1 00:00:06,140 --> 00:00:13,220 Well, good evening, everybody will make a start. Thank you very much for joining us this evening. 2 00:00:13,220 --> 00:00:21,230 My name's Michael Willis. I'm the director of the Middle East Centre here at St. Anthony's College at University of Oxford. 3 00:00:21,230 --> 00:00:28,460 And it's my great pleasure to welcome you to the sick and our Friday seminar series of Michaelmas Term. 4 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:30,780 Now, those of you who've been following the series this time will know, 5 00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:37,130 but we have been focussing on the theme of the environment in the Middle East this term for our sales, 6 00:00:37,130 --> 00:00:42,380 and having looked in previous weeks at Jordan, Tunisia, the Gulf and Iran, 7 00:00:42,380 --> 00:00:51,350 we tend to look at Iraq as evening and our speaker to talk about Iraqis is Dr. Michael Mason we're delighted to have with us. 8 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:56,270 Dr. Mason is director of the Middle East Centre at London School of Economics. 9 00:00:56,270 --> 00:01:02,210 We have a surfeit of directors of Middle East Centres on this on this call tonight, as you called Michael or Michael as well. 10 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:06,980 So yes, it must be something that Michael being director of Middle East Sentence. 11 00:01:06,980 --> 00:01:11,060 Dr. Mason is also associate professor of the Department of Geography and Environment 12 00:01:11,060 --> 00:01:15,920 and Associates at the Grantham Research Institute for Climate Change and Environment. 13 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:22,010 And he is. He is the author of a number of books on environmental issues, both generally, 14 00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:27,320 most recently, transparency in global environmental governance that came out in 2014. 15 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:33,650 Also, the new accountability environmental responsibility across borders came out in 2005, 16 00:01:33,650 --> 00:01:38,840 but also books specifically relating to the issue of the environment in the Middle East. 17 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:45,920 Most recently co-edited Volume Renewable Energy in the Middle East, which came out in 2009. 18 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,000 Tonight, as I mentioned, 19 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:55,880 we will be speaking about Iraq and we'll be speaking under the title of failing flows the politics of water management in southern Iraq. 20 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:04,040 Michael? Yeah, thank you very much, Michael, for you and colleagues for this kind invitation to come to the Belief Centre at Oxford. 21 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,820 This is strange. I am actually here at the Middle East into Oxford, 22 00:02:07,820 --> 00:02:14,960 and I had hoped when we originally planned this that this would be a meeting in person with with academics and students and such. 23 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:21,530 Unfortunately, that has not happened, but I have actually made the journey here to to to allow me to meet our colleagues at Oxford. 24 00:02:21,530 --> 00:02:25,070 So thanks very much for the invitation. I appreciate that. 25 00:02:25,070 --> 00:02:32,510 Let me say first, this is a piece of research which was funded through the The Conflict Research Programme. 26 00:02:32,510 --> 00:02:40,370 Iraq, which was a UK government funded programme between twenty seventeen, 27 00:02:40,370 --> 00:02:47,390 finished a five year programme and the conflict research programme Iraq Work. 28 00:02:47,390 --> 00:02:52,160 There were other countries which have been research under this programme and see the 29 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,970 Iraq programme was very ably directed by my colleague Alesi Professor Toby Dodge, 30 00:02:57,970 --> 00:03:03,920 who I'd give thanks to for guidance on on on issues around Iraq. 31 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:05,480 Now I'm an environmental geographer. 32 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:16,370 I look at water management, water infrastructure, environmental resources and politics, and this talk is basically about a policy brief, 33 00:03:16,370 --> 00:03:23,810 which is one of the outputs of the conflict research programme Iraq looking at water management in southern Iraq, 34 00:03:23,810 --> 00:03:28,340 particularly looking at Basra City Basin and government. This research. 35 00:03:28,340 --> 00:03:38,090 There was a team of us involved, so I give credit to my colleagues on the team, my Iraq researcher as I will be, 36 00:03:38,090 --> 00:03:44,030 and my Alessi based researcher Zainab Mahdi, were both involved in this project. 37 00:03:44,030 --> 00:03:48,110 It is a report policy report which came out for this project. 38 00:03:48,110 --> 00:03:56,120 I can show you the screen, the hard copy here, which we have available, and there will be a link if anybody's interested. 39 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:02,500 If they want to see the the version of this report, which we can make available to you via this, 40 00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:09,470 this, this, this series, and also it's available on the LSC Middle East and to a website now. 41 00:04:09,470 --> 00:04:16,940 The policy brief is is quite focussed. We hardly have to stay here from UK government interested in us doing a policy brief. 42 00:04:16,940 --> 00:04:21,290 There's a separate academic paper written out which is currently on the second review, 43 00:04:21,290 --> 00:04:29,630 giving a more historical context of the sort of water management politics in southern Iraq in the past decade or so. 44 00:04:29,630 --> 00:04:39,710 But for this particular project we had as the kind of the aim to look at the water situation in 2018, very specific kind of. 45 00:04:39,710 --> 00:04:44,360 I'll get the reasons for that shortly. Why 2018 after 2018. 46 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:53,600 But the report just go briefly into the the sort of long historical context in terms of a conflict affected water 47 00:04:53,600 --> 00:05:04,550 management sector going back to the Iran-Iraq war and then obviously conflict more recent conflict in the UK, 48 00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:15,530 US. A coalition invasion, occupation and civil conflict, also an ISO related violence in Iraq. 49 00:05:15,530 --> 00:05:21,940 The the policy, if you like background for this is a sort of post occupation. 50 00:05:21,940 --> 00:05:31,990 The Coalition Provisional Authority CPA kind of template for the rehabilitation of infrastructure in Iraq. 51 00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:37,960 And the focus on this policy brief is on the water sector. Why do we pick 2018 as the starting point? 52 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:47,810 Because there were big protests that took place in Basra in 2018 over major water pollution incident in which almost 20000 people were hospitalised. 53 00:05:47,810 --> 00:05:53,020 These protests broke out onto the streets. There were also grievances around other public services, 54 00:05:53,020 --> 00:06:01,150 electricity and general sort of disaffection with the with the sort of city and the provincial government. 55 00:06:01,150 --> 00:06:06,670 And we were in for this policy brief. But we're interested in what's gone wrong. 56 00:06:06,670 --> 00:06:14,320 Why is the water sector not functioning and can we can we sort of specify what the issues are now? 57 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:23,390 The tap water in Basra has been undrinkable. Basically, it's the 1990s most households by private water from private vendors. 58 00:06:23,390 --> 00:06:35,230 This is a picture of one in November 2020, and although the tap water delivered by boat by the authorities is supposed to be portable and clean, 59 00:06:35,230 --> 00:06:40,870 it is never used for drinking is bored even to use it for sort of washing out. 60 00:06:40,870 --> 00:06:44,620 And, you know, some, some some people in the city. 61 00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:55,840 So at best it's used to wash cars. Now, the one of the key starting points with this work is that the large proportion of 62 00:06:55,840 --> 00:07:00,700 the population the government isn't actually connected to the public water network. 63 00:07:00,700 --> 00:07:10,120 As part of the data collection. For this study, we were gathering statistics and data from the National Water Directorate to which we're thankful. 64 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:15,490 It wasn't easy because the records are quite fragmented and most of them are not digitalised. 65 00:07:15,490 --> 00:07:24,250 So this involved chasing up sort of paper copies of what's going on in terms of water infrastructure, water management now. 66 00:07:24,250 --> 00:07:32,260 The at least the aim for this policy brief, we're looking at the problems in the water supply and treatment infrastructure embezzle government. 67 00:07:32,260 --> 00:07:40,960 The methodology involved interviews with what I would call insiders, water engineers, water management, public officials, 68 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:47,680 but also people in civil society who who talk about water management as an issue in in Basra, 69 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:54,610 including civil society activists, including religious leaders, also gathered data from from basketball to directora. 70 00:07:54,610 --> 00:07:59,560 Now, as I said, this is a policy brief from talking to the academic paper. 