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Well, I think while we are waiting for everybody who would like to join us to do so.

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I will say a few words about our seminars on women's rights in the Middle East, which started in 2009.

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For those of you who don't know these seminars and their idea was to actually find out more about what recent research is going on,

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contemporary research in relation to women's rights in the Middle East,

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as opposed to just repeating what we already know about women's rights in the least, because a lot of things have changed.

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And as part of that, we also have included an immediate easterns in the diaspora or from the Muslim warning widely.

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The other aspect which we have also covered is this a question of looking also at some historical context as well as contemporary want to give

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it actually proper framework to what in the past has been some women who had probably been activists in the field of Muslim women's rights.

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So we are now assisting those and now we're in the 11th year of doing so.

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And it is a particularly great pleasure for me to introduce our speaker today.

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Benjamin de Gaulle was currently a PHC candidate in sociology at the School of Advanced Studies in Social Sciences in Paris.

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He's also a member of the Centre for Studies in Social Sciences and Religion at the Senate race, which is the on last year.

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Now there are whole show scientific centre for Studies in social sciences of religion in modern countries,

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and he's cutting it currently a member of Missal from says in Oxford, Benjamin, who is also a member of the Jewish Muslim Research Network.

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Benjamin's research is mainly situated in this intersection of social sciences, of religion, gender studies and queer studies.

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And it is looking at their initiatives designed by Muslim communities themselves to promote gender equality within an Islamic framework.

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And he also has got a particular interest in democracy and secularism and the way politics,

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the impact on lived experiences of Muslim minorities on the ground.

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At his presentation today is of particular interest to me, especially because this is an issue which has actually been very addressed, very little.

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I don't know of very many similar studies of how you're looking at the context of

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the mosque and the queer studies and and a comparison between France and the UK.

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So the title of Benjamin's presentation is God Does Not Discriminate.

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Inclusive Mosques, Politics in France and the United Kingdom.

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Benjamin, please go ahead. You have got 45 minutes. All right.

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Thank you very much. Thanks for allowing me to be part of this and read it today.

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I would just share my point. So, no, you should see my slides is outright.

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Yes. OK, perfect. So, yes.

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Thank you, everybody, for frightened things. This seminar. These studies I am presenting today is part of my ongoing research on practises of

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inclusion and care by and for queer Muslims groups in both France and the United Kingdom,

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which is a study that started in 2000 and 18.

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It relies on the Rafie data collected during moments of participant observation during social and religious events,

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organising inclusive musk and queer Muslim organisations. And there is also a similar structure.

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Interviews with religious leaders and organisation members.

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I am especially interested in feminist ethics of care.

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As theorised by John Tronto and every night come Glenn Beyond the Secret,

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our approach to Care I research health care can be performed in a religious framework in

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contemporary Muslim communities in line with what's a South African that's called our class.

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Classing as your eyes, as pastoral care. And as Janet Julie argued, in light of the Islamic ethics of justice,

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they are political Solidarity's to be built between secular feminist and Muslim communities

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to emphasise the role of care as necessary to assist a noble and flourishing society.

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So as he sees, this would be my theoretical framework. Today, I want to focus on two inclusive mosques, one in France and one in the United Kingdom.

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And how is the approach care by inclusive mosque?

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I mean a mosque welcoming believers in Mink's congregations regardless of their gender, sexuality, ethnicity or even social status.

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These bases especially care for Muslim marginalised within the larger Muslim community.

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There are a few more inclusive spaces in each country, in France and the United Kingdom.

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But these are as a two must put spaces. So far as these last few years, Xao Bufferin by women and interesting Lizzies women,

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all aimed at responding to the needs expressed by the religious community.

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So similarly,

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two Turkish women is a women in most movements that may not talked about during the last seminar as these women witnessed and experienced themselves,

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inequalities of access to religious spaces, they say, finds a woman's room of their most often dirty, difficult to access.

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They experience so no woman who experience difficulty to engage in religious rituals

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and to connect proves the divine because of a lack of appropriate facilities.

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And because a women's room. Often that's the end of a set of stairs.

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Elderly woman in D.C. Both women have difficulties to access these spaces, especially,

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so it's because of all these difficulties that these spaces have been created in the first place.

