Well, I think while we are waiting for everybody who would like to join us to do so.
I will say a few words about our seminars on women's rights in the Middle East, which started in 2009.
For those of you who don't know these seminars and their idea was to actually find out more about what recent research is going on,
contemporary research in relation to women's rights in the Middle East,
as opposed to just repeating what we already know about women's rights in the least, because a lot of things have changed.
And as part of that, we also have included an immediate easterns in the diaspora or from the Muslim warning widely.
The other aspect which we have also covered is this a question of looking also at some historical context as well as contemporary want to give
it actually proper framework to what in the past has been some women who had probably been activists in the field of Muslim women's rights.
So we are now assisting those and now we're in the 11th year of doing so.
And it is a particularly great pleasure for me to introduce our speaker today.
Benjamin de Gaulle was currently a PHC candidate in sociology at the School of Advanced Studies in Social Sciences in Paris.
He's also a member of the Centre for Studies in Social Sciences and Religion at the Senate race, which is the on last year.
Now there are whole show scientific centre for Studies in social sciences of religion in modern countries,
and he's cutting it currently a member of Missal from says in Oxford, Benjamin, who is also a member of the Jewish Muslim Research Network.
Benjamin's research is mainly situated in this intersection of social sciences, of religion, gender studies and queer studies.
And it is looking at their initiatives designed by Muslim communities themselves to promote gender equality within an Islamic framework.
And he also has got a particular interest in democracy and secularism and the way politics,
the impact on lived experiences of Muslim minorities on the ground.
At his presentation today is of particular interest to me, especially because this is an issue which has actually been very addressed, very little.
I don't know of very many similar studies of how you're looking at the context of
the mosque and the queer studies and and a comparison between France and the UK.
So the title of Benjamin's presentation is God Does Not Discriminate.
Inclusive Mosques, Politics in France and the United Kingdom.
Benjamin, please go ahead. You have got 45 minutes. All right.
Thank you very much. Thanks for allowing me to be part of this and read it today.
I would just share my point. So, no, you should see my slides is outright.
Yes. OK, perfect. So, yes.
Thank you, everybody, for frightened things. This seminar. These studies I am presenting today is part of my ongoing research on practises of
inclusion and care by and for queer Muslims groups in both France and the United Kingdom,
which is a study that started in 2000 and 18.
It relies on the Rafie data collected during moments of participant observation during social and religious events,
organising inclusive musk and queer Muslim organisations. And there is also a similar structure.
Interviews with religious leaders and organisation members.
I am especially interested in feminist ethics of care.
As theorised by John Tronto and every night come Glenn Beyond the Secret,
our approach to Care I research health care can be performed in a religious framework in
contemporary Muslim communities in line with what's a South African that's called our class.
Classing as your eyes, as pastoral care. And as Janet Julie argued, in light of the Islamic ethics of justice,
they are political Solidarity's to be built between secular feminist and Muslim communities
to emphasise the role of care as necessary to assist a noble and flourishing society.
So as he sees, this would be my theoretical framework. Today, I want to focus on two inclusive mosques, one in France and one in the United Kingdom.
And how is the approach care by inclusive mosque?
I mean a mosque welcoming believers in Mink's congregations regardless of their gender, sexuality, ethnicity or even social status.
These bases especially care for Muslim marginalised within the larger Muslim community.
There are a few more inclusive spaces in each country, in France and the United Kingdom.
But these are as a two must put spaces. So far as these last few years, Xao Bufferin by women and interesting Lizzies women,
all aimed at responding to the needs expressed by the religious community.
So similarly,
two Turkish women is a women in most movements that may not talked about during the last seminar as these women witnessed and experienced themselves,
inequalities of access to religious spaces, they say, finds a woman's room of their most often dirty, difficult to access.
They experience so no woman who experience difficulty to engage in religious rituals
and to connect proves the divine because of a lack of appropriate facilities.
And because a women's room. Often that's the end of a set of stairs.
Elderly woman in D.C. Both women have difficulties to access these spaces, especially,
so it's because of all these difficulties that these spaces have been created in the first place.
