1
00:00:05,580 --> 00:00:12,060
Good evening, everyone, both those of you who are here virtually and those of you who are here in the world.

2
00:00:12,060 --> 00:00:19,320
I am Walter Andrews. I'm chairing tonight's seminar and it is a great pleasure that our speaker is Marilyn Booth.

3
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:28,350
I've known since forever and she is the husband, Abdulla outSo professor for the study of contemporary Arab world title.

4
00:00:28,350 --> 00:00:32,700
She has extremely broad research interests. I'll mention just a few of them.

5
00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:37,620
She has written on early feminism and national, nationalist and Islamist discourses,

6
00:00:37,620 --> 00:00:44,340
and Arabic speaking world autobiography biography in the Arabism and Francophone Middle East and

7
00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:51,210
North Africa literature and politics of Arabic language arts and the history of Arabic periodicals,

8
00:00:51,210 --> 00:00:55,230
particularly satirical press and the women's press. On this, just a few.

9
00:00:55,230 --> 00:01:02,640
Marilyn often describes herself more as a historian who works on literature than as the literary scholar, but really,

10
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:12,330
she's just an exemplary scholar in terms of the interdisciplinary scope of her research and publishing in a literary and historical scholarship.

11
00:01:12,330 --> 00:01:16,800
She also does literary translation amongst her literary translations.

12
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:22,140
I think she has at least a dozen of them 18 18.

13
00:01:22,140 --> 00:01:33,420
I only found it just keeps me busy, especially with the ones that I mention is celestial bodies that many writers have,

14
00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:42,030
which won the international Man Booker prise in 2019, which is one of the major literary prises in the world which is given to a

15
00:01:42,030 --> 00:01:48,330
work of fiction translated into English and awarded equally to the translator.

16
00:01:48,330 --> 00:01:52,740
She's published too many works linked to tonight's lecture to mention all of them.

17
00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:57,300
I can't even begin to summarise the articles, book chapters and volumes.

18
00:01:57,300 --> 00:02:01,710
There are two monographs which is published since 2008, and I will mention.

19
00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:11,880
One is classes of ladies with clustered spaces writing feminist history through biography in Egypt, and the other is men who like to be multiplied.

20
00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:20,980
Biography, gender, politics and the agents. Tonight's lecture builds both works and is a book launch.

21
00:02:20,980 --> 00:02:23,680
She's been working on this book for a very long time.

22
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:34,240
It's unfortunate for those of you who are here virtually because there is going to actually be drinks after the lecture virtual drinks, I guess.

23
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,760
This is an intellectual biography of the early feminists saying Faraz,

24
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:45,310
who lived in the latter half of the 19th century and to study her life in Ottoman Syria,

25
00:02:45,310 --> 00:02:51,440
Egypt in the context of radical debates on gender, modernity and the good society.

26
00:02:51,440 --> 00:03:00,280
The title lecture is the same as the book the career and communities of the as feminist thinking and the stand this Egypt.

27
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:10,050
It's an honour to introduce someone who really is a giant in our field and our community, and so I gave you this renowned blue.

28
00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:14,400
Thank you very much, Walter, for that extremely generous introduction.

29
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,190
It's a pleasure to be here. I feel like I'm one family.

30
00:03:17,190 --> 00:03:25,050
That's not only because of Walter and Michael for a very long time, but it's just wonderful to be back in the Middle East,

31
00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:34,230
where so much of my intellectual formation has happened, and I'm delighted that this is the first in-person lecture that we've been able to have.

32
00:03:34,230 --> 00:03:43,470
I am, of course, given a lecture in person for over two years, so I have to see how it goes.

33
00:03:43,470 --> 00:03:50,790
In the spring of nineteen, hundreds of furious reaction erupted in the Egyptian press in response to the Arabic translation.

34
00:03:50,790 --> 00:04:00,160
Foreign Minister Gabriele Panopto titled Simply This Man, the French original, was aimed at a French audience and published in a Paris magazine.

35
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:08,640
It's quite an odd feeling for a Dutch final diatribe, with worries about France's imperial future in Africa for readers in Egypt.

36
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:18,060
It represented the worst of European imperialist Orientalism. Famously, Egypt's Mufti Mohammed Abdu responded immediately and eloquently.

37
00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:20,910
Many lesser known figures also responded.

38
00:04:20,910 --> 00:04:31,440
One intervention has gone unnoticed was an article by Cinepolis that appeared in the national newspaper and the web on the 20th of April 19.

39
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:37,710
And I just want to say before going on all the quotations in this talk or translation my translations from the Arabic.

40
00:04:37,710 --> 00:04:43,080
So if you have any questions about them, feel free to ask. Also, I'm not going to read the whole thing.

41
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,790
It's up there for you to get a taste, but I'll read parts of these quotations.

42
00:04:47,790 --> 00:04:52,890
So she says when it appeared on that particular day, we were at a women's gathering.

43
00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:58,650
One of the ladies picked it up and began to read it out loud as we listened until we got to the point,

44
00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:05,510
Key was quoted, excluding his comments on the Tomb of the Prophet and his accusations against the religion.

45
00:05:05,510 --> 00:05:10,290
So. When we heard this nonsensical operating, the sense of pride,

46
00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:17,490
honour and self-respect was erupting so strongly in the ladies council that we wish to incite a war in which they could fight.

47
00:05:17,490 --> 00:05:25,680
After some trenchant comments on the political and moral bankruptcy of the local man who will with the author, it turns to the spate of investigation.

48
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:31,860
The women's needed. Why could she said someone?

49
00:05:31,860 --> 00:05:35,550
I can come from the hands of women to resolve such a thorny problem,

50
00:05:35,550 --> 00:05:44,910
one which is stoning men when women are inside hijabs and have no ability to listen and find anything other ways to take political decisions.

51
00:05:44,910 --> 00:05:51,960
I say yes, we are inside cages and we're very few at present, but a rainstorm starts with a single drop.

52
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,290
The article went on to hear women's collective work.

53
00:05:56,290 --> 00:06:04,030
The women became determined to raise their sons and daughters on religious principles and national local manufacturers, et cetera,

54
00:06:04,030 --> 00:06:11,620
the assemblage of women determined that women who were imitating the Europeans as much as possible and none would deal with Europe's merchants,

55
00:06:11,620 --> 00:06:17,610
they would do business only with Muslim merchants. They would implant this virtue in the hearts of their daughters and thus,

56
00:06:17,610 --> 00:06:23,710
before a quarter century passes, no trace of European farmers will be found in the East.

57
00:06:23,710 --> 00:06:30,100
Now, this was years before the famous call for a boycott by post-war nationalist women in Egypt.

58
00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:35,860
So it's and it's not something that I've ever heard, seen, referred to note the language.

59
00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:44,140
What was probably a gathering of friends in a home takes on political heft and a split making a formal declaration of boycott.

60
00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:51,220
It's emblematic of this father's bold style. So we do not know whether a boycott was actually attempted.

61
00:06:51,220 --> 00:06:58,900
My book addresses the career of a writer whose views are strikingly distinct amongst the Arab leaders of her era.

62
00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:07,090
I consider Zainab Perez's writings and her other actions within the context of gender as a key axis of the 19th century,

63
00:07:07,090 --> 00:07:12,680
Arab acknowledged then as later as the step.

64
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,520
And also with reference to emerging anti-colonial sources,

65
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:23,780
the book traces one individual's tenacious engagement with contentious issues while embedding an individual's body of

66
00:07:23,780 --> 00:07:31,430
work within the communities of discourse of personal connexion and political negotiation in which it's often moved,

67
00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:39,640
spoke at times maintained silence. What I want to do is talk a little bit about her life history,

68
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:46,090
which is unusual and move from that into the whole problem of sources when what is trying to write a biography?

69
00:07:46,090 --> 00:07:51,190
I then want to talk about some key words which are part of my title book title.

70
00:07:51,190 --> 00:07:55,810
And to use that as a way to talk about what she wrote, focussing on her essays.

71
00:07:55,810 --> 00:08:03,550
I'd love to talk about the end of her life. It's absolutely fascinating, and it's also very problematic in a different way for biographers.

72
00:08:03,550 --> 00:08:11,170
But I may not have time. So you're very welcome to ask the questions and answers if you're interested.

73
00:08:11,170 --> 00:08:17,390
So I now want to put up another quotation from a letter that was sent to the Beirut newspaper,

74
00:08:17,390 --> 00:08:29,230
the standard in March 1890 was use eight years before she was writing and the rest of parts of this to the director of Gilead, it this.

75
00:08:29,230 --> 00:08:35,170
I cannot express my gratitude for your hard work to make women's standing visible in society.

