1 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:13,780 Welcome everybody to what is our second seminar in our Friday seminar series here at the centre at Oxford. 2 00:00:13,780 --> 00:00:25,300 Today, we're absolutely delighted to be joined by Dr Hussain, who's going to be talking about the politics of water scarcity in the case of Jordan. 3 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:32,260 This is something that's going to last for an hour. I think Hassan is going to speak for about 25 minutes, maybe half an hour during the talk. 4 00:00:32,260 --> 00:00:36,760 You're very welcome to add questions into the chat. 5 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:42,760 Chat will be monitored by Michael Willis, who's also joining us today. 6 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,670 Let me just say a few words about Sam, 7 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:55,360 because I'm sure many of you know that the theme of this term seminar is environmental politics in the Middle East of Africa, 8 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,320 and I think it's safe to say that we have got to deal with this. 9 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:04,960 Probably the most pre-eminent scholar of environmental politics of the MENA here in Oxford, 10 00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:10,810 Hassan is currently a department lecturer in international relations in DPR. 11 00:01:10,810 --> 00:01:14,080 He's also an Oxford Martin Fellow in water diplomacy. 12 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:21,910 He's a member of the Middle East Centre, and he's the Fulford Junior Research Fellow at some of Somerville College. 13 00:01:21,910 --> 00:01:25,450 If any of you follow him on Twitter, I encourage you all to do so. 14 00:01:25,450 --> 00:01:29,590 You'll probably also know that he's also he's just recently won. 15 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:35,950 Several prises has got several new affiliations to add to his already very significant and illustrious list. 16 00:01:35,950 --> 00:01:39,850 I know that Sam has just been appointed as a fellow to the World Economic Forum, 17 00:01:39,850 --> 00:01:45,700 so really, Sam is a very, very senior and serious scholar on this topic. 18 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:48,880 Just browsing through his publication record, 19 00:01:48,880 --> 00:02:00,550 I felt very intimidated by the fact that he has already published four international peer reviewed articles in 2021 alone and published nine in 2020, 20 00:02:00,550 --> 00:02:09,040 all looking at this kind of interface between the environment, politics and questions of sustainability in the MENA region. 21 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:15,380 Just just an incredibly prolific and productive record of just enormously impressive otherwise. 22 00:02:15,380 --> 00:02:22,480 Hassan obtained his Ph.D. in international development from UEA here in the UK. 23 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:29,530 He's got numerous other affiliations. His fieldwork has been funded by really important institutions active in the region. 24 00:02:29,530 --> 00:02:34,300 I think we're really, really lucky to have him here with us today. Hassan the floor is yours. 25 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:38,510 I'm really looking forward to your talk. Thank you very much for coming and joining us. 26 00:02:38,510 --> 00:02:43,550 Thank you very much, Neal, for this very kind introduction, and thank you very much for the invitation. 27 00:02:43,550 --> 00:02:49,110 It's really a pleasure to be here today and also I'm very happy to see that, as Neal mentioned, 28 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:58,160 the Middle East Centre decided to choose the environment as a theme for these for the seminar series of this term. 29 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:03,680 I guess you can also see my presentation, so without further ado, I'll start. 30 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:14,270 So the presentation today will discuss topics around the politics of water scarcity in the case of Jordan. 31 00:03:14,270 --> 00:03:19,880 The research problem that I focus on is Jordan's water scarcity, 32 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:27,710 and I chose Jordan because he's said to be the second most water scarce country in the world and the Middle East and North Africa, 33 00:03:27,710 --> 00:03:32,540 and the MENA region is the most water scarce region in the world. 34 00:03:32,540 --> 00:03:35,420 In addition to being the second most with this great country in the world, 35 00:03:35,420 --> 00:03:41,150 Jordan has also several challenges, as we would see in today's presentation. 36 00:03:41,150 --> 00:03:49,430 Firstly, Jordan's groundwater resources are decreasing in terms of quantity and quality due to overuse and over obstruction and destruction, 37 00:03:49,430 --> 00:03:52,790 especially in the northern part of the country. 38 00:03:52,790 --> 00:04:01,070 Over 35 percent of Jordan population is formed by refugees, as we will see also, you know, sheds light. 39 00:04:01,070 --> 00:04:08,810 Over 90 percent of Jordan's food products are imported, and about 50 percent of Jordan's water supply goes to agriculture. 40 00:04:08,810 --> 00:04:16,290 So the water food nexus is quite of an important issue, and we will discuss also this topic. 41 00:04:16,290 --> 00:04:22,370 And these reasons are the reasons why I decided to to to investigate the Jordanian 42 00:04:22,370 --> 00:04:28,040 water sector and in particular the political economy of Jordan's water sector. 43 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,690 And I use the discourse analysis and the discourse of water scarcity as an entry point 44 00:04:32,690 --> 00:04:40,320 to unpack and better understand the political economy of Jordan's water resources. 45 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,840 And this research, 46 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:53,400 while obviously is contextualised in the literature of water politics and discourses of water scarcity and construction of scarcity, 47 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:59,300 is the main goal for me was to better understand the issue and the problem of water and 48 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:05,840 water scarcity in Jordan in order to try to support and bring a change of positive change, 49 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:13,880 a policy change towards a more sustainable use of water resources in Jordan. 50 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:22,730 So environmental degradation, which already mentioned groundwater resources, and there the abstraction is rapidly increasing, 51 00:05:22,730 --> 00:05:31,970 resulting in a decrease of water quality and quantity, which is impacting all the users of water resources. 52 00:05:31,970 --> 00:05:42,140 Relying on aquifers, this means mainly small farmers and the farmers of the northern part of the country of the Highlands. 53 00:05:42,140 --> 00:05:49,280 And the other aspect that we need to consider is also not only groundwater resources, but also surface water resources, 54 00:05:49,280 --> 00:06:00,860 which are used especially I mean, we will mention them, the Jordan River and the Jordan River Basin, which has been over the years. 55 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:10,340 I mean, the water of the of the Jordan River had been pumped out of the basin and also within the basin for 56 00:06:10,340 --> 00:06:17,030 especially agricultural use by all the 14 countries or most of their opinion countries in particular, 57 00:06:17,030 --> 00:06:20,600 who say Syria, Jordan and Israel. 58 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:29,720 And this has been as a result over the years inadequacies of the floor of the lower part, in particular the Jordan River, by 97 percent. 59 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:38,120 And this has also resulted in related issues, such as a decrease of the biodiversity by 50 percent and the lower. 60 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:50,750 I mean, the Jordan River is the source of water that arrives to the Dead Sea, which has consequently decreased by about one metre a year. 61 00:06:50,750 --> 00:07:01,520 And the overall, as you can see in this picture, in this slide, we have already lost about one third of the nets of the surface of the vaccine. 