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So this is a really important dimension of this mosque as they emerge from a sense of

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responsibility shared by Muslim woman to accommodate and care for marginalised Muslims,

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for women, but also for other groups. And in that sense, these women have the same rationale as more conservative Muslim woman.

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I am thinking of ethnographic studies conducted by John and Julie in France and Germany or Sonya Contracter in the United Kingdom on Orthodox

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Muslim woman groups who were sceptical of feminism and focussed preferred to focus on their role on the roles they could play for their community,

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on their duties rather than their individual rights.

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And in each case, for both feminist groups and more orthodox group of women, it's a sense of responsibility which always triggers that action.

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So we're going to look at the best talker, different for queer Muslim woman especially.

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Yes. I'm so sorry to interrupt you. I meant to ask people, please ask your questions as we go along so we can then address them off.

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So that's finished. Sorry. Eventually. I have not mentioned. Please go at.

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No reason. So, yes, I as I was saying, we're going to cancel testimony.

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Can't develop especially for Christmas with most.

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Just to be specific, as a lot of people may know, here is the word Craig used to be an insult against people,

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Priscu of deaths, sexually deviant in English, which has since been reappropriated by sexual minorities globally.

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It is mainly used in English speaking context. So in France, women would tend to use other words to define themselves, such as lesbian or transgender.

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But in the U.K. is the word queer is quite popular amongst Muslim woman.

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And I think especially because he does not refer to a particular gender or sexuality.

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It enables women to define themselves outside of a more normative framework.

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Why remaining unspecific about Sarah Purdy's, about their gender, about their sexuality.

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And that's such I think it's resonates with an aesthetic value of modesty.

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So in this presentation, I will remain unspecific on purpose when it comes to the name of the participants as an image of the

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organisations involved and the geographical location so as to protect the participants privacy.

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These two mosque above, including the Zavitz, slightly different atolls.

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I'm going to develop that idea later on. But first, I just want to give you a bit of background on the East story about this mosque.

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So is he in inclosing?

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Mosque in France emerge from a small community locally, which has progressively been building up on social media through a Facebook page.

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The two founders are to enter a sexual woman who used to go to another inquisitive mosque which had been funded by a gay imam in Paris in 2010.

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This is the first mosque has since been clubs and these woman's and opened their own inclusive mosque in September 2019.

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So why comparing this to a mosque?

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We need to keep in mind that the French mosque is actually a young mosque, kissed a very recent project in the United Kingdom.

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As a woman and more time to attempt at practises and to, you know, get feedback from that congregation.

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So, Zain, because a mosque in London has been funded in 2012 by a group of Chrome was a woman who were previously involved in the LGBT Muslim

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organisation and which were also involved in academic research projects regarding the needs of queer Muslim women in the United Kingdom,

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findings that must resources online and in real life, where mainly aimed at men, at queer Muslim men,

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anxiety, there was a need for more inclusive space for vulnerable Muslim woman.

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They created a mosque based on the principle of radical in Christianity.

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So a common pungency story of this mosque so far is that as a personal experience of career,

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Muslims are always at the root of these initiatives because even in this case of France,

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the experience of as a gay imam, informed and inspire, was a project out of the current mosque.

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So the question I'm trying to answer today is, oh, is pastoral care being developed for Chrom Whistlin women in if mosques?

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And we're going to go through three different key bombs.

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The first one is we're going to look at some different understandings that this mosque of inclusive team,

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which is very much informed by different political imagineering, is an influenza kind of pastoral care, which is being provided INSS spaces.

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In a second part,

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we're going to look more closely at the care practises within the mosque and they participate in constructing the subjectivity of Muslim woman.

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And in the last hour, we're going to look at the obstacles says these women are facing while creating and developing their mosque.

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And very quickly, that ambition for the future. So is the United Kingdom, is it intrusive?

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Musk embraces an Islamic feminism, which is heavily influenced by the work of I mean, why do it?

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And they find it's inclusive. As radical, inclusive. I will not talk about Savides sort of Islamic feminism,

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which are being developed globally because it's not really is a goal of this presentation and who take too long.

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What I am interested in, in this presentation is our particular kind of Islamic feminism,

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which will be a feminist Islamic feminism, sorry, promoted by I mean, we're doomed.

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And sisters in Islam manifest itself and is being implemented in a grassroots organisation in a local mosque in the United Kingdom.

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So there has been an epistemological shift in the work of I mean, what do these last 20 years?

