we say sorry, but that's such a long time, so that can't be it. 295 00:32:13,510 --> 00:32:16,919 And he starts to think along sort of the lines of it's a failure. 296 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:24,129 The British policy is potentially a failure of kind of suppress the economy to some extent, 297 00:32:24,130 --> 00:32:28,390 because I think what he does realise as some of the papers do at the time as well, 298 00:32:28,390 --> 00:32:32,850 is that a lot of the tensions of emerging emerging between these communities are between traders. 299 00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:37,900 So particularly the opium trade with China became a bit of a cleavage point between 300 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,280 Muslims and the Palestinians as they were kind of fighting for control of that trade. 301 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,540 It is so proliferated through the community. So it is slightly politically. 302 00:32:46,540 --> 00:32:59,500 But I think Ravi, anyway, when he's interviewed about these riots, maybe he says, look, I know, I know it's useful to stop these differences. 303 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,330 You know, all Muslims are people. He says, no, it's got nothing to do with that. 304 00:33:04,330 --> 00:33:09,729 There is a deep a cause. And he doesn't specifically say what the deeper causes for India. 305 00:33:09,730 --> 00:33:12,990 But the rest of the article very interesting about working class politics in Britain. 306 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:22,660 So there seems to be this kind of understanding in his head that there is a political economy over this and in the early stages in the fifties. 307 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:28,150 But that doesn't quite work. That is it. But it's a very interesting evidence of that. 308 00:33:28,690 --> 00:33:35,290 But he's also looking at this. So I think the initial section of the book has tried to make this between these these major events. 309 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:43,840 It's always expected. So this is the first thing you get leaves away from that seminal kind of setting of schools. 310 00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:51,260 But he managed not to take it moving away from those sort of things, but he doesn't think it's the silver bullet. 311 00:33:51,260 --> 00:33:57,940 It's a special meditation and socialisation between the ethnic groups that he used to think it was. 312 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:06,650 And it's very interesting that it's dominated by, say, fifties and sixties, and then it's just after 50 posts. 313 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,730 So I wanted to look at these events to kind of be a major shift in the staging. 314 00:34:12,490 --> 00:34:25,479 And as I suggested, early, immediately so called me now would be the best of these these problems are so this I would say this is kind of scary at the 315 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:35,620 other major point so interesting around about say time so initial to be lost in the 1850s and 1950s by the early 1860s, 316 00:34:36,910 --> 00:34:47,530 not just his commercial fortunes, but the commercial politics that we saw as a member of kind of a leading quasi this is really, really undermined. 317 00:34:47,530 --> 00:34:53,680 And I mean, so many variables across the 70 seconds in the 1960s because it was cool to share. 318 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,340 So this just to give a very brief. 319 00:34:58,470 --> 00:35:05,700 A massive increase in PRC borrowing by two executive member states because the American Civil War meant the 320 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:16,649 clock from the South was so complex to so a lot of the makeup of the Southeast much itself to invest very, 321 00:35:16,650 --> 00:35:21,840 very heavily in completely speculative enterprises don't have any kind of concrete basis. 322 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:33,600 Just just kind of some of the futures market speculation in commodity prices that kind of say that all the things that go along with 323 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:40,510 that that are so serious that people borrow massively because the cost of borrowing is going up to just by the second by half, 324 00:35:41,130 --> 00:35:50,400 even by things like land reclamation proceeds, something that's potentially be able to create solid gold in mind. 325 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,860 And the land has never claimed some stuff. But what happens when the war comes to a close? 326 00:35:55,860 --> 00:36:01,500 Because, of course, cotton prices collapse and yet companies, they fly back to the United States again, 327 00:36:02,070 --> 00:36:07,590 the banks that have lent all these forces money, even side loans, and they have to pay back. 328 00:36:08,340 --> 00:36:12,420 So you get lots of people losses, including after you declared bankruptcy. 