1 00:00:00,330 --> 00:00:03,630 Petula, everyone, thank you for joining us this evening. 2 00:00:03,810 --> 00:00:09,660 It's a pleasure to have to talk about Hungary as a speaker this evening. 3 00:00:10,470 --> 00:00:19,500 The debate in Hungary is the chairman of the Syrian British historian and also the director of Rethink Evolved Society. 4 00:00:21,090 --> 00:00:28,230 Haitham graduated from University of Damascus Medical School in 1999. 5 00:00:28,530 --> 00:00:39,440 He was detained in Syria. As a political resident from 2003 to 2004 for his civic activism. 6 00:00:40,850 --> 00:00:45,320 This happened in his hometown valley in rural Damascus. 7 00:00:46,130 --> 00:00:51,430 He came to Manchester in 2007 to complete his Ph.D. graduation. 8 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,190 After he's completed his speciality in 2001, 9 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:04,130 he helped establish Rethink civil Society as a manchester based charity supporting Syrian refugees and asylum seekers. 10 00:01:05,830 --> 00:01:15,729 In 2019, he co-founded a Syrian for this story as a political body amplify the voices 11 00:01:15,730 --> 00:01:23,680 of the Syrian Independent and looking for an inclusive and democratic Syria. 12 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:40,030 Everyone that is how. Some of them also some said they felt germ of the sandwich from sometime. 13 00:01:40,270 --> 00:01:47,130 Article published in 2000 might two to to be the voice of working group on behalf of seniors almost all 14 00:01:47,150 --> 00:01:53,830 the members of society and should be working for the Syrian refugees and asylum seekers in Russia. 15 00:01:53,830 --> 00:02:00,700 So York. They are going to talk about the conflict in Syria from my personal experience. 16 00:02:01,210 --> 00:02:08,350 So because of stories I would move towards some political things, 17 00:02:08,350 --> 00:02:18,759 which I'm sure maybe most of you know better than I should of a resource that some of the slides contain doesn't contents, which some it was. 18 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:24,550 Well, if I is them. So this is the podium in a program. 19 00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:30,430 Syria is blessed with just a beginning. 20 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,890 Syria and in 2003, the population was around 23 million. 21 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,580 They are more than 50 and about 20 ethnic and religious groups. 22 00:02:43,570 --> 00:02:50,140 And they get into the majority of what we have also Kurds, Syrians, Circassians, 23 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:59,770 other we have religiously the majority are Muslim, Sunni, but also we have otherwise Shia Christians. 24 00:03:00,550 --> 00:03:07,090 I think we have is the Christian churches, churches, these six Christian sects. 25 00:03:07,090 --> 00:03:16,060 And in Syria we have also Druze in the past, but they most of them left after the establishment of the Israeli. 26 00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:20,610 This is Syria, which is really nice. 27 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:27,600 Maybe you can tell us more about this, this beautiful Syria. 28 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:36,270 Unfortunately, I won't want to talk about this beautiful Syria. I'm going to talk about the Syria beef. 29 00:03:37,170 --> 00:03:48,100 So there is another Syria believe I local story, not story, just like this one filmmaker who was visiting by mail phone. 30 00:03:48,480 --> 00:04:01,050 And so he was visiting there in 1990 something and he was enjoying the links there with the ancient places. 31 00:04:02,270 --> 00:04:10,290 Suddenly he knew that there is a very notorious prison there, which, as you well know, doesn't exist in the past. 32 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,549 So also from Homs, a long story. 33 00:04:14,550 --> 00:04:24,629 Maybe I should start from the coup in 1963, but then again in 1970, houses of the father of the current president, 34 00:04:24,630 --> 00:04:31,650 Bashar became president through, of course, he remained until he died in 2000. 35 00:04:32,190 --> 00:04:35,250 He killed or imprisoned all of his opponents. 36 00:04:35,850 --> 00:04:42,750 Bashar became a president after his father inhabited, but is not capable of this sort of thing. 37 00:04:43,410 --> 00:04:46,770 What you have is like he became Elizabeth after his father. 38 00:04:47,540 --> 00:04:51,809 And in terms of political changes of who are not changes, 39 00:04:51,810 --> 00:04:58,100 nothing happened like just there were some changes in the financial situation of how they 40 00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:04,470 the relationship with Western countries or have not in the human rights aspects in Syria, 41 00:05:04,740 --> 00:05:10,160 unfortunately. So what does it mean to live under the shadow regime? 42 00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:15,349 When we talk about dictatorial regime, we think about how to build a regime. 43 00:05:15,350 --> 00:05:23,240 You can't be a consultant to principles, you can't be a minister or you can't participate freely in politics. 44 00:05:23,870 --> 00:05:27,200 It's more than that. It's not only about politics. 45 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,870 This ideology affects every single movement of their people. 46 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:44,299 So let's start with the first major lesson like life, when I suppose my father in law and his wife, let's say imam, 47 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:49,250 or a teacher whose teacher would have died in 2000, 48 00:05:49,790 --> 00:05:58,879 he was from a mosque and the government ordered all imams to praise the late president and his son Bashar. 49 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:10,190 In the final speech. I, a couple of years before that, only give an ordinary speech without mentioning Hafiz or his son at all. 50 00:06:11,150 --> 00:06:16,910 Because of that, they arrested him for two months, more than two months in very bad condition. 51 00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:24,200 Offers up in 2001. There was some. 52 00:06:26,380 --> 00:06:31,880 The relaxation of the situation said it's let's not see. 53 00:06:31,930 --> 00:06:36,280 I we were like, uh, it was just it w w something. 