71 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:06,220 This is academic paper works on some theoretical ideas to account for what's been 72 00:08:06,220 --> 00:08:10,840 happening with the water management kind of failing in embattled government, 73 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:19,420 which I'm quite happy to kind of go to in questions or discussion. But I won't mention that we'll go into three more in this presentation. 74 00:08:19,420 --> 00:08:22,750 But basically, the key kind of theoretical frameworks, if you're interested, 75 00:08:22,750 --> 00:08:28,630 are political ecology and political and the idea of basically sort of governance 76 00:08:28,630 --> 00:08:33,160 as a political marketplace inspired here by my my colleague Toby Donges, 77 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:39,580 application this concept to Iraq and Alex de Waal for applied imagery to Africa, 78 00:08:39,580 --> 00:08:45,100 which is the idea of understanding the governance in Iraq and southern Iraq specifically as a kind 79 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:51,970 of transactional politics when seeking politics in which political loyalty and support is bought. 80 00:08:51,970 --> 00:09:01,990 Okay? And so in terms of the theoretical work, it's working out how that political marketplace feeds into water management. 81 00:09:01,990 --> 00:09:06,270 Now. This is a Mac in the in the report. 82 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:10,230 So if you go to the report, you can look at this in more detail. 83 00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:19,080 One of the things that struck us looking at this situation and there's lots of great literature on the on the so-called water crisis in Basra. 84 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:25,320 And what we wanted to do with this study is try and be a little bit more granular if you like a little bit 85 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:31,110 more almost forensic and find out what's actually happening in terms of water flows and water treatment. 86 00:09:31,110 --> 00:09:39,210 The basic problem is that Basra city and again, the focus areas in Basra city, it's really dependent on the paddock now. 87 00:09:39,210 --> 00:09:43,290 This is the dash line on the map. 88 00:09:43,290 --> 00:09:58,890 The Better Canal is a sort of 240 kilometre long canal which brings water from the Gulf of Canal, taking water from the Tigris to Basra. 89 00:09:58,890 --> 00:10:03,870 Now, this better canal was built in the 1990s, a long canal. 90 00:10:03,870 --> 00:10:07,230 And the reason Basra is dependent on the Badr Canal, 91 00:10:07,230 --> 00:10:13,950 it would so as surely barges what next to the Shatt al-Arab Shatila were being the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates. 92 00:10:13,950 --> 00:10:19,530 The Shatt al-Arab is so polluted. Bye bye, bye bye chemicals. 93 00:10:19,530 --> 00:10:25,110 Bye bye. Heavy metals by all sorts of things, by agricultural sort of flows. 94 00:10:25,110 --> 00:10:30,550 And that is unusable, pretty much unusable in terms of water treatment. 95 00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:36,660 So so the whole idea with the batter canal is to provide a fresh water supply for Basra City. 96 00:10:36,660 --> 00:10:41,880 This means Basra City is very much dependent on this particular canal. 97 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:49,860 Now, one of the things we can talk about, perhaps in discussion about go into into great detail here is the Shatt al-Arab 98 00:10:49,860 --> 00:10:54,360 has become more and more saline because of flow reduction since the 1970s, 99 00:10:54,360 --> 00:11:03,930 attributed to upstream dam construction on both, particularly the Euphrates and more recently, the Tigris in Turkey. 100 00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:12,240 Turkey in particular, also Syria and also Iran, particularly Iran, recently with some of the two tributaries which feed into the Shatt al-Arab. 101 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:21,000 This flow reduction is increasing the seasonal summer incursion of seawater from the Persian Gulf. 102 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,670 This is now region all the way up to Basra. Okay, so it's sort of over 100 kilometres year. 103 00:11:26,670 --> 00:11:31,110 This salinity is increasing the unsuitability of the water, 104 00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:39,270 which is extracted from the Shatt al-Arab because some water is still extracted from the Shatt al-Arab for water treatment for use in Basra. 105 00:11:39,270 --> 00:11:45,120 So what happens? One of the things we found out talk to people about what happens is that there's a 106 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:54,330 rationing system allocation system where the shuttle water is mixed with a canal water. 107 00:11:54,330 --> 00:11:59,460 And one of the things to explain is what happened with the 2018 water crisis. 108 00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:07,170 And we looked at the water data, water quality indicators, and they'll shoot up in summer 2018. 109 00:12:07,170 --> 00:12:17,400 In terms of very, very poor quality. Even after treatment is the the better canal flows were far less. 110 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,960 I'll say shortly why that was so and reduced flows, reduced flows of the Vatican, 111 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,950 our fresh water, forcing authorities to extract water from the Shatt al-Arab. 112 00:12:25,950 --> 00:12:32,340 It made the water much, much more difficult to treat. And some of the key problems in 2018 were with the treatment. 113 00:12:32,340 --> 00:12:42,150 Systems were overwhelmed by the heavily saline polluted water, even when it was mixed with with with the water from the bladder canal. 114 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:46,500 So the lesson for the 2018 crisis, 115 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:57,430 we can see that the trigger of the collapse of water quality is related to a marked reduction in flows from the barrier canal. 116 00:12:57,430 --> 00:13:04,390 One of the reasons being is the Better Canal was built in the 1990s and the U.N. sanctions regime at the time, 117 00:13:04,390 --> 00:13:10,570 the Iraqi government did not have the resources to build it in a way what it would be more efficient. 118 00:13:10,570 --> 00:13:16,960 So, for example, one thing that strikes you this is the Badr Corps before it reaches Basra City, the barracks and now is open. 119 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,470 So you lose a great deal of water from evacuation the better canal. 120 00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:27,820 At this point, you see pretty solid concrete lining. This concrete lining is not repeated for the holding of the canal. 121 00:13:27,820 --> 00:13:30,790 So some parts of the bad kind are prone to collapse. 122 00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:37,510 The Americans in 2003 spent some quite significant money trying to rehabilitate the battered canal, 123 00:13:37,510 --> 00:13:43,110 but didn't solve this sort of long term problems with the basic infrastructure not being very sound. 124 00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:52,180 Another another big issue the Vatican. You don't see, but this picture is is often clogged up with with with Holmwood, with aquatic plants, 125 00:13:52,180 --> 00:13:58,750 which the which, which is a big problem for the water treatment plants in Basra is a lot of time taking out. 126 00:13:58,750 --> 00:14:07,630 This is aquatic plant, which some people attribute the interest in the increased water temperatures as a result of climatic change. 127 00:14:07,630 --> 00:14:18,000 So going back to the. Water treatment situation in Basra and now Basra is very dependent on on a quite 128 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:23,910 small scale water treatment technology called compact water treatment units to use. 129 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:33,570 We use the acronym. These are kind of what we might call the water infrastructure workhorse workhorses in Basra because these supply. 130 00:14:33,570 --> 00:14:41,300 Over 80 per cent of treatment capacity across the government, over 300 units and 90 per cent of treatment in Basra city is about 198 units. 131 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:50,430 And these have tended to be favoured by both the Iraqi state and the provincial government and international donors as as a good, 132 00:14:50,430 --> 00:14:55,620 resilient quote, temporary technology. Why? Because they're modular and mobile. 133 00:14:55,620 --> 00:15:01,200 They were large, but you can move individual units around. You can have a water treatment plant, which might have multiple units. 134 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,680 You can take one units out and the rest continue working. 135 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:12,690 Okay, so so the the this this is been a the preferred kind of water I can say preferred, I would say, 136 00:15:12,690 --> 00:15:21,120 actually enforced water treatment infrastructure technology for Basra in the in the past couple of decades. 137 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:28,860 Now, however, to work, these compact water treatment units need the regular water flow from the Badar Canal. 138 00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:34,080 And one of the things with irregular flows in the barrier canal is they're not getting the water in 139 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:41,430 sufficient quality or quantity rather to to produce reliable potable water for Basra residents. 140 00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:49,140 Now in this study, we focussed on, so we looked at two treatment plants in the in Basra, 141 00:15:49,140 --> 00:15:54,300 and the key one is this one, which is the OR0 or Alaba's water treatment plant. 