329 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,930 And this becomes a real sort of, you know, psychological, psychological kind of way to maximise policies, 330 00:36:20,580 --> 00:36:26,220 profits, only because they've gone for almost unimpeachable economists in the fifties. 331 00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:33,560 So there'll be a group that to some extent showed sort of the rationality that go with that sort of British of traditional policies. 332 00:36:34,110 --> 00:36:38,560 So again, as a slight qualification, this is what saying there's plenty of evidence. 333 00:36:38,580 --> 00:36:49,230 If you start to show that the British government in Bombay warned why investors woke up not to see the way the slow it could help to stop this stuff. 334 00:36:49,860 --> 00:36:56,130 And then of course told us something. So it's slightly racist, certainly. 335 00:36:56,190 --> 00:37:00,560 But nonetheless, the are going to struggle with this sort of shift from there. 336 00:37:01,050 --> 00:37:12,850 Now, you get this almost like we do here today, just this very stark contrast between Wall Street and a kind of real space, 337 00:37:12,940 --> 00:37:21,000 because finance is not data, which is in the form of kind of business practices and then the consequences of that. 338 00:37:21,770 --> 00:37:27,059 So this kind of intellectual analysis to figure out what does that mean for us community, 339 00:37:27,060 --> 00:37:34,680 how are we going to get more and more good trades and less in the sort of sectors is part of it. 340 00:37:35,790 --> 00:37:44,550 And you can see from these two quotations this has a slightly larger relevance as well in terms of what we're talking about from social relations. 341 00:37:44,970 --> 00:37:48,600 So because the British government never really did much to create anything 342 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:54,000 by way of public sales insights into the creation of the communities itself. 343 00:37:55,250 --> 00:38:01,700 So if it was a hospital or a school or some sort of intellectual social class, 344 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:09,329 it was the wealthy members of the Muslim community, wealthy, Parsi particular who were subsidising all this stuff. 345 00:38:09,330 --> 00:38:19,110 When it's time for a better economy, what happens after the disco mania is what all that money is is not quite as valuable as it used to be. 346 00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:25,890 So these institutions that you saw this kind of cosmopolitan where different ethnic and religious groups were mixing, 347 00:38:25,950 --> 00:38:30,509 getting along even if it wasn't as a complete set, are starting over. 348 00:38:30,510 --> 00:38:34,150 This was the right place. And this idea that, okay, well, 349 00:38:34,170 --> 00:38:39,210 these are all people still contributing towards this they're doing in a much smaller way if they're doing in a similar way, 350 00:38:39,330 --> 00:38:42,330 which is the significance of this kind of policy. 351 00:38:43,050 --> 00:38:50,370 Well, what we tried to do before, but so all of a sudden, this this kind of lack of wealth or this temporary wealth has raised all sorts 352 00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:54,640 of questions about are we going to be able to continue to have a harmonious, 353 00:38:54,680 --> 00:39:02,840 almost public ceremony like we did before? So you can see that the gaze is shifting to how do you socialise people if you can't get it, 354 00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:09,510 if we can't get some strategy works, is that awful or is it all British? 355 00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:17,069 You've kind of the current system doesn't actually work so that's where you have this kind of jumping off. 356 00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:21,960 Point is pretty close to the call as I suggested. 357 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:29,310 So so how does this, you know, turn this is to a theory what relates to this really upset so Britain as much as is India. 358 00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:33,930 Well, the thing that really gets them out there in terms of looking at the social impact of this, 359 00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:43,500 these are all these these series of quite horrendous data from the 1860s where there are millions made, millions of deaths. 360 00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:49,070 The British you know, I do a kind of Irish summit approach where they say nothing could possibly say the markets. 361 00:39:49,090 --> 00:39:56,220 I mean, this is just natural assumes the outcome of what happens in overpopulated countries all they do these these. 362 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:07,860 It seems that, you know, those kind of labour camps where you kind of get sort of money to buy food shortages because of this sort of sale. 363 00:40:07,870 --> 00:40:15,339 But you have to walk 20 miles to reach to say it was a day's labour, either buy a car or that kind of stuff. 