54 00:06:36,820 --> 00:06:44,350 So a group of young people, including myself at that time, tried to participate positively in our society. 55 00:06:44,650 --> 00:06:52,240 So we started by opening at 11 of what we were about 20, 30 people, men and women. 56 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,990 Every one of us give up on 5100 bombs. 57 00:06:56,710 --> 00:07:03,910 We had a basement. We collected all books and followed the relatives and cousins. 58 00:07:03,910 --> 00:07:10,540 And we put them in the basement and we make it open for probably just two days. 59 00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:17,980 The dogs, the security forces or the secret police or whatever you want to call it, They can just do this. 60 00:07:18,460 --> 00:07:28,660 They can close the library article, discredit more than one book because of this, because the others, including Biden, I don't know why. 61 00:07:28,660 --> 00:07:32,790 They just think that there's something wrong in the violence. 62 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:45,280 I started my journey with the security forces on this, especially since that time they invited us for a daily interrogation of their offices. 63 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:49,200 Every day we should go there and just to stay. 64 00:07:49,650 --> 00:07:54,240 Sometimes they ask some questions, which is covering the money. 65 00:07:54,420 --> 00:07:58,530 What's wrong? What's your aims of opening this library? 66 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,040 Who asked you to do that? All of these things. 67 00:08:03,510 --> 00:08:09,090 They leave us at night doing that every day for 40 days. 68 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:15,450 So that was first. The other things they left us, but they didn't give us the loads. 69 00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:24,090 But in 2003, I'm jumping, of course, because we were told again many times, 34,000 to come. 70 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:32,130 But in 2003 there was the invasion of Iraq at that time as a number of hostages. 71 00:08:32,340 --> 00:08:36,300 I have my own idea of the sort of social change which we need to. 72 00:08:36,930 --> 00:08:42,000 What are the countries that say we should do something, something positive also? 73 00:08:42,150 --> 00:08:46,770 So we have to be some time is about time to do things ourselves. 74 00:08:46,770 --> 00:08:54,299 On the social side of things should be something good before before we ask for very great changes in our society, 75 00:08:54,300 --> 00:08:57,900 like, for example, fighting America at that time, 76 00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:07,360 because many people thought that we are going to fight America in Iraq and they many us join the fight against the like against America. 77 00:09:08,790 --> 00:09:14,459 So we had those three governments antismoking campaign, anti-corruption campaign. 78 00:09:14,460 --> 00:09:18,180 We will talk about the bribery in Syria. It's very unfortunate. 79 00:09:18,180 --> 00:09:25,290 It's very common practice in Syria to bribe the judge or to give bribery to a policeman 80 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:30,890 or to do a job that you will by giving bribery to the gathering of the Israeli. 81 00:09:34,010 --> 00:09:38,540 We had been camping. Well, we went on the streets of our city earlier. 82 00:09:38,780 --> 00:09:53,259 I lived in the. About a year ago surrounding the schools, we went to the sense of making this campaign again to set it up so we should be positive, 83 00:09:53,260 --> 00:10:01,510 not waiting for the government or do for anyone else thought to be positive instead of us, we should do something good. 84 00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:07,420 And we finished like a silent march against the invasion of Iraq. 85 00:10:08,620 --> 00:10:14,770 I think also that just the days of the vote, the security forces are less than 24 of us. 86 00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:24,969 Myself, my father in law. So that was the second time my father in law was obviously at the beginning that with us in the 87 00:10:24,970 --> 00:10:30,970 presence of the security forces launches and the massacres in the basement of those countries. 88 00:10:31,810 --> 00:10:39,490 Three months of interrogations. Again, sensitive questions from why you did this and the aims. 89 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:49,029 What is the name of your political party? So first thought, for example, today they would beat me, so to say, the mood of the political party, 90 00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:57,879 which I did the following today, is the cinematographers that I have that you don't talk political party, both of you. 91 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:04,570 You would have a political party in the future at the foot of business, in the centre of the. 92 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,510 You repeat that. Good to get them the ends of my principles. So. 93 00:11:09,310 --> 00:11:21,760 So it's like the art of Ghost. At the end of the year they will get to you and you give your fingerprints on papers without taking them. 94 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,580 So you don't know exactly what, but you are happy when they give them that. 95 00:11:26,590 --> 00:11:32,340 Your fingerprints. That is up the first interrogation. Now that's another step. 96 00:11:32,350 --> 00:11:45,260 Now, so that we finished those interrogations, they released some of us, six of them, and sent us a bunch of the that they sent us to. 97 00:11:45,570 --> 00:11:58,479 That's a so my reason that once a person was locked up, but like now, now it is stolen, but that it was better from combating today. 98 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,670 It was much better after being there for a month. 99 00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:07,210 Or do they sent us to seek the truth military court. 100 00:12:09,830 --> 00:12:17,220 It is. This is always talk about Syria and those are not what you see all of these different origins. 101 00:12:17,610 --> 00:12:21,860 Everything is having names without any any meaning. 102 00:12:21,860 --> 00:12:25,260 So let's call it what it is, not because it's secret field. 103 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,550 Military secret means that it's secret. Completely secret. 