76
00:08:35,170 --> 00:08:38,950
Speaking for my sisters Women of the East, I thank you for your efforts,

77
00:08:38,950 --> 00:08:44,710
and I think women of the West are striving to its excellence, surpassing the men in many areas.

78
00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:51,880
God willing, we'll get to the same place amongst countless writings when every branch of knowledge always sending our women,

79
00:08:51,880 --> 00:09:01,040
where a few utterances by unknown women or bits of poetry secluded in remote squares in the ancient world that no one is.

80
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:08,510
Vitally concerned, I began considering what it would take to create a force that would recognise and eliminate the excellence of women.

81
00:09:08,510 --> 00:09:17,630
I found no solution but to propose and comply other districts, which does not have to accept that and move to action, including everyone.

82
00:09:17,630 --> 00:09:22,160
But since this is the age of knowledge, such an important era in women's education,

83
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:27,750
I wanted to join the group with all the life histories I could get through the Senate.

84
00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:34,220
I call on my sisters who wish to have their life histories in my book to send them to me for my brother.

85
00:09:34,220 --> 00:09:39,100
Muhammad Ali is a lawyer in Cairo.

86
00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:47,350
The book she speaks of was a massive biographical dictionary of world women in Arabic, which saw the light of day in 1895.

87
00:09:47,350 --> 00:09:51,150
My previous monograph, The One That Walter mentioned there,

88
00:09:51,150 --> 00:09:58,990
that in 2015 was a history of this book because you can see how obsessed with this woman she monographs on.

89
00:09:58,990 --> 00:10:05,470
She just the letter. Her letter was a call for contributions and an app for her project,

90
00:10:05,470 --> 00:10:10,150
but it can also be seen as an implicit argument for women's writing autobiographically,

91
00:10:10,150 --> 00:10:17,590
highlighting their knowledge in an era when elite women's names were most often not made public, let alone their lives.

92
00:10:17,590 --> 00:10:25,150
Understated this may have been, but the summons was still a provocative suggestion about women as public figures,

93
00:10:25,150 --> 00:10:31,690
so my own assumption of a role in public life is the reason that I've long been fascinated by it.

94
00:10:31,690 --> 00:10:40,330
But the letter also conjures up a paradox, but his own biography does not appear in the volume or really in else.

95
00:10:40,330 --> 00:10:46,450
In fact, we know very little that is certain about the life and there are competing narratives.

96
00:10:46,450 --> 00:10:51,670
This biographical elusiveness from a woman who spent so much time compiling biographies

97
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:58,030
of others has certainly been a shifting factor in the way that I have written this book.

98
00:10:58,030 --> 00:11:04,450
Her life was starkly different to the lives of most of the small group of published rabbits that.

99
00:11:04,450 --> 00:11:09,350
Female writers in Egypt and the Ottoman Empire in the 1890s.

100
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:09,880
First,

101
00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:21,100
Boaz was born in South Lebanon in a Shiite community that was on the fringes of Arab Autumn and life by virtue of geography and communal longing.

102
00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:28,060
But it was also a community long known response and literary prowess as a Shia in her adult life in Egypt.

103
00:11:28,060 --> 00:11:37,230
Phyllis was with an absolutely tiny religious minority, and it isn't surprising that her she background is barely visible in the writings.

104
00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:45,220
Second, the West did not have a wealthy or learnt first family behind her, though she and her brother nearly had some cultural access.

105
00:11:45,220 --> 00:11:49,510
As a young girl, she became attached to the local feudal rulers Housewives,

106
00:11:49,510 --> 00:11:55,930
and she got her first literary training from the same year, but top spouse Ultimate Dancer last night.

107
00:11:55,930 --> 00:12:03,430
This is another unusual feature to be literarily trained then by a female poet in the south of Lebanon.

108
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:08,470
It's not clear when, how or why the West emigrated from Lebanon to Egypt.

109
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:14,650
There seems to have been a disastrous early marriage to an employee of the year and the subsequent divorce.

110
00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:19,960
Some sources claim that she then married in Egyptian military man, but there's no evidence for that.

111
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:26,110
And I suspect these sorts of actually female immigrating to the south of Lebanon, to urban Egypt.

112
00:12:26,110 --> 00:12:30,760
Unless it involves a husband, she may have emigrated with her brother in Cairo.

113
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:36,840
She probably lived with him, and I have to say something about his music career.

114
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:43,390
She began her published career with essays in major Arabic newspapers and came to

115
00:12:43,390 --> 00:12:48,280
the attention of another newspaper editor and began publishing in his journal.

116
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:56,020
These are rather fascinating, somewhat pathetic and understudied figures who I spent also spent a lot of time on in the book,

117
00:12:56,020 --> 00:13:02,290
as opposed to later on in the published many of her essays in this newspaper.

118
00:13:02,290 --> 00:13:08,520
I asked why she didn't publish there, and I scrutinised the news, gender politics as I do that.

119
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:16,150
But the more prominent newspapers that and appear in which I was published,

120
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:24,950
I also follow her work for the first Arabic magazine for women produced by women, which I see as a collective project.

121
00:13:24,950 --> 00:13:29,600
Boaz went on to publish your biographical dictionary, many newspaper essays,

122
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:36,350
two novels and a play well known at least to a very small community of newspaper and book readers.

123
00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:45,050
When she died in 1914, the obituary in the background was unusually long for a female, but it included nothing about her life trajectory,

124
00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:53,660
including her quite fascinating later life, which included another marriage and divorce and a stint this part of the city's spy network.

125
00:13:53,660 --> 00:14:01,770
After her death, her voice seemed to disappear in print, except for publications with entries from her biographical fiction.

126
00:14:01,770 --> 00:14:05,160
So she's a fascinating, intriguing figure.

127
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:14,100
Biographically pickup is not a traditional biography because so much is unknown, so I do do a lot of sleuthing and speculation.

128
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:21,240
In fact, the conflicting narratives that we have immediately raised a frustrating question When was she born?

129
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:27,090
The dates usually given are eighteen, forty six and eight and 60, and those are a generation apart.

130
00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:36,720
They would mean different things, but her relationships as a child and as an adult, for example, her mentor Flotsam of sight was born in 1840,

131
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:44,250
where they knew her contemporaries were 20 years apart in age difference to make things more interesting.

132
00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:50,520
I suspect that later in life, she rewrote her own biography, so it was never attributed to her.

133
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:56,070
A brief biographical notice surfaced in two texts in 1995 and 1996.

134
00:14:56,070 --> 00:15:02,970
I'm not going to read it, but just to say this is smooth like narrative hasn't worn in 1860, and with the ratings now,

135
00:15:02,970 --> 00:15:09,180
it's d'andrea as a child, with the family being educated by chefs and turning into a writer.

136
00:15:09,180 --> 00:15:15,930
Nothing about marriages, divorces, slightly problematic journeys and little ones.

137
00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:23,640
But with all this uncertainty, what does one do? Partly because of the lack of opinion, but also because this is the way it works.

138
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:31,800
I try to imagine animals and to read her within various communities of discourse while not ignoring her life.

139
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:37,890
This brings us to the terms I use in the book's title, which signal my sense.

140
00:15:37,890 --> 00:15:43,900
So I'm going to start with some of this thinking and then move into community, and I may or may not have time to get.

141
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:49,990
What feminism means in a 19th century context anywhere in the world is the question in this exercise.

142
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:54,970
Many scholars like feminism itself, the answers are varied and multifaceted.

143
00:15:54,970 --> 00:16:02,440
Drawing on alternative terminologies sensitive to the many ways women and men have sought to think about gender differentiation,

144
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:08,710
its sources and its effects. Some historians avoid using the term prior to the 20th century,

145
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:15,940
since feminism only emerged in the context of French activism in the late 19th century as a term.

146
00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:20,890
Others point to the multiple meanings the label had for those who did adopt it.

147
00:16:20,890 --> 00:16:27,130
Scholars of European colonialism emphasised the imperial legacies to which feminism has been put.

148
00:16:27,130 --> 00:16:36,760
But historians have more than narrative symbolism. The text debate the exclusionary racist outlooks of many white feminists, individuals and groups.

149
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,170
There's no single way to think feminism for any context,

150
00:16:41,170 --> 00:16:47,230
scholarship on Egypt in this period emphasises women's contributions to a vigorous public debate and

151
00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:53,830
to activity underpinning the emergence of the feminist movement in writing and publishing education,

152
00:16:53,830 --> 00:16:57,190
benevolence and politics.

153
00:16:57,190 --> 00:17:07,420
It's now recognised that before the 1899 male lawyer, plus women in Tahrir and which is so long been seen as initiating debate.