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She previously understood women as part of the binary between men and woman.

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And within an eight or normative framework where men and women at complementary qualities and fraud's to the year 2000,

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what would progressively started considering gender as more Frade and gender as a category of and is conceptually allowed to

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move away from complementarity of the sexes and compulsory heterosexuality to give room to what she calls sexual diversity.

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It is visible in the literature she produces, but also in our discourse.

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And in addition to whether it's out, there is also the influence of the colonial studies,

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which are very present in the discourse of the mosque members.

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So women running the mosque are characterised by a strong cultural and educational capital.

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So our highly educated peers deliver most of the time and often identify compulsory atter of sexuality

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as the produce of modern bioplastics systematically imposed on Muslim society through colonisation.

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So therefore, critiques of colonisation and Aitor on the mighty V.T. often go hand-in-hand in the discourse of this mosque.

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We can better understand the epistemological shift in the work of do it by

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looking at a speech she gave ING's Inclusive Moleskins the UK in September 2017.

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And this is how she introduced her speech. I quote. Because I am personally located in this as a cis gender female,

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I have not vetted myself for every single word about whether or not I am equally intrusive in terms of the location from the LGBTQ community.

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And that is also Konsta, contextually significant, I think,

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because working for what we used to call gender reform was primarily within the context of their own maturity.

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I think it's important for me to let you know that I might slip into a certain presumption of veteran immaturity,

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because that is a way in which the gender movement was shaped. But it is not where it is finished.

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So this can explain the rationale of the mosque of radical incredulity, the responsibility to care for the community is extended to sexual minorities.

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Amongst are ostracised groups was identities and specific position that issues are taken into account.

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And you can see in this text on the right, which promotes an Evans of the mosque, I quote, All are welcome.

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And we sometimes the voices of Muslims who are women, non binary, gender, queer,

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black and disabled especially so populations which are on the margins and who have difficulties to access religious spaces in the UK especially.

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So Roger Clinton credibility extends beyond gender and sexuality.

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Participant can share experience of being a marginalised minority, Weaving's and Muslim community.

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However, this shared experience does not mean there is no existing prejudices between the individuals in this mosque.

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If we consider the experience of being who is on the left,

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here is an utter or sexual sej under a man who has been occasionally leading the prayers and giving sermons on Fridays in these settings us, I quote.

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So I wasn't necessarily at the increasing mosque because of his gender politics at the beginning, such as seemed like a nice addition for me.

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What was more important was its non-sectarian nature. And that's because even though I grew up in a Middle Eastern country, I'm not from there.

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And in fact, I belong to a religious minority which falls under one of the Shia schools of Islam.

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And so in the Middle Eastern country.

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And this is something that I contraries speak to openly about Zehr, is that my community is not allowed to practise freely.

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Because there are restrictions on Shia Muslims practising in that country.

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And so because of that, like I own race, that is a cute sort of sense that there was this part of me that I wasn't sharing.

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So even though I would lead prayer in university, for example, most of my friends didn't know that I was Shia.

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And so that's not in fact, I also like so a lot of anti Shia sentiment being openly shared.

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And so because of that, I couldn't, in a sense, come out as Shia easer.

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So I think a similar vocabulary of aiding and not coming out is interesting in itself

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as it's triggered to be research for an inquisitive space when you move to the UK.

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So you lived in the UK for four years. And it's especially interesting to compare this to what being a queer Muslim woman with a Sydney background

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to say about the presence of Shia Muslim in light of her own experience as part of a sexual minority.

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And I quote, There are some forms that I have recently found out of Shiite ism, which for me is slightly concerning,

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but I'm not trying to put too much focus on it, because if I do that, then I feel lands of personal words,

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if I'm trying to do with myself, is going down with the roots that I am familiar with in terms of the judgement,

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the, you know, having an opinion and then just forcing it on everyone else kind of thing.

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So I'm trying to keep an open mind, is what I'm trying to say, because what I want to take out of this experience is a good that comes out of it,

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which is really just folding on creating connexion with people's Atami that have similar views.

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And that's how hope and being vulnerable.

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So the mosque is out for best with incredulity is not only postulated or photo if it is performed despite prejudices,

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sometimes Muslims who have different practises get together and engage in

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alternative practises in Shia or Sufi rituals to express Vivus way of being Muslim,

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ways of practising that they wouldn't necessarily be exposed to Exell local tradition of mosque or at home, especially share rituals that matter.