So this is a really important dimension of this mosque as they emerge from a sense of
responsibility shared by Muslim woman to accommodate and care for marginalised Muslims,
for women, but also for other groups. And in that sense, these women have the same rationale as more conservative Muslim woman.
I am thinking of ethnographic studies conducted by John and Julie in France and Germany or Sonya Contracter in the United Kingdom on Orthodox
Muslim woman groups who were sceptical of feminism and focussed preferred to focus on their role on the roles they could play for their community,
on their duties rather than their individual rights.
And in each case, for both feminist groups and more orthodox group of women, it's a sense of responsibility which always triggers that action.
So we're going to look at the best talker, different for queer Muslim woman especially.
Yes. I'm so sorry to interrupt you. I meant to ask people, please ask your questions as we go along so we can then address them off.
So that's finished. Sorry. Eventually. I have not mentioned. Please go at.
No reason. So, yes, I as I was saying, we're going to cancel testimony.
Can't develop especially for Christmas with most.
Just to be specific, as a lot of people may know, here is the word Craig used to be an insult against people,
Priscu of deaths, sexually deviant in English, which has since been reappropriated by sexual minorities globally.
It is mainly used in English speaking context. So in France, women would tend to use other words to define themselves, such as lesbian or transgender.
But in the U.K. is the word queer is quite popular amongst Muslim woman.
And I think especially because he does not refer to a particular gender or sexuality.
It enables women to define themselves outside of a more normative framework.
Why remaining unspecific about Sarah Purdy's, about their gender, about their sexuality.
And that's such I think it's resonates with an aesthetic value of modesty.
So in this presentation, I will remain unspecific on purpose when it comes to the name of the participants as an image of the
organisations involved and the geographical location so as to protect the participants privacy.
These two mosque above, including the Zavitz, slightly different atolls.
I'm going to develop that idea later on. But first, I just want to give you a bit of background on the East story about this mosque.
So is he in inclosing?
Mosque in France emerge from a small community locally, which has progressively been building up on social media through a Facebook page.
The two founders are to enter a sexual woman who used to go to another inquisitive mosque which had been funded by a gay imam in Paris in 2010.
This is the first mosque has since been clubs and these woman's and opened their own inclusive mosque in September 2019.
So why comparing this to a mosque?
We need to keep in mind that the French mosque is actually a young mosque, kissed a very recent project in the United Kingdom.
As a woman and more time to attempt at practises and to, you know, get feedback from that congregation.
So, Zain, because a mosque in London has been funded in 2012 by a group of Chrome was a woman who were previously involved in the LGBT Muslim
organisation and which were also involved in academic research projects regarding the needs of queer Muslim women in the United Kingdom,
findings that must resources online and in real life, where mainly aimed at men, at queer Muslim men,
anxiety, there was a need for more inclusive space for vulnerable Muslim woman.
They created a mosque based on the principle of radical in Christianity.
So a common pungency story of this mosque so far is that as a personal experience of career,
Muslims are always at the root of these initiatives because even in this case of France,
the experience of as a gay imam, informed and inspire, was a project out of the current mosque.
So the question I'm trying to answer today is, oh, is pastoral care being developed for Chrom Whistlin women in if mosques?
And we're going to go through three different key bombs.
The first one is we're going to look at some different understandings that this mosque of inclusive team,
which is very much informed by different political imagineering, is an influenza kind of pastoral care, which is being provided INSS spaces.
In a second part,
we're going to look more closely at the care practises within the mosque and they participate in constructing the subjectivity of Muslim woman.
And in the last hour, we're going to look at the obstacles says these women are facing while creating and developing their mosque.
And very quickly, that ambition for the future. So is the United Kingdom, is it intrusive?
Musk embraces an Islamic feminism, which is heavily influenced by the work of I mean, why do it?
And they find it's inclusive. As radical, inclusive. I will not talk about Savides sort of Islamic feminism,
which are being developed globally because it's not really is a goal of this presentation and who take too long.
What I am interested in, in this presentation is our particular kind of Islamic feminism,
which will be a feminist Islamic feminism, sorry, promoted by I mean, we're doomed.
And sisters in Islam manifest itself and is being implemented in a grassroots organisation in a local mosque in the United Kingdom.