364 00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:22,720 So, you know, forestalling losses is pretty, you know, pretty extreme as far as a sort of a policy measure. 365 00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:31,830 So what prompted him and his colleagues emerging from DG go out basically to drive the countryside is to actually look at, 366 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:39,350 you know, what the conditions of some peasants are and the West and the British claims about them sort of, 367 00:40:39,580 --> 00:40:48,310 you know, like this is kind of a massively successful type monster to prove that kind of worth as as genuine so that people are starving. 368 00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:56,920 Whether that's true or whether the whole British revenue system is faulty from the very beginning, which not only so Simon in the first place, 369 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:03,010 but it's also prevents these people having resources they need when it's time to pay to buy food. 370 00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:08,250 So we're touching on kind of an artisan style social entitlements. 371 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,570 It's not what does the food that cause the site is market conditions and the fact that you 372 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:20,110 so exploitative these people have been saying for quite some time and it's precisely sort 373 00:41:20,110 --> 00:41:25,179 of this quest doesn't touch on it really involves the kind of statistical methods they come 374 00:41:25,180 --> 00:41:29,799 up with a series of complicated questions to ask an individual because it sounds like, 375 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:35,770 well, you know, when the British collector comes to they just ask for you actually supposed to owe if you can't pay at that time, 376 00:41:35,770 --> 00:41:40,479 does he gives you a month to pay or to see his methods, etc., etc. 377 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,820 So, you know, all the kind of official statistics, official claims about collecting, 378 00:41:44,890 --> 00:41:52,170 is it just as or is there a monopoly countries of the states extracting surplus from the peasantry? 379 00:41:52,990 --> 00:41:58,320 It's perhaps not surprising that that's exactly what's going on. 380 00:41:58,330 --> 00:42:01,970 So this is not legitimate in unusual. 381 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,690 And so you can see that's what some of the questions he asks. 382 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:11,980 Does the assessment generally serve the public role after satisfying involves the government in paying the costs to solve this? 383 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:18,730 So it's basically saying you do you have a surplus left to feed yourself to a temporary school and so on. 384 00:42:18,780 --> 00:42:24,310 And the thinking, I think that is to some extent you see that to the charitable endeavours of his own community. 385 00:42:24,370 --> 00:42:26,130 You can only do that with stuff as well. 386 00:42:26,530 --> 00:42:34,899 So there is a link being made between the very material conditions of kindness, respect for society, all those things kind of hand. 387 00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:39,360 Harris It's sort of like duty labour to create fiscal space. 388 00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:46,930 It's not something that just happens to be cool or good policy, but it's a product process itself. 389 00:42:47,890 --> 00:42:49,450 So, you know, trying to figure out, okay, well, 390 00:42:49,450 --> 00:43:00,010 if that's not how it works and how can we achieve that through to kind of social reform in places like India and becomes increasingly global? 391 00:43:00,020 --> 00:43:03,030 He kind of looks at these ideas. 392 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:11,470 The conclusion in a sort of luxury come Marxist way that whatever wealth society, 393 00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:15,090 whatever we charge to be accumulated wealth of the scientific community, 394 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:22,160 wealth of the city is primarily a product of that initial leg production, 395 00:43:22,180 --> 00:43:28,809 but it's primarily a product of someone with natural capacities, but not necessarily the whole mixing by labour with the land. 396 00:43:28,810 --> 00:43:33,480 And that is what creates the additional capital, in which case, you know, 397 00:43:33,490 --> 00:43:38,469 that is to make the argument that the labour has a greater right to that share of capital. 