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So women's in because it musk in the U.K. follow an genetics of justice,

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seeming out to more conservative Islamic movement but affected by an epistemological shift.

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As we've seen in terms of gender and sexual age, politics as fear rise by Islamic feminist cutters.

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Beyond this, an ethos of radical incredulity is being applied, which Allen West came from different backgrounds to joins a community.

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Things are very different in France. Actually, it is interesting mosque in France.

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When asked about the inclusion and care of Muslim sexual minority L, which is who is an imam and one of the funder of the mosque, responded to me.

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I quote, There are two things. First, that within the mosque there is no discrimination to be made on the basis of somebody's sexual orientation.

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And then we also have a theological discourse that we hold on this topic.

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And so, no, being Muslim and homosexual is not a problem.

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It is an incompatible. The Koran doesn't it doesn't deal with this.

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So that's it. We also add these few logical positions that we affirm whenever necessary.

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That's it. But then deep down, it's a bit like the motto of many men or a place of women.

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Women should hold in Islam. We talk about it when it's necessary.

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But in the mosque, we don't talk about that. We really try to talk about spirituality.

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So it's pretty the same approach, actually, that we advocate with the matter of sexuality.

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We don't want to fall into feminism as much as we don't want or falling to LGBT priv indications.

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It's really the same approach that we have on both topics.

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And so these two imams in France do not wish to talk about politics in the mosque and especially not identity politics,

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as this is a major difference with the increasing mosque in the U.K., which aims at, as we've seen, two Sunter marginalised individuals in its face.

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And to better understand disease. I think we need to consider that both imams in France are converts,

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Muslim converts from a white Catholic background, and they're ready tend to talk about identity politics.

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And I think it is useful to see how they pursue migratory culture,

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which will be a culture of most native Muslims in France when describing a previous experience in Tarique cards before opening the mosque.

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L can imagine one of the funder mentions feeling uncomfortable.

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She says that there was a, quote, a mix of confusion between religion and culture, as these were Tarique, as meaning from the.

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And there was really a mix what it was controlling marked as McGreavy.

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And it really made me uncomfortable because I converted to Islam because of the appeal of this religious tradition.

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But not at all for for a form of culture in relation to a nose.

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It was really like everybody in Jeddah back was goose and minty for lunch.

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And so Kay, which is Zahos, our cofounder, said, I quote, That is to say that we are we are above converts.

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We are from a European culture, Western, which makes mixed congregation for us.

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It's almost self-evident. So here we can see that LNKD of Distance himself from Negro culture and attributes some of their practises,

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such as mixed prayers as related to their own European culture.

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So this is coherent with the findings of Oser ethnographic studies for Europe,

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where a group of Muslim converts seek what they sometimes call a church or free Islam.

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For example, Venice Sovereign Nation in the Netherlands on Michela Rogas Insulter in Spain

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conducted ethnographic research with groups of Muslim converts and natives,

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and officials at Comverse tend to distance themselves from immigrants culture and

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seek a practise of Islam in line with what they see as their own cultural values.

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So we need to ask yourself what would be and Kate, cultural values.

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And I think in France, Republican universalism is a dominant political imaginary.

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It is a legacy of the French, Lightman's and NYes. That's a foundation of French citizenship.

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And aside from the dominant political culture, from the dominant French culture,

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sorry, any ethno religious particularism is seen as belonging to the private sphere,

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while in the public sphere, only a unique and universal citizenship ought to be expressed.

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And this is upheld by Lay Tate French secularism as a separation between the state and religion,

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which makes unlost impossible any political claim on religious grounds.

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So he sees the theory, and in practise it's even more true for Islam compared to Christianity and especially capitalism, which enjoy more privileges.

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I would say compared to Islam, which is still very much seen as a region of,

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you know, an outsider kind of religion by the state and by the political elite.

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So this might explain why in arms, both L and K are reluctant to engage in identity politics,

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which offers a vast contrary to our values of universalism and refuse to address political matters in a religious context.

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That is not to said that Zafrin nationalist understanding of religiosity as outgrowth,

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quite critical of the state discourse, stigmatising women, Muslim woman wearing a veil.