So there has been an epistemological shift in the work of I mean, what do these last 20 years?
She previously understood women as part of the binary between men and woman.
And within an eight or normative framework where men and women at complementary qualities and fraud's to the year 2000,
what would progressively started considering gender as more Frade and gender as a category of and is conceptually allowed to
move away from complementarity of the sexes and compulsory heterosexuality to give room to what she calls sexual diversity.
It is visible in the literature she produces, but also in our discourse.
And in addition to whether it's out, there is also the influence of the colonial studies,
which are very present in the discourse of the mosque members.
So women running the mosque are characterised by a strong cultural and educational capital.
So our highly educated peers deliver most of the time and often identify compulsory atter of sexuality
as the produce of modern bioplastics systematically imposed on Muslim society through colonisation.
So therefore, critiques of colonisation and Aitor on the mighty V.T. often go hand-in-hand in the discourse of this mosque.
We can better understand the epistemological shift in the work of do it by
looking at a speech she gave ING's Inclusive Moleskins the UK in September 2017.
And this is how she introduced her speech. I quote. Because I am personally located in this as a cis gender female,
I have not vetted myself for every single word about whether or not I am equally intrusive in terms of the location from the LGBTQ community.
And that is also Konsta, contextually significant, I think,
because working for what we used to call gender reform was primarily within the context of their own maturity.
I think it's important for me to let you know that I might slip into a certain presumption of veteran immaturity,
because that is a way in which the gender movement was shaped. But it is not where it is finished.
So this can explain the rationale of the mosque of radical incredulity, the responsibility to care for the community is extended to sexual minorities.
Amongst are ostracised groups was identities and specific position that issues are taken into account.
And you can see in this text on the right, which promotes an Evans of the mosque, I quote, All are welcome.
And we sometimes the voices of Muslims who are women, non binary, gender, queer,
black and disabled especially so populations which are on the margins and who have difficulties to access religious spaces in the UK especially.
So Roger Clinton credibility extends beyond gender and sexuality.
Participant can share experience of being a marginalised minority, Weaving's and Muslim community.
However, this shared experience does not mean there is no existing prejudices between the individuals in this mosque.
If we consider the experience of being who is on the left,
here is an utter or sexual sej under a man who has been occasionally leading the prayers and giving sermons on Fridays in these settings us, I quote.
So I wasn't necessarily at the increasing mosque because of his gender politics at the beginning, such as seemed like a nice addition for me.
What was more important was its non-sectarian nature. And that's because even though I grew up in a Middle Eastern country, I'm not from there.
And in fact, I belong to a religious minority which falls under one of the Shia schools of Islam.
And so in the Middle Eastern country.
And this is something that I contraries speak to openly about Zehr, is that my community is not allowed to practise freely.
Because there are restrictions on Shia Muslims practising in that country.
And so because of that, like I own race, that is a cute sort of sense that there was this part of me that I wasn't sharing.
So even though I would lead prayer in university, for example, most of my friends didn't know that I was Shia.
And so that's not in fact, I also like so a lot of anti Shia sentiment being openly shared.
And so because of that, I couldn't, in a sense, come out as Shia easer.
So I think a similar vocabulary of aiding and not coming out is interesting in itself
as it's triggered to be research for an inquisitive space when you move to the UK.
So you lived in the UK for four years. And it's especially interesting to compare this to what being a queer Muslim woman with a Sydney background
to say about the presence of Shia Muslim in light of her own experience as part of a sexual minority.
And I quote, There are some forms that I have recently found out of Shiite ism, which for me is slightly concerning,
but I'm not trying to put too much focus on it, because if I do that, then I feel lands of personal words,
if I'm trying to do with myself, is going down with the roots that I am familiar with in terms of the judgement,
the, you know, having an opinion and then just forcing it on everyone else kind of thing.
So I'm trying to keep an open mind, is what I'm trying to say, because what I want to take out of this experience is a good that comes out of it,
which is really just folding on creating connexion with people's Atami that have similar views.
And that's how hope and being vulnerable.
So the mosque is out for best with incredulity is not only postulated or photo if it is performed despite prejudices,
sometimes Muslims who have different practises get together and engage in
alternative practises in Shia or Sufi rituals to express Vivus way of being Muslim,
ways of practising that they wouldn't necessarily be exposed to Exell local tradition of mosque or at home, especially share rituals that matter.