62 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,360 I mentioned earlier the transboundary water resources, which are key, 63 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:11,690 especially in the Middle East and for Jordan, especially in the Middle East, because most of the water resources, 64 00:07:11,690 --> 00:07:21,020 transboundary water resources in the Middle East and North Africa are originated outside of the Arab region and for Jordan are particularly important 65 00:07:21,020 --> 00:07:31,040 because 40 percent of the water resources are shared are shared with neighbouring countries and therefore given the water crisis for Jordan, 66 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:40,760 obviously transboundary water resources, which are 40 percent of Jordan as water sources and supply are very are very important, 67 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:48,270 and therefore the management and the governance of those water resources has been key over the years in this drought, 68 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:53,930 in their planning of strategies and policies for under Jordanian water sector in particular. 69 00:07:53,930 --> 00:08:00,020 In this line, we can see, I mean, a map of Jordan. We probably or know where Jordan is. 70 00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:05,870 But the interesting thing is that I highlighted the the years in which the latest 71 00:08:05,870 --> 00:08:10,760 agreements with neighbouring countries over the Shire water resources have been signed. 72 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,530 So we have in the 1987. 73 00:08:12,530 --> 00:08:20,300 So the main water resources that are shared with neighbouring countries in Jordan are the Yarmouk River in the northern part of the country, 74 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:29,660 which is also which is shared between the borderline to some extent and is shared between Syria and Jordan, 75 00:08:29,660 --> 00:08:36,020 and then Jordan and Israel in the north western part of the country. 76 00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:48,860 And the river is one of the main tributaries of the Jordan River, and the Jordan River is the second is the other transboundary river that Jordan has, 77 00:08:48,860 --> 00:08:57,860 which is shared with the Jordan River, is shared between Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Palestine and Jordan. 78 00:08:57,860 --> 00:09:06,260 But when it comes to the lower part of the Jordan River, we have Jordan, Israel and Palestine. 79 00:09:06,260 --> 00:09:15,750 And finally, we have the DC aquifer, which is the groundwater resources, non-renewable and so non-fossil in technical terms, 80 00:09:15,750 --> 00:09:20,180 the groundwater resource, which is shared between Jordan and Saudi Arabia. 81 00:09:20,180 --> 00:09:26,540 These three agreements that have been signed are important because they give clarity on and 82 00:09:26,540 --> 00:09:34,190 they provide details on how much water every country can use and also some other details, 83 00:09:34,190 --> 00:09:38,540 such as which kind of uses can these water sources to be used back? 84 00:09:38,540 --> 00:09:50,060 In particular, the 1987 agreement between Jordan and Syria on the river is very interesting because it only discusses the Yarmouk River and so the 85 00:09:50,060 --> 00:09:59,570 surface water resources without including provisions on the groundwater resources which are connected with the with the river. 86 00:09:59,570 --> 00:10:06,200 And therefore what happened over the years was that Syria and Jordan kept attacking and 87 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:11,330 accusing each other by saying that the other country was not respecting the agreement. 88 00:10:11,330 --> 00:10:15,900 And this was the reason, according to the different parties, 89 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:23,990 why Jordan was not receiving the amount of water that Jordan would have expected from the river. 90 00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:28,220 But in reality, so while Jordan was accusing Syria, 91 00:10:28,220 --> 00:10:37,850 emphasising the fact that Syria built many small dams and diverted parts of the Yarmouk River and this, according to the Jordanian officials, 92 00:10:37,850 --> 00:10:48,620 were the reasons why the flow of the Yarmouk River decreased in Syria instead emphasise that it was due to climate change and not low precipitation, 93 00:10:48,620 --> 00:10:53,480 rather than to those violations and construction of dams. 94 00:10:53,480 --> 00:11:00,800 But in reality, the latest research of a few years ago found that the main reason was that the 95 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:05,930 treaty only discussed the surface water resources without groundwater resources. 96 00:11:05,930 --> 00:11:13,400 And what Syria was doing was to use groundwater resources from the same basin, which decreased the flow of the river. 97 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:22,880 The 1994 agreement in state between Jordan and Israel is on water is part of the peace treaty between the two countries. 98 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:30,890 And so, I mean, it discussed both the surface water resources of the Yarmouk of the of the Jordan River, 99 00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:40,040 but also of the Yarmouk River, and also had provisions on on providing new types of water to Jordan. 100 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:46,070 So not from freshwater, but not from the river, such as, for instance, from this land ization. 101 00:11:46,070 --> 00:11:56,120 But the issue was, I mean, one of the issues was the financial aspect of who will pay for them producing these new water resources. 102 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:01,490 Finally, the 2015 agreement between Saudi Arabia and Jordan is quite interesting because is one of. 103 00:12:01,490 --> 00:12:09,230 Very few agreements that we have in the world on shared groundwater resources, I think they're only probably five agreements. 104 00:12:09,230 --> 00:12:18,920 And it's interesting because it discussed the uses that these two countries can make of the groundwater resources of the DRC. 105 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:28,700 And they decided that the groundwater resources of the desert can only be used for domestic or industrial domestic, but not for agriculture. 106 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:39,440 And therefore, following the 2015 agreement, as we will see large farms and agri businesses that are based in the southern part 107 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,750 of Jordan had to be closed by the Jordanian government in order to respect this 108 00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:52,100 agreement and also to make to try to shift and pump water from the southern part of the 109 00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:56,250 country to the northern part of the country where most of the population lives in. 110 00:12:56,250 --> 00:13:05,360 So our is in fact in the north and the urban. And that's where most of the population of Jordan lives. 111 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,790 In this light, we can see the water resources and how these water resources are used, 112 00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:14,900 which reflects what we were speaking about in the earlier slides. 113 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:27,080 So we can see, firstly, that the water resources in 19 in 2017, which is the the graph on the bottom left. 114 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:32,780 Shows that 59 percent of water resources in Jordan are come from surface water sources, 115 00:13:32,780 --> 00:13:42,110 so from the two rivers that I mentioned, Yarmouk and the Jordan River, as well as from the smaller Zarqa River. 116 00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:46,400 Instead, we have and then we have about 27 29 percent. 117 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:57,110 That is ground water resources. And then 14 percent treated wastewater, which has been decreasing, has been increasing in the past decades. 