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But this criticism takes place in the framework of a broader political imaginary,

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which has an impact on the way religious minorities can express themselves.

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So if we look at the work of the philosopher AbdelNaby DA, he's a strong inspiration for this mosque.

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What he's saying regarding justice and Islam is similar to the work of Islamic feminists, such as Why do the opposite?

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Banyo are saying he has no doubt that equality between men and women can be achieved in an Islamic framework,

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and it opposes rigid, fixed tradition to come back to genetics of justice against all professions.

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But his rhetoric is also very much informed by Republican universalism, creating a out on bigots and gender.

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He calls for a secular, centralised political movement where progressive Muslims would oppose obscurantism thanks to French humanist values.

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And its political imaginary has a strong impact on the way Islamic feminism develops in France.

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It is not discussed in a religious base such as inclusive mosque.

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But he's only talked about in one political organisation for Muslim woman who does not collaborate with the mosque and where solidarity between

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religious and secular organisation flourish in the UK context as a mosque and feminist organisation remains separated and isolated in France.

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Islamic feminism is just too political for inclusive mosque in France.

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So within a mosque, this politically mature nery manifest in a different understanding of inclusive V.T. incredulity from universalism.

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Whereas us and paying special attention to the most marginalised LNKD choose to ignore the question of ethnic,

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gender and sexual identities altogether.

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This is not without consequence consequences on the way pastoral care is fought off and conducted in the mosque.

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So now I want to look at the care practises within this mosque and this mosque have to come on the points when it comes to pastoral care.

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The first is that they focus on building and sharing knowledge, which is relevant with the experience of that congregation.

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And they do. So this is a civil point in a democratic setting, challenging traditional Iraqi education of all believers.

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And this is done for translation. Translation from Arabic to English or Arabic to French.

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An explanation regarding the historical context. During the Prophet's life and the time of the revelation.

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So to quote K one of the moment co-founder in France.

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I quote, The idea is that in a must creeley, let's say, ideal, it would be for each believer to be able,

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after some training, to turn to produce a discourse on the next hepped of the Koran on the theme.

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It is really is a slow cheque. I would say almost Democratic actually said if we want to,

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that we want to alight because I liked because in our eyes it is what Islam was about initially.

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An M an imam and co-founder in the U.K. says, I quote.

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No dates, people don't go to imams just to talk.

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Just to ask if they can do something, to ask if it's allowed in the Koran, say look online and read for themselves.

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The imams role is increasingly about pastoral care and counselling.

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And for many moms are important because women are of the community.

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I think trancing meme's or you mentally identify as queer is important to the democratisation of being an imam.

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That's what it's all about. So, however, it is a different conception of increasingly to bring different practises of care.

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Why does the mosque and friends focus on generic religious practises discussing appropriate ways of fasting and praying in the sermons for everybody?

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The imams at a mosque in the U.K. tends to focus on social issues and often address issues relevant to specific experience of minorities.

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Pastoral care in the UK is being based on empirical evidence of what Krimsky women need,

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and I will therefore focus Norns of various practises designed for queer Muslim woman and Luskin's UK.

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The funders have conducted an ethnographic research from 2001 to 2005 and Benefit Qaid

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from the continued involvement of Krzeminski Woman from diverse backgrounds in the mosque.

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Pastoral care relies on the dialectic between the religious knowledge of the imams and the experiential knowledge of Krzeminski,

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a woman who attends Mass. So just to give you an example.

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This is what Vy is saying vs a member of the mosque.

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And here she explains what change in our understanding of the scriptures and Hogue's.

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This is relevant to our experience as a Krimsky woman. I quote.

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I knew what I was doing was sinful from a Koranic point of view,

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because the Quran suggests that homosexuality, Islam is based on the story of the prophet looked right.

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So I knew it was sinful, but I wasn't going to justify my action and change.

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What's the current saying, if that makes sense? So for me, I would rather see him sinful than say the Koran is wrong.

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That was very important for me is to not alter was.

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The Koran is saying the workshops have helped me try to make sense of some of that, and that's altered some of my views that I had previously about.

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What does the Arabic actually say? Literally not having Arabic as a language that I was familiar with.

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I was I was in through prayers, et cetera.

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I think those are those that have that knowledge about Arabic language in the workshop helps to interpret what the Koran is trying to get.