398 00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:43,300 But say banks is not doing anything to acquire it is not. 399 00:43:45,070 --> 00:43:52,479 And that's the thing that would that allows extends to what is in the UK throughout the fifties and sixties and seventies is 400 00:43:52,480 --> 00:44:00,400 that in looking around the sort of British public institutions itself of the plight of the Indian cultivators saying look, 401 00:44:00,430 --> 00:44:03,460 I mean, is it capital is sort of stored up in banks? 402 00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:13,860 What rights does a bank have to sort of at the very least, it will be reinvesting, capitalised as it was because they had created that. 403 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:21,790 So it is kind of preoccupation with capitalistic media, financial institutions and objects like livery commons, 404 00:44:23,170 --> 00:44:29,680 which is acceptable to rent or somehow illegitimate because they don't play a role. 405 00:44:29,980 --> 00:44:37,690 Producing is actually the first test. And again, this is really something, you know, it is, as you know this that you dream of at home. 406 00:44:38,020 --> 00:44:41,580 But it seems that the company institutions by itself raises questions. 407 00:44:41,590 --> 00:44:50,160 So the idea is, was like it's like that you get a lot with what he taught in college, but it wasn't a secondary discussion class. 408 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:57,700 It was this other stuff about cars with drugs and so forth. So, you know, sort of, you know, borrowing this from the West. 409 00:44:59,850 --> 00:45:03,440 So it's about what kind of needs during those times, 410 00:45:03,450 --> 00:45:12,160 that type of crisis where it gets very kind of immediate and perhaps from Massachusetts to ideas of kind of social contract. 411 00:45:12,190 --> 00:45:16,680 Where do individuals use that production and consumption problems with each other? 412 00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:21,840 He's actually in prison, so there's a whole prison fold movement going on. 413 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:29,580 So I mostly headed by sort of the middle class, stupid, as I say, that very complex and the best I could say to be. 414 00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:35,459 Right. And also trying to do something about not only to actually kind of piggyback on this, 415 00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:44,640 but then I guess squeezes a lot more information out of endoscopic capsule theory where he notices that a lot of prisoners that basically are engaged, 416 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:54,060 it looks like they need better statistics on what a campus economy should look like than what the official statistics say. 417 00:45:54,180 --> 00:46:00,030 So that's the kind of, say, the statistics. Certainly Bombay all finished production or even production by regions. 418 00:46:00,060 --> 00:46:02,190 Great. It's all very aggregate. 419 00:46:03,870 --> 00:46:11,429 And then Orgy says, well, how do how do you ever get to kind of understand the sorts of kind of economic relationships you need to make, 420 00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:20,950 the kind of individual assumption when all you do constantly, you're producing all these kind of ethnic categories or data customs, 421 00:46:21,210 --> 00:46:25,620 what the present statistics have, all individualistic kind of information, 422 00:46:25,620 --> 00:46:34,530 all of the prisoner wrecks produce this number of kind of tips under these conditions that he was this productive and so on. 423 00:46:35,610 --> 00:46:39,900 And he seems to take note of the fact, for whatever reason in the President, 424 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:47,880 caste and religion is not as much of a sort of socially defining test as sort of just individual relationships. 425 00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:56,520 So he then uses that some kind of, you know, the basic level of subsistence for an individual in using prison systems. 426 00:46:56,850 --> 00:47:06,090 And then how what surplus labour is not real levels to form a meaningful kind of cycle of production, consumption or subject. 427 00:47:06,100 --> 00:47:12,389 So it's a very strange place to extract that data from. And he's certainly not unsympathetic to the fact the conditions in his prison. 428 00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:16,440 Also, he does get involved in writing letters to say that these things should be changed. 429 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,160 But as a sort of data set, 430 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:27,670 it's interesting if he's going to these sort of typical institutions to kind of extract this type of information because these other species doesn't. 431 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:36,290 So to get any relevance in the same house or to become, like I said, those members eight years ago, 432 00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:41,220 I mean, you guys said saying this is not a standard representation of the White House. 