154
00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:14,140
Long before that, women and men were already deeply engaged in the question of gender norms and gender rights.

155
00:17:14,140 --> 00:17:19,420
Studies also highlight the importance of the women's question to the formation of Egyptian anti-colonial

156
00:17:19,420 --> 00:17:26,200
nationalism and associated women's discourses that critically assessed zero American societies.

157
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:33,160
Reformers sought legal and attitudinal changes to family structure as essential to the home grown majority.

158
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:42,160
They did this partly through an emerging discourse of companionate marriage, which was meant to encourage notions of gender and integrate women,

159
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:48,610
embrace national projects, but not always on the terms articulated by masculine leaderships.

160
00:17:48,610 --> 00:17:57,670
If women worked in anticipation of the nation and if what they said publicly aimed at reassuring audiences of their dedication to the nation,

161
00:17:57,670 --> 00:18:03,970
women's agendas were not only about the nation, nor were women in accord with each other.

162
00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:08,050
Confronting the discursive formation I study,

163
00:18:08,050 --> 00:18:15,690
I find it useful to think feminist as an analytic concept rather than as a label that captures what I think.

164
00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:21,160
So let's just say so I adopt an analytics of when I told them those things.

165
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,510
That's narrower than the descriptive usage of the term feminism often denotes.

166
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:34,180
This is not to suppress or denigrate alternative activism or to deny that their work changed women's and men's lives beneficially.

167
00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:38,650
But we can only understand the extent and the limits of change if we appreciate the

168
00:18:38,650 --> 00:18:45,370
range of use in one discursive context for Egypt and the Ottoman Empire in the 1890s.

169
00:18:45,370 --> 00:18:55,060
Such distinctions have remained isolated under addressing symptoms of structural, gender defined inequality in a hierarchical system.

170
00:18:55,060 --> 00:19:03,460
Some of this thinking in the way that I use it goes beyond the symptomatic to recognise and challenge underlying attitudes for the systems,

171
00:19:03,460 --> 00:19:08,610
whether defined as patriarchal male dominance or nastiness.

172
00:19:08,610 --> 00:19:14,930
And also to unpack social sexual structures that produced these symptomatic manifestations,

173
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:22,020
feminist thinking in this sense is distinguished from gender reform, which seeks to improve conditions for girls and women.

174
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:32,220
But without critique of the underlying system, reformers might regard such changes as necessary to modernise or perpetuate the patriarchal system,

175
00:19:32,220 --> 00:19:35,790
leaving its structure and its assumptions in place.

176
00:19:35,790 --> 00:19:42,750
These assumptions include a notion of national gender, the centrality of paternity and property transfer,

177
00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:49,530
the patrolling and attempted management of women's sexuality through formulations of Boehner to assert paternity,

178
00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:54,390
but also to discipline females and to absolve males.

179
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:58,860
It also includes this assumption of family members under the headship as the father.

180
00:19:58,860 --> 00:20:02,850
The rejection of women's authority. As formal community leaders.

181
00:20:02,850 --> 00:20:10,710
And their exclusion from political decision making. Buttressing the notion of the male head of household as a political subject.

182
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:19,350
It's very striking when one reads the books and articles on women by male reformers of this time and later that for most of them,

183
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:23,720
their notions of learnt domesticity and companionate marriage ambitions.

184
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,940
No changes in structures of authority.

185
00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:34,140
Thus, feminist thinking in the sense I use it as not only a betterment, although that's part of it, nor a struggle for equal rights.

186
00:20:34,140 --> 00:20:38,040
It's a politics grounded in an analysis of power in society.

187
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:47,310
The Palestine gender, as a fundamental human success with choice system, is a structure of hierarchy wherein the female is subordinated term.

188
00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:51,900
It is also a recognition that the most basic privilege of being classified

189
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:58,230
male is the right to define as low as to maintain that relationship of power.

190
00:20:58,230 --> 00:21:04,620
In other words, to declare what a woman is in Arabic as in other languages.

191
00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:08,730
The woman in question was a rubric under which multiple issues that were also

192
00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:15,210
very much about men were discussed with explicit focus was usually unanimous.

193
00:21:15,210 --> 00:21:20,610
And the notion of the male person as being since humanity unmasked by gender was

194
00:21:20,610 --> 00:21:26,820
one of the mechanisms by which this definition of authority was and is maintained.

195
00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:34,260
So feminist thinking entails not only the insistent display of patriarchy as a system that privileges authority,

196
00:21:34,260 --> 00:21:39,720
but recognition with the disciplinary means to maintain compliance for persuasion,

197
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:47,570
psychological pressure and research of tradition to legal structures to force acts and the threat of violence.

198
00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:54,650
What I'm saying. These are not new insights, I mean, I'm certainly not the first to define patriarchy in this way, by no means.

199
00:21:54,650 --> 00:22:01,110
But I think then there's been insufficient attention to the range of views within the early debates or gender,

200
00:22:01,110 --> 00:22:08,710
and I think it's important to try to understand that range of views and getting the.

201
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:16,870
Singapore is on the same topics as did others, the necessity for girls education, shortcomings in the marital regime,

202
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:22,030
the durability of beliefs harmful to personal health and men's bad behaviours,

203
00:22:22,030 --> 00:22:27,700
as well as their preferences, she wrote on issues of social justice and women's work.

204
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:31,240
And I have chapters in my book on each of these issues,

205
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:40,060
and I try very hard to make my chapters stand alone chapters so that nobody has to read the whole book, so I got to watch.

206
00:22:40,060 --> 00:22:50,530
But unlike most so, as his writings comprised a critique of the prevailing understandings of sex gender as defining individuals social possibilities,

207
00:22:50,530 --> 00:23:01,660
and her essay argue that keeping the relationship in place required and encouraged men's ongoing texts of psychological and physical coercion.

208
00:23:01,660 --> 00:23:09,850
And one of her earliest published essays, I Translate, the title is philosophy does not arise from material plenitude for posterity.

209
00:23:09,850 --> 00:23:13,810
But let us again the strong characterisations of married women's lives.

210
00:23:13,810 --> 00:23:22,660
She did so to rephrase and reject an argument made by those who oppose changing its practises, girls education and female mobility.

211
00:23:22,660 --> 00:23:29,860
The standard version is if girls were educated, they would become dissatisfied with their accepted life.

212
00:23:29,860 --> 00:23:39,970
They would be too uppity to do housework to occupied with purchasing luxury goods and initiating social engagements to be thrifty wives and mothers.

213
00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:46,990
So as constantly rewrote that argument in order to demolish it with her provocative plus.

214
00:23:46,990 --> 00:23:54,880
She suggested that the roots of this discontent. Thus, the reasons for denying females in education were something else.

215
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:01,690
So she sets it up here. And then she says the husband's argument is that if women learn the true nature of society,

216
00:24:01,690 --> 00:24:06,610
the circumstances of various classes of people and the way things are at present,

217
00:24:06,610 --> 00:24:13,900
the women would become the husbands assert now content with their lives where they would detest the rule of their despotic husbands

218
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:22,120
and the knowledge and learning to lead them to break the right of obedience and emerged in the news of bondage to the arena,

219
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:28,720
of course, is not what the husbands were saying, but it's her unpacking of the argument they're making.

220
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:36,700
She used hyperbole tactically. Her language mocked the spirit scare discourse, but those opposing girls education at the same time,

221
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:47,920
the text created a disconnect between these opponents use the free up freedom as a euphemism for young women's alleged sexual spatial improprieties.

222
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:57,140
Freedom as licentiousness and her own understanding of freedom as a space of self-realisation and a necessary world.

223
00:24:57,140 --> 00:25:01,030
Felicity, which she talks about later in the same essay,

224
00:25:01,030 --> 00:25:06,880
saying it means the ability to exercise one's intelligence for the good itself, family and society.

225
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:13,530
I argue in the book that this understanding of what we do is also fundamental to fiction.

226
00:25:13,530 --> 00:25:22,770
Perhaps, but with IS hyperbole was not hyperbolic, after all, through an accumulating lexicon of domination and perverse subordination for language,

227
00:25:22,770 --> 00:25:32,100
suggesting what it was that women would gain through education, not an investment in consumption or disdain for domestic work with the despotism

228
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:37,440
practised against them in marriage and the confidence to contest its outcomes.

229
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,480
Going further, though, as this writing suggests,

230
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:47,100
she recognises the concept of a natural division of labour based on constricting women's work to family maintenance,

231
00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:56,820
coupled with a patriarchal structure of authority, would not be an adequate basis for social relations founded on mutual recognition and consent.