So women's in because it musk in the U.K. follow an genetics of justice,
seeming out to more conservative Islamic movement but affected by an epistemological shift.
As we've seen in terms of gender and sexual age, politics as fear rise by Islamic feminist cutters.
Beyond this, an ethos of radical incredulity is being applied, which Allen West came from different backgrounds to joins a community.
Things are very different in France. Actually, it is interesting mosque in France.
When asked about the inclusion and care of Muslim sexual minority L, which is who is an imam and one of the funder of the mosque, responded to me.
I quote, There are two things. First, that within the mosque there is no discrimination to be made on the basis of somebody's sexual orientation.
And then we also have a theological discourse that we hold on this topic.
And so, no, being Muslim and homosexual is not a problem.
It is an incompatible. The Koran doesn't it doesn't deal with this.
So that's it. We also add these few logical positions that we affirm whenever necessary.
That's it. But then deep down, it's a bit like the motto of many men or a place of women.
Women should hold in Islam. We talk about it when it's necessary.
But in the mosque, we don't talk about that. We really try to talk about spirituality.
So it's pretty the same approach, actually, that we advocate with the matter of sexuality.
We don't want to fall into feminism as much as we don't want or falling to LGBT priv indications.
It's really the same approach that we have on both topics.
And so these two imams in France do not wish to talk about politics in the mosque and especially not identity politics,
as this is a major difference with the increasing mosque in the U.K., which aims at, as we've seen, two Sunter marginalised individuals in its face.
And to better understand disease. I think we need to consider that both imams in France are converts,
Muslim converts from a white Catholic background, and they're ready tend to talk about identity politics.
And I think it is useful to see how they pursue migratory culture,
which will be a culture of most native Muslims in France when describing a previous experience in Tarique cards before opening the mosque.
L can imagine one of the funder mentions feeling uncomfortable.
She says that there was a, quote, a mix of confusion between religion and culture, as these were Tarique, as meaning from the.
And there was really a mix what it was controlling marked as McGreavy.
And it really made me uncomfortable because I converted to Islam because of the appeal of this religious tradition.
But not at all for for a form of culture in relation to a nose.
It was really like everybody in Jeddah back was goose and minty for lunch.
And so Kay, which is Zahos, our cofounder, said, I quote, That is to say that we are we are above converts.
We are from a European culture, Western, which makes mixed congregation for us.
It's almost self-evident. So here we can see that LNKD of Distance himself from Negro culture and attributes some of their practises,
such as mixed prayers as related to their own European culture.
So this is coherent with the findings of Oser ethnographic studies for Europe,
where a group of Muslim converts seek what they sometimes call a church or free Islam.
For example, Venice Sovereign Nation in the Netherlands on Michela Rogas Insulter in Spain
conducted ethnographic research with groups of Muslim converts and natives,
and officials at Comverse tend to distance themselves from immigrants culture and
seek a practise of Islam in line with what they see as their own cultural values.
So we need to ask yourself what would be and Kate, cultural values.
And I think in France, Republican universalism is a dominant political imaginary.
It is a legacy of the French, Lightman's and NYes. That's a foundation of French citizenship.
And aside from the dominant political culture, from the dominant French culture,
sorry, any ethno religious particularism is seen as belonging to the private sphere,
while in the public sphere, only a unique and universal citizenship ought to be expressed.
And this is upheld by Lay Tate French secularism as a separation between the state and religion,
which makes unlost impossible any political claim on religious grounds.
So he sees the theory, and in practise it's even more true for Islam compared to Christianity and especially capitalism, which enjoy more privileges.
I would say compared to Islam, which is still very much seen as a region of,
you know, an outsider kind of religion by the state and by the political elite.
So this might explain why in arms, both L and K are reluctant to engage in identity politics,
which offers a vast contrary to our values of universalism and refuse to address political matters in a religious context.
That is not to said that Zafrin nationalist understanding of religiosity as outgrowth,
quite critical of the state discourse, stigmatising women, Muslim woman wearing a veil.