433 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:46,980 And actually, if you look at a lot of his speeches in the House, there is much to do to kind of say what they are. 434 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:58,170 I think this is a big debate. And he said he finds, you know, leaks like those let the theory value the necessity to get financed out of the question. 435 00:47:58,170 --> 00:48:03,360 So with Irish nationalists, as you might imagine, and they collectively are pushing for, 436 00:48:04,020 --> 00:48:08,630 you know, major kind of economic Republican reform in this regard. 437 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:14,100 What sorts of institutions do you need to bring in to into check? 438 00:48:14,460 --> 00:48:22,290 And he also made distinctions again, has it be touched on because the housing estate is such an existing issue, 439 00:48:23,010 --> 00:48:31,170 justifies his candidature to the working people of Central Finsbury on the grounds that he's seen the conditions and he knows that they can 440 00:48:32,310 --> 00:48:42,930 seen better than people like that at a time when there was considerable xenophobia towards Irish migrants and asylum seeking to discuss. 441 00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:48,570 And so he believes it to me because of the kind of, you know, triangulate as well. 442 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,980 I know, you know, in that chapter of the book, obviously he's a major politician. 443 00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:56,309 But I mean, he gets elected by a very, very narrow margin, 444 00:48:56,310 --> 00:49:03,450 so much that he's pulled down by a narrow majority of literally Seaside Heights last weekend. 445 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:09,540 So but nonetheless, he does get elected on the basis of these very, very radical arguments. 446 00:49:09,540 --> 00:49:12,839 At a time when New Glasson was making similar points in the New Castle program. 447 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,309 Not quite saviours of its liberalism, but but you know what? 448 00:49:17,310 --> 00:49:22,379 He does not leave it to the only thing that you're in the same boat as it is. 449 00:49:22,380 --> 00:49:28,230 Therefore, I'm an appropriate representative for the electorate. 450 00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:34,700 And you can see, you know, when he starts posting these things in the local press and it's best to he says you're pretty safe. 451 00:49:36,180 --> 00:49:40,410 Everything is softcore capitalism and Christmas presents. 452 00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:45,200 At the same time he's giving tools to local gentlemen's. 453 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,540 So on pages that say exactly the same thing about. 454 00:49:48,780 --> 00:49:57,180 So he's clearly trying to make this link between his like theory of value, the use of patient wealth in multiculturalism, 455 00:49:57,510 --> 00:50:07,470 and then a kind of at least of imperial politics or politics about how to get that through various Republican institutions. 456 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:14,549 So what does that Republicanism look like? I think it's worth saying that the things he suggests are tailored to the place. 457 00:50:14,550 --> 00:50:22,500 So what he suggests the idea is not what a certain what he suggests is so much of it is about control of the countryside. 458 00:50:22,540 --> 00:50:30,149 So he, perhaps uncharacteristically for a liberal, I think, kind of takes the newspaper as a given, except that it has overweening power. 459 00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:35,960 But he accepts that he doesn't necessarily see an easy way to roll that back. 460 00:50:35,970 --> 00:50:41,310 But he says if that's the case, then it must be complete, even if it's not democratic. 461 00:50:41,310 --> 00:50:46,240 If you just look at his injuries, people will understand the problems will get better. 462 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:51,360 And I think he says the money that these people have, they might be justified in the process. 463 00:50:52,620 --> 00:50:59,370 But I can tell you, in a gentrified middle class India, we're more inclined to spend it on the things that go back like it might be charity, 464 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:05,010 might be know civil society institutions might be set up new factory. 465 00:51:05,250 --> 00:51:16,790 Then the British civil servant who uses it kind of abscond to say nothing of the kind of hugely generous pensions and personal subsidies enjoyed it. 466 00:51:16,820 --> 00:51:21,149 It's the same logic that I think applies to his his British suggestions. 467 00:51:21,150 --> 00:51:24,820 But of course, this is not intended for a country that's in 1867. 468 00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:27,840 It has a French outside working man and is a parliamentary democracy. 