232
00:25:56,820 --> 00:25:57,210
Again,

233
00:25:57,210 --> 00:26:06,000
I think this distinguishes her from those who interested in change on the ground did not see these structures as by definition subversive to women,

234
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:14,920
were detrimental to human relations. Many of the interlocutors espoused a different or separate but equal approach.

235
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,790
Women's work was just as valuable as men's,

236
00:26:17,790 --> 00:26:24,000
and it required and manifested equivalent mental and physical capabilities, but it was different from work.

237
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:29,850
This was the substance of the debate in print, as Lebanese writer kind of learnt,

238
00:26:29,850 --> 00:26:35,430
fiercely admonished women not to think about stepping over the threshold and out of domestic work,

239
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:45,540
and criticise British suffragists for doing so supportive of suffragists as exerting themselves for their own futures and their nations.

240
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:52,460
And she criticised women who didn't support them implicitly, including running as lazy.

241
00:26:52,460 --> 00:27:01,820
Romney didn't like this very much, a lot of debate. Romney's outburst maintained a separation between feminine families and masculine,

242
00:27:01,820 --> 00:27:10,370
or at least it did so in separate spheres is a prescriptive concept only unevenly and partially descriptive.

243
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:19,340
Boaz reminded Peroni that many women in Egypt and Europe had long worked outside the home to support themselves and their families.

244
00:27:19,340 --> 00:27:24,950
The very definition tradition public private is a fairly recent concept of European origin,

245
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:32,420
first in the labour and spatial transformations of the Industrial Revolution and capitalist organisation with relations with production,

246
00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:37,880
which benefited from maintaining a notion of male breadwinner with women's unmatched work in

247
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,610
providing necessary support that Egypt in the Ottoman Empire were entangled in an uneven,

248
00:27:43,610 --> 00:27:48,920
European led global capitalist nexus by the late 19th century before.

249
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,080
That may have encouraged the grafting on this notion of gender labour division

250
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,660
to existing spatial social codes that were already well entrenched locally.

251
00:27:59,660 --> 00:28:05,060
But so, as is writing, offers a reminder that this was not uncontested.

252
00:28:05,060 --> 00:28:10,790
Her final submission in the debate with Romney is perhaps a statement of a non-essentials

253
00:28:10,790 --> 00:28:15,230
stance that also rejected a static state historical view of gender roles.

254
00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:19,790
And I'm sorry again, I wish I had time to read all of these.

255
00:28:19,790 --> 00:28:28,550
So as did not contest the ongoing reality of women's and men's lives as differently cited physically and in social roles.

256
00:28:28,550 --> 00:28:33,230
But she rejected notions of hierarchical, different sanctions by nature.

257
00:28:33,230 --> 00:28:38,210
She did not celebrate women's special qualities or argue that they were different people,

258
00:28:38,210 --> 00:28:44,540
though she did insist that women's reproductive work be respected and valued as labour.

259
00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:49,310
She insisted that there was no realm of work that women as a category did not form,

260
00:28:49,310 --> 00:28:56,180
even as she noted that in the here and now elite Muslim women's accustomed spatial social practises did,

261
00:28:56,180 --> 00:29:04,910
in a practical sense, bar certain kinds of work. Thus, Phyllis acknowledged the ongoing social consequences of sexual difference.

262
00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:10,160
Concepts that maybe some innocent people have emerged within the context of Western Europeans,

263
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:20,660
but specifically a doctrine of abstract individualism reading in terms of that's in relation to a constitutive paradox.

264
00:29:20,660 --> 00:29:27,470
The abstract individual as basis of the political self was qualified in the human world politics.

265
00:29:27,470 --> 00:29:34,580
Your categorical exclusions, including out of date from the revolutionary political self-image of the French

266
00:29:34,580 --> 00:29:40,260
Revolution or from the liberal rights period such of British Common Law.

267
00:29:40,260 --> 00:29:50,900
Yet women had to appeal to that abstract rights during subject that human entity on the basis of a gendered selfhood that the abstraction erased.

268
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:59,480
One might argue, on the other hand, that those who based their outlooks in an Islamic ethical field did not face this dilemma.

269
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,420
Rather than an abstract disembodied subject,

270
00:30:02,420 --> 00:30:11,300
one might seek a model in the embodied and gendered relievers equally responsible before God, as addressed in arms.

271
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:19,220
But whereas Islamic positioning undergirded the argument for a non patriarchal non-essentials viewpoint or gender,

272
00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:25,010
invoking the Shariah as a universal moral code for human rights.

273
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:29,840
At the same time, and crucially, like her male reformist peers,

274
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:35,990
women such as spouses argue that law and other social institutions formulated from time

275
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:42,740
theory readings of the foundational texts of Islamic practise were not designed ordained,

276
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:47,510
but were the changeable products of human interpretation. And in that way,

277
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:57,740
she was very similar to some of the very well-known male modernists debates in Arabic and the politics of gender were entangled with and terminus,

278
00:30:57,740 --> 00:31:03,530
where it's important to keep this in mind. Debates are occurring literally across the world.

279
00:31:03,530 --> 00:31:08,020
Women and men in Egypt were aware of what was going on elsewhere.

280
00:31:08,020 --> 00:31:16,540
Feminist and other gender activists, including anti-feminist arguments and initiatives in many places.

281
00:31:16,540 --> 00:31:22,510
Heated arguments were part of local discourse. No simple borrowing, but rather savvy adaptations,

282
00:31:22,510 --> 00:31:28,750
the kind of lateral thinking we can appreciate gender activism and within them feminism's

283
00:31:28,750 --> 00:31:34,720
as local police presence while remaining sensitive to particular trajectories,

284
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,370
Lopez perceived your actions as part of a trans societal concern.

285
00:31:39,370 --> 00:31:49,070
But this does not mean she saw four interventions as derivative. It often seems to be assumed that Arab intellectuals borrowings from Western sources

286
00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:55,640
constituted new standards and that these new ideas supported more flexible gender regimes,

287
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:01,880
the whole Westernisation thing while introducing modern notions of domesticity.

288
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,780
But this is only part of the story. Reading the Arabic press,

289
00:32:05,780 --> 00:32:11,360
it's evident that narrowly restricted often anti-feminist or even misogynist

290
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:17,240
European pronouncements on gender were conserved and translated just as avidly.

291
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:24,140
A Republican, pundits who were anti feminist cited European authorities in support of the socialist nature,

292
00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:28,550
threatening to use that as an excuse socialist organisation.

293
00:32:28,550 --> 00:32:32,720
In an for debate, which is the subject of one of many chapters.

294
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:38,450
Physician feminists use biomedical distress developed in Europe to shore up

295
00:32:38,450 --> 00:32:44,210
a deeply conservative resistance to women's activism and even their speech.

296
00:32:44,210 --> 00:32:50,500
His misogynist outlook became more pronounced, with women challenging in France.

297
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:54,490
It's also been assumed, although I think recent work changing this,

298
00:32:54,490 --> 00:33:02,020
that it was the Western were westernised Syrian Christian immigrants who were the main conduits of these imported ideas.

299
00:33:02,020 --> 00:33:07,490
To the extent this is true, it's important to keep in mind that they often drew on European figures,

300
00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:16,120
his writings and generally highly patriarchal views of gender congenial to prevalent indigenous patriarchal outlooks,

301
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,220
often based as western Europeans on readings of the Bible.

302
00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:26,020
Egyptian courts and Muslims also pervade the range of European views.

303
00:33:26,020 --> 00:33:35,170
But it's important to remember that identity. Two categories are not very useful in identifying individual stances on the meanings of gender.

304
00:33:35,170 --> 00:33:40,750
Although an individual's background training is really quite flexible, Typekit varies.

305
00:33:40,750 --> 00:33:44,410
They used. So we're talking a little bit,

306
00:33:44,410 --> 00:33:52,360
moving a little bit to the question of community policing feminism within the broader field of the women question or more accurately,

307
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,680
the gender question. We see the posted right on the same issues that others did.

308
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,220
That was different emphases on girls education.

309
00:34:00,220 --> 00:34:07,570
She emphasised non gendered aspirations for the good life, which, in her view, the educated she seemed.

310
00:34:07,570 --> 00:34:12,100
She emphasised education as a means to no one's rights. That's just one example.

311
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:18,460
She moved between incisive analysis of attitudes and calls for practical action.

312
00:34:18,460 --> 00:34:24,700
The latter might get women to work together. Performative me if it's they were already working together.

313
00:34:24,700 --> 00:34:29,590
As in the 1990s, it's no response for rhetoric and choices.

314
00:34:29,590 --> 00:34:35,090
Then you sometimes target female leadership, sometimes non gendered one in late,

315
00:34:35,090 --> 00:34:40,450
as she addressed the women of Egypt as a category in need of self-examination.