104 00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:39,499 They took us from the prison, of course, blindfolded us a closed bomb, and took us some one, which we don't know where from. 105 00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:43,760 The bomb is just one by one to a small room. 106 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:53,150 Now it is sealed because that is that is not no lawyer, no charges, nothing. 107 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,730 Just like the one I found military judge in this uniform. 108 00:12:58,190 --> 00:13:01,250 So here we are alone. 109 00:13:01,820 --> 00:13:06,150 Again, not nobody is. We are. What do you start to do? 110 00:13:06,670 --> 00:13:09,920 He didn't set it up. These are the charges. 111 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,310 Or what's the this he just started for? Fight them. 112 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,180 Okay. So this is your own ability to do this. 113 00:13:17,180 --> 00:13:25,700 Their actions in the future, I said I'm going to go was like this system for the benefit of my image. 114 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,009 Is that so? And so the charges are already secured. 115 00:13:31,010 --> 00:13:34,160 You open your prison for life. 116 00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:41,600 And then they said they ask for the medicine. 117 00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:46,110 Why would I ask for justice? Because of that. 118 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:52,190 You get me out of this. What? We are here. They sent us, none of us for three years. 119 00:13:52,190 --> 00:13:59,520 Imprisonment is simply my friend myself for four years imprisonment. 120 00:13:59,540 --> 00:14:03,870 And they said both of us. There was a reason because they consider that us. 121 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,490 That is an insult to the court when I said I spoke. 122 00:14:08,610 --> 00:14:14,030 So they give me an additional I want you to do something profiling. 123 00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:21,030 I'm not going to talk about that solitary confinement. Just like when they push me, they give me something out of this and again, 124 00:14:21,690 --> 00:14:30,819 took me downstairs to let them know like what was coming up and so pushed me inside, 125 00:14:30,820 --> 00:14:36,059 closed down, said, you know, like I thought, this is this person I should've stayed with. 126 00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:40,320 You know, of course, that just by the way that they sentenced me, 127 00:14:40,980 --> 00:14:47,340 I heard that there was a delay on another trial, just like because they just you know, me. 128 00:14:47,610 --> 00:14:51,570 I didn't know that they sent me on all of these things. 129 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:58,320 You know, I knew them. Some of them after two years, some of them after he was released. 130 00:15:00,180 --> 00:15:06,960 So. So you they go to you that you are like, this is this is this is the way of the court. 131 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,120 Yeah. So that's what I was again very cold. 132 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:24,240 I, I touched a bruise, I bone two blankets so I, it was one put the mirror the one to, to talk my body very concerned. 133 00:15:24,270 --> 00:15:30,059 I don't know if you will survive. That's what one hope is and and positive. 134 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:37,620 So about December January there about 50 centimetres of snow outside so it was very cold. 135 00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:46,230 I think Jenkins ordered the volume of my jacket the whole seven months I spent this know. 136 00:15:47,140 --> 00:16:03,060 And this one I want to have someone with in the frozen water so I have to shower with frozen water until I just sort of put the everything back on. 137 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:14,620 How do you know this story about one book when they took me out of the solitary, said that was that is that in my life until now. 138 00:16:14,620 --> 00:16:24,310 I remember when they called, when I got home with, you know, they said I wasn't at home, 139 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:31,890 but it was I was I, I had just at that time, but I had two children. 140 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:36,760 So I help my mother, my brother, I had my citizenship. 141 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:44,620 But all of this is not how they are done that moment in time, because we are all the same. 142 00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:52,440 Their connection with the outside world. Of course they don't us. 143 00:16:52,620 --> 00:17:03,090 They don't let anyone tell us. My father knew that reason that he can three days off to go to the US building. 144 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:15,040 Luckily enough, they allowed him in because they know that not only are the events, one of the officers, the officer we all seen. 145 00:17:15,370 --> 00:17:19,109 I was under his feet. He was in the first floor. 146 00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:23,640 I wasn't in the basement, he said. We never seem to find them somewhere else. 147 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,430 Well, my father is like me, you know that. 148 00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:31,590 Unless I got something, he was. 149 00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:43,650 After three months, they knew that the group is in prison and they applied for a visit. 150 00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:47,680 Luckily enough, they. Mission Impossible. 151 00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:54,920 So it was the first visit, but the visit is where the visit to me, I was understood and the sort employed. 152 00:17:56,530 --> 00:18:01,690 They took me out so as to I above body of the soldiers. 153 00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:09,520 But we are still. We don't see anything. It's just like, how are you until you will be out of order, like 20 minutes. 154 00:18:09,530 --> 00:18:16,330 Like they even they did not want to touch my wife or my children or my parents. 155 00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:22,000 So it was more the larger than life happiness. 