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That's if that makes sense. So and that's at stage now where I'm kind of taking a step back and saying, well, actually, I didn't think about that.

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I didn't think about the fact that's the story of prophet. It was not actually directly linked to lesbians, you know, or men having consensual sex.

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You know, that sort of valuations of some of the language and the linguistic that go now with it.

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I'm starting to appreciate, you know. So sharing's a few logical work of Islamic feminist,

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but also just considering the semantic complexities of Arabic can be especially of help for

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chromatin women who often feel guilt and shame over their personal aspirations and desires.

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But this requires to take into consideration their personal struggle.

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In the story of the Prophet looked the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

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Punished by God for deep depravity is the dominant understanding in the Muslim world is a condemnation of homosexuality.

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As men engage in sexual acts with other men, however,

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such as Scott Cogo have argued that his intent crosses were not consensual and understand this

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as a condemnation of rape and its zis interpretations that he is referring to in this quote.

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So is a mosque in the U.K., Muslim women can express himself during monthly feminist discussion group,

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whereas I can read extract of the Koran and edits and analyse their relevance in light of that personal experience.

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The Koran is often translated using gender neutral pronouns to refer to God.

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God is engender it is not a patriarchal figure anymore.

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And many women express relief at the idea that God did not have a specific gender which would make male domination a divine principle.

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The idea of an to go is also coherent with some system tests which are shared in the mosque,

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especially if Arabie, fearing of a universe, duplicity of the soul.

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All living creatures sharing one soul regardless of gender. It must also occasionally asked workshops and Evans sexual health workshops, for example,

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addressing the vulnerability of sexual minorities in terms of mental and physical

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health and using the Koran to promote medical treatments and fight prejudice.

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For example, prejudice against sexual disease. They are HIV positive people.

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It can also be a space to open up, but expand Yancy's of abuse,

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sexual abuse in a community where these topics are not discussed and subject women to feeling shame and guilt on their own.

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Most of the time. They are also LGBT plus family workshops, which aim at preserving family bonds by sharing literature.

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Only Islam and homosexuality. So resources that mention I mean, why do its work?

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And Scott Cadel's work mainly and challenge the Dominion control narrative of coming out because in Western context,

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coming out as clear as gay as lesbian is celebrated more and more and is understood as a form of queer activism in itself.

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And so they are trying to raise awareness that it is not mandatory.

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Coming out is not mandatory and that in some context it can be dangerous and harmful.

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So they are trying to put some distance with this kind of normalisation of coming out.

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They also recognised during this workshop and value queer families and queer Solidarity's as a different kind of kinship.

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So here we can drones the work of Saddam Mahmud's analysis of the mosque movement in Egypt.

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Reza discussed just best our fury of bloodily in speech performances as a condition of agency,

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signifying, interestingly, thanks to pictures of gnomes.

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So I would say that it isn't really between complying with or rebelling against one normative structure because these mass

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cosmopolis mosque cosmopolitan environments and they are a wide range of different normative structure at work here.

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But as men would fear rise and body as a medium rather than a sign of herself, a medium for which a pious self comes to be realised.

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And Mahmud especially takes the example of modesty and shyness who are being performed for wearing a veil

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and behaving in a shy way to then be internalised in constructing a pious self as a pious Muslim woman.

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I would argue that we can consider as a collective body of the congregation,

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as a medium for which collective virtuousness comes to be realised through inclusive, to bring to someone of a different gender.

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Getting conscious with your gesture because you're following the lead of a Shiite men while being silly,

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our performances seek to accommodate the awesomeness rather than rejecting it.

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One can train themself to accept an otherwise, you know, unusual presence.

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Try new religious performances and minorities who usually cannot access Prager's spaces at all.

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Get a chance to because to become pious subjects so makes prayers are not in appropriate ways of worshipping anymore,

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but to the contrary ways of worshipping in an inclusive manner that makes this base open to all Muslim.

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What one of the most funder's in the UK calls, I quote, a true Islamic utopia.

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So we can consider participation with these events and engagement and pastoral care as technologies

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of the self promising woman constricts himself as part of a career in social imaginary.

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We're navigating that identity outside of it on the March meeting allows them to build solidarity with us are much analysed.

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Muslim individuals caring for the margin is seen as FASFA, as full feeling sorry,

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a dirty of the duty of protection and strengthening of the goomar to larger and wider Muslim community against all systems of oppression.