142 00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:59,490 Because this is the gateway, this receives all the water from the Badar Canal District. 143 00:15:59,490 --> 00:16:08,880 Some of the water itself and then distributes that water to residents in Basra city, but then channels other the rest of the water. 144 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:16,650 The more water it has a preliminary filtration. But the rest of the world water, as it's called, is sent to nine water treatment plants in Basra. 145 00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:24,240 Now the issue here is if the batter now is failing in terms of in terms of water flows, 146 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,980 you have a knock on cascading failure throughout the whole system. 147 00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:37,170 This is what happened in summer 2018. The OR0 Alaba's water treatment plant also has its own problems, 148 00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:43,590 and these are reported in interviews with engineers and managers in terms of heavily corroded rainwater collection basins. 149 00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:52,380 Problems form, as I mentioned, from aquatic plant accumulation and also storage basins for the for the OR0 plant. 150 00:16:52,380 --> 00:16:55,200 If the Badar Canal fails, 151 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:07,200 the storage basins only give you up to five days a capacity to keep the water running two to two water treatment into water treatment use in Basra. 152 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,210 So there's there's an issue here. 153 00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:16,200 There has been an issue in terms if if the system suffers a shock, remember we're talking about is a system resilient, 154 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,270 then there's only five days capacity, only five days storage capacity. This is a big issue. 155 00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:26,050 This is one of the reasons for the failure again in summer 2018. 156 00:17:26,050 --> 00:17:36,820 Another reason is that there is extensive illegal what's called water tapping, including from the Osirak plant. 157 00:17:36,820 --> 00:17:42,520 Different estimates of this estimate from the from the U.N. agencies, about 40 percent of the water. 158 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:52,480 I've seen estimates distributed by this plant is lost due to leakages, inefficient water sort of channels and illegal connexions, 159 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:58,210 illegal connexions of extensive use for domestic use, for commercial use and so forth. 160 00:17:58,210 --> 00:18:05,170 So. So there's an issue not only when the water with enough water reach the odds of a plant. 161 00:18:05,170 --> 00:18:14,800 If enough water reaches the idea of a plant is enough water, then getting through to the water treatment plants supplied from the OR0 plant. 162 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,520 Just to go back quickly and the other water treatment plant we looked at, 163 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:26,740 we thought we'd look at one of the water treatment plants, which was being supplied by OR0 and the Compact Water Treatment Unit. 164 00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:37,510 You can see in this photograph of what shim plant called algae there, which is about 10 kilometres southwest of Basra City. 165 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:43,240 And we were interested in looking at this beautiful water treatment plant when we were doing the research. 166 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,790 All of the compact water treatment units were out of use the K the Iraqi government 167 00:18:48,790 --> 00:18:53,830 had promised in the start of 2020 some major investment to rehabilitate them. 168 00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:58,390 They were all out of use. That meant this plant was not actually treating water. 169 00:18:58,390 --> 00:19:08,840 It was doing some very basic sort of like chlorination to the water and then pumping the water on this water was not usable for residents. 170 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:20,150 This caused a big issue in as a bare forcing, forcing residents even more to go to private water alternative supply sources. 171 00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:25,590 So we see major failings in terms of water treatment capacity. 172 00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:34,030 Going back to the key observer plan. So the we picked these two water treatment plants in terms of and we wanted to do more. 173 00:19:34,030 --> 00:19:36,180 But they were there were constraints in this research, 174 00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:46,920 as many would understand in terms of COVID the pandemic in last year and also the security situation in Basra. 175 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:54,760 The the the the research, the interviews from from the managers and engineers is is. 176 00:19:54,760 --> 00:20:00,670 States compact water treatment units should be good for at least 20 years. 177 00:20:00,670 --> 00:20:08,830 The engineers say that at least in terms of these two plants, they require heavy maintenance and after five years. 178 00:20:08,830 --> 00:20:14,290 OK, so something's going wrong in terms of the the underinvestment in that basic maintenance. 179 00:20:14,290 --> 00:20:18,730 We ask why they say it is not. It is not one of the things. 180 00:20:18,730 --> 00:20:23,860 Sometimes again to suggest is that there were chemical shortages, or perhaps energy shortages. 181 00:20:23,860 --> 00:20:30,610 The key chemicals relied on here are chlorine and aluminium sulphate, 182 00:20:30,610 --> 00:20:37,120 which is used to sort of add to to to to of fluctuation to bring particles together 183 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,410 in a way which makes it easier to extract them from the water pollutants, Engineer said. 184 00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:48,730 No, this is not the issue. The issue is spare parts and it's bureaucratic, particularly about water pumps. 185 00:20:48,730 --> 00:20:53,290 There was a big issue with water pump failure in 2018, 186 00:20:53,290 --> 00:21:03,730 when the when the technology was overwhelmed by the mixing of al-Bayda water raw water with water from the Shatt al-Arab because of salinity, 187 00:21:03,730 --> 00:21:07,750 the salinity overwhelmed the kind of water treatment capacity. 188 00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:13,760 There's been lots of political disputes over the over the you know, who's responsible for this? 189 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:22,030 There are different, different parties blame each other in terms of national government, provincial government and so forth. 190 00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:25,030 I can discuss that more, if necessary, in a discussion. 191 00:21:25,030 --> 00:21:31,150 But the key thing here, at least we were told, was spare parts something as simple as spare parts. 192 00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:38,350 This is a picture of the servicing of water pumps at the odds of a treatment plant in November 2020. 193 00:21:38,350 --> 00:21:47,230 So I'll just bring it to a close. I recognise this is quite broad brush, and so I'm sure there are areas. 194 00:21:47,230 --> 00:21:56,290 If people want to follow up on particular points, then we are happy to discuss those in questions now in terms of what's going on. 195 00:21:56,290 --> 00:22:00,600 One of the thing and we do mention this in the policy brief, actually, 196 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,840 and this is not a surprise when nobody knows anything about Iraq or southern Iraq is 197 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:11,110 the conspicuous lack of state authority in terms of high political decision making, 198 00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:15,610 decision making over water management. There's widespread illegal water extraction. 199 00:22:15,610 --> 00:22:20,530 We were told that this is something this is something the government is dealing with. 200 00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:27,310 But but there seemed to be little evidence of reducing or there is some prosecutions going on. 201 00:22:27,310 --> 00:22:33,050 At least this widespread illegal water extraction is continuing. One of the things that we saw and this goes back, 202 00:22:33,050 --> 00:22:43,240 I mentioned the term political marketplace earlier about a political system in which there's an expectation of rent seeking in Basra government. 203 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:51,220 There's all sorts of both legal semi-legal, if you like, and criminal rent seeking around around, 204 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:57,820 particularly around around the port and now for underground hydrocarbon contracts. 205 00:22:57,820 --> 00:23:02,050 But here we were quite interested to find that this this when seeking behaviour, 206 00:23:02,050 --> 00:23:07,180 which is often to do with tribal militia threats against contractors or against 207 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:12,520 water treatment plants in particularly has international funding available then? 208 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,830 Then there's some sort of got some payment made or some guarantee that people 209 00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:22,630 will be employed by the certain goods will be employed by the contractor. 