156 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:28,710 The visit to the office. The second visit of the age was from the first as well. 157 00:18:28,810 --> 00:18:34,570 I was lucky of the others. I met people who never have any visits for three or four years. 158 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:45,130 All of this attention is luckier than those who were in that war or other bloodshed in 2005. 159 00:18:45,490 --> 00:18:54,070 My father tried to do something active to release me and others, so he established some of his friends, 160 00:18:54,970 --> 00:18:58,990 something called the Committee of the Families of Political Prisoners. 161 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,570 And immediately the following day they did not sit on the street, was doing his work. 162 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,380 They did not him and took him to a security branch. 163 00:19:09,220 --> 00:19:16,840 But they released them after one month because at that time, as you see, some human rights organisations outside see the force. 164 00:19:17,470 --> 00:19:21,280 They mentioned his name. So there was like some news about them. 165 00:19:21,550 --> 00:19:25,420 So they they missed him of the time of August the month. 166 00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:37,680 And I was amazed often after my mother in November 2005, after three one half years in prison due to a visitation, 167 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:46,930 I this one because there was pressure on Syria at that time because of what happened in Lebanon and living at that time, 168 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,760 only they hated the bloody stuff but then was assassinated. 169 00:19:52,170 --> 00:19:56,120 I then led to the it was behind the other. 170 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:03,100 There was like a resolution of the U.N. to the security initiative in the Johnson under Article seven. 171 00:20:03,460 --> 00:20:12,700 So if they don't cooperate with the investigation, things out of the news, not even military solutions can be applied. 172 00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:15,430 So they were like thinking about time. 173 00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:24,640 So they tried to make some compromise with their own people to see the regime so that at least 193 political prisoners. 174 00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:30,850 I was lucky enough to be one of them. We were about one four was we? 175 00:20:31,390 --> 00:20:41,540 We were just. So this is an example of young people trying to function positively in the society, 176 00:20:41,660 --> 00:20:47,950 being the seeds of some campaigns against smoking, against poverty. 177 00:20:48,980 --> 00:20:55,940 An old man like my father was arrested just because he's asking for the release of his son. 178 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,900 We know that this situation will not continue like that. 179 00:21:00,110 --> 00:21:11,420 People would say enough is enough. Something that happened, for example, what happened in the jihad in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Yemen at that time. 180 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,670 So in March 2000, the Syrian people started their own uprising. 181 00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:20,750 Others started by. Others have a tough battle. 182 00:21:21,090 --> 00:21:30,020 There is a positive result in Syria, where some took because of the gulf against the regime on the walls of schools, the school, 183 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,030 the security forces led by the cousin of Bashar al-Assad, arrested them, 184 00:21:35,030 --> 00:21:42,259 tortured then they didn't like that, took them off when their families asked for their release. 185 00:21:42,260 --> 00:21:46,270 Except forget your children, go to your wives are being YouTube. 186 00:21:47,890 --> 00:21:57,080 That sparked the thirst for this. In the end, they did it because of a shot, killed four people that died in the street. 187 00:21:57,650 --> 00:22:08,750 Thus far more focussed in the eyes of many brothers that we work in Syria and from north to south. 188 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,170 In many cities, those protests started. 189 00:22:12,620 --> 00:22:22,430 Usually this protest happened after 5:00 because all the Muslims should go inside the playoffs. 190 00:22:22,790 --> 00:22:28,490 So it's an opportunity which the government can't prevent because people should go to the player. 191 00:22:28,790 --> 00:22:35,690 So this was an opportunity for people to gather there, understood the protest from outside the mosque immediately. 192 00:22:36,170 --> 00:22:46,400 So every Friday you would start by maybe ten, 2000, 200 brothers every Friday. 193 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:56,600 So at the beginning, nobody mentioned toppling the regime or like they don't want Assad because they were afraid. 194 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:05,390 And to be honest, it was the demands of the people, the job, the first, let's say, then Fridays. 195 00:23:05,870 --> 00:23:13,640 Jonathan Freed Freedom. Freedom almost wanted to help us and more Syria freedom enough for adults. 196 00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:21,740 But then, of course, when you talk to political people too, and this was mentioned, does this for, you know, free election, 197 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:30,470 which often and has been the end of the dictatorial regime of then this goes up all of these bloggers, 198 00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:38,330 even by the admitting the regime, it admitted that it was peaceful for more than six months. 199 00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:48,620 Every Friday, they showed protesters as they've killed tens, hundreds of one Friday, 200 00:23:48,620 --> 00:23:57,530 and then they sent their security forces to the houses, arrest tens of thousands of protesters from their own houses. 201 00:23:59,150 --> 00:24:03,740 At the beginning, they were like they them to be too harsh. 202 00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:09,560 So they arrest people sometimes 5 to 10 days and release them sometimes one month. 203 00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:15,200 For example, I would talk about my father. My father participated. 