316
00:34:40,450 --> 00:34:45,820
She held different communities of gender, of state of origin belonging.

317
00:34:45,820 --> 00:34:51,970
Observing as work in public discourse means not only considering it genetically and generically,

318
00:34:51,970 --> 00:34:58,570
but also considering how she noted the arguments and to whom she was speaking for communities of disparate.

319
00:34:58,570 --> 00:35:06,520
She was a forthright and often quite impolite debater, in a sense unusual for a woman.

320
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:16,270
I want my readers to enter the rhetorical space of that decade to sense the ways that feminist and many others talk about these issues.

321
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:19,720
A methodology of deep listening, which is what I try to practise,

322
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:25,240
requires attention to multiple and contentious discourses of key words such as progress,

323
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:31,990
civilisation, rights, nature and still listening in on the rhetorical uses of terminology.

324
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:39,550
The categories through which people argued is a reminder of its intelligence and creativity of any intellectual debate,

325
00:35:39,550 --> 00:35:48,820
even as one also registers its conditions of possibility. Attending to conceptual vocabularies aspect of language the uses of ambiguity,

326
00:35:48,820 --> 00:35:58,030
irony and silence means asking how writers situated themselves within certain conventions, only to push against visual mediums.

327
00:35:58,030 --> 00:36:07,120
Also, we have to wonder how language use might intersect with generous on what risks did women take in using the language of?

328
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:14,230
Or how could women enter the language of jurisprudence? An arena almost exclusively mastered the centuries.

329
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:20,500
These questions are just crucial because poets and other women have not only to engage the gender question,

330
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:29,650
but also to enact the intellectual subjectivity that some, such as an employee, tried to deny to women.

331
00:36:29,650 --> 00:36:37,000
So my approach highlights for epileptic tactics her reliance on the standings of social mobilisation articulated

332
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:45,620
as Islamic for knowledgeable yet original these spaces and her goals way of engaging interlocutors.

333
00:36:45,620 --> 00:36:51,110
In a long running debate with a minor official in the customs administration,

334
00:36:51,110 --> 00:37:01,070
Boaz addressed the exploitation of late versions of its pharmacist and its sources as a patriarchal mechanism to keep women subordinate and unhealthy.

335
00:37:01,070 --> 00:37:11,810
Marriage foes use logic arguments of history and knowledge of Islamic sources to reject spouses understanding of gender as implacably cyberspace.

336
00:37:11,810 --> 00:37:14,120
Based on his reading of the creation story,

337
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:23,060
the prostitution and the Pelosi wanted this text from the notion of Australia as a principle of gender hierarchies.

338
00:37:23,060 --> 00:37:31,460
We began to seriously serially publish in the magazine for talks in early 1893.

339
00:37:31,460 --> 00:37:41,810
Very soon, so is under a pseudonym attacked him in the same journal, initiating what became a very complicated exchange in your newspaper.

340
00:37:41,810 --> 00:37:45,440
I read a piece by the distinguished writer Christina Affinity Fallacy,

341
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:51,590
where he manifests as thorough partisanship towards the sex, showing his prejudice towards our women.

342
00:37:51,590 --> 00:37:58,820
Women, sex and other matters. The truth of which I will make clear to them as long as we preserves the edifice of exchange.

343
00:37:58,820 --> 00:38:08,540
If he does not, I will abandon reasoned debate and renounce and reject his words openly that he proceeded to do over the next couple of months.

344
00:38:08,540 --> 00:38:17,520
And I'm just going to give you again, not reading it, but just a taste of how ferocious responses escalated in tone and how she used satirical.

345
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,550
Except your arrogance compelled you to depart from the requirements of proper ideas.

346
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:30,470
And she calls him an escalating, oh, shameless scholar. You are indeed the philosopher of the age and so forth.

347
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:32,510
She uses this to great effect.

348
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:40,550
The exchange, amongst other things, does show how visceral the debates over the meaning of Islamic sources to contemporary gender politics were,

349
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:43,800
at least for some teenagers at that time.

350
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:52,230
As the debate suggests, community sports are not always comfortable and supportive wherever feminism has existed,

351
00:38:52,230 --> 00:39:01,320
so has the best such throughout Europe the 1890s for a decade of feminist activism and therefore the fact that women have faced

352
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:10,320
scorn and hostility for airing their ambitions is not in any simple sense about women's accession to public political rights.

353
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:15,900
Surveying 19th century gender rights in Britain, when Britain argues that quote,

354
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:24,040
it was men's power in a private spirit that was perceived to be threatened by proposals to give married women the right to vote to.

355
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:33,120
And simply put, indeed, a sports masculine authority were perceived to be weakening the need to sort of felt in strongly.

356
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:41,550
We see this in the 80s and 90s Arab media states as male editors who would declare themselves supportive to women's new visions for

357
00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:49,900
public engagement with sharply critical of women who chose to write about rights for girls education and their very explicit about it.

358
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:55,150
We women, we need you to write about child care. Stop writing about rights.

359
00:39:55,150 --> 00:40:04,180
When in 1892, powers are given the kind of running on the appropriateness of British women's suffrage in an Egypt occupied by Britain,

360
00:40:04,180 --> 00:40:06,220
no one has political rights.

361
00:40:06,220 --> 00:40:14,140
In a sense, this gives more significance to the turbulence that as a support for British suffrage and stood up for arguments,

362
00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:20,900
could not possibly have any foreseeable impact in the local.

363
00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:28,880
The suggestion was too much for the liberal man who generously published women's votes in their newspapers, like Members of Parliament in Britain.

364
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:38,960
These male arrested some intellectuals were anxious to maintain masculine authority in the family by defining a clear sexual division of labour,

365
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,530
including what women were allowed to write about.

366
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:50,570
Thus, to the Senate, the House could not agree on suffrage, even as the editors presented themselves as supporters of women's rights,

367
00:40:50,570 --> 00:40:55,570
and they were the ones who defined what they meant by women's rights.

368
00:40:55,570 --> 00:41:05,620
Several years later, a supporter of hers, Ahmed, ordered the same editor of Science News newspaper of Japan celebrated the pre-eminence of a journal.

369
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:10,840
I am a woman, Zainab poses amongst the published Women Writers of the Time.

370
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,480
But in the same breath, we chided her for having extreme views.

371
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:23,580
Assuming the rightness of masculinity necessarily meant a review of male behaviour as responsible and benign xenophobe,

372
00:41:23,580 --> 00:41:31,440
as few other women suggested that men's conclusions about male behaviour and sexual behaviour,

373
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:39,480
they knew the tensions between notions of what was 12 of companionate marriage and implacable masculine misery on the phone.

374
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:45,790
They knew the degree to which companionate marriage rested on female minds.

375
00:41:45,790 --> 00:41:55,380
Now, I would love to talk about Korea, but I don't want to go on too long, so maybe it's just kind wrap up, this is up to you.

376
00:41:55,380 --> 00:41:59,290
We'll we'll go to the reception when you finish.

377
00:41:59,290 --> 00:42:08,020
OK. All right. I'll just quickly say, like other writers who is engaged in self-promotion activities, sending ebooks to newspaper editors,

378
00:42:08,020 --> 00:42:16,090
responding promptly when a periodical got something wrong or omitted her name and rejecting others critiques with her view.

379
00:42:16,090 --> 00:42:25,360
I've given you a taste of her debating style. Forceful and persistent in later life, she negotiated restrictions on female seclusion as older women,

380
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:32,530
especially older single women, could do, and that's what she was. And she was a physical presence in journal offices.

381
00:42:32,530 --> 00:42:39,400
She had to make her own living in that time and with some evidence that she actually tried to do this by puzzling her own books in households that,

382
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,670
just like no women to her own life,

383
00:42:42,670 --> 00:42:53,920
did not adhere to prevailing expectations for women year the choice that she made to be single writing and publishing to future marriages, actually.

384
00:42:53,920 --> 00:43:02,170
And just the way that she was so out there, so public and the way she was growing and other women to be public led me to call her worth a career.

385
00:43:02,170 --> 00:43:07,570
Most important thing is her insistence throughout that women should be public figures.

386
00:43:07,570 --> 00:43:11,350
She used the rhetorical conceit a number of times,

387
00:43:11,350 --> 00:43:20,170
addressing men as a group of declaring that she and women generally could see the men clearly through hijab as a hijab,

388
00:43:20,170 --> 00:43:28,160
as gender segregation, someone's failing through access to newspapers, through women's conversations and for discussions with men.

389
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:35,070
Public relations work was neither invisible nor inaccessible to women.

390
00:43:35,070 --> 00:43:41,460
No career, however, becomes a fixture of some irony influences later life, as does disability.