118 00:13:57,110 --> 00:14:01,700 However, when we compare this with the sources of water supply, 119 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:07,400 we can see that there's a bit of a mismatch because we can see that most of their water resources are being used for. 120 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:17,840 The water supply in Jordan are coming from groundwater resources and only 33 percent from surface and 13 percent from treated wastewater. 121 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:23,450 I mean, No. 14 percent. But the interesting thing is that most of the water sources that are being used 122 00:14:23,450 --> 00:14:27,870 there with the supply comes from for the water supply comes from groundwater. 123 00:14:27,870 --> 00:14:34,880 And the reason behind this is that as we saw, most of the surface water resources are shadowy neighbouring countries. 124 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,130 So there are treaties and agreements that regulate how much water Jordan can use. 125 00:14:40,130 --> 00:14:44,000 And therefore it's easier politically for Jordan, given the increasing demand, 126 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:54,560 as we would see to ensure water security and provide water to all citizens by overusing and over extraction, 127 00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:01,760 extracting their groundwater resources across the country. So not only from the DRC, from the South, but also from the northern part of the country, 128 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,680 resulting in a decrease in the quality and quantity of these aquifers. 129 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:17,570 So in the short term, it's probably a solution, but in the long term, it's not sustainable because this groundwater resources are going to prom. 130 00:15:17,570 --> 00:15:20,180 I'm not saying these appear about probably 50 70 years. 131 00:15:20,180 --> 00:15:26,180 This might be the case that the quality and quantity of the groundwater resources in the northern part of the country 132 00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:32,600 in particular is going to be at a certain at a point that will not be we will not be able to use them anymore. 133 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:38,180 And that's more or less what also happened in the Osirak basin in the north eastern part of 134 00:15:38,180 --> 00:15:45,050 the country where we used to have a large wetland linked with the with the with the aquifer. 135 00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:51,290 However, years of years of both locally local use for farms, 136 00:15:51,290 --> 00:16:03,710 but also pumping this water off the base into amongst the growing demand resulted in the wetland almost disappeared. 137 00:16:03,710 --> 00:16:06,950 I was there a couple of weeks ago, and I mean, if you go to John, 138 00:16:06,950 --> 00:16:14,310 I really suggest it will go and visit the wetland because it really shows you that they did then. 139 00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:20,760 The level of the crisis of the water crisis over the over the years and particularly today in Jordan. 140 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:27,540 And finally, it's very interesting to see how the water resources are used so we can see that about 50 percent, 141 00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:30,870 52 percent, about half of the water resources are used for domestic use. 142 00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:42,230 And this has been increasing in the past years, in line with an increase in the population of Jordan about forty seven eight six more or less, 143 00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:49,050 four fold between 45 and 50 percent of water and in Jordan goes to agriculture. 144 00:16:49,050 --> 00:16:56,490 And the only very small percent is about three. Four percent goes to industry and industrial sector. 145 00:16:56,490 --> 00:17:07,260 So keeping in mind that that numbers and comparing them with this slide, I think it's it really shows and hints to the the topic of today, 146 00:17:07,260 --> 00:17:10,740 the politics of water and the locations in Jordan, 147 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:15,960 and we can see the role of agriculture in Jordan didn't from a GDP perspective, is not very important. 148 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,100 Only three percent, obviously, some people might disagree. 149 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:27,660 I mean, that's different data and statistics on the role of agriculture in terms of of GDP and 150 00:17:27,660 --> 00:17:33,780 really pent up on how we define our agriculture and what we include in this percentage, 151 00:17:33,780 --> 00:17:39,870 whether we also expanded to include the supply chain of the agricultural sector or not, 152 00:17:39,870 --> 00:17:45,390 which however, would probably arrive to 15 20 percent and also the labour force. 153 00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:50,730 Same same issue for labour force as we were mentioning for the GDP, 154 00:17:50,730 --> 00:17:58,860 but only a very small percentage of the population in Jordan is employed in the agricultural sector only three percent more or less. 155 00:17:58,860 --> 00:18:03,160 And even more striking, probably if you compare these numbers with the fact that we, 156 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:10,230 the centres on the right that says that Jordan imports more than 90 percent of the food consumed nationally. 157 00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:18,870 Which means that most of the of the water, I mean, about half of the water in Jordan is used by farmers. 158 00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:27,450 However, the food they produce is not really used to for the national food security, 159 00:18:27,450 --> 00:18:38,040 but they're usually exported to the Gulf countries or to neighbouring countries, or also to some European countries, 160 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:45,300 benefiting only those that are obviously in the in the in the business of especially large, 161 00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:53,010 large agribusinesses that produce these products for for export and from a water perspective. 162 00:18:53,010 --> 00:19:01,320 That is the concept of virtual water, which says which basically is the amount of water embedded in any product or service. 163 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,150 So and according to this concept of which are water, 164 00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:12,600 many water professionals would argue that water scarce countries should try not to 165 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:19,680 export beautiful water so not to export products and goods that are rich of water, 166 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:27,420 which basically means they are that required a lot of water for their production by standards should try to import these kind of products. 167 00:19:27,420 --> 00:19:36,270 And these kind of products are usually food products meet in particular about wholesome vegetables such as tomatoes, 168 00:19:36,270 --> 00:19:43,620 but also fruits, bananas and watermelon, for instance, instead of producing them and then exporting them. 169 00:19:43,620 --> 00:19:51,720 So this would not make sense for I would for the second most for this country in the world to export these kind of products. 170 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,110 Instead, they should try to import them. 171 00:19:55,110 --> 00:20:05,190 Instead, it would make more sense to export products such as dates for olives because for their production, they are not. 172 00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:10,530 Much water is required. And also it's important to also look at what kind of water we are talking about. 173 00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:17,820 Is it ground water resources or is it an agricultural that is Rainford for? 174 00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:23,970 Yeah. So if it's rain fed, also fresh water or in the case of Jordan, is that emphasised? 175 00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:29,310 The problem is really in the groundwater resources which are decreasing due to exploitation. 