210 00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:32,770 This seemed to be a significant problem in in weakening significantly water management capacity in Basra as a governor and the city. 211 00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:34,570 This is part of it. 212 00:23:34,570 --> 00:23:43,240 And you know, the situation in Basra, the routine violence of politics in Basra and the key role of militias here in deciding what goes on. 213 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,400 So we have we have a loss of legitimacy also for the state. The state is supposed to be the one. 214 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,450 You know, this is from a quote translated from a from a from an interview. 215 00:23:52,450 --> 00:23:55,750 The state supposed to be to take responsibility for delivering safe drinking water. 216 00:23:55,750 --> 00:24:01,390 This is the least the state can give, which is its citizens rights, just as the state asked me to respect the law. 217 00:24:01,390 --> 00:24:11,050 I demand that the state gives me drinking water and we have a we have a water network vulnerability in these situations of political dysfunctionality, 218 00:24:11,050 --> 00:24:15,550 which is becoming more vulnerable because of external physical shocks. 219 00:24:15,550 --> 00:24:23,530 And here we are looking at a reduction in water flow as a result of upstream dams, which I mentioned earlier, 220 00:24:23,530 --> 00:24:33,940 and issues around the irregularity of water flow because of the lack of maintenance of the Badar Canal and in the context also, 221 00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:38,260 some are saying of recent droughts and climate change. So we have this added stress. 222 00:24:38,260 --> 00:24:47,540 It's added physical environmental stress. Now one of the one of the things international donors have. 223 00:24:47,540 --> 00:24:51,920 And also, the Iraqi government had hoped that there'll be some kind of single shot, 224 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:58,490 high tech infrastructure solution to the water management crisis in Basra. 225 00:24:58,490 --> 00:25:03,470 This has been if if you if you go into the policy brief, you talk about some of these megaprojects, 226 00:25:03,470 --> 00:25:08,070 including the Japanese Zuiker Jumping Development Agency, 227 00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:19,970 a project to upgrade infrastructure with projects in Basra to more recent suggestions to to build a massive desalination plant outfall near the port, 228 00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:28,580 which is again the idea of a single shot solution or the single shot solutions have all been delayed for all sorts of reasons, 229 00:25:28,580 --> 00:25:36,020 including allegations of contractual malpractices. So one of one of the recommendations in the report is no. 230 00:25:36,020 --> 00:25:37,940 To put it simply to single shot solution, 231 00:25:37,940 --> 00:25:46,460 diversify primary sources of public water and in ways that you can do this and make sure it in fact the one of the things you can do, 232 00:25:46,460 --> 00:25:50,690 which is relatively straightforward and and the Iraqi government to commit to this. 233 00:25:50,690 --> 00:25:55,370 And last year is to cover the bottom canal, to cover the canal, 234 00:25:55,370 --> 00:26:01,010 given a decent sort of lining which would reduce significant evaporation that 235 00:26:01,010 --> 00:26:05,510 a single project admittedly expensive given the length of the Vatican now, 236 00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:09,680 if at least cover certain sections of it, would be for me anyway, 237 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:18,800 the most efficient single actually you can do in terms at least ensuring that supply source is more efficient. 238 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,750 However, it might also based likely also that desalination will also be necessary. 239 00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:29,480 So in our report, we talk about creating multiple sources for water to make the system more resilient. 240 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,950 You have to improve the operational performance of water distribution networks. 241 00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:40,350 These are going back constructed in the 1970s 1980s, at least for Basra City falling apart. 242 00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:47,070 The engineers, scientists and managers say this. And one of the unfortunate things that seemed to be with donors in the past, 243 00:26:47,070 --> 00:26:52,970 international donors tended to favour big mega infrastructure projects and not thought 244 00:26:52,970 --> 00:27:01,720 about the more routine daily and sort of mundane if you like water distribution networks. 245 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,550 There are examples from across the region which could also be relevant here. 246 00:27:06,550 --> 00:27:12,760 For example, increased use of wastewater recycling in terms of particularly times, you have a cultural sector. 247 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:19,000 Very little wastewater recycling in Basra. And lastly, we say in terms of the report. 248 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,860 I think and this is something international donors could perhaps, you know, if they do want to spend vast amounts, sums of money. 249 00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:33,610 Ambassador Rice insist on is a need. I think at least we recommend of an independent review a dispassionate, impartial, 250 00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:42,340 objective review of water governance in Basra because many people are talking about the sort of crisis or the failures of good governance in Basra. 251 00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:47,530 But I think there needs to be an independent sort of review which consults with the stakeholders on the 252 00:27:47,530 --> 00:27:53,770 ground as it were with the water users and the and those actually walked in the water treatment plants, 253 00:27:53,770 --> 00:27:59,050 I should say. This is nothing I'll say in terms of the presentation. 254 00:27:59,050 --> 00:28:04,220 Did the water engineers or the water managers, at least for me, are not the ones who are failing this situation. 255 00:28:04,220 --> 00:28:13,540 They do incredibly kind of conscientious. And usually these plants are understaffed, so they're working very, very hard and very, 256 00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:19,270 very typical conditions to make sure this technology keeps running. 257 00:28:19,270 --> 00:28:24,250 So there's an important thing here, I think, to to take seriously if you want to, 258 00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:28,840 if you want to understand why a water infrastructure management system is not failing, 259 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,630 one of the 101 lessons in this report, which is to me, 260 00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:37,570 is quite a common sense thing is talk to the water engineers, talk to the water engineers, not the politicians. 261 00:28:37,570 --> 00:28:45,070 The water engineers are the ones who know what's going on in terms of everyday water management and treatment. 262 00:28:45,070 --> 00:28:49,390 I think my time is going to be an apology to Michael. Oh, that's wonderful. 263 00:28:49,390 --> 00:28:52,180 Thank you. Thank you very much, Michael. 264 00:28:52,180 --> 00:28:59,560 I might have slipped a slide there and threw my my back, but it was the slide on on on mega infrastructure solutions. 265 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,190 All right. Would you like to go back and say something about that, Michael? We have time. 266 00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:06,190 No problem. Yes, very quick. I mentioned this at the end. I don't know. 267 00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:15,310 I somehow skipped this is this is the idea for both from the Iraqi government and from donors that there can be a 268 00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:24,310 silver bullet as the as the answer to the the water management deficit and partial government and the Japanese Fund, 269 00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:33,730 the Great Basin Water Project, which involves actually does it involve water infrastructure, distribution, network rehabilitation and investment? 270 00:29:33,730 --> 00:29:42,550 I should have finished by now. It still hasn't finished. And there was a very good report by Human Rights Watch a year before last claiming that 271 00:29:42,550 --> 00:29:48,370 there were serious contractual malpractices and corruption holding this this project top. 272 00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:54,130 And now I've mentioned the one million cubic metres a day out for desalination plant, 273 00:29:54,130 --> 00:30:03,310 which has been has now gone out at a tender feel to it to a company European company in terms of the the contract management. 274 00:30:03,310 --> 00:30:10,300 And this is something that should be finished, I think 2024, but is also dragging on in terms of arguments, 275 00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:15,590 political arguments about who should get the contract and everything in Batchelor. 276 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:23,950 And I think this is something I ask where whatever the good intentions of outside contractors and international donors, 277 00:30:23,950 --> 00:30:32,440 the failure to engage understand the political marketplace of Basra is something that. 278 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:38,710 Means that these these donor projects often don't sort of unfulfilled. 279 00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:43,210 And lastly, I mentioned just mentioned there's the upgrading of the of the canal. 