391
00:43:41,460 --> 00:43:46,500
But she became a paid informer for the palace in the last decade of her life.

392
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:54,780
And ironically, the only real evidence I have of her daily life are the reports that she wrote for the Palace.

393
00:43:54,780 --> 00:44:01,050
And they are totally fascinating, and I translate a number of them in the final chapter of my book.

394
00:44:01,050 --> 00:44:03,600
I can't go into you here. It's way too complicated.

395
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:13,830
But basically, she was asked to spy on the households of various figures and as her handlers said when he wrote to the city saying,

396
00:44:13,830 --> 00:44:20,220
I've got this woman, I really want to hire her to do because he says, after all, men don't know how to keep secrets.

397
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:24,420
They tell their wives everything and their wives, which tells them everything.

398
00:44:24,420 --> 00:44:31,710
And they told her a lot. This is really uncomfortable. However, as a biographer, as a feminist biographer,

399
00:44:31,710 --> 00:44:40,140
as somebody who identifies with withstand process and has worked under a long time because at this point in her life,

400
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:49,830
you are betraying people, using girls education cynically and trying to draw other women into the spy network.

401
00:44:49,830 --> 00:44:53,460
This is not really this kind of wants to find,

402
00:44:53,460 --> 00:45:02,460
but I think in a way it's really good because not only is it fascinating and it shows how important households and women were to the political scene,

403
00:45:02,460 --> 00:45:10,020
and it also shows how much the women knew. She transcribed conversations amongst the women about the latest newspapers that have

404
00:45:10,020 --> 00:45:15,060
started publishing and who runs them as these women know exactly what's going on.

405
00:45:15,060 --> 00:45:21,930
But it also makes when you think about the messiness of life and the fact that we cannot idealise our

406
00:45:21,930 --> 00:45:30,270
subjects and we have to take in all these parts of life and acknowledge that messiness is about it.

407
00:45:30,270 --> 00:45:36,240
So in some ways, this feminist thinking, French, partly Islamic ethical worldview,

408
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:40,830
this distinct not only from prevailing separate but equal views of gender abilities,

409
00:45:40,830 --> 00:45:47,370
but also from prevailing modernist views, imposing a non-essentials, open ended notions of gender.

410
00:45:47,370 --> 00:45:52,890
This is really quite remarkable, so that leads anywhere, not just in Egypt.

411
00:45:52,890 --> 00:45:57,330
Her approach is particularly striking given the durability of the notion of fixed,

412
00:45:57,330 --> 00:46:06,460
biologically determined gender assignment, but still includes debates on Islam and gender so often not always supported.

413
00:46:06,460 --> 00:46:10,510
Her rhetoric was not about identity, but about positioning.

414
00:46:10,510 --> 00:46:16,450
It was less about protest itself than about her sense of audience and the persona she wanted to protect,

415
00:46:16,450 --> 00:46:21,730
and actually she very saw lexicon, according to the audience, who is very savvy about that.

416
00:46:21,730 --> 00:46:29,470
On one level, she gives an Islamic lexicon to describe aspects of a particular everyday practise.

417
00:46:29,470 --> 00:46:36,580
On another level, she applied it as a universal word, potentially shareable grounding for the good society.

418
00:46:36,580 --> 00:46:44,560
On occasion, she chose terms associated with Islamic practise to characterise Europeans and non-Muslim women.

419
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,480
I'm not suggesting that this was cynical. Surely it founded in personal belief,

420
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,190
but it was still a rhetorical political choice that it became more pronounced as

421
00:46:54,190 --> 00:46:59,290
a speaking position and as a collective identity and related writings provides a

422
00:46:59,290 --> 00:47:04,900
graphic example of how European Islamophobic discourse around nineteen hundreds

423
00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:10,990
helped to create the Muslim solidarity that this same disparate soldier fought.

424
00:47:10,990 --> 00:47:14,860
I've only been able to give you a taste of process work, right?

425
00:47:14,860 --> 00:47:22,300
And I haven't even touched on the novels for play, but I hope this suggests the vitality and intensity of late bottoming out,

426
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:26,470
including Egyptian intellectuals engagements with questions of gender,

427
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:34,870
meaning a central to understanding political and social organisation in a changing world of gender assignment,

428
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:41,800
which I was accused the misogynist doctor difficulty of mislabelling as this tyranny

429
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:47,050
that you found nature and just in one of her many contributions to public debate.

430
00:47:47,050 --> 00:47:51,220
Thank you very much. OK.

431
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:58,630
I neglected to mention at the beginning, perhaps because I was dazzled by the presence of a live audience for the first time in two years

432
00:47:58,630 --> 00:48:05,170
that those of you who are attending remotely can ask questions by using the Q&A function on Zoom.

433
00:48:05,170 --> 00:48:09,340
And so if you take your questions there, I will try to read it out.

434
00:48:09,340 --> 00:48:14,860
And if you want to be anonymous and safe, but otherwise I will identify you when I read your question.

435
00:48:14,860 --> 00:48:23,560
I have a question about her sheer background. I mean, in my early contemporary experience,

436
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:35,320
I have sometimes been taken aback by the negative attitudes expressed towards shades by Egyptians who have never actually met a real person.

437
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:40,240
I'm guessing that in the late 19th and early 20th century, things were very different,

438
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:50,740
but I'm wondering what level of awareness there was of her background and whether it mattered to people and if so, how?

439
00:48:50,740 --> 00:48:57,760
And I was actually also wondering if are from the background gave her a kind of insider outsider status,

440
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:07,690
which perhaps lends itself to things like espionage, but also lent itself to things like her relatively radical issues.

441
00:49:07,690 --> 00:49:11,740
Those are all really good questions, and I've wondered about them a lot.

442
00:49:11,740 --> 00:49:20,290
The only place that I've seen where her sheer background comes in explicitly in her writings is in her biographical dictionary.

443
00:49:20,290 --> 00:49:29,770
There are actually more biographies of either Shiite or protege or supporters of Ali than you might expect.

444
00:49:29,770 --> 00:49:42,460
And whenever she mentions the name Alia, she says she either says a lot about the word or my own, my own.

445
00:49:42,460 --> 00:49:48,220
So there's a little bit of a thing there, but it's it's pretty, pretty minor.

446
00:49:48,220 --> 00:49:52,300
It's really hard to know how much people knew and what they thought.

447
00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:59,860
And in some ways, in some cases, it seems that people even assumed that she was Egyptian, which, you know,

448
00:49:59,860 --> 00:50:05,800
then you might think, Well, this kind of suggests that maybe she did immigrate pretty early if she found it.

449
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:11,440
You know, it's one of these many question marks that we have. It also may be because she wasn't.

450
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:18,070
These may have been people who didn't hear her voice. After all, she was sitting at home writing and sending things to newspapers.

451
00:50:18,070 --> 00:50:23,920
But even a couple of these newspaper editors kind of assume that she's Egyptian or seemed to think so.

452
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:28,600
And so it's very there's just none of the biographies.

453
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:35,610
Is there anything? And she is celebrated, as I mentioned the editor inside an insider.

454
00:50:35,610 --> 00:50:41,980
You know, he celebrates her in his journal, which is a journal of human history and identity.

455
00:50:41,980 --> 00:50:49,510
But I'm not saying I don't think people in Egypt are really reading that, and so I'm not sure how many people really, really did know.

456
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:54,100
And then what difference does it make? Who knows? I mean, it's a big question mark also.

457
00:50:54,100 --> 00:50:58,930
Here she is with all these quite radical views. She was also monolingual.

458
00:50:58,930 --> 00:51:01,330
She didn't read any European languages.

459
00:51:01,330 --> 00:51:10,030
I'm not suggesting that it would have to come from Europe, but I mean, it's just that she's she's somebody who you might not expect this or did that.

460
00:51:10,030 --> 00:51:16,000
It had something to do with having this somewhat unorthodox background.

461
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:22,840
Did it have anything to do with being, Gee, I can't. I don't argue that it does, because I have no, that's just too speculative.

462
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,650
There's just no indication, but it's interesting to think about.

463
00:51:26,650 --> 00:51:30,670
Sorry, that's not a very good answer, but that's the best, I guess.

464
00:51:30,670 --> 00:51:38,120
So I want to tag along with that question, actually, because it reminds me of a funny.

465
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:46,450
Yeah, I should say so in a funny experience.

466
00:51:46,450 --> 00:52:05,080
And I've got a collection, and I thought you said some speculation about whether this is possible to do.

467
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:10,520
And as far as I can tell her so of participation in those debates in.

468
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:20,480
The 20th century as a guest, a Muslim, I mean, she she seems to be pretty participating in Sunni debates as much as any of the debates,

469
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,880
and I just wonder, are these identities becoming more salient now?