176 00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:34,890 And so we should probably rethink which kind of products we have in the agricultural 177 00:20:34,890 --> 00:20:40,020 sector and who is benefiting and which kind of water we are using for their products. 178 00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:46,980 And maybe also which kind of products would probably be better suited to be used and produced in the country. 179 00:20:46,980 --> 00:20:50,310 So the guiding question for unpacking the water, 180 00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:57,960 the political economy of water scarcity in Jordan for me was how is the discourse of water scarcity constructed in the case of Jordan? 181 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:07,470 So really a qualitative methodology trying to look at the written documentation on the topic from media to a governmental report? 182 00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:10,170 So that's one of the strategies, policies, 183 00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:17,520 but also donors and international organisations report the academic literature on water issues in Jordan and then also textbooks. 184 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:26,310 As we mentioned later, this was combined with the results of interviews to those producing these with the material and commendation, 185 00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:40,090 but also to policymakers. And finally, an observation of how people talk about these topics and also focus groups. 186 00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:48,970 In this light is basically the main funding, so what was the then the discourse of water this in that found in Jordan? 187 00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:54,910 And what I found was that there that while everyone agrees that there is water scarcity in Jordan, 188 00:21:54,910 --> 00:22:02,590 they disagreed on the nuances and on the causes behind this, there was a scarcity crisis. 189 00:22:02,590 --> 00:22:05,140 So I funds mainly two different groups. 190 00:22:05,140 --> 00:22:16,570 One is the dominant one because it's the one day you would probably be exposed most to like when it comes to mass media or textbooks or reports, 191 00:22:16,570 --> 00:22:22,090 and emphasise that there is a problem with water in Jordan due to water insufficiency. 192 00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:31,000 So we have limited water resources. And the main four reasons behind the limited resources are firstly, population growth, immigration, refugees. 193 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:39,680 So emphasising here that why Jordan had a population of about a half million people in 1946 when it became independent, 194 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,440 it then growth to seven million in about 15 years ago. 195 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,100 And today we have a population of about 11 million people. 196 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:57,670 And so this increase of population obviously also means an increase in the demand of water resources, especially for domestic reasons. 197 00:22:57,670 --> 00:23:02,410 And the emphasis is often on the immigration and refugees. 198 00:23:02,410 --> 00:23:06,310 So it's not on the natural birth rate of the Jordanian people. 199 00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:15,850 But it emphasises, for instance, the latest crisis in Ukraine, Syria that resulted in two or three millions, 200 00:23:15,850 --> 00:23:20,260 depending on figures and numbers, obviously of Syrian refugees. 201 00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:25,510 And before that, we had Lebanese, we had the Iraqis, Palestinians. 202 00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:30,460 So according to and as we know, Jordan has been quite stable since 19. 203 00:23:30,460 --> 00:23:38,260 I mean, since I mean the past two decades, especially compared with the situation in the region. 204 00:23:38,260 --> 00:23:43,900 The other reasons are unfair sharing with neighbouring countries. So depending on who you talk to, 205 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:51,700 some people would emphasise that their agreements with neighbouring countries on water resources were quite unfair to Jordan. 206 00:23:51,700 --> 00:24:01,210 Some people emphasising the one with under Yarmouk, with Syria, others things said, pointing to the one with Israel. 207 00:24:01,210 --> 00:24:06,850 And finally, climate change. So the nature and the environment. So on the one hand, climate change is an additional pressure. 208 00:24:06,850 --> 00:24:12,160 We are probably all aware of this challenge, as well as aridity and precipitation. 209 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:19,840 So we all know that Jordan is in the Middle East and they perceive the Middle East as being part of a desert region. 210 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:28,330 And Jordan is quite often the vertical region and therefore is quite natural and normal to have to have water scarcity and low precipitation. 211 00:24:28,330 --> 00:24:39,250 So we will see that because I mean, the people behind this water use efficiency narrative are mainly the government, governmental actors and actors. 212 00:24:39,250 --> 00:24:50,080 They are aligned with the with the government. So mainstream mass media and also some academics, especially based in the country. 213 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:58,360 And instead, we have also a smaller like another narrative which is a bit smaller because it's not as dominant as the other one, 214 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,260 which I call the water mismanagement narrative or some of these course. 215 00:25:02,260 --> 00:25:07,510 And they basically argue that there is water scarcity and this is due to mismanagement. 216 00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:14,680 So if we simply had a better management of water resources, we would not have this situation emphasising no revenue, 217 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,920 water due to leakages and physical losses, not adding new water due to illegal wells, 218 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:30,400 illegal use and now sustainable agriculture water use, which already hinted at earlier and therefore here the solution I mean for those actors, 219 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,640 is that we should simply better manage their water resources. 220 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:40,810 And those actors are mainly NGO, environmental NGOs, donors, international organisations, 221 00:25:40,810 --> 00:25:49,390 diplomats and some academics, both in the country, but especially based abroad. 222 00:25:49,390 --> 00:25:57,250 The solutions. I mean, these nights are very important, very powerful because they are able to open and to lead towards certain solutions. 223 00:25:57,250 --> 00:26:01,520 So the water insufficiency one argues that we have limited water resources, population is growing, 224 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,770 we demand is growing and therefore we need to increase the supply, to meet, 225 00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:10,960 to meet and to match the growing demand and the solutions that are mainly suggested. 226 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:20,530 We will look at them in a second are the infrastructure projects such as that at that canal and the DC Canal or treated wastewater. 227 00:26:20,530 --> 00:26:29,950 Instead, we have their water mismanagement narrative that leads towards mis towards demand, so better management of water resources. 228 00:26:29,950 --> 00:26:38,860 And we need to decrease the demand, decrease the demand to market oriented solutions such as staffing and removal of subsidies, 229 00:26:38,860 --> 00:26:45,730 more efficiency in agriculture and non-revenue water closing, illegal waste and illegal campaigns. 230 00:26:45,730 --> 00:26:50,800 Finally, we have also own conservation solutions and we will look at them also in a second. 