280 00:30:43,210 --> 00:30:51,970 It would be it would for me, be the single most effective infrastructure upgrading kind of media solution because it would double the 281 00:30:51,970 --> 00:31:00,160 capacity of the of the above the canal just by covering it and upgrading parts of the parts of the embankment. 282 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,600 Thank you, Michael. Thank you. 283 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:10,090 Michael, thank you very much for a remarkably comprehensive, if rather sobering account of what's happening in Basra on that. 284 00:31:10,090 --> 00:31:14,650 And it's particularly good. We hear a lot of discussion about there being problems, 285 00:31:14,650 --> 00:31:23,350 but we rarely get the sort of in-depth explanation of what is happening technically at the level and what the technical issues are, 286 00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:25,900 why precisely these problems are happening. 287 00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:33,430 We hear about them and I have somebody who've gone in and, as you say, talk to the water engineers to find out exactly what what has happened. 288 00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:41,800 So thank you very much for giving that great survey of what of the situation in Basra. 289 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,270 We're going to move now to the question and answer session the opportunity. 290 00:31:46,270 --> 00:31:51,970 You have to pose questions and put questions to Michael. 291 00:31:51,970 --> 00:31:59,890 We can do this with the question and answer function. If you look on Zoom along with me, I can go along the bottom of your screen, you'll see Q&A. 292 00:31:59,890 --> 00:32:06,850 Now, if you press that there's a box, you can write your question into and then that will give us an opportunity. 293 00:32:06,850 --> 00:32:12,860 And I'll I'll I'll try and select as many of those as possible as we have time for and put them to Michael. 294 00:32:12,860 --> 00:32:18,640 And so if you put those in there, if you want to, you're welcome to put your name in. 295 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,740 If you prefer to be anonymous, that's absolutely fine. 296 00:32:20,740 --> 00:32:27,340 You can alter that to anonymous, and we'll try and get through of many of the questions as we can. 297 00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:32,000 But I'd like to start with a question myself, Michael. 298 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,100 You, you sort of won. You invited yourself looking at the politics of it. 299 00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:41,830 I think you made the very, very valid point. But sometimes the politics gets focussed on too much. 300 00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:46,600 But people can talk to politicians and as you said, they need to go talk to water engineers. 301 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,910 But could you say a little bit more about the politics, 302 00:32:48,910 --> 00:32:56,560 the local politics you mentioned about the political parties you mentioned about the militias and particularly something on how the local political 303 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:06,190 or even the local political scene and the role of political parties has effectively issued or and where it's obviously clearly it's made it worse. 304 00:33:06,190 --> 00:33:11,920 But in what sort of ways the political system locally it mirrors, to some extent, 305 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,010 the political system nationally, which other scholars on on the Iraqi political system. 306 00:33:18,010 --> 00:33:27,250 I'm not a scholar on the on the on the Iraqi people system have talked about this sort of a sort of allocation system whereby, 307 00:33:27,250 --> 00:33:37,300 you know, particular parties, particular constituencies are at least informally guaranteed sort of access to a particular government offices, 308 00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:46,780 but also as part of this also particular government funding, maybe expectation of certain certain contractual favouritism. 309 00:33:46,780 --> 00:33:53,560 Now that is interesting because I think the first election 2005, you know, 310 00:33:53,560 --> 00:34:00,500 after the new constitution and had the Islamic Virtue Party as the keep as 311 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:06,700 as the lead party base was dominated by bye bye by a series of Shia parties. 312 00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:16,690 And since 2009, what you've had is almost what we can call a local alliance of these parties, but they sort of come together. 313 00:34:16,690 --> 00:34:22,750 They seem to realise each of them by themselves cannot dominate the local political scene. 314 00:34:22,750 --> 00:34:28,750 There's a kind of what's called actually in some of the the sort of rent seeking literature. 315 00:34:28,750 --> 00:34:30,940 I'm thinking of people like Douglas North, 316 00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:40,210 who talks about what he calls a limited access orders and how a particular governing structures in in often conflict 317 00:34:40,210 --> 00:34:47,110 affected situations where natural resources are a key rental stream as they are in Iraq through food hydrocarbons. 318 00:34:47,110 --> 00:34:51,400 Of course, you have a kind of what he calls north a dominant coalition. 319 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:57,220 The dominant coalition in Venezuela is dominated by these these these local Shia parties. 320 00:34:57,220 --> 00:35:01,510 And so they they have this, this, this kind of they've sewn up. 321 00:35:01,510 --> 00:35:09,730 If you like the critical same which has created this, create this great gap between those who are represented not only by political parties 322 00:35:09,730 --> 00:35:14,650 and these political parties all have militias and the rest of the population. 323 00:35:14,650 --> 00:35:23,560 And when we had the 2018 protests in Basra, the water, the water situation, which was something very much triggered this. 324 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:29,020 And local protesters were what were perceived that these are these. 325 00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:35,780 These Shia militias are very much rain. Gradients are directed and sometimes funded, 326 00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:40,320 and so there were there were burning headquarters that need the sort of the head of 327 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:47,570 the Iranian consulate in Basra and said that you had these local political parties, 328 00:35:47,570 --> 00:35:52,610 which were kind of sewed up the sort of the governance locally. 329 00:35:52,610 --> 00:35:56,600 And what this means is that the governor is the governor. 330 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:04,850 Assad al-Adnani is seen as a kind of compromise candidate is somebody who kind of brokered between these different groups. 331 00:36:04,850 --> 00:36:10,010 But what it means is, I think you have this is not this is my opinion is not in the policy brief. 332 00:36:10,010 --> 00:36:21,980 You have acquired ossified local political system, which I think is based on a system of quite explicit rent seeking and patronage, 333 00:36:21,980 --> 00:36:27,260 which freezes out a large, I would argue, the majority of the population. 334 00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:35,750 And this this this causes issues. And if you go into the into why some of the major water management infrastructure projects are stalled and you know, 335 00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:39,650 we asked this at the local level and this was said, you know, 336 00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:44,330 this is still because this is not just militias, not just party militias, also tribal militias. 337 00:36:44,330 --> 00:36:51,980 The tribal militia has said if you if you don't give us a certain amount of money and will attack your water treatment plant, for example. 338 00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:59,040 Yeah. So this this whole political marketplace penetrates the sort of the system. 339 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:08,480 However, saying that and of course, it's become I'm tragically bloody since 2018, 2019, 2020. 340 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:15,620 We have I have colleagues at Middle East Centre funded through this, this conflict research programme who've done really, 341 00:37:15,620 --> 00:37:22,490 really fantastic work looking in great detail at the protests in 2018, for example, 342 00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:32,440 and been hoping to close Susan Rice University in Denmark now done a great paper in looking at what's happening 343 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:39,050 with the political protests and particularly some of the the the political assassinations since 2020, 344 00:37:39,050 --> 00:37:43,610 there's a whole swathe of civil society activists have been assassinated. 345 00:37:43,610 --> 00:37:52,590 Bye bye, bye bye bye. Militias, militia groups and certain militia groups have been named as responsible for these assassinations, 346 00:37:52,590 --> 00:37:58,100 so it's a very bloody situation in the paper. 347 00:37:58,100 --> 00:37:59,930 I don't think it's in the report. 348 00:37:59,930 --> 00:38:08,870 In the paper, I, I quote a former Basra police chief saying this was run by militias and that's from the police chief. 349 00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:14,660 So it's a very in one way. This is a so it's a long answer, Michael. 