1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,130 Welcome to, uh, the second iteration. 2 00:00:05,170 --> 00:00:10,260 Um, community centres, Fridays, seminars. I know it's been a packed two weeks, so. 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,180 And here my second week. But to me it's, you know, like, for one week. 4 00:00:16,470 --> 00:00:26,220 I don't know about you guys. Um, but, uh, it is my absolute great pleasure to introduce our guest tonight, Professor Magnus Ravi. 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:36,060 Well, I hope there as a friend, as a mentor. I owe her a lot of, like, amazing conversations and, um, a lot of the ways I think about it. 6 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:46,740 Uh, nowadays, uh, there's a chance. Professor of history and the director for research at the Crown Centre for Media Studies at Nice University, 7 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:57,150 and she's currently working on a book about the revolutionary generation in Iran titled The Intimate Lives of a Revolution, Iran, 1979. 8 00:00:57,330 --> 00:01:03,900 I believe we will be hearing about a chapter of, uh, this book in the making tonight. 9 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,390 She has received fellowships from the Andrew and Muller Foundation, 10 00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:14,250 the American Council of Learning Societies, and, uh, the American Academy in Berlin. 11 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,409 And her work on the 1979 Revolution has been published in history and has, uh, 12 00:01:19,410 --> 00:01:25,140 International Journal of Media Studies and Comparative Studies of South Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. 13 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:33,390 She also writes about Iran on her Substack, uh, called These Are the Two True Things. 14 00:01:33,470 --> 00:01:41,520 I highly recommend you read them, but fascinating. Um, she is currently an academic visitor at the media centre at Saint Anthony's College. 15 00:01:41,850 --> 00:01:46,650 So do, uh, take advantage of this opportunity? 16 00:01:50,610 --> 00:01:54,210 Um, okay. Uh, without trying to do that? 17 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:07,160 Thank you, ma'am, uh, for that introduction. It's such a great pleasure to be here. 18 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:14,930 I mean, this whole roll, this this section is just people I know and I love, and so it's such an honour. 19 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:21,230 Um, I do want to, uh, thank the Middle East Centre for having me as a speaker and also as a visitor. 20 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:30,020 You might not remember this, but back in 2014, this project was nothing but, you know, a spark in my eye. 21 00:02:30,290 --> 00:02:36,860 And I was just thinking it through. I emailed Eugene, I had never met him before and I said I was in London. 22 00:02:36,890 --> 00:02:42,140 I don't remember why it was, but I remember that email. Usually. I said, can I come to Oxford and give a talk? 23 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:52,790 And Eugene, who is the fastest email responder in the world, hands down, immediately wrote back to say, who are you? 24 00:02:52,820 --> 00:03:03,140 Then say why? He like, yes, of course. And so the seed of this project in some ways was born at the Middle East Centre. 25 00:03:03,590 --> 00:03:07,490 Um, this building didn't exist, and that's how old I am. And how far goes was. 26 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:12,080 Um, so I find it. I'm really excited to come back. 27 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:20,450 Be here among you to talk about a new chapter that I have not talked about anywhere before, and I'll just be playing around with ideas. 28 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:29,809 So thank you for having me. Um, now, before I start, though, I do want to take a moment and remember Professor Roy Patterson. 29 00:03:29,810 --> 00:03:39,780 Once I had that, um, who passed away this summer. The reason I mention him is that, uh, uh, it's his memorial today at Harvard. 30 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:48,950 Um, right. Like, in a couple of hours. And, um, so I just thought you're going to see the footprints of his work all over my project. 31 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:54,530 And I just wanted to take this opportunity to say how grateful I am, um, to have been his students. 32 00:03:54,530 --> 00:03:59,530 And how much is that? All right, let's move on. 33 00:04:00,220 --> 00:04:04,570 Hmm. Revolutions have always been obsessed with families. 