469 00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:36,030 So one of the things he really points out is that, you know, given the fact of the working class, the fact that you haven't achieved a grade, 470 00:51:36,030 --> 00:51:47,850 so that sort of areas of this process just goes to show that the system is rigged so that it comes up with these ideas to to level the playing field. 471 00:51:48,060 --> 00:51:51,650 As I mentioned, industrial rules is a very big one. 472 00:51:51,660 --> 00:51:56,680 So he basically wants to bring statistical literacy from India until industrial. 473 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,210 Of course, he says you can have labour accessible numbers, 474 00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:04,319 have capital because it's not equal numbers, but then you need a third party model is what I did. 475 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:09,390 So you can say, okay, well what did I actually get paid? 476 00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:17,309 Where is that money going? Extractive, how much they supply, how much surpluses and actually actively participate. 477 00:52:17,310 --> 00:52:26,790 Citizens were quite stable and that is the way that you will kind of solve the various forms of the social. 478 00:52:28,070 --> 00:52:29,720 Films are actually pretty tight. 479 00:52:30,020 --> 00:52:39,650 There are a lot of xenophobia towards Irish people, but also a lot of politics that's sometimes recently contained but is getting quite sort of tense. 480 00:52:40,130 --> 00:52:48,730 But it's certainly not the status quo and there are other parts of the world which the engagement is not necessary. 481 00:52:48,740 --> 00:52:57,049 But he said he takes an interest in, so he extended some correspondence which gives a boost to this messaging, social engineering, 482 00:52:57,050 --> 00:53:04,640 working in Africa to get integration of pirates exploiting Africans as part of processes of kind of rustic excellence. 483 00:53:05,300 --> 00:53:17,000 But that extended lessons about what they might do to improve access and access to the services and such a very, very easy city. 484 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:24,710 I mean, you know, both he's the kind of person that says you want to have the right type of English elites that for the most sets of people, 485 00:53:24,860 --> 00:53:30,440 in the sense that, you know, you have a critical look at the structure of how the official mind works. 486 00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:37,700 So boots on to do this technology wise, that they know exactly what you want to actually be educated somewhere else, 487 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:44,840 but nonetheless, they are the people who will probably understand how to, you know, be Patrick Smuts, so to speak. 488 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:50,970 So again, it's not just in India today, it's not even just the British to be a part of this. 489 00:53:52,350 --> 00:53:57,680 There are a couple of senators who actually adopt his ideas very, very seriously, partly through correspondence. 490 00:53:58,750 --> 00:54:05,410 So he has a number of friends in the United States with been kind of they put a radical 491 00:54:05,420 --> 00:54:10,070 view of the Democrats who are in touch with people like William Jennings Bryan, 492 00:54:10,340 --> 00:54:12,860 who is a major part of populism. 493 00:54:12,970 --> 00:54:23,420 It's famous for the Cross of Gold speech, which was about bringing the United States back to the States because those it is logic anyway. 494 00:54:23,420 --> 00:54:29,540 Those are also said to be the basis on which agricultural borrowing and debt had to be agreed. 495 00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:36,500 So when America is the gold standard, as the initial kind of create the kind of voice to some extent that's present, 496 00:54:36,530 --> 00:54:42,590 it is very much as extraction of wealth from the American technical side, industrial and commercial interests. 497 00:54:43,730 --> 00:54:54,820 So actually very keen to use this narrative writing these speeches, particularly with regards to how this could be fixed by America. 498 00:54:54,860 --> 00:55:04,340 So he says, again, using energy, thinking of British politics and he declared is too late and says, 499 00:55:04,550 --> 00:55:11,450 look, if you let's mainstream American kind of use such as a run around the Philippines. 500 00:55:11,550 --> 00:55:19,730 Well we'll have to see what the British and plenty about this is correspondence to show was the book he was 501 00:55:19,730 --> 00:55:27,900 opening at that stage of the is meeting certain at the very least that these arguments if not completely untrue. 