But this criticism takes place in the framework of a broader political imaginary,
which has an impact on the way religious minorities can express themselves.
So if we look at the work of the philosopher AbdelNaby DA, he's a strong inspiration for this mosque.
What he's saying regarding justice and Islam is similar to the work of Islamic feminists, such as Why do the opposite?
Banyo are saying he has no doubt that equality between men and women can be achieved in an Islamic framework,
and it opposes rigid, fixed tradition to come back to genetics of justice against all professions.
But his rhetoric is also very much informed by Republican universalism, creating a out on bigots and gender.
He calls for a secular, centralised political movement where progressive Muslims would oppose obscurantism thanks to French humanist values.
And its political imaginary has a strong impact on the way Islamic feminism develops in France.
It is not discussed in a religious base such as inclusive mosque.
But he's only talked about in one political organisation for Muslim woman who does not collaborate with the mosque and where solidarity between
religious and secular organisation flourish in the UK context as a mosque and feminist organisation remains separated and isolated in France.
Islamic feminism is just too political for inclusive mosque in France.
So within a mosque, this politically mature nery manifest in a different understanding of inclusive V.T. incredulity from universalism.
Whereas us and paying special attention to the most marginalised LNKD choose to ignore the question of ethnic,
gender and sexual identities altogether.
This is not without consequence consequences on the way pastoral care is fought off and conducted in the mosque.
So now I want to look at the care practises within this mosque and this mosque have to come on the points when it comes to pastoral care.
The first is that they focus on building and sharing knowledge, which is relevant with the experience of that congregation.
And they do. So this is a civil point in a democratic setting, challenging traditional Iraqi education of all believers.
And this is done for translation. Translation from Arabic to English or Arabic to French.
An explanation regarding the historical context. During the Prophet's life and the time of the revelation.
So to quote K one of the moment co-founder in France.
I quote, The idea is that in a must creeley, let's say, ideal, it would be for each believer to be able,
after some training, to turn to produce a discourse on the next hepped of the Koran on the theme.
It is really is a slow cheque. I would say almost Democratic actually said if we want to,
that we want to alight because I liked because in our eyes it is what Islam was about initially.
An M an imam and co-founder in the U.K. says, I quote.
No dates, people don't go to imams just to talk.
Just to ask if they can do something, to ask if it's allowed in the Koran, say look online and read for themselves.
The imams role is increasingly about pastoral care and counselling.
And for many moms are important because women are of the community.
I think trancing meme's or you mentally identify as queer is important to the democratisation of being an imam.
That's what it's all about. So, however, it is a different conception of increasingly to bring different practises of care.
Why does the mosque and friends focus on generic religious practises discussing appropriate ways of fasting and praying in the sermons for everybody?
The imams at a mosque in the U.K. tends to focus on social issues and often address issues relevant to specific experience of minorities.
Pastoral care in the UK is being based on empirical evidence of what Krimsky women need,
and I will therefore focus Norns of various practises designed for queer Muslim woman and Luskin's UK.
The funders have conducted an ethnographic research from 2001 to 2005 and Benefit Qaid
from the continued involvement of Krzeminski Woman from diverse backgrounds in the mosque.
Pastoral care relies on the dialectic between the religious knowledge of the imams and the experiential knowledge of Krzeminski,
a woman who attends Mass. So just to give you an example.
This is what Vy is saying vs a member of the mosque.
And here she explains what change in our understanding of the scriptures and Hogue's.
This is relevant to our experience as a Krimsky woman. I quote.
I knew what I was doing was sinful from a Koranic point of view,
because the Quran suggests that homosexuality, Islam is based on the story of the prophet looked right.
So I knew it was sinful, but I wasn't going to justify my action and change.
What's the current saying, if that makes sense? So for me, I would rather see him sinful than say the Koran is wrong.
That was very important for me is to not alter was.
The Koran is saying the workshops have helped me try to make sense of some of that, and that's altered some of my views that I had previously about.
What does the Arabic actually say? Literally not having Arabic as a language that I was familiar with.
I was I was in through prayers, et cetera.
I think those are those that have that knowledge about Arabic language in the workshop helps to interpret what the Koran is trying to get.