470
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,780
I have a similar experience to Walter about going there.

471
00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:33,830
And yeah, yeah, I think it's a good question.

472
00:52:33,830 --> 00:52:39,980
I think it take a lot more collective research to think about these.

473
00:52:39,980 --> 00:52:47,480
I think the really important questions. I mean, you know, maybe both of these identities weren't maybe a salient thing, but at the same time,

474
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:54,470
maybe they did give somebody more of an insider outsider perspective that made it easier to kind of step back and see things.

475
00:52:54,470 --> 00:53:03,320
And that's that's that's that's quite possible. It would be great to have some kind of collective research project where we could look at all these

476
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,810
figures and just try to pick some of this apart and look at some of their writings and think,

477
00:53:08,810 --> 00:53:14,780
is there a way in which we can see this as somehow linked in to these these identities?

478
00:53:14,780 --> 00:53:20,420
So, you know, I would love to explore that more. On the other hand, as you may have gathered for my paper.

479
00:53:20,420 --> 00:53:26,360
I'm very wary of sort of linking in identity because that so often is done.

480
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:32,100
I'm so sick of this. Like, Oh, the westernised Syrian Christians did this and the Muslims did that.

481
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:36,500
Well, it's not that straightforward. And so I'm a little bit,

482
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:44,600
but I do think these are absolutely fascinating questions and especially these kind of people coming from these various kinds of minority backgrounds.

483
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:53,030
What does that give them? So again, I don't have more of an answer, but I think it's a great question to think about.

484
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:57,440
But let me read one of the online questions, this is from Rosa Marks.

485
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,940
Your question is, first of all, she says, thank you so much for your talk. I was just wondering,

486
00:54:01,940 --> 00:54:11,960
do you think to as is and means conceptions of modern woman and modern gender relations had a positive effect on Egyptian women as a whole,

487
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:23,390
which I think is kind of a legacy question or longer language that is also an extremely good and difficult question, as I said early on.

488
00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:27,500
You know, she kind of disappears from view after her death,

489
00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:34,760
except that quite a few writers go on using entries from her biographical dictionary, reproducing those.

490
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:40,070
So you see those and you see them not only in areas that you see them in Turkish, for instance.

491
00:54:40,070 --> 00:54:47,150
It's really it's really rich, and I'm not sure I need to do more thinking about her legacy.

492
00:54:47,150 --> 00:54:51,540
Originally, I was going to do that in this book, but I kind of ran out of steam.

493
00:54:51,540 --> 00:54:56,420
It was already too long, and I also kind of thought, maybe it's just going to end with her death.

494
00:54:56,420 --> 00:55:06,630
Let's leave it there. And I think one thing to think about is that so she just died a few months before World War One started and after the war,

495
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:11,160
things have changed and there was a whole new generation of activists.

496
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:19,640
And also, I think because she wasn't Egyptian, she kind of wasn't remembered in the same way that some of the Egyptian figures,

497
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:24,080
such as ancient time, would not accompany nocif for remembrance.

498
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:29,150
It's really hard to know. I wish I knew more about the impact, but there isn't.

499
00:55:29,150 --> 00:55:35,150
Unfortunately, there isn't really any evidence that people were reading her after the war.

500
00:55:35,150 --> 00:55:43,370
So part of me, as much as I think she's amazing and she's worth studying there is always that if she's not, you know, if her work doesn't last.

501
00:55:43,370 --> 00:55:52,610
But I do suspect that probably at least for the relatively small number of activists, probably her work was significant.

502
00:55:52,610 --> 00:55:59,810
And in that sense, we might see a longer kind of influence, but I can't point to any very specific way.

503
00:55:59,810 --> 00:56:09,500
And in fact, I think she's much more radical in her thinking than a lot of the debates that have gone on since then.

504
00:56:09,500 --> 00:56:17,960
I think you're right. I was just wondering if you could elaborate a little bit of wide spread outside of Egypt.

505
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:26,510
Yeah. Again, I don't know, and this is always when one is a text in that period readership so very hard to parse.

506
00:56:26,510 --> 00:56:35,030
She did write, and she probably was read to some extent because some of these journals that she wrote in We know,

507
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:38,000
located outside of Egypt and even outside of the Arab world,

508
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:46,730
in fact, admired was always having problems with the British, not allowing it into India or the French not allowing it into Algeria.

509
00:56:46,730 --> 00:56:51,740
So we know there were attempts and we do know that people elsewhere did read these,

510
00:56:51,740 --> 00:56:56,610
and some people in Europe were reading these these journals because you get letters coming in.

511
00:56:56,610 --> 00:57:02,810
I'm reader of yours. I lived in London and here right now. Of course, they're not really within London, but still.

512
00:57:02,810 --> 00:57:05,990
So now, of course, I can't say for sure if they were reading her, but they were.

513
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:07,580
Definitely there were these.

514
00:57:07,580 --> 00:57:16,010
These newspapers were circulated, and one thing that is really interesting about her is that she definitely had a sense of getting herself out there.

515
00:57:16,010 --> 00:57:21,320
She wanted is clear that she wanted to be in the major newspapers and she probably published in the

516
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:28,730
Mail both because she was a congenial place and its editor really became kind of a mentor to her.

517
00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:31,430
And also because he probably just gave her more space.

518
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:38,510
We don't know in terms of the other editors, did they say, Oh, well, we've published you once or twice, that's enough.

519
00:57:38,510 --> 00:57:42,890
Or, Oh, we didn't realise how wonderful it is for women to be single.

520
00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:53,830
So we're not going to publish anymore. We don't. We don't know. We do know with the said of her, the Beirut newspaper that the Ottoman censors.

521
00:57:53,830 --> 00:57:59,250
And about late 1894, early 1895.

522
00:57:59,250 --> 00:58:06,030
Actually, come to the offices of the Senate of the House, and they say we've got all these articles with women's names on them.

523
00:58:06,030 --> 00:58:12,840
Are these really by women? And the editor says, Oh yes. And he says we'll just stop that because women should not be writing these things.

524
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:21,030
And it's. And I had it before I found that that source, I had wondered, because there is a point where instead of [INAUDIBLE].

525
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:24,450
Suddenly there seemed to be no women. And you're like, What's going on?

526
00:58:24,450 --> 00:58:32,740
And it was it is around the same time that as such that the first women's magazine, which I also talk about a lot in the book got started.

527
00:58:32,740 --> 00:58:36,640
So you think, well, maybe these women just kind of migrated from the centre?

528
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:44,880
But it seems there was also there was also a push. So I think they were being read, but it is not an easy kind of situation.

529
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:49,800
And of course, we have to keep in mind that the numbers of literate people were small.

530
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:54,720
On the other hand, newspapers did get read out loud, as we see in that wonderful vignette.

531
00:58:54,720 --> 00:59:00,660
She's talking about the Women Reading Alliance. So, you know, it's hard to I think some people did.

532
00:59:00,660 --> 00:59:07,560
But again, I have no, I don't have any sort of like letter to an editor saying I read of sources.

533
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:16,710
I mean, other people talk about in in other journals, they talk about, Oh, you know, we read what the wonderful fellows wrote.

534
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:19,830
But again, you don't know how seriously we take that, really.

535
00:59:19,830 --> 00:59:29,370
It's because this is also part of a sort of culture of mutual pats on the back amongst journalists and the small number.

536
00:59:29,370 --> 00:59:34,830
They're always either they're either praising each other or they're totally casting insults.

537
00:59:34,830 --> 00:59:41,300
I mean, it's like nothing. So. So it's very hard to know how seriously to take some of that.

538
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:48,380
But she also featured a couple of times in the the Hurston's magazine of the tattoo shop.

539
00:59:48,380 --> 00:59:54,650
And that was a magazine that got around. I mean, it definitely got all over the Ottoman Empire.

540
00:59:54,650 --> 00:59:58,670
It got to Latin America. It probably got to parts of North America.

541
00:59:58,670 --> 01:00:02,330
So she would have been read by some people.

542
01:00:02,330 --> 01:00:13,460
I wish I knew more with more questions coming in from our remote audience, although some of them are quite cheap already dealt with.

543
01:00:13,460 --> 01:00:20,480
But I'll read the names of the people who are asking the same question again wants to know how close were

544
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:27,620
so as his ties to her native Lebanon after she left and what kind of influences to provide outside Egypt.

545
01:00:27,620 --> 01:00:34,160
The Gillam says Wonderful talk of Maryland, definitely, as Zainab implies, this feminist and so many ways.

546
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:42,830
I'm wondering about her relations with rural women in Egypt and who that working with other women within Egypt and neighbouring Arab countries.