231 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:59,560 So we maybe can go directly to the these these solutions so the red that cannot be properly heard of it. 232 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:11,350 It has changed several times in its shape, but the main message off I mean, the main idea behind these kind of this project is that Jordan, 233 00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:22,240 Israel and Palestine would collaborate with a regional project to try to design ice water in the Red Sea area in Aqaba 234 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:33,490 and then pump part of the rice and water and salt water to the Dead Sea and then from the Dead Sea pump water to Amman. 235 00:27:33,490 --> 00:27:43,240 And this realised water in Aqaba would also go to Israel, and then Israel would sell water to the West Bank. 236 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:50,560 The shape has changed, and currently the idea is that Jordan is going ahead with the Jordanian only projects or 237 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,570 desalination water in Aqaba and pumping this water to our man and the north in the north, 238 00:27:55,570 --> 00:28:05,290 where Jordan needs most water. Another project that was another shape that it had in the past was without the Dead Sea idea was simply in Jordan. 239 00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:12,400 This rising water Nakba giving this water, selling this water to Israel in the south, where Israel needs most water. 240 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:22,120 And then Israel selling water to Palestine, to the Palestinians. And also giving water from the north to Amman directly. 241 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:27,410 There's different pros and cons. Obviously, some potential benefits are new water for these countries, 242 00:28:27,410 --> 00:28:31,750 especially in the parts where there are more water scarce saving that that seeing this, 243 00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:34,720 especially in the beginning given, is probably to say the Dead Sea. 244 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:43,930 They should just release more water from the Lower Jordan River to the that sea and then peace and stronger region on price, 245 00:28:43,930 --> 00:28:46,000 depending obviously on which lenses you have. 246 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:54,820 This can be seen as a benefit or not, depending on who you are, but also challenges challenges in terms of funding. 247 00:28:54,820 --> 00:29:02,140 It's very I mean, pumping water across the country is very expensive. You need the energy in Jordan is energy poor country. 248 00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:09,410 You need trust trust between countries, which is, I mean, which in the past years has not been very much, 249 00:29:09,410 --> 00:29:14,080 especially between Jordan and I mean, I'm looking particularly Jordan and Israel. 250 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,270 And the trust has I mean, there's been many issues we can discuss them later. 251 00:29:19,270 --> 00:29:22,420 Relying on neighbouring countries for their own water security, I mean, 252 00:29:22,420 --> 00:29:29,740 water obviously is a key sector and reliant on other countries is maybe challenging, especially if there is no trust. 253 00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:34,000 And the challenge here, I mean, in the balances between water security and food security. 254 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:42,940 So should Jordan use more water for domestic uses and less for food and rely on other countries for food or not? 255 00:29:42,940 --> 00:29:50,470 The other project was the DC Canal. So Jordan, I mean, we mentioned earlier the agreement with Saudi Arabia, 256 00:29:50,470 --> 00:30:03,670 and they started in 2015 16 to pump water from the DC area to our man and to the north, closing the agribusinesses in the south, which obviously. 257 00:30:03,670 --> 00:30:10,330 I mean, it was a bit challenging, but we'll talk about this in a second and then treated wastewater, 258 00:30:10,330 --> 00:30:18,640 this is something that which has been increasing in the past decade has been supported by everyone in in Jordan in terms of the actors, 259 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:19,960 the policy actors and the donors. 260 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:28,420 And then just the only ones probably where the sceptic about this and still are not supportive are some farmers, especially in the Jordan Valley, 261 00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:34,060 because they're getting more treated wastewater and the quality of the treated wastewater 262 00:30:34,060 --> 00:30:38,650 is actually different than the one off fresh water they used that they used to receive. 263 00:30:38,650 --> 00:30:46,510 And therefore they are a bit concerned with the fact that their water is being pumped into our man and 264 00:30:46,510 --> 00:30:53,800 instead they're receiving treated wastewater from not drinking water has always been quite a challenge. 265 00:30:53,800 --> 00:31:12,610 Former minister husband, also minister of water, tried to to to to launch a campaign in order to in order to to close these illegal wells. 266 00:31:12,610 --> 00:31:21,580 However, illegal workers are mainly in the north of the country, small farmers and we will see these in a second. 267 00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:24,040 The role of farmers in Jordan is quite important, 268 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:38,980 so it's not easy to go to the rural areas for four for the government and try to enforce the closure of illegal wells. 269 00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:45,760 This is quite an important line because it looks set another solution on the demand side. 270 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,450 So yeah, I mean the the previous line, the focus on the non-revenue water, 271 00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:56,620 which I mean Jordan has been trying to work on but has not really managed to successfully solve it. 272 00:31:56,620 --> 00:32:00,310 And this slide focuses on another type of demand side solution. 273 00:32:00,310 --> 00:32:07,960 So terrific system subsidies, removal and regulations on what type of crops we can have and farmers can have in the farms. 274 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:13,550 And also, this one needs quite of another. It's another demand side solution that Jordan, the Ministry of Water, 275 00:32:13,550 --> 00:32:20,830 try to implement, but it did not manage to, and this links back to the farmers again. 276 00:32:20,830 --> 00:32:27,190 So donors try to push for subsidies removal since the 90s, especially US aid. 277 00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:37,570 And in 1997, they managed to have water tariffs low, which decrease the quota to the quota system. 278 00:32:37,570 --> 00:32:41,780 So basically the the long story short today, 279 00:32:41,780 --> 00:32:48,190 the goal of this law was to give on the free quota for a small amount of water for 280 00:32:48,190 --> 00:32:54,310 agricultural uses and then all the quota above was charged quite expansively. 281 00:32:54,310 --> 00:33:03,790 However, while they want this, I mean, this law was approved in 1997, a few years later. 282 00:33:03,790 --> 00:33:13,060 There was huge opposition in the parliament in particular that resulted in an amendment of the of this water law, 283 00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:24,280 which basically changed completely the sense and the idea behind the basically simply by increasing the quota to a very high amount, the free quota. 284 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:32,590 And so this really shows that the farmers and their lobby lobby behind the farmers, 285 00:33:32,590 --> 00:33:37,570 these is really powerful and also in different ways by protesting in the opposing, 286 00:33:37,570 --> 00:33:51,280 but also in lobbying within the parliament in order to stop policies or laws in the legislative process. 287 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:56,590 So this I mean, and I mean, the reasons behind, I mean, are in the media centre. 288 00:33:56,590 --> 00:34:07,150 So it's quite we're probably all aware of the history of Jordan in the state, making the country the history and the role of the tribes, 289 00:34:07,150 --> 00:34:16,870 the rural tribes that have always been mainly present in the government, in the governorates and in the rural areas of Jordan. 