That's if that makes sense. So and that's at stage now where I'm kind of taking a step back and saying, well, actually, I didn't think about that.
I didn't think about the fact that's the story of prophet. It was not actually directly linked to lesbians, you know, or men having consensual sex.
You know, that sort of valuations of some of the language and the linguistic that go now with it.
I'm starting to appreciate, you know. So sharing's a few logical work of Islamic feminist,
but also just considering the semantic complexities of Arabic can be especially of help for
chromatin women who often feel guilt and shame over their personal aspirations and desires.
But this requires to take into consideration their personal struggle.
In the story of the Prophet looked the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Punished by God for deep depravity is the dominant understanding in the Muslim world is a condemnation of homosexuality.
As men engage in sexual acts with other men, however,
such as Scott Cogo have argued that his intent crosses were not consensual and understand this
as a condemnation of rape and its zis interpretations that he is referring to in this quote.
So is a mosque in the U.K., Muslim women can express himself during monthly feminist discussion group,
whereas I can read extract of the Koran and edits and analyse their relevance in light of that personal experience.
The Koran is often translated using gender neutral pronouns to refer to God.
God is engender it is not a patriarchal figure anymore.
And many women express relief at the idea that God did not have a specific gender which would make male domination a divine principle.
The idea of an to go is also coherent with some system tests which are shared in the mosque,
especially if Arabie, fearing of a universe, duplicity of the soul.
All living creatures sharing one soul regardless of gender. It must also occasionally asked workshops and Evans sexual health workshops, for example,
addressing the vulnerability of sexual minorities in terms of mental and physical
health and using the Koran to promote medical treatments and fight prejudice.
For example, prejudice against sexual disease. They are HIV positive people.
It can also be a space to open up, but expand Yancy's of abuse,
sexual abuse in a community where these topics are not discussed and subject women to feeling shame and guilt on their own.
Most of the time. They are also LGBT plus family workshops, which aim at preserving family bonds by sharing literature.
Only Islam and homosexuality. So resources that mention I mean, why do its work?
And Scott Cadel's work mainly and challenge the Dominion control narrative of coming out because in Western context,
coming out as clear as gay as lesbian is celebrated more and more and is understood as a form of queer activism in itself.
And so they are trying to raise awareness that it is not mandatory.
Coming out is not mandatory and that in some context it can be dangerous and harmful.
So they are trying to put some distance with this kind of normalisation of coming out.
They also recognised during this workshop and value queer families and queer Solidarity's as a different kind of kinship.
So here we can drones the work of Saddam Mahmud's analysis of the mosque movement in Egypt.
Reza discussed just best our fury of bloodily in speech performances as a condition of agency,
signifying, interestingly, thanks to pictures of gnomes.
So I would say that it isn't really between complying with or rebelling against one normative structure because these mass
cosmopolis mosque cosmopolitan environments and they are a wide range of different normative structure at work here.
But as men would fear rise and body as a medium rather than a sign of herself, a medium for which a pious self comes to be realised.
And Mahmud especially takes the example of modesty and shyness who are being performed for wearing a veil
and behaving in a shy way to then be internalised in constructing a pious self as a pious Muslim woman.
I would argue that we can consider as a collective body of the congregation,
as a medium for which collective virtuousness comes to be realised through inclusive, to bring to someone of a different gender.
Getting conscious with your gesture because you're following the lead of a Shiite men while being silly,
our performances seek to accommodate the awesomeness rather than rejecting it.
One can train themself to accept an otherwise, you know, unusual presence.
Try new religious performances and minorities who usually cannot access Prager's spaces at all.
Get a chance to because to become pious subjects so makes prayers are not in appropriate ways of worshipping anymore,
but to the contrary ways of worshipping in an inclusive manner that makes this base open to all Muslim.
What one of the most funder's in the UK calls, I quote, a true Islamic utopia.
So we can consider participation with these events and engagement and pastoral care as technologies
of the self promising woman constricts himself as part of a career in social imaginary.
We're navigating that identity outside of it on the March meeting allows them to build solidarity with us are much analysed.
Muslim individuals caring for the margin is seen as FASFA, as full feeling sorry,
a dirty of the duty of protection and strengthening of the goomar to larger and wider Muslim community against all systems of oppression.