547
01:00:42,830 --> 01:00:47,840
I had one question also from Campbell Padgett, about respire,

548
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:58,090
and his question was whether she did it for financial exigency as he spends money or did she have some higher motive for her?

549
01:00:58,090 --> 01:01:07,940
OK, sorry. The first question was, well, there's two. There's two more questions about the rand reach essentially have more influence when I get one.

550
01:01:07,940 --> 01:01:18,670
One with Lebanon. OK, I'm sorry asking that same question, but also whether she had any sort of impact in rural Egypt.

551
01:01:18,670 --> 01:01:23,030
Yeah, OK. In terms of Lebanon. That's a really fascinating question.

552
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:26,690
Again, because she she never went back to General Ahmed.

553
01:01:26,690 --> 01:01:31,530
As far as we know, she did a couple of times.

554
01:01:31,530 --> 01:01:35,580
The family came to Cairo and she apparently saw them.

555
01:01:35,580 --> 01:01:42,200
But there's a whole tragic sub layer to that family as well, which I'm not going to go into.

556
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:53,630
She was this editor I mentioned Adefisayo was very interested in her and published a number of her works, and he published several biographies.

557
01:01:53,630 --> 01:02:00,620
Although these are part of the problematic, I mean, I don't know, it's like one of my sources that contradicts other sources.

558
01:02:00,620 --> 01:02:08,390
But anyway, so he was very keen that people in Lebanon should know about her, and I think she did become a little bit of an icon there.

559
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:15,440
But as I said at the same time, he praised her for being, you know, she's writing and she's made I'm her famous,

560
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:21,860
but she has such extreme views, you know, so so there's this kind of this kind of double edged thing.

561
01:02:21,860 --> 01:02:28,340
And then also she I mentioned a second marriage and she actually this is also interesting.

562
01:02:28,340 --> 01:02:35,750
She went to Damascus. She contracted a marriage by mail and online.

563
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:45,050
Well, I mean, you know, online dating, she married without having met him.

564
01:02:45,050 --> 01:02:55,370
A guy named Adeed Nelson, who which was a kind of minor writer, journalist and a civil servant, and she married him and went.

565
01:02:55,370 --> 01:03:00,410
And so the contract was already made and she was still in Alexandria. He was there.

566
01:03:00,410 --> 01:03:06,770
He went to join in. The marriage only lasted about two and a half years, and there are various things that are said about it.

567
01:03:06,770 --> 01:03:10,100
One is that he forgot to mention a couple of details for her,

568
01:03:10,100 --> 01:03:20,480
the fact that he was married to three other women and that he expected her to apparently to educate the daughters of their own.

569
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:29,990
Also that she she went kind of crazy because they were in devout person, that he actually was a civil servant in a small village in the end.

570
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:35,690
For some of this time, she could not get Egyptian newspapers in the house, and she really hated that.

571
01:03:35,690 --> 01:03:40,010
So she ended up demanding a divorce and going back to Cairo.

572
01:03:40,010 --> 01:03:44,420
But she did have. While she was into the reason I'm mentioning this as well, she was in Damascus.

573
01:03:44,420 --> 01:03:52,250
She apparently did have a sort of small salon that men came to, and as was true of the other salons,

574
01:03:52,250 --> 01:04:02,810
some of the other salons we know at the time she would sit behind a screen and whatever salon, so she was known to some people.

575
01:04:02,810 --> 01:04:05,060
We don't know how widely,

576
01:04:05,060 --> 01:04:15,740
and Lebanese feminists have been very pleased to be able to claim her as a native daughter and to just see her as a forebear.

577
01:04:15,740 --> 01:04:23,630
So she definitely there's I mean, when I say the legacy questions, it is really tricky because early on I don't know.

578
01:04:23,630 --> 01:04:30,260
But she's become now that she's become now more of a figure and people want to claim for and so forth.

579
01:04:30,260 --> 01:04:36,020
So. Randy, thank you for coming. Relations with rural women.

580
01:04:36,020 --> 01:04:41,480
This is really interesting, too, I think more than relations with rural women.

581
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:49,940
She was she definitely. I don't know how, how much of a sort of personal contact this was.

582
01:04:49,940 --> 01:04:56,360
But she wrote about urban working women a number of times and about the plight of servants.

583
01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:07,160
So again, unlike most of the other people were writing on gender at that time, she really shows a pretty deep sympathy, at least with working class.

584
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:12,290
And she also talks about rural women, and she does this over and over again to say,

585
01:05:12,290 --> 01:05:18,560
you know, stop talking about women sitting at home because most women in Egypt don't.

586
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:29,330
They're out working. So she definitely had a sense of women, you know, rural and urban working class women as an important,

587
01:05:29,330 --> 01:05:35,850
you know, as a really significant group that she cared about and she was very sympathetic about.

588
01:05:35,850 --> 01:05:44,910
The spy in question, OK? I think it's both my sense of it is that she definitely didn't need the money.

589
01:05:44,910 --> 01:05:53,230
There's no question, in fact, when again, when her handler writes this fascinating letter to the palace, ostensibly to the KGB,

590
01:05:53,230 --> 01:05:58,910
other probably other people are reading it but saying, You know, I've got this woman that I really think can help us out.

591
01:05:58,910 --> 01:06:05,370
You know, she'll need to be paid. He says, you know, she used to live with her brother, but now she's alone,

592
01:06:05,370 --> 01:06:11,850
and she goes around women's houses trying to sell her books that are just so amazing.

593
01:06:11,850 --> 01:06:16,020
So she really did. She definitely needed money. But I think it was more than that.

594
01:06:16,020 --> 01:06:23,430
I think she really liked these reports of hers are amazing, and she writes them with relish.

595
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:31,860
If you feel like she loves this, you know, and again, which is right, and she's always kind of showing with the way she writes,

596
01:06:31,860 --> 01:06:37,810
she's showing whoever is going to read these things, how good she is at this spy games.

597
01:06:37,810 --> 01:06:42,090
You know, she's almost like saying, you know, look at me, look how look, how well I'm doing this.

598
01:06:42,090 --> 01:06:46,230
She is very good. I have to say she's very good at it, it seems.

599
01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:51,190
So I think she really she really kind of.

600
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:55,840
Enjoyed it, I don't know if that's the right word, but she found some kind of satisfaction in it.

601
01:06:55,840 --> 01:07:04,330
She also in this she went over and above what the handler, at least as far as we know, told her he would not.

602
01:07:04,330 --> 01:07:10,330
I don't think he would have told her as a woman to go, go and visit male journalists.

603
01:07:10,330 --> 01:07:14,620
But she did. So we have a number of times where she's reporting, and it's fascinating.

604
01:07:14,620 --> 01:07:20,830
She reports on a conversation she has with procedure that she goes to the office of Elmina.

605
01:07:20,830 --> 01:07:25,120
And she has. This amazing conversation was received about the British.

606
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:35,170
Another time she goes and she talks with one of the editors and whether it's the person or not, I'm not sure, but it probably is.

607
01:07:35,170 --> 01:07:39,880
So she was really quite fearless. She wanted to be out there.

608
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:45,970
She was also a great supporter of most of the cameras. The important nationalist leader.

609
01:07:45,970 --> 01:07:57,130
And in fact, she was supposed to declaim a poem on behalf of the women of Egypt at his 40 day commemoration after his funeral.

610
01:07:57,130 --> 01:08:03,520
That funeral got short circuited because there were just there was such a precious people they apparently couldn't keep it going.

611
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:10,870
So I don't think she never actually stood up and claimed it. But her column was printed along with all these poems by men.

612
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:19,520
So she really, I mean, I think she really felt like she very much wanted to be out there in the world and to do these things.

613
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:24,550
And, you know, once she was older, she could get away with it. And she did.

614
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:30,640
But the question is, did she actually have any kind of did she feel like, you know, was this an act of loyalty to the party?

615
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,460
I mean, did she have political reasons for doing this?

616
01:08:33,460 --> 01:08:40,960
I just don't know, because it's sort of contradictory because one of the people she's spying on is one, for instance,

617
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:48,460
is one of Canada's most trusted deputies, and she's basically partly responsible, probably for sending him to jail.

618
01:08:48,460 --> 01:08:56,140
And he was also a great supporter of women's rights. So it's very, very hard to know what what are the political investments here?

619
01:08:56,140 --> 01:09:01,540
Are that? Is this a conundrum? I want to do some more writing and thinking about those five reports,

620
01:09:01,540 --> 01:09:08,290
and I do have a chapter part of a chapter on them, but I think they deserve more attention.

621
01:09:08,290 --> 01:09:24,968
OK, thank you for a great job. Great book on top of the other great art and was going to celebrate three the reception and thank you.