290 00:34:16,870 --> 00:34:19,390 And that's where most of the agriculture takes place, 291 00:34:19,390 --> 00:34:28,750 and therefore there is a link between farmers and the role of farmers and the tribes of which they belong to. 292 00:34:28,750 --> 00:34:37,090 And then the presence of these tribes and the which represents the farmers in the parliament. 293 00:34:37,090 --> 00:34:45,670 And therefore, it's quite difficult for the ministry to go against the tribes and the farmers because 294 00:34:45,670 --> 00:34:52,090 it's quite likely that they will oppose it and Earth and stop such such reforms. 295 00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:58,780 And so basically, when it comes to the allocation from the agricultural sector to urban artists in terms of water use, 296 00:34:58,780 --> 00:35:07,060 has it been easier for for the government instead of trying to close the wells in the south, in the north or to change? 297 00:35:07,060 --> 00:35:15,610 Yeah. The tottering system or that it will introduce regulations on the type of crops that have been just easier to close for large agribusinesses in 298 00:35:15,610 --> 00:35:26,350 the southern part of the country and to pump water from the from the deceased or to them to the northern part to our man in the northern part. 299 00:35:26,350 --> 00:35:37,930 Why? Because it was simply closing for larger businesses instead of closing hundreds and hundreds or thousands in northern Jordan. 300 00:35:37,930 --> 00:35:42,220 Conservation solutions That's another way that has been supported by everyone, 301 00:35:42,220 --> 00:35:47,470 basically convincing and raising awareness on the importance of using less water. 302 00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:51,070 I published on this topic examining in particular the role of textbooks, 303 00:35:51,070 --> 00:36:00,340 how the ministry used textbooks in order to raise awareness and change the behaviour of the students and the younger generation in the country, 304 00:36:00,340 --> 00:36:09,760 but also initiatives such as Water Journalism Academy. So trying to evolve and the mass media and journalists in changing their narratives. 305 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:16,030 But also some projects on involving the religious leaders saw imams, for instance, 306 00:36:16,030 --> 00:36:25,960 in trying to to highlight the importance of saving water, also from a religious perspective in their weekly sermons on Fridays. 307 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,030 So I mean, some concluding questions for reflections and for discussion is, I mean, 308 00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:38,030 it's really important to look at what has been implemented and what has not been implemented and why this? 309 00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:44,090 And also at the end, the questions that we find ourselves in front about also the government, 310 00:36:44,090 --> 00:36:50,600 so increasing the supply to meet the demand or maintaining the status quo and the challenges behind this, 311 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,020 especially in the past decades of the so-called Arab Spring. 312 00:36:54,020 --> 00:37:04,370 I mean, it's even more challenging for an Arab government to go against important segments of the society, so challenging the status quo. 313 00:37:04,370 --> 00:37:14,300 But it is with or they with resources or go instead for a sustainable use of water resources reallocation from the DC returning from the high land. 314 00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:17,540 We already discussed this and also which interests doing that. 315 00:37:17,540 --> 00:37:24,740 If no solution undermine and challenge, what should the role of agriculture be in Jordan in the future? 316 00:37:24,740 --> 00:37:29,390 And how so should Jordan balance water and food security while also ensuring? 317 00:37:29,390 --> 00:37:33,110 I mean, that's something that it's very important now for the first time. 318 00:37:33,110 --> 00:37:34,910 But agriculture in Jordan, 319 00:37:34,910 --> 00:37:43,190 the water that goes to agriculture is also important from a rural development perspective and the jobs in the rural and the rural sector. 320 00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:49,730 And therefore, how can Jordan rethink itself and creating new jobs in the rural sector and then in 321 00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:57,020 the rural areas to ensure that farmers that will that might lose their job could, 322 00:37:57,020 --> 00:38:05,630 instead of going to increase their urban poverty in Amman, stay in the rural areas and work maybe in and use in that new sectors. 323 00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:10,940 And finally, what discourses and narratives will need will be needed to allow sustainable use of water 324 00:38:10,940 --> 00:38:18,530 resources and also this shift of the economic paradigm of Jordan end of the water sector. 325 00:38:18,530 --> 00:38:25,310 So to conclude, we really need a holistic understanding of the problem in order to be able to solve it. 326 00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:29,480 We need interdisciplinary research to complex problems. 327 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,610 So looking, for instance, that the Water Energy, Food Nexus votes or rural development, jobs and migration, 328 00:38:34,610 --> 00:38:42,980 and today probably was a bit of a different presentation coming from political science about trying to bring together also geography, 329 00:38:42,980 --> 00:38:47,750 development studies, and that's probably what we really need going forward. 330 00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:55,070 And then we need to contextualise water issues within the political economy and also the regional politics. 331 00:38:55,070 --> 00:38:59,660 As I mentioned the role of farmers, but also transboundary issues. 332 00:38:59,660 --> 00:39:02,960 And how should the Jordanian economy look like in the in the in the future? 333 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:08,210 And how can we facilitate that transition towards a more sustainable Jordan? 334 00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:16,420 Looking at different sectors, thank you very much. I'm happy to answer any question the public might have. 335 00:39:16,420 --> 00:39:20,260 Rick, thank you so much. That was absolutely fascinating. 336 00:39:20,260 --> 00:39:28,150 I have a shopping list of questions that I'm going to ask you and I'm going to abuse my chest prerogative of the moment to do so. 337 00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:35,950 But before it, before that, let me just remind everybody and encourage everyone to pose questions to Hassan through the Q&A function. 338 00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:41,620 If you could. I'm very conscious we've got 20 minutes left, so I'm taking some of the dinner after this. 339 00:39:41,620 --> 00:39:47,490 So it might be that I won't get through all the shopping list now, but just very quickly. 340 00:39:47,490 --> 00:39:52,670 And this is really, really thought provoking stuff. 341 00:39:52,670 --> 00:39:58,270 Clearly, there's there's a kind of water diplomacy issue. I mean, you talked about transboundary water governance. 342 00:39:58,270 --> 00:40:02,200 Could you just say something very briefly about the situation in neighbouring countries? 343 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,430 Because clearly this is going to have important implications for the incentives of these 344 00:40:06,430 --> 00:40:10,630 actors to participate in these schemes and the kind of the stories that the accounts, 345 00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:15,610 for example, of water desalination because it seems increasingly that Jordan is having to go it alone, 346 00:40:15,610 --> 00:40:22,570 in particular just out of curiosity, I was really interested in how the conflict in Syria has implemented. 347 00:40:22,570 --> 00:40:29,890 We'll see how the conflict in Syria has impacted water scarcity in in Jordan. 348 00:40:29,890 --> 00:40:32,680 I was also curious you obviously you've done this really lovely, 349 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:40,360 fascinating qualitative research where you identified these kind of two latent topics or two discourses, one around inevitable scarcity. 