That queerness is fully encompassed within the Muslim ness and from a coherent identity.
So, no, I just want to look at the obstacles that this woman face.
And interestingly enough, both mosque in France and the U.K. face the same kind of obstacles.
So funding a mosque, creating a space and caring for others requires certain resources that can be hard to get.
And in line, we have an obstacles that many women face while caring for Ozawa's in modern society.
The accumulation of duties between a professional life,
the family life and the spiritual life makes it harder for them to find enough time to perform the task.
So I supposed to perform so in France and then came manage that mosque on their own.
And I quote Hell here, it's complicated because one starting to have too many things to do.
In fact, yeah, I tend to say that I can several jobs, namely teacher Puji.
Candidate Emam. Yeah, it's pretty complicated to manage.
And it's even an obstacle actually. Very much so.
So the lack of time represent an obstacle to the development of the mosque, but also to their personal lives and asking explains here, I quote.
I know that now, if I wanted, I wouldn't be able to have children.
Clearly, I have no time left. So if I had children, I would need to remove something from my schedule.
So then there are solutions.
It could be for us to make the organisation grow beets so that other people could take responsibilities and discharges of certain tasks.
But it could be. And I don't think it could happen without it working part time only.
Is a is the UK, a small group of women must manage the mosque, which allows them more time and more support.
However, while I was visiting the mosque, they sometimes add to interim their prayers to make sure the event was running smoothly during.
If there is a responsibility of preparing food, giving out information to the congregation,
cleaning the dishes, leading the prayers of fell on the same group of women.
So they are absolutely up to the task. But as a participant often says, I quote, I need more men to have my back.
And in that sense, this feminist mosque spaces, which sometimes women, but where it's a reason,
clearly an increasing call for Muslim men, including Krimsky main men, to engage in solidarity with women.
Imam. Another obstacle is to the difficulty to find suitable spaces in big city centres,
a space which would be big enough for that growing congregation and accessible to disabled individuals.
Accessible spaces are rare and a bit more expensive.
And in France, for example, they often have to conduct a prayer in two separate stations because the space is not big enough for everybody.
Their ambition for the future is a common ambition as well, which will be to find a permanent, stable bidding for the mosque because that's immediate.
They are each in your own mosque to build lasting solidarities and partnership within one neighbourhood.
And I think it would be also a way to see themselves as a mosque,
like all of the mosque, you know, a normal kind of mosque to to have a stable building.
And that's a nice aspiration for a lot of women actually in this movement right now.
So in conclusion, this two must be different,
different understanding of incredulity due to the different positionally T of their funders and to the different political imagineering,
they respond to this trigger different practises of pastoral care.
January in France and focussed on lived experiences of individuals that's emerging in the United Kingdom.
These practises of care are part of the constitution of queer amnesty movements, subjectivity that Coronis allows them to get solidarity with.
Obama's claim that's a margin and therefore an ideal of a true Islamic dystopia.
This observation need to be noons. So because, as I said earlier, Zimm Moleskins, the UK is seven years old, then sends a mosque in France.
Muslim Rumanians France also faced a more offensive political context,
which in Paris and Virginian's speech performances and therefore Esack practises of care they need to be supported.
And this will be my references. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Benjamin.
I really enjoyed your talk enormously because it raises so many more general questions.
Actually, to me personally, this is completely new and fascinating and it just shows you the dynamics of how people,
Muslims outside the Middle East or any other Muslim countries are actually engaging with the current issues and the change of generations.
Different perspective. That's fascinating. And I wish you very good luck finishing your research and doing your APHC.
Thank you so much. And for those who are again, less familiar with our seminars or seminars or disturb more finished,
we usually have two seminars each term on weeks three and six of the Oxford academic term,
and it will be advertised and sent out to all of you on the mailing list.
And we hope to see some of you the following term and very soon in the flesh.
I hope you know, because we don't we can't go on forever like this.
But but it also has as its upside in that it has brought people, for example, from South Africa to participate.
So very much. Maybe we can run them in parallel, both in the flesh.
All right. But, Benjamin, thank you so much and wish you good luck.
Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody, for participating.