502 00:55:27,950 --> 00:55:33,499 So I think that's much more striking Neal though, again, there's only so much you can do. 503 00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:41,510 So Marx and Marxism actually perhaps influenced by these arguments about a kind of 504 00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:47,180 more universalist political this particularly from the Republican point of view, 505 00:55:48,860 --> 00:55:56,990 Henry Hindman, who is sort of the social Democratic figure in Pied Piper, that's all you all sometimes pillory press. 506 00:55:57,740 --> 00:56:05,389 Congress to some extent has a very extensive correspondence with he was analogy is not always terribly 507 00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:13,160 public about because climate is so often so grassroots careful about how you see those associations. 508 00:56:13,310 --> 00:56:19,720 Also, I think it's not just these socialists as a matter of time and often advocates of nationalisation of stuff. 509 00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:23,440 What he says No, no, no. I mean, I've been an idiot. I never have. 510 00:56:24,380 --> 00:56:27,380 But it doesn't it doesn't work. So, you know, 511 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:34,010 he's sort of trying to find a light behind that is appreciated by most makes me smile when he says and 512 00:56:34,190 --> 00:56:40,700 specifically says there's this guy now reads what we know from you know catalogue communist manifesto. 513 00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:47,680 It's all these Marxist views, a kind of surplus that structures of the best are underdeveloped. 514 00:56:48,050 --> 00:56:57,680 And it might be fair to say that. So he hasn't, you know, very easy to sketches of accounts of destruction in the West. 515 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:06,589 But empire is kind of the end of the lesson between the climate and Marx is, I think, the end of 1886. 516 00:57:06,590 --> 00:57:14,080 I remember correctly by February 1891, Marx has something published in the tropics where this is published. 517 00:57:14,510 --> 00:57:19,070 He talks about the bleeding from India and the great wealth and so on and all this stuff. 518 00:57:19,370 --> 00:57:27,730 This framework is hard to imagine, so we can't definitively say that that's where he votes, although there does seem to be a kind of narrative. 519 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,240 To some extent, entertainment continues. 520 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,370 This disperses encourages ideas they trust. 521 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:44,420 Well, some experts forecasted that basically the content of the content of British movies was published in 92. 522 00:57:44,540 --> 00:57:49,969 So there is this real sort of, you know, potentially global influence of a man who, you know, 523 00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:55,400 in the mid 19th century, there weren't many other things from this kind of theoretical symbology at that level. 524 00:57:56,180 --> 00:58:05,030 But to be honest, I say always thought to be the next one is probably the one who has a global impact. 525 00:58:06,020 --> 00:58:15,690 I think maybe you can make an argument. Some of this is another sign of some of it's not just a site. 526 00:58:16,010 --> 00:58:20,930 So just to conclude very, very briefly, I mean, these are these are scattered on the way. 527 00:58:20,930 --> 00:58:27,610 The book synthesis, strangely enough, given the fact this is about liberalism, even if it's a radical, that is to say, 528 00:58:27,770 --> 00:58:35,600 the people who pick him up and some liberals are going that there is quite a bit is is very kind of Marxist socialist these ideas. 529 00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:42,379 But I think the key animating sort of threat to all of this is the kind of Republican approach to sort of political conflict, 530 00:58:42,380 --> 00:58:51,470 that there are forms of monopolistic capitalism that are forms dominate the but 531 00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:55,460 there are various ways to start wars that don't necessarily involve the state. 532 00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:02,100 So for Heinemann, the state is probably the best. But of course he involves submissions which are quite extensive. 533 00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,470 Get these ideas that we don't like. 534 00:59:07,020 --> 00:59:10,579 So we've sort of gone these relationships now. 535 00:59:10,580 --> 00:59:13,370 Gs66 I mean, if you read against Faraci Defender. 536 00:59:14,180 --> 00:59:18,169 Someone asked him a question, says, Oh, we're not the kind of the Founding Fathers of Congress think. 537 00:59:18,170 --> 00:59:26,390 Your sexuality says, Well, actually, I quite agree with lots of destruction, of wealth, stuff that energy came up with. 538 00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:35,959 He's the first one released. And so if you carry that a bit into sort of the lexicon, your rights and so on that are about, 539 00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,050 say, the relationship between cities, religious difficulties. 