204 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,060 It was 21st of March 2011. 205 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,760 The only chanting and that I have interests for about this is my father. 206 00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:39,410 He was working silently. I thought the job was free, though pleased that they understood the first time on 1st of May for one month this was okay. 207 00:24:39,650 --> 00:24:48,650 The situation was not that bad. So they they tortured him, but the food was enough to survive. 208 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,780 They left him the other day about the hope. 209 00:24:53,780 --> 00:25:03,050 Never went out of his arms, never except to bring bread or something, that they arrested him again in September 2012. 210 00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:17,820 Well, this night for five months of the torture. They decided to come back in September 2012 again for another focus on the US. 211 00:25:18,150 --> 00:25:28,740 What are you thinking, Peter, that would take you off the radar? So when he was released the third time, we couldn't breathe the usual lives. 212 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:38,760 You should leave. We don't believe that. We would agree that the first time since he was arrested, I was just like it was okay. 213 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:45,120 The second time I was one of the first time was one it because I knew the extent of the torture. 214 00:25:47,210 --> 00:25:52,160 So it wasn't it wasn't easy for us so we could do other things with Syria. 215 00:25:52,400 --> 00:26:01,549 The trouble with my mom was the second time we took my brother Mohammad, my youngest brother, with him, and again, 216 00:26:01,550 --> 00:26:09,800 they they tortured him and he was lucky enough to be released after six months to Jordan and often Jordan. 217 00:26:09,810 --> 00:26:12,820 He went to Germany and is in Germany. 218 00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:27,220 Either that from my father in law, he didn't participate in the protest and he was against his brothers because he said Assad is a brother. 219 00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:31,870 The whole international community is backing him. 220 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,560 Nobody wants to change it. From America to Israel to Iran to Russia. 221 00:26:37,570 --> 00:26:44,940 All of them need him and he will never stop until next year to go on the ground. 222 00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:49,090 He would get everyone before, so he was against the Jews. 223 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:59,510 But just because he was non-political and because he's against the regime, they took up again when this all just came to his house. 224 00:27:00,110 --> 00:27:05,240 They took him from his office and on the 15th of July, 2011. 225 00:27:05,870 --> 00:27:11,370 Andrew, anything about him at all, even if he's still alive? 226 00:27:14,980 --> 00:27:22,060 The lives of those in prison. You know, there's plenty of documentation records. 227 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:30,130 This is a boy doing 2012. I wanted to die documenting 35 missiles of torturing, sitting in prison. 228 00:27:31,420 --> 00:27:39,390 This was I was involved at the beginning, of course, But I made those reports because I knew everything, 229 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,970 not only because I saw some of them when I was in prison. 230 00:27:43,870 --> 00:27:47,530 My father told me, you know, they tortured him. And I me how they don't show him. 231 00:27:48,610 --> 00:27:55,900 They literally killed them, under which they tortured them, many of them, until they got by all. 232 00:28:01,010 --> 00:28:04,669 These are some of my friends from not just the examples. This is my friend. 233 00:28:04,670 --> 00:28:08,450 One year before you enter the prison, This is two days after. 234 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,370 This is a hours before this is when released. 235 00:28:15,050 --> 00:28:20,360 But the most horrible, horrible thing happened to the Syrian people was Cesar. 236 00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:32,480 Cesar is a fake name for a military photographer, was responsible to take photographs for all bodies of the prisoners when they died. 237 00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:39,439 They document everything for themselves in this bill. And I think it's like we let it fly by from lots of forces. 238 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:45,980 They don't know who they are. So they documented what that was like. 239 00:28:47,930 --> 00:28:52,640 So Cesar was responsible to to have these photographs of them. 240 00:28:54,430 --> 00:29:04,879 And he managed to smuggle 55,000 photos of people killed and, of course, 55,000 photos. 241 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:11,090 Positives is for 11,000 people because everyone has a lot of freedom for photos. 242 00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:14,750 Of course, the photos outnumbers not a lot of things. 243 00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:25,430 So the numbers, three numbers, number from the personnel themselves, some number for the branch which detained them of a locomotive. 244 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:34,730 I'm sorry. Not just for this for just a few. So this is a right to choose, that is. 245 00:29:37,550 --> 00:29:42,770 Horrible photos. Just imagine the small soldier. 246 00:29:44,170 --> 00:29:47,450 He's pointing at the bodies. Are you smiling? 247 00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:52,810 I don't the way this is the way. 248 00:29:54,130 --> 00:29:56,920 Anyway, so these are the bodies. 249 00:29:57,130 --> 00:30:04,240 If you see this photo, they are putting them in plastic bags, accumulating them here until they took them to a mass grave. 250 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:12,220 We don't know now who, when and where we find those mass graves, where they buried all of these. 251 00:30:12,910 --> 00:30:15,910 But I am just mad like a minute or something. 252 00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:20,200 If you can see that the name tattoos is within that, isn't it? 253 00:30:20,450 --> 00:30:24,070 Talk to us. Yeah, this is. This proves this in Syria. 