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That queerness is fully encompassed within the Muslim ness and from a coherent identity.

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So, no, I just want to look at the obstacles that this woman face.

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And interestingly enough, both mosque in France and the U.K. face the same kind of obstacles.

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So funding a mosque, creating a space and caring for others requires certain resources that can be hard to get.

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And in line, we have an obstacles that many women face while caring for Ozawa's in modern society.

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The accumulation of duties between a professional life,

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the family life and the spiritual life makes it harder for them to find enough time to perform the task.

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So I supposed to perform so in France and then came manage that mosque on their own.

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And I quote Hell here, it's complicated because one starting to have too many things to do.

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In fact, yeah, I tend to say that I can several jobs, namely teacher Puji.

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Candidate Emam. Yeah, it's pretty complicated to manage.

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And it's even an obstacle actually. Very much so.

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So the lack of time represent an obstacle to the development of the mosque, but also to their personal lives and asking explains here, I quote.

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I know that now, if I wanted, I wouldn't be able to have children.

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Clearly, I have no time left. So if I had children, I would need to remove something from my schedule.

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So then there are solutions.

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It could be for us to make the organisation grow beets so that other people could take responsibilities and discharges of certain tasks.

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But it could be. And I don't think it could happen without it working part time only.

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Is a is the UK, a small group of women must manage the mosque, which allows them more time and more support.

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However, while I was visiting the mosque, they sometimes add to interim their prayers to make sure the event was running smoothly during.

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If there is a responsibility of preparing food, giving out information to the congregation,

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cleaning the dishes, leading the prayers of fell on the same group of women.

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So they are absolutely up to the task. But as a participant often says, I quote, I need more men to have my back.

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And in that sense, this feminist mosque spaces, which sometimes women, but where it's a reason,

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clearly an increasing call for Muslim men, including Krimsky main men, to engage in solidarity with women.

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Imam. Another obstacle is to the difficulty to find suitable spaces in big city centres,

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a space which would be big enough for that growing congregation and accessible to disabled individuals.

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Accessible spaces are rare and a bit more expensive.

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And in France, for example, they often have to conduct a prayer in two separate stations because the space is not big enough for everybody.

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Their ambition for the future is a common ambition as well, which will be to find a permanent, stable bidding for the mosque because that's immediate.

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They are each in your own mosque to build lasting solidarities and partnership within one neighbourhood.

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And I think it would be also a way to see themselves as a mosque,

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like all of the mosque, you know, a normal kind of mosque to to have a stable building.

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And that's a nice aspiration for a lot of women actually in this movement right now.

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So in conclusion, this two must be different,

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different understanding of incredulity due to the different positionally T of their funders and to the different political imagineering,

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they respond to this trigger different practises of pastoral care.

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January in France and focussed on lived experiences of individuals that's emerging in the United Kingdom.

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These practises of care are part of the constitution of queer amnesty movements, subjectivity that Coronis allows them to get solidarity with.

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Obama's claim that's a margin and therefore an ideal of a true Islamic dystopia.

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This observation need to be noons. So because, as I said earlier, Zimm Moleskins, the UK is seven years old, then sends a mosque in France.

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Muslim Rumanians France also faced a more offensive political context,

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which in Paris and Virginian's speech performances and therefore Esack practises of care they need to be supported.

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And this will be my references. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Benjamin.

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I really enjoyed your talk enormously because it raises so many more general questions.

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Actually, to me personally, this is completely new and fascinating and it just shows you the dynamics of how people,

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Muslims outside the Middle East or any other Muslim countries are actually engaging with the current issues and the change of generations.

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Different perspective. That's fascinating. And I wish you very good luck finishing your research and doing your APHC.

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Thank you so much. And for those who are again, less familiar with our seminars or seminars or disturb more finished,

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we usually have two seminars each term on weeks three and six of the Oxford academic term,

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and it will be advertised and sent out to all of you on the mailing list.

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And we hope to see some of you the following term and very soon in the flesh.

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I hope you know, because we don't we can't go on forever like this.

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But but it also has as its upside in that it has brought people, for example, from South Africa to participate.

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So very much. Maybe we can run them in parallel, both in the flesh.

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All right. But, Benjamin, thank you so much and wish you good luck.

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Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody, for participating.