540 00:59:39,300 --> 00:59:42,470 It's not a framework that I think nobody would have expected to use it. 541 00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:50,899 But if you follow the logic of what Gandhi's basically saying is that it's not necessarily that the British imperial structures are full of, 542 00:59:50,900 --> 01:00:01,120 but this is modern. Commercial society in itself is a form of monopolistic, arbitrary impingement of individual but or another. 543 01:00:01,370 --> 01:00:06,530 The solution is, as he sees it, is the village actually should look at lots of the tropes he uses. 544 01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:11,930 They're very, very analogy. So I find it interesting that he never does it be very easy to say, look, 545 01:00:11,930 --> 01:00:15,890 now he was a great leader because he sort of Congress is celebrated by saying 546 01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:20,240 that's just as important stuff because it's not as useful as we think it is. 547 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:26,150 But he never does. So actually, you know, it obviously isn't. But my solution to it is different. 548 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:31,560 But those those categories of domination still seem to run through security. 549 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:37,309 And, of course, Nehru, who has that status, is a big part of what he's doing. 550 01:00:37,310 --> 01:00:45,709 But that development is a substitute that's very much about tackling structures impinging on the freedoms of India, 551 01:00:45,710 --> 01:00:51,230 so much so that let's say you get it for the conditions also, but it implies that testing. 552 01:00:51,740 --> 01:00:54,640 So you find it again and again in their writings that, look, 553 01:00:55,100 --> 01:01:03,620 you cannot really have any form of democratic socialisation if you get rid of poverty and all the ethnographic categories that you perhaps justified. 554 01:01:04,430 --> 01:01:14,020 So fanaticism will go creating policy parameters that will go if you get to the cult that, you know, it's a silver bullet to these issues. 555 01:01:14,060 --> 01:01:16,400 But I don't necessarily agree with it, 556 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:24,379 but it seems to me that's at least partly inheritance from how I present outside of this political economic critique is about global socialisation. 557 01:01:24,380 --> 01:01:29,630 It's about how groups, societies or societies relate to one another. 558 01:01:30,350 --> 01:01:31,669 And as we try to take that picture, 559 01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:40,370 there is this guy sat next to me media a who becomes a major component of this because it's the same central policy, 560 01:01:40,370 --> 01:01:47,809 which of course is very cleverly placed because that's so state to a that I think the 561 01:01:47,810 --> 01:01:53,510 conventional wisdom around that is it's a sort of libertarian right wing economic policy. 562 01:01:54,170 --> 01:01:57,420 From what I understand, it's not necessarily that straightforward. 563 01:01:57,450 --> 01:02:05,810 So what is the party's minimum money Masonic likes is the Hungarian collective party in Hungary, 564 01:02:07,580 --> 01:02:11,810 which was precisely not saying about smallholders keeping their profits, 565 01:02:12,020 --> 01:02:17,120 working together so that financial capitalism isn't necessarily mediating anyway, that this, you know, 566 01:02:18,260 --> 01:02:23,610 relating to each other and there is a disagreement with him was very clear cut straight what he prefers. 567 01:02:23,610 --> 01:02:27,650 Stuxnet says something went wrong when we were thinking about. 568 01:02:28,190 --> 01:02:31,290 The relationship to commerce, exploitation, collectivism, 569 01:02:31,290 --> 01:02:37,800 neoplatonism because narrowly understood that the state is not nearly so what the Congress thought. 570 01:02:38,970 --> 01:02:43,470 So he sees himself as kind of a yet redeemable king in some sense. 571 01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:53,730 It's not that the goals never roll that he wants these kind of rules, but that the state is definitely opposition to this. 572 01:02:54,210 --> 01:03:01,290 And a lot of his critique of the Nehruvian state is in the very high gloss narrative colonial, overly corporatized, classic. 573 01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,850 The money, corruption, money isn't getting back to where it was, sort of. 574 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:13,740 So it's very interesting kind of what kind of legacy is being split between what I'm calling disparate political ideologies. 575 01:03:14,460 --> 01:03:16,270 But I think existing through the mistakes, 576 01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:24,900 the way the rest is like in various ways because that that kind of secular liberalism, this bastion to some extent. 577 01:03:26,010 --> 01:03:28,900 So I'll leave it at that. Thank you very much. And have to say.