350 00:38:14,660 --> 00:38:22,470 In one way we have to be careful with characterising this as dysfunctional is dysfunctional in the sense that anybody from outside can say this. 351 00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:28,730 This is madness. You have. You have, you know, this is this is violent, you know, but it's not anarchic. 352 00:38:28,730 --> 00:38:36,650 There's an organised it's an organised political kind of system that it might be it might be what's been called a theocracy. 353 00:38:36,650 --> 00:38:43,070 It might be a particular kind of system which which, you know, we have absolutely no time for, of course. 354 00:38:43,070 --> 00:38:48,020 Yeah, but it enables itself to reproduce. 355 00:38:48,020 --> 00:38:50,060 And that's I think that's a key lesson. 356 00:38:50,060 --> 00:38:59,720 How can you kind of penetrate or at least think about ways in which this political system can can at least open up to 357 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:08,480 discussion to turn to civil society groups where perhaps water management is somebody nobody likes having lousy water. 358 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:14,870 So maybe water management is something where you can perhaps even depoliticise it in terms of in any, 359 00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:22,580 even even the local alliance or Shia parties know if you're not delivering decent water to the population, they're going to be out in the streets. 360 00:39:22,580 --> 00:39:28,070 So there's a self-interest there for them as well. Thank you, Michael. 361 00:39:28,070 --> 00:39:32,030 We cannot get into questions from coming in from those of the attending. 362 00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:39,860 Thank you very much for your questions and please keep on coming. Well, first question comes from Lucy, Banish and Lucy. 363 00:39:39,860 --> 00:39:46,910 Thank you very much, Michael, for the insightful talk. And Lisa's question is what are feasible financing options for the recommended improvements? 364 00:39:46,910 --> 00:39:55,070 I think ones you mentioned at the end of your two. How can these things get financed, given the fact that obviously is clearly an issue? 365 00:39:55,070 --> 00:39:59,630 Yeah, there was there were several things I think I would say. 366 00:39:59,630 --> 00:40:01,070 Thank you for your question, Lucy, 367 00:40:01,070 --> 00:40:13,340 is that there's a continuous source of dispute between the provincial government and the national government is its share of of hydrocarbon rents. 368 00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:19,130 And there have been disputes between between al-Adnani, the governor and the national government saying, Well, actually, 369 00:40:19,130 --> 00:40:26,810 basil government should get to get a fair share of the hydrocarbon rents, given that you have the concentration of oil fields in the South. 370 00:40:26,810 --> 00:40:32,960 So they wanted one of the things that is at least now it was an issue use when oil prices were lower. 371 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:40,270 But as oil prices have gone up again, there's there's no shortage of of Iraqi government money or petrol dollars. 372 00:40:40,270 --> 00:40:45,320 Yeah, there's no shortage of money in terms of saying what these these these projects cannot happen. 373 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:55,190 This is why last year it was announced that the Badar Canal would be finally upgraded in a way that become more efficient. 374 00:40:55,190 --> 00:41:01,610 But what happens is, and I think because the political system is at least in terms of Iraqi government money, 375 00:41:01,610 --> 00:41:05,690 the plan that we looked at the al-Shabab water treatment plant, 376 00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:15,710 we were looking at that because the OR0 plant had some international donor money and the al-Shabab plant had some Iraqi government money, 377 00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:20,360 which had been promised but didn't turn up. We couldn't even find out why didn't turn up the money. 378 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:26,240 Yeah, it wasn't. Money did not turn up. So there's an issue around government financing locally, 379 00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:32,910 locally because the money tends to come down to the national ministries, including bottled water, to extract the the the. 380 00:41:32,910 --> 00:41:37,250 The perception locally is this is incredibly bureaucratic. 381 00:41:37,250 --> 00:41:44,150 In fact, the system is made deliberately bureaucratic that if you don't spend it, you have to fill out Lozano's notes letter forms. 382 00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:49,310 And if you don't do that properly and don't spend your money, the national government grabs the budget back. 383 00:41:49,310 --> 00:41:55,700 So there's a very simple kind of solution here in terms of basic bureaucratic governance, 384 00:41:55,700 --> 00:42:01,850 in terms of allocation of national government money to, in this case with the Battle Water Directive. 385 00:42:01,850 --> 00:42:08,950 So, so the issue is not lack of money. And on top of that, you've got international donors willing to come in. 386 00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:16,280 I'm just saying that the big desalination plant and our food desalination plant is not going to be funded by donors. 387 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:22,670 The Iraqi government is going to fund this. You know, there are millions or billions of dollars that can be used to buy. 388 00:42:22,670 --> 00:42:24,770 International donors do come in. 389 00:42:24,770 --> 00:42:32,690 And the plan that we looked at, which had no functioning combat water treatment units last year, that was a bare plant. 390 00:42:32,690 --> 00:42:37,880 UNICEF came in at the last minute because the manager was screaming, Please help us somebody. 391 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,130 The government is not giving us any money. 392 00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:48,860 And said that you have this kind of reactive kind of funding from international donor agencies, humanitarian work. 393 00:42:48,860 --> 00:42:51,890 And you know, this is happening under water treatment plants. 394 00:42:51,890 --> 00:43:01,400 So I think at least in terms of international donors, humanitarian act, humanitarian funding is often there before things get too grim. 395 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:08,030 But they could be passed a motion to check financing option available. 396 00:43:08,030 --> 00:43:11,300 Which and this is I finished off saying this where you can say, well, 397 00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:17,540 the Japanese government have given hundreds of millions to to upgrade all the water infrastructure for Basra, 398 00:43:17,540 --> 00:43:20,090 but then you've got snarled up by the political system. 399 00:43:20,090 --> 00:43:31,310 So you must have some kind of donor payment system, which is somehow rendered immune from the national and the local political marketplace. 400 00:43:31,310 --> 00:43:36,350 And I think donors probably have more power here than they think. 401 00:43:36,350 --> 00:43:45,110 You know, sometimes a little bit too. They claim to have all sorts of wonderful auditing and transparency anti-corruption devices. 402 00:43:45,110 --> 00:43:48,140 But this is not working. It hasn't worked, at least in the past. 403 00:43:48,140 --> 00:43:54,890 So I think if this is, this is not this is not rocket science to set up an international donor payment system, 404 00:43:54,890 --> 00:44:00,110 which can render the payment the payment for water infrastructure upgrading and 405 00:44:00,110 --> 00:44:06,470 investment at least more resistant to to to the local political marketplace. 406 00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:13,940 I'm not going to tell you now how to do that, you know, but I think I think much more effort at least be expended in that direction. 407 00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:18,500 Thank you, Michael. Next question comes from a colleague here in Oxford. 408 00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:23,220 Is Sam Hussein actually his of? Yes, I'm sure. 409 00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:27,160 And he says, Hi, I'm Sam actually gave us another of our. 410 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:36,550 He's in those areas, I think, in week two and gave a boat an equally wonderful and equally sobering discussion account of what's happening in Jordan. 411 00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:41,380 And he said, Could you please elaborate more on the challenges of waste water recycling? 412 00:44:41,380 --> 00:44:50,080 You referred to it very briefly. And I and I suppose also more degrees of normative acceptability amongst the population of treated wastewater 413 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,930 for different uses because I know who Sam touched on this in his own presentation in the case of Jordan. 414 00:44:55,930 --> 00:45:01,270 Yeah, great question. Sam, thank you and good to see you. I'm not saying you sound kind of good to see, but good. 415 00:45:01,270 --> 00:45:10,160 Good to hear you and get can get your question. Now with this, this is a. 416 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,170 Caveat wasn't a cop out. 417 00:45:12,170 --> 00:45:20,270 We didn't look at wastewater treatment as as a key kind of research sort of aim at this project in terms of least needs, not a sewage treatment. 