350 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,530 And what about management and trying to be more efficient and wastefulness? 351 00:40:44,530 --> 00:40:51,640 And I wondered, given the kind of the really, you know, this distribution of 50 percent of water is used by agriculture, 352 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,140 and agriculture only produces 10 percent of food consumed in Jordan. 353 00:40:56,140 --> 00:41:03,600 I wondered. What is agribusiness sits in in these two discourses, are they suggesting this is just inevitable? 354 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:12,420 Or are they trying to suggest ways in which this could become more sustainable through a more efficient use of of water? 355 00:41:12,420 --> 00:41:19,200 And finally, this question about this question about food security in India, and this is more of a comment on the question. 356 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:25,950 This balance that you kind of constantly referring back to about food security versus water security, 357 00:41:25,950 --> 00:41:34,290 if 90 percent of food in Jordan is being imported, I would say that Jordan doesn't have food security by any way, any by any normal measure. 358 00:41:34,290 --> 00:41:39,060 And I wonder whether that's whether that's kind of acknowledged or whether this this question of food security 359 00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:46,500 is actually just a discursive tool used by agribusiness to try to justify this disproportionate use of water, 360 00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:56,560 given a scarcity of resources or have these locations. If you want to answer those, or I think maybe Michael is organising the question, 361 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:02,340 suddenly, Michael, do you have preferences about how Hussain responds? Yes, Neal, happy to be Hassan. 362 00:42:02,340 --> 00:42:06,690 To go to those questions we can come to. It's going to be Q&A once and encouraging everybody. 363 00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:11,040 Please do if you do have a question to Typekit, as Neal says in the Q&A function. 364 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:16,630 But Hassan? Thank you. Thank you for your excellent questions. 365 00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:24,540 The very broad question, so I'm sure we will be discussing them later, but just to answer some of them so. 366 00:42:24,540 --> 00:42:30,600 Situation in neighbouring countries. From a water perspective. 367 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:38,190 Yeah. I mean, this man station obviously has changed the situation since the early 90s to today, especially in Israel, 368 00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:47,340 which has been using this ages and a lot and has like the most advanced technologies when it comes to the sanitisation. 369 00:42:47,340 --> 00:42:53,580 But this has not really changed the allocation between countries. 370 00:42:53,580 --> 00:42:54,930 And yeah, I mean, 371 00:42:54,930 --> 00:43:05,520 that could be also one of the reason why Jordan could try maybe in the future to re discuss a transboundary agreement both with Israel, 372 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:13,380 but especially with with Syria. I mean, the situation, as you mentioned in Syria, has changed in the past 10 years. 373 00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:20,580 The power relations between Jordan and Syria have changed. So there used to be. 374 00:43:20,580 --> 00:43:28,890 Much more powerful in economically and also in other dimensions compared to the Jordan, 375 00:43:28,890 --> 00:43:35,160 the situation now has been changing and therefore I wonder whether Jordan will try in the future to sit at 376 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:43,710 the table with the Syrians to renegotiate the agreements or to update their agreements on the Yarmouk River. 377 00:43:43,710 --> 00:43:50,130 That doesn't mean that. Don't know, we'll get more water bites just to better manage their water resources together 378 00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:54,720 and the impact of the Syrian crisis on Jordan in terms of water scarcity. 379 00:43:54,720 --> 00:44:05,310 It has definitely negatively impacted Jordan, especially because Jordan had a very nice national water strategy that was there was approved, 380 00:44:05,310 --> 00:44:09,180 I think, 2009 right before, I mean, a couple of years before. 381 00:44:09,180 --> 00:44:17,930 And in theory, in the DC project and the red that canal where project that were going to save the Jordan. 382 00:44:17,930 --> 00:44:22,320 Then with the problem of Jordan for decades, however, 383 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:29,430 what has happened was that Jordan had to accelerate on the DC Canal and the DC Canal became just a 384 00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:34,980 coping mechanism to ensure water security for the northern part of the country and the refugees. 385 00:44:34,980 --> 00:44:39,540 So basically, what has the impact of the Asian crisis, I would say, 386 00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:53,760 has been mainly on transforming the long term plans of Jordan in certain plants and having Jordan to to to to have to rethink the sustainable, 387 00:44:53,760 --> 00:45:02,190 the sustainability of the water sector and the new long term plans and new ways to do that. 388 00:45:02,190 --> 00:45:05,850 The agribusinesses, I mean, it's difficult to say, but overall, 389 00:45:05,850 --> 00:45:12,330 the tendency is that agri businesses would strongly support and argue that there is water scarcity in Jordan 390 00:45:12,330 --> 00:45:19,110 due to limited water resources due to refugees due to either Israel or Syria and due to climate change. 391 00:45:19,110 --> 00:45:27,060 And therefore we just need to decide on ice water. We need this on ice water from then south, which would not. 392 00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:35,280 I mean, keep in touch the current allocation of water resources, and therefore there are benefits, at least agribusinesses in the south. 393 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,150 I haven't spoken with the ones in there in the I mean, sorry in the north, 394 00:45:39,150 --> 00:45:46,170 and I spoken with the ones in the south, which have been closed, at least most of them. 395 00:45:46,170 --> 00:45:55,980 And it's like a very politically sensitive topic. So it was very difficult, difficult to access this access and food security in Jordan. 396 00:45:55,980 --> 00:46:00,270 Yes, I mean, really depends on how we define food security. 397 00:46:00,270 --> 00:46:08,280 I mean, food security. I mean, as long as Jordan manages to ensure food to all their citizens, I mean, 398 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:14,130 all the people living in Jordan, then that's a way to ensure food security. 399 00:46:14,130 --> 00:46:20,910 Obviously, it's not. It's different than food sovereignty. So food serenity when the food is locally produced, 400 00:46:20,910 --> 00:46:30,240 but the situation of food security and or lack of food security by relying on food imports is very similar to most of the countries in the region. 401 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:43,740 If you think in particular on the DCC countries, but what has been what some countries have been exploring in the decision was buying, I mean, 402 00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:51,450 so-called land grabbing or investment of land in terms of in in other continents and other parts of the world, 403 00:46:51,450 --> 00:46:55,860 especially, for instance, in some African countries such as Sudan. 404 00:46:55,860 --> 00:47:05,040 And so by buying land there and ensuring that the country has some agriculture, even if overseas, 405 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:13,830 at least that can ensure that some food products will be, I will arrive safely and cheaply to that country. 