254 00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:28,950 I mean, you know, Bill, by the way, this is a photo op. 255 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:39,190 This is a photo from this angle. From this, I guess the presidential palace is shown, and that's for them. 256 00:30:39,850 --> 00:30:44,530 So it is less than four miles away from the presidential palace. 257 00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:49,930 If it's from this angle, this is a muslim hospital, military hospital. 258 00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:54,460 So it's from this angle. So you see you'll see the presidential palace that. 259 00:30:59,990 --> 00:31:05,950 This is the way of torturing, of course, some woman, some action, some of them. 260 00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:12,170 I myself recognised at least 15. 261 00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:17,850 Some of them funds. Some of them I hope doesn't. But it doesn't. 262 00:31:18,540 --> 00:31:23,370 Cousins of mine. My father, two of them. My father died. 263 00:31:23,730 --> 00:31:31,380 More than ten people from my hometown. This was the closest one to my Muhammad Ali. 264 00:31:32,550 --> 00:31:35,810 He was lost. He was also killed. 265 00:31:35,820 --> 00:31:51,800 A lot of shock for most of them. Of. From day one when there are protests against Assad, the presence of his troops to crush those cities, he fell. 266 00:31:54,050 --> 00:32:01,700 But since he's sending his own troops, many officer soldiers, this is that we don't want to get our own. 267 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,680 I think these are not very high ones. 268 00:32:07,370 --> 00:32:20,180 Most of them are soldiers on the goal line and they establish a zone, something called the Free Syrian Army, which is not an army. 269 00:32:20,430 --> 00:32:33,079 It's like groups of people surrounded by civilians who managed to take many areas from the control of the Syrian army because of the symbolism, 270 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,410 the scope of the situation. 271 00:32:36,790 --> 00:32:40,020 And so this was very, very weak from the second as you them. 272 00:32:40,670 --> 00:32:46,159 So they managed in less than one year to take many places, all of these. 273 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,250 So there is no victim under the gun outside the control of Assad, 274 00:32:51,530 --> 00:32:58,220 under the control of groups of the Syrian army, the Free Syrian Army, the opposition groups. 275 00:33:01,290 --> 00:33:07,680 And the response was, as of every Saturday, we get outside the scope of every dog. 276 00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:17,490 They send all sorts of weapons against the U.S.A. missiles, not even the Scud missiles. 277 00:33:18,450 --> 00:33:23,970 Continuous bombardment continues. The most annoying thing is the bombs. 278 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,840 Very cheap instrument because this is the other ones. 279 00:33:28,110 --> 00:33:31,320 It's about 25 bottles full of. 280 00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:39,929 They finished with with Daddy. Well, some some children answered it by helicopter. 281 00:33:39,930 --> 00:33:43,020 Then it would take it any way. Those would take it anywhere. 282 00:33:52,990 --> 00:33:55,380 So there's somebody that houses. 283 00:33:56,100 --> 00:34:04,660 Anyway, the good thing is that because they took the by the helicopter and told them what about this is why this guy was here is local. 284 00:34:05,470 --> 00:34:11,600 So they sent tens of thousands of Los Lobos over the cities of. 285 00:34:12,570 --> 00:34:17,800 But it won't be one, two, three, four, three that this could last like. 286 00:34:18,910 --> 00:34:25,000 This is a missile you think as three targets of the ones that come you five bodies, legs and heads everywhere. 287 00:34:25,870 --> 00:34:29,650 And of course this is a the children frightened. 288 00:34:29,740 --> 00:34:39,700 And you've got to imagine. And the most annoying thing is that these people remain a little bit afraid because you don't have the instruments, 289 00:34:40,180 --> 00:34:43,560 the means to take them out of the hillside. 290 00:34:44,650 --> 00:34:49,470 Sometimes, you know, you have the scream, but you can't they. 291 00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:55,530 Something happens. Some of them are not going to have this things. 292 00:34:56,770 --> 00:35:01,690 This is an example of all the building collapse. 293 00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:08,560 All of a sudden, they are playing the lives very well indeed. 294 00:35:08,890 --> 00:35:12,020 In Syria. You get people all over the world. 295 00:35:14,090 --> 00:35:21,880 I what I talk to people about why we have with us is that if you are if you see this photograph, 296 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:27,250 if you see this face, you often see, look, this is what happened to the children of your neighbour. 297 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,540 Are you watching Jordan? You see the sympathy, your children. 298 00:35:31,550 --> 00:35:36,220 I don't think you see, you will see your, your, your sense of what I said. 299 00:35:37,930 --> 00:35:43,240 Follows The sounds of the provided community by one word is not. 300 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:54,100 My one month is nothing. Plenty of the most annoying thing happened with Obama, said using Politico. 301 00:35:54,580 --> 00:35:58,070 What is it about? What does it mean? 302 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,910 Well, everything else. It's like saying that you haven't been in line for anything else. 303 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,650 So I'm not because of the chemical weapons. So it's like, okay, what about them? 304 00:36:10,070 --> 00:36:14,090 What about everything else? What about the sporting goods? What about the missiles? 305 00:36:14,690 --> 00:36:17,839 What about these groups? Massacres. Body mass. 306 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,520 They've been. But isn't that a red line? 307 00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:26,010 Even that red line was across in August 2000. 308 00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:33,320 And when Assad used a group that he was to use the on Ghouta. 