418 00:45:20,270 --> 00:45:25,760 The Bachelor is relying on an old single, massive kind of sewage plant, 419 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,890 which also had its own issues in terms of upgrading and not impact on the water 420 00:45:30,890 --> 00:45:36,920 treatment because it's discharging levels of pollutants into the Shatt al-Arab, 421 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,000 which which is increasingly the sort of toxic water in the Shatt al-Arab. 422 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:51,200 So there's a separate issue in terms of the sewage network and the sewage treatment plant, which Miller what I said, I can't go into that into data. 423 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:57,170 We didn't look into that in detail, but in terms of the the the wastewater treatment option. 424 00:45:57,170 --> 00:46:06,510 Well, you know, I think almost all the water used in agriculture, for example, in Israel, is treated wastewater. 425 00:46:06,510 --> 00:46:10,520 The technology is there to use to use treated wastewater. 426 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:18,290 One of the big issues in at least in Basra, is the loss of agricultural land from salinisation Farm, 427 00:46:18,290 --> 00:46:26,120 from not using water and not having access to water for for irrigation, for example. 428 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:33,410 Now, and I know Sam, it does great, fantastic work around norms in water, 429 00:46:33,410 --> 00:46:38,450 and I think the illusion here is is would would farmers use quote dirty water? 430 00:46:38,450 --> 00:46:43,030 Yeah. Or I would say here is is. 431 00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:52,510 There are some really interesting work on this, specifically by something called the Eden Restoration Project, which is cited in our policy brief. 432 00:46:52,510 --> 00:47:01,030 And this is a this is related to the various initiatives around restoring Mesopotamian marshes, 433 00:47:01,030 --> 00:47:08,020 of which Azamgarh was one of the sort of leading leading Iraqi environmentalist is involved with. 434 00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:10,870 But the Eden Restoration Project, which is one component of this, 435 00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:20,890 is using natural reed beds for water treatment and using natural ecological systems for water treatment and showing how this is feasible. 436 00:47:20,890 --> 00:47:26,620 I think they've got the go ahead for a couple of pilot projects and this year. 437 00:47:26,620 --> 00:47:33,790 And if you go look at the idea for a policy brief, you'll see the reference to their website to the demonstration project. 438 00:47:33,790 --> 00:47:40,780 They say this is possible and it's interesting the administration are doing this in a way in which the wastewater treatment 439 00:47:40,780 --> 00:47:52,930 is also a way in which the at least the sort of the Marsh Arab villages also have a kind of cultural heritage restoration. 440 00:47:52,930 --> 00:47:58,180 The ecological restoration runs in parallel with the kind of cultural heritage restoration. 441 00:47:58,180 --> 00:48:03,340 And the idea here is that a lot is talked about about restoring the marshes, 442 00:48:03,340 --> 00:48:09,340 about the water flows into the marshes, and the issue here is basically the sort of damming upstream. 443 00:48:09,340 --> 00:48:15,400 But there isn't. There is the feasibility for, shall I call them, culturally sensitive, 444 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:28,330 normatively sensible wastewater treatment kind of projects which could scale up the sort of water access availability. 445 00:48:28,330 --> 00:48:32,500 But thanks. Thanks for the question. Thank you. 446 00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:37,610 Another question for another of our colleagues here in Oxford, Adeel Malik, very good to see you idle. 447 00:48:37,610 --> 00:48:47,020 Thanks for joining us. And I feel really wants to have your view on how things have changed in Iraq and basically 448 00:48:47,020 --> 00:48:53,650 says all they noticeable difference in water management in Basra pre and post 2003. 449 00:48:53,650 --> 00:48:58,930 And how has the introduction of sectarian allocation system changed the governance of water? 450 00:48:58,930 --> 00:49:06,420 As you said, a little bit about that at a local level, perhaps you could say more, particularly looking at what has happened pre 2003. 451 00:49:06,420 --> 00:49:09,430 Yeah. Thank you. 452 00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:23,340 2003, you know, the Coalition Provisional Authority, remember that the British were in charge of of the South, had a very much a top down. 453 00:49:23,340 --> 00:49:31,120 I would, I would call it ideological project for the investment in public services. 454 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:37,390 Many people call this a kind of neoliberal project. There were, and there still are to some extent, for example, 455 00:49:37,390 --> 00:49:45,970 proposals for the privatisation of the water sector in the same way there were proposals to to to privatise oil contracts, 456 00:49:45,970 --> 00:49:52,060 which didn't succeed in the end. And what this meant, and it's interesting if you go into the detail of this, 457 00:49:52,060 --> 00:49:56,110 even in terms of the British government sponsored or the British government working here, 458 00:49:56,110 --> 00:50:01,630 they had a lot of advice from Adam Smith International think tank, 459 00:50:01,630 --> 00:50:09,490 which is which is very much sympathetic to kind of free market solutions, as they call them, for public services. 460 00:50:09,490 --> 00:50:13,810 So there was an expectation with water management and there was a breaking up of kind 461 00:50:13,810 --> 00:50:21,250 of as part of the whole de-Baathification in 2003 is breaking up with industries, 462 00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:31,660 losing many valuable experts and go into kind of decentralised free-market philosophy for water infrastructure rehabilitation. 463 00:50:31,660 --> 00:50:40,720 Unfortunately, unfortunately, that played straight into the kind of when the new constitution got to create a new sectarian system into kind of 464 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:48,370 the the political marketplace of sectarianism because you had you were creating a whole bunch of of of separate, 465 00:50:48,370 --> 00:50:52,450 fragmented, decentralised opportunities to earn money. 466 00:50:52,450 --> 00:50:58,720 And these things would be picked off one by one by particular parties, backed by particular militias. 467 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:09,250 And even even then, when there were large infrastructure projects with the Japanese zuiker and a big infrastructure investment project, 468 00:51:09,250 --> 00:51:18,130 we would assume for a very, very large project, there were protections against these kind of contractual malpractices, allegedly also with that. 469 00:51:18,130 --> 00:51:22,120 That was also held up and to some extent. 470 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:31,750 And this is in the Human Rights Watch report, delayed at the very least delayed because of these sort of the sectarian set. 471 00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:33,490 The sectarian system is basically, 472 00:51:33,490 --> 00:51:40,270 I think whatever the intentions of those who designed the Constitution and I talked about how this sectarian system, 473 00:51:40,270 --> 00:51:40,930 at least locally, 474 00:51:40,930 --> 00:51:50,450 is a little bit different in Basra because it's basically you have a kind of this coalition is dominant coalition of of of Shia political parties. 475 00:51:50,450 --> 00:51:57,910 So that said, it said the ethno religious complexion, if you like, is more is more consonant fixed. 476 00:51:57,910 --> 00:52:06,550 Is that that sectarian system? It's set out the opportunity for for rent seeking, 477 00:52:06,550 --> 00:52:16,900 including criminal rent seeking in a way which perhaps if a different kind of constitutional bargain or or design had been thought about, 478 00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:23,940 which was much more attuned to thinking about crafting a public interest. 479 00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:27,720 Rather than specific sectional interests, maybe that would have happened. 480 00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:38,310 I mean, there's been some interesting work, for example, about how the how the the Iraqi sort of sectarian system is replicating, 481 00:52:38,310 --> 00:52:43,760 to some extent, the sort of constitutionalism which is disabling Lebanon. 482 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:50,430 My my colleague, Toby Dodge, talks about Iraq as a kind of informal constitutional system, 483 00:52:50,430 --> 00:52:56,040 and we all know about these sort of failures in both energy water infrastructure in Lebanon. 484 00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:01,440 And unfortunately, these have been replicated in actually even worse, I would say, 485 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:12,950 in Iraq in terms of the sort of list in terms of sudden Iraq with a very, very violent kind of militia driven rent seeking. 486 00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:17,640 So again, long answer, I apologise, it's basically the I think the system, 487 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:24,470 the sectarian system has as amplified this this sort of political marketplace, 488 00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:39,380 which has disabled opportunities for for for for crafting out a kind of a functioning public, interest driven water management infrastructure. 489 00:53:39,380 --> 00:53:48,470 Thank you. Question from Marianne Lennox and Marianne says I was very involved in a multidisciplinary research 490 00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:54,230 project about the Euphrates River and analysing the effects of lack of cooperation between Turkey, 491 00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:58,010 Syria and Iraq, where Iraq was left out. 492 00:53:58,010 --> 00:54:05,120 The situation with the war in Syria hasn't improved the situation regarding water quality and access to enough water to Iraq. 493 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:11,720 And she asks, How would you look at the future regarding allocation allocation with a more fair water share to Iraq? 494 00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:15,470 I don't think that means yes. Absolutely, yes. That's quite a big question. 