34 00:04:05,020 --> 00:04:11,440 This was true for the French Revolution, as it was for the Iranian Revolution. 35 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:18,370 Revolutionary movements draw from the affective powers of family to mobilise for their cause. 36 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:26,710 And revolutions meant, when successful, make reshaping the family one of their first post-revolutionary acts. 37 00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:34,300 Take, for example, the French Revolution. Whereas Lynn Hunt has shown the 18th century revolutionaries quote, 38 00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:40,900 had a kind of collective political unconscious that was structured by narratives of family relations, 39 00:04:41,350 --> 00:04:51,040 whereby the disappointing father and the bad mother, Louis the 16th and Marie-Antoinette, were metaphorically dead first and then literally beheaded. 40 00:04:54,350 --> 00:05:04,280 If you want his case. The 1979 revolutionary signalled their ideals of social justice by recasting the nation as a collective 41 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:11,810 of sisters and brothers Paradise together in their struggle against the Shah and global imperialism. 42 00:05:13,130 --> 00:05:22,640 Yet when it comes to writing and theorising revolutions, the family is not as a metaphor but as a space of ideas of politicisation, 43 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,410 and mobilisation is generally kept out of the interpretive framework. 44 00:05:28,010 --> 00:05:37,220 We focus instead on big thoughts like ideology structures and intellectual underpinnings against the vastness of revolution. 45 00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:46,130 The family is perhaps too small to contain and too intimate, and props for whoever can figure out where I am. 46 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,370 It'll be up enough that you'll have time to not listen to me, but look at it. 47 00:05:53,510 --> 00:05:59,060 But the Intimate Lives of revolutions are exactly what I have been interested in for. 48 00:05:59,090 --> 00:06:09,260 As I mentioned the past decade or so, when I first began to interview Iranians from a wide spectrum of backgrounds about the experiences of 1979. 49 00:06:09,860 --> 00:06:17,510 And my book, as Mariam mentioned, is a history of the social and cultural milieu that shaped the revolutionary generation, 50 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:23,690 informing the choices that they made. To take part will not take part in the revolution. 51 00:06:24,860 --> 00:06:32,569 As someone you may know, the recurring puzzle of the Iranian Revolution for scholars and even some of the former participants, 52 00:06:32,570 --> 00:06:45,080 is why did so many different political groups take part in mass demonstrations in late 1978 that were indisputably led by clerics at that moment? 53 00:06:45,770 --> 00:06:55,550 What made the communists, the Maoists, the nationalist, the secular answer the call to rise up by people such as I love Khomeini. 54 00:06:56,570 --> 00:07:02,870 The underlying question for many is a plaintive were we didn't. 55 00:07:03,530 --> 00:07:06,890 Were we naive? Was the revolution stolen? 56 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:16,510 So by focusing on the lives of the revolutionary generation up to the moment of the revolution in February of 1979, 57 00:07:17,020 --> 00:07:22,360 my book argues that the vast and seemingly contradictory alliance that brought 58 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:27,250 the revolution about not only made sense to its participants at the time, 59 00:07:27,580 --> 00:07:38,860 but was the essence of the revolution itself. The decision to take part in the demonstrations of late 1978 was made years or even decades before, 60 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:44,530 not in the streets, but in the intimacy that exists between a reader and a book, 61 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:51,970 the kitchen sink conversations between families and friends, and love between comrades, 62 00:07:52,600 --> 00:08:00,160 and the emotions and joy of fear that are evoked by revolutionary struggles and post-revolutionary despair. 63 00:08:01,390 --> 00:08:06,310 These were often deemed too obvious to elaborate on by my interviewees. 64 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,050 I want to know this, they would ask. Everybody knows this. 65 00:08:11,170 --> 00:08:16,870 I mean, we knew that, they would say. And to paraphrase the wonderful German novelist Jenny, 66 00:08:16,870 --> 00:08:26,860 harken back the trick to capturing the experiences of the revolutionary generation, it turns out, is to make the obvious unhappiness. 