406 00:47:13,830 --> 00:47:19,770 So, yeah, I mean, it's really about, I think, political decisions that need to be and vision of which, 407 00:47:19,770 --> 00:47:26,010 which kind of economy and we want to have and on which sectors we want to. 408 00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:36,150 Yeah, I mean, from where we will ensure water resources and the food products for the people of the country and that supplies to obviously Jordan, 409 00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:40,470 but also to any country in the world. Thank you so much. 410 00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:45,690 And Sam, we do have a question coming in from a very good friend of the centre, Matteo Renzi. 411 00:47:45,690 --> 00:47:53,880 Now, I'm not very much mistaken. Matteo is joining us from the beautiful city of Venice, which has a water problem. 412 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,080 But I think a water problem with a rather different type than Jordan has. 413 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:04,710 And having had rather too much of it and very good to have you join us as always, Matteo and Matteo, 414 00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:10,440 this question is an international relations question from an international relations person, he says. 415 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:18,780 What would you say has been the impact of water, if any, in bilateral relations with Israel and its other neighbours? 416 00:48:18,780 --> 00:48:21,620 Is it actually a factor? Now you've touched on that a bit, 417 00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:25,850 I was wondering if you could say a little bit more about that and some about particularly the relationship with Israel. 418 00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:32,440 Thank you. Thank you very much, Professor Vagrancy, for this question. 419 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:42,550 So now that's a very good question. And I who say that water resources are very key factor in the bilateral relations with neighbouring countries. 420 00:48:42,550 --> 00:48:52,060 In fact, the peace treaty itself of 1994 had an annexe focussing only on extremism, not on focussing only on water resources. 421 00:48:52,060 --> 00:48:58,870 And I would say that ensuring the stability of Jordan and therefore ensuring 422 00:48:58,870 --> 00:49:04,990 water security for for Jordan is a priority for many countries in the region. 423 00:49:04,990 --> 00:49:08,320 Also for geopolitical political reasons. So ensuring I mean, for Israel, 424 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:19,370 it's a priority to ensure that Jordan will stay stable and therefore will not be not will not run out of water and therefore will, 425 00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:24,370 I mean, has been in the past decades supporting Jordan from the perspective. 426 00:49:24,370 --> 00:49:32,680 And when Jordan requested additional water to Israel, this water was usually provided, and the reason behind is really that Israel, 427 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:41,620 as we all know, has the longest border in its longest border, is with an external border, is with with with Jordan, 428 00:49:41,620 --> 00:49:50,470 and therefore ensuring that the eastern border is secure and therefore Israeli security cooperation 429 00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:57,580 and stability of the neighbouring country on the eastern side is really a priority for Jordan, 430 00:49:57,580 --> 00:50:06,700 as well as for Saudi Arabia. So ensuring that from a Saudi Arabian perspective, the stability of Jordan is is these has been key in the past decades. 431 00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:13,420 And therefore this is why also the 2015 agreement came to be between Jordan and Saudi Arabia because Saudi 432 00:50:13,420 --> 00:50:20,830 Arabia had and also if you look at foreign aid and funding coming from Saudi Arabia and also from the US, 433 00:50:20,830 --> 00:50:26,560 but like those are the two main partners that Jordan has has had in terms of funding, 434 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:34,580 and therefore it really works with, I mean, foreign aid with with with water in order and the means a political reason. 435 00:50:34,580 --> 00:50:41,120 So the political one is really the ensuring the stability of the Hashemite Kingdom. 436 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,200 Thank you, Sam. 437 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:51,410 Now that question from Lucy Maneesh asks how important and then she puts it in inverted commas is maintaining a certain degree of sovereignty. 438 00:50:51,410 --> 00:50:57,590 And the quotes in the area of water food sovereignty to the Jordanian government. 439 00:50:57,590 --> 00:51:04,970 Is this a narrative that is coming up or not? So much so a degree of sovereignty in this? 440 00:51:04,970 --> 00:51:12,260 Yes, very good question and very current one, because this topic came up in the past year, 441 00:51:12,260 --> 00:51:19,550 in a month when when the issue of energy and energy imports. 442 00:51:19,550 --> 00:51:29,180 I mean, we know that Jordan is very energy poor and therefore has been relying on labour on other countries for their energy security. 443 00:51:29,180 --> 00:51:39,320 And I mean, currently an extensive part of of energy is imported also from, I mean from Egypt, but also from Israel. 444 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:48,320 And when the discussion on the gas deal with between Jordan and Israel, I mean, it was a companies technically, 445 00:51:48,320 --> 00:52:00,090 but I came up one of their arguments and that it was was really this the one of whether can we rely on on Israel, 446 00:52:00,090 --> 00:52:14,880 which many people in the public opinion in Jordan do not see as a reliable country or partner and came up also when the issue of the border? 447 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:24,290 A couple of years ago was discussed in Jordan. So that's a small territory on the border between Jordan and Israel, technically Jordanian. 448 00:52:24,290 --> 00:52:28,370 But according to the 1994 agreements of the peace treaty, 449 00:52:28,370 --> 00:52:40,670 Jordan decided to to rent it to for a certain amount of years from now, around 25 years, two to two Israeli farmers to Israel. 450 00:52:40,670 --> 00:52:51,110 And yes, this clause, however, also mentioned that then the two parties had to decide whether to to renew it after twenty four years, 451 00:52:51,110 --> 00:53:01,880 five years or not, and Jordan decided not to, which was pursued and received not very well in in Tel Aviv. 452 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:12,400 And then the reaction was a few months later from Netanyahu not to approve a right away, an additional amount of water that Jordan had requested. 453 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:24,280 And therefore, that's when Jordan felt a bit water insecure and the discussions on whether could we rely on Israel for 454 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:31,660 the Jordanian water security or other strategic sector came up in the public discourse as an artist, 455 00:53:31,660 --> 00:53:34,930 at least in conversations. 456 00:53:34,930 --> 00:53:47,500 So yeah, I think that's a very good point and that every now and then come up, especially when it comes to water, food and energy. 457 00:53:47,500 --> 00:53:50,110 Great, thank you so much. 458 00:53:50,110 --> 00:53:57,710 I don't think I think we've now answered all the questions, and this is perfect timing because we now just about to reach six o'clock. 459 00:53:57,710 --> 00:54:03,910 So with that, let me thank you so much for coming and giving us such a stimulating talk about water scarcity. 460 00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:10,870 And Jordan is a super important topic and a really good start. Well, series on environmental politics in the region. 461 00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:19,390 On that note, maybe I can also plug or talk next week with J.M. Furness from the University of Edinburgh. 462 00:54:19,390 --> 00:54:25,450 [INAUDIBLE] be talking about the Blue Cloud Finnick authoritarian environmentalism in Tunisia and its afterlife. 463 00:54:25,450 --> 00:54:29,950 I really hope that everyone in the chat can join us then. 464 00:54:29,950 --> 00:54:36,040 And with that, let me just thank him again for his excellent talk and thanks everybody for joining. 465 00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:50,173 And for that you have these really thoughtful questions. Thank you so much.