495 00:54:15,470 --> 00:54:22,880 So I don't know how much time I've got, but it's really important question to address actually is there? 496 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:30,840 I think you have to think about these things in a whole basin, a whole basin approach, and ideally, I mean a whole based on approach. 497 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,790 I mean, this sort of Euphrates and Tigris together. Yeah. 498 00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:44,900 In the the Arab geographies a thousand years ago had called of the Tigris Euphrates Basin Al-Jazeera because it constitutes an island, 499 00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:48,710 an island in which the swing sort of spring flows. 500 00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:53,630 The spring melts from the mountains in the north in Turkey, as it is now, 501 00:54:53,630 --> 00:54:59,310 would turned into this wonderful pulse of water down the Euphrates and down the Tigris River 502 00:54:59,310 --> 00:55:05,600 floods the kind of that's sort of the southern Iraqi plains and supports agriculture and so forth. 503 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,320 Now, they said, I think you need a whole basin approach. 504 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:19,430 Unfortunately, there is no there's no transboundary water agreement involving Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Iran. 505 00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:22,370 There are actually some agreements on the Euphrates. 506 00:55:22,370 --> 00:55:32,510 There's a there's a Iraq Syria agreement from 1990, which which agreed to a particular percentage share between between Iraq and Syria. 507 00:55:32,510 --> 00:55:39,290 And I think it is it's 42 percent say we have 58 percent Iraq in terms of entitlement to water. 508 00:55:39,290 --> 00:55:44,600 Now, however, if the water flow is decreasing, that becomes a problem. 509 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,350 Yeah. If because of infrastructure in Turkey, I mean, 510 00:55:48,350 --> 00:55:57,350 if looking at the sort of the overall water flow the over water flow has has has declined markedly since the 1970s, 511 00:55:57,350 --> 00:56:02,240 as upstream infrastructure has kind of become a more, more developed. 512 00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:12,170 So there's kind of 20 percent less water flow along the Euphrates compared to, say, the first half, at least in the 20th century. 513 00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:22,160 Engineers talk about from the 1970s you've lost what they call the near natural flow regime of both the Euphrates and the Tigris. 514 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,350 The near natural regime been a predictable, seasonal pulse of water. 515 00:56:27,350 --> 00:56:32,600 There's more infrastructure, the more dams on the Euphrates, but increasingly more and more on the Tigris. 516 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:39,770 You lose Sudan, for example, massive Turkish dam, which which has been making Iraqi water fish, was very anxious. 517 00:56:39,770 --> 00:56:45,530 So there's some, and I think there's a memorandum of understanding between Turkey and Iraq. 518 00:56:45,530 --> 00:56:50,570 So however, these things are not fit for purpose. This is a short answer. 519 00:56:50,570 --> 00:56:55,190 These things not fit for purpose because they don't handle the whole basin. And how do you do that? 520 00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:57,290 I think you have to go to international water law. 521 00:56:57,290 --> 00:57:05,600 International water law has very clear provisions about equitable and reasonable use to use the familiar norms of international waters law. 522 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:13,230 And I think all the other basins can do this, you know, with the political will, hopefully with with with assistance, 523 00:57:13,230 --> 00:57:23,090 the international community, you could craft a sustainable, transboundary water agreement for the Tigris Euphrates Basin. 524 00:57:23,090 --> 00:57:29,090 And one of the reasons this is becoming more and more and more necessary is because the impacts of climate change, 525 00:57:29,090 --> 00:57:35,390 because climate change is it's an additional external stressor which is added to I mean, 526 00:57:35,390 --> 00:57:40,700 I would say personally that climate change is not the principal determinant of water problems in Basra. 527 00:57:40,700 --> 00:57:45,980 Others have said Iraqi water flows because of climate change, at least not yet, at least not yet. 528 00:57:45,980 --> 00:57:49,790 But it's a stress which is becoming more and more significant. 529 00:57:49,790 --> 00:57:55,250 And so you have to have a a kind of basin wide agreement fit for purpose, which is able, 530 00:57:55,250 --> 00:58:02,990 for example, to factor in variability form from climate change sort of stresses. 531 00:58:02,990 --> 00:58:07,370 It's possible is possible. Are there other watersheds have done it, other countries have done it. 532 00:58:07,370 --> 00:58:11,790 It just needs the political will. Thank you, Michael. 533 00:58:11,790 --> 00:58:16,710 Unfortunately, the clock is against us, and we've come to the end of our session, 534 00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:21,600 but thank you very much and I apology apologise to all of those who have you who posed the questions, 535 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:26,550 but we weren't able to answer within the time we could have talked about this for quite some. 536 00:58:26,550 --> 00:58:30,710 Give them some context, but you know, my long answers might be no, no. 537 00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:39,060 The fascinating, fascinating answer is quite quite the opposite. Michael, thank you and for full answers, which is always on a topic like this. 538 00:58:39,060 --> 00:58:43,140 We get a lot, a lot of questions, but thank you. Thank you very much, all of you, for coming. 539 00:58:43,140 --> 00:58:43,830 In fact, Michael, 540 00:58:43,830 --> 00:58:50,370 there's actually a lot of I've got a couple of questions about wanting to know where people can get hold of the report that you referred to. 541 00:58:50,370 --> 00:58:54,490 I know you held up. Yes, that one with what's the best way of getting it online is on. 542 00:58:54,490 --> 00:58:58,680 Go to Middle East Centre website. Hmm. Go to research. 543 00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:04,050 This is LSC Middle East Centre. I should probably point you. Yes. Or we can put it on ours if need be as well. 544 00:59:04,050 --> 00:59:09,120 We can share it. And so unless Millicent website go to research, 545 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:16,080 go to conflict research programme work and then you'll see the various projects in the conflict research programme Iraq. 546 00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,320 And this is one of them, a whole host of other stuff as well. 547 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:29,730 I should I should plug while I'm here, including some really interesting papers on on on protest in Basra, on politics in southern Basra. 548 00:59:29,730 --> 00:59:32,640 So in Basra government. So yes. 549 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:40,380 And if you want a hard copy, we have plenty of copies of the this in the Middle East, into office in London and listen to listen to offers. 550 00:59:40,380 --> 00:59:45,540 I just contact. Maybe we have to send you some free, of course. 551 00:59:45,540 --> 00:59:47,040 Thank you very much, Michael. We would. 552 00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:55,200 I was saying to Michael beforehand how how impressive the LSC Middle East Centre website was and with a lot of fascinating things on that. 553 00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:00,120 But I just wanted to thank Michael for an obviously fascinating lecture on the 554 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,350 detail of the knowledge that you've been been given here has given us again. 555 01:00:04,350 --> 01:00:06,660 As with many of these talks, rather sobering, 556 01:00:06,660 --> 01:00:12,900 but it gives us a better sense of the sorts of things that are going wrong and why they're going on and also the solutions. 557 01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:20,940 As Michael said, this is not a an anarchic situation. There are very, very clear reasons for why these things are happening. 558 01:00:20,940 --> 01:00:24,900 But thank you very much, Michael, and thank you very much, all of you, the audience as well. 559 01:00:24,900 --> 01:00:28,740 And for your questions and please get in contact with me. 560 01:00:28,740 --> 01:00:33,690 If you haven't been able to get through in this opportunity in terms of questions, yes. 561 01:00:33,690 --> 01:00:36,630 Thank you, Michael. Thank you for the thank you all of you for attending. 562 01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:41,280 And I look forward to welcoming you next week for those who are able to attend. 563 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:47,340 We will have Netta Cohen talking about environmental issues in the Israel-Palestine dispute, but thank you very much for this evening. 564 01:00:47,340 --> 01:00:50,730 Have a wonderful weekend and thank you very much again, Michael. Thank you. 565 01:00:50,730 --> 01:00:58,838 Bye bye.