309 00:36:33,410 --> 00:36:40,670 These are all of the schools, the subject of the mosques and the August article in one line. 310 00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:45,500 More than 1400 people, many of them are children. 311 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,920 Well, what happened? The UK Parliament gathered at the time. 312 00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:59,510 They decided not to act. Obama was reluctant to go. 313 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:03,680 And then what did he do? He met with Russia. 314 00:37:04,610 --> 00:37:14,510 Lavrov After the time of this great deal, they were to cease all of the chemical stock of the Syrian regime. 315 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:24,730 I'm a big victim. They seized all of the technical stuff from the assassination. 316 00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:29,110 Okay. And what about those who were killed? 317 00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:33,520 Nothing. That's after that guy. 318 00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:44,320 That was not green light. It's not green and yellow on all the calls for Assad, because even after using chemical weapons, 319 00:37:44,590 --> 00:38:01,419 nobody said anything since the day he was executed and got on the paved the way for those groups who all of you know that give them guns, 320 00:38:01,420 --> 00:38:05,340 dozens of dogs. Okay. And then I should go into a room. 321 00:38:06,580 --> 00:38:12,910 Nobody cares about Syrians. You have the right to do whatever you want. 322 00:38:13,060 --> 00:38:16,150 You don't care about Syrians. What about their lives? 323 00:38:17,770 --> 00:38:24,190 So the schools, many jihadist groups and so control schools from all over the world, 324 00:38:24,190 --> 00:38:29,340 the government, the members of the establish many things in Syria. 325 00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:35,410 But the most important and known one is the so-called Islamic State. 326 00:38:37,390 --> 00:38:44,980 Does that change the battle to make the situation more complicated since the time before that? 327 00:38:45,790 --> 00:38:51,820 If you want to win, this is to go to that. You're right about Assad did this as the Syrian regime go through. 328 00:38:52,180 --> 00:38:56,550 But after that, the whole talk is about goals. 329 00:38:57,910 --> 00:39:01,630 Nobody talked about Assad. They talked about Syrian people. 330 00:39:02,020 --> 00:39:05,079 Everything is about us, is about the place. 331 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:12,700 Is this about what is this crisis? Is this only because it is because of even ourselves here and much? 332 00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:16,299 Is that what they want? Some people want to make job. 333 00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:29,640 What is the opposite? You know, surmises. So I suspect told me that they took plenty of places, not just one issue, by the way. 334 00:39:30,030 --> 00:39:33,780 They took plenty of the from the opposition. 335 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,990 But this is the only way. It's not populism. 336 00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:43,550 So they expand it. And a few weeks, few months even, they crossed the law. 337 00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:58,740 But the big parts of the coalition America that they established, the coalition against us is in 2047, 65, at the beginning and July 17. 338 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,170 Yes, the coalition service, as I said, on the day the story goes, is all Jews. 339 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,680 Okay, so who is the supporters of the opposition from day one? 340 00:40:08,850 --> 00:40:14,760 We about. We have to support those countries, Turkey and Muslim countries. 341 00:40:14,970 --> 00:40:24,570 Okay. They said what they wanted to do. So, for example, they said the Syrian ambassador also they closed the embassies. 342 00:40:25,060 --> 00:40:28,470 They cite the Syria from the Arab League. 343 00:40:29,130 --> 00:40:32,760 They give financial support to the political groups. 344 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,800 They hosted their meetings military wise. 345 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,960 They give money to some groups after 2000 when they give money to some groups. 346 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,910 But unfortunately, we should know that every one of them has their own issue. 347 00:40:48,210 --> 00:40:51,310 Those countries, why don't you know, the architecture of issues? 348 00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:55,440 So they don't want to see the people who are doing all of the democracy. 349 00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:01,440 They are the poor democracy. They want to destabilise Assad because he's allied with Iran. 350 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:08,930 They want to go the bus with the UN. So they have their own set of people to win our democracy. 351 00:41:08,970 --> 00:41:22,110 They don't like democracy with Turkey. The main important issue for them is this people give this not to of Kurdish states and the southern borders. 352 00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:28,260 So this is the most annoying thing for them. So the neighbourhood that is going to be three times military in Syria, 353 00:41:28,260 --> 00:41:37,590 it was to take parts of Syria to put the land between the Kurdish people, not to have continuous under the control. 354 00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:42,090 But again, this was the countries of their politics as well. 355 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,490 They don't like Assad and his control. 356 00:41:46,590 --> 00:41:51,200 He got a thug his way. Voice have the rhetoric is always against Israel. 357 00:41:51,730 --> 00:41:55,710 But this is not. He started building good relations with Western countries. 358 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:02,310 His father was pro Russia political. But Assad is like the first visit. 359 00:42:02,370 --> 00:42:14,790 Maybe it was through our links. So the issue is he has good relationship with with it with Western countries as compared to his father, for example. 360 00:42:15,390 --> 00:42:24,600 At the same time with Isaias. So they have all the position or more than was done for democracy, all of these things. 361 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:32,040 Supporters of Assad, they were more or less the supporters of the opposition. 362 00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:38,069 They put money, souls, fighters on behalf of. 363 00:42:38,070 --> 00:42:46,620 They want they sent their mothers, which is Hezbollah, like the forgotten militias to fight. 364 00:42:46,620 --> 00:42:53,669 That is I don't like this applied that I get my voice won over by what he was like for years. 365 00:42:53,670 --> 00:43:00,600 As you well know. Again, this year he was like his father was fighting alongside Assad. 366 00:43:02,070 --> 00:43:14,160 But Russia, for some they want Russia to use the veto at least 12 times to prevent any resolution against them, sent military experts. 367 00:43:14,340 --> 00:43:20,790 And then with all of this support, he was of Syria that she was about to collapse. 368 00:43:20,910 --> 00:43:25,770 In September of 2015, the opposition was out of Damascus. 369 00:43:26,580 --> 00:43:32,520 Russia said no, they intervened by their own Egypt's fighters, 370 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:41,970 that all the military intervention to change this of the solution against people without present question. 371 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:47,280 So they sent their jet fighters all over Syria. 372 00:43:47,550 --> 00:43:50,610 They said, of course, that they are planning terrorist attack. 373 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,080 Everything except those that schools, hospitals. 374 00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:59,340 The the most unlikely is the international community. 375 00:43:59,580 --> 00:44:06,300 Every time, for example, in my hometown, they had just five bombs every night. 376 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:12,630 They sent list of these 2015 attacks on the city. 377 00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:18,660 The simulation at that time, there is total problem with this solution. 378 00:44:18,810 --> 00:44:24,950 Every time. Chances are if you evacuate the down, they will stop. 379 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,150 Of course, there is no reason why they should continue. 380 00:44:29,420 --> 00:44:38,000 It's empty. So it was a blessing that they give their blessing for Syrian people to leave their own dogs. 381 00:44:39,980 --> 00:44:44,960 My hometown was empty and this is my hometown. 382 00:44:44,970 --> 00:44:48,470 This is the best area in my hometown. This is not here. 383 00:44:49,580 --> 00:44:53,060 This is not the West. This is the best area that I know. 384 00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:57,800 Some buildings that are alive on the other side I've got. 385 00:44:58,150 --> 00:45:01,310 I want to show you why. Blindfolded buildings. 386 00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:05,820 Five stories. That's like those. Boy my mom was. 387 00:45:08,930 --> 00:45:13,080 So ended by Syria map. This is in 2017. 388 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,080 The red now is the area under the Syrian regime control. 389 00:45:18,110 --> 00:45:22,760 When I say Syria, vision means Russia and Iran. Assad is above now. 390 00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:28,160 So this is yellow area is under the control of Kurdish people. 391 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:34,250 I do not think of this. Again, it's the US slightly UK, France. 392 00:45:35,570 --> 00:45:38,840 There is the oil here. So because what about the oil? You'll find it. 393 00:45:38,860 --> 00:45:43,790 And then it comes under this area. 394 00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:50,480 This was always a sort of taken by Turkey again to cut Kurdish area into two halves. 395 00:45:51,440 --> 00:46:01,970 This area in green left 2070, were left in the hands of the opposition and some areas under license in 2019. 396 00:46:02,540 --> 00:46:09,109 Turkey invaded more areas so they have no more area under their own control. 397 00:46:09,110 --> 00:46:14,780 So they've got plenty of areas under the Kurdish control disappeared from position. 398 00:46:15,110 --> 00:46:18,600 This one is empty, just like not to be achieved by this green. 399 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,370 The area until now under the opposition control. 400 00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:28,220 Is this area the green one here? Everyone else disappeared. 401 00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:34,790 They can park by Russia and Iran on some small sports voices. 402 00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:39,050 I don't know why they give them until now, the Turkish don't ask. 403 00:46:40,190 --> 00:46:45,680 And of course, to make it all of the cars here. This is about thank you from Israel since 19. 404 00:46:47,810 --> 00:46:55,740 So until now, you'll find people saying go for a certain number to stay in power if he has no support from Syria. 405 00:46:56,510 --> 00:47:06,440 Definitely not support him. Why do would put him in power for 12 years before you forget everything and they forget the most important thing. 406 00:47:07,070 --> 00:47:14,540 This is a support that the US forces. The brutality of who they are. 407 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:25,610 I talk to my cousins throughout the world who know for certain that they don't want nobody wants to be a part of the solution. 408 00:47:25,610 --> 00:47:46,590 Video Future. I will leave that to the questions. Thank you. Thank you, Haitham. 409 00:47:47,210 --> 00:47:52,610 You know, I've seen these photos before, but when I see them again, it feels like the first time. 410 00:47:52,890 --> 00:47:57,740 So every time I see them, I think he agrees. Every time we see them, we feel shocked again. 411 00:47:58,220 --> 00:48:06,680 It's a process, you know, because when you are detached from these photos for some time, you tend to try not to believe what you what you've seen. 412 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,480 But when you see them again, you have that shock. All over again. 413 00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:21,190 Thank you very much, Haitham. Thank you for having. Thank you. 414 00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:25,990 Thank you so much. Thank you as well for for attending this talk. 415 00:48:26,010 --> 00:48:26,410 Thank you.