67 00:08:28,060 --> 00:08:30,070 So today, let's do that together. 68 00:08:30,820 --> 00:08:39,610 I'd like to turn our attention to the family and the crucial, transformative role that it played in the shaping of Iran's revolutionary generation. 69 00:08:40,210 --> 00:08:44,980 Specifically, I'm going to talk about two aspects of the family in the late Pablo Iran. 70 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:54,060 First, the family as a if not this phase of politicisation in the 1960s and 70s, 71 00:08:54,070 --> 00:08:58,570 I had too much politicisation was not that hard to say at the time, but it did so many times. 72 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:11,020 Um, so that's the first one as the space and second, the multigenerational family as one of the few multi ideological spaces at the time. 73 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:24,129 And what that can tell us about Iran's multi ideological revolutionary alliance underlying all this, I'm going to talk about a paradox. 74 00:09:24,130 --> 00:09:25,900 I think a strange paradox, 75 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:40,660 namely that the specificity of pandemic repression between 1963 to 1977 turned the family into a crucial node for a radical mass social movement, 76 00:09:40,870 --> 00:09:48,940 a revolution at a time when the family itself remained a bastion of social conservatism. 77 00:09:50,140 --> 00:09:55,150 So to illustrate these plants, and in the interest of time, um, 78 00:09:55,150 --> 00:10:01,030 I'm just going to be sharing with you a tiny, very small number of what my each of you talked about. 79 00:10:01,030 --> 00:10:08,290 But I wanted to let you know that I change, as I agreed upon with the the names, the hometowns of any identifying markers. 80 00:10:08,980 --> 00:10:15,280 And I'll talk about a little bit of what you guys. But first, because if I don't say it, you're going to ask me in Q&A. 81 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:27,640 What do I mean by generation? So the definition of generation that I use here is a variation of that employed by R.F. foster in the magnificent book. 82 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:35,260 You must be in this book, this thesis about revolutionaries at the turn of the 20th century. 83 00:10:36,350 --> 00:10:43,990 And what he says is that they are mainly a group of groups, not necessarily made up of people born at the same time, 84 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:51,610 who conceive of themselves as bonded together by cultural mentality and social circumstances. 85 00:10:52,030 --> 00:10:59,050 And here, as you can tell from how I read it, the operating term is they conceive of themselves as a generation, 86 00:10:59,470 --> 00:11:07,150 i.e. in the sense and I'm quoting here, in which they are not born but made a generation. 87 00:11:07,150 --> 00:11:12,940 And if you study anything remotely connected to revolutions, you'll hear reflection of theta Scotch, 88 00:11:13,180 --> 00:11:16,840 the sentence about the Iranian revolution, that it did not come and was made. 89 00:11:17,230 --> 00:11:20,430 Foster is not in conversation with that, but I found with an interesting parallel. 90 00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:32,650 Um, so he continues a generation made not only by conscious processes of identification and rejection in the lives of the protagonists, 91 00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:40,630 but also retrospectively in their megabase and then their control of the larger territory of official and social memory. 92 00:11:41,290 --> 00:11:46,300 So, building on this idea, when I talk about the revolutionary generation in Iran, 93 00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:54,280 I am speaking predominantly of a generation made in the 1960s and 70s when they became 94 00:11:54,280 --> 00:12:00,549 politicised and eventually such even mobilised for oppositional activities and generation, 95 00:12:00,550 --> 00:12:10,570 to quote, foster it again, having given their attention to critically assess the status quo conceived of themselves as bent on transformation. 96 00:12:13,050 --> 00:12:17,220 This notion of a generation made rather than worn. 97 00:12:17,550 --> 00:12:22,680 Feeds into the concept of family that I use, because you will also ask me about family if I know. 98 00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:31,620 Um, and the idea of the family goes beyond the nuclear family to encompass relatives such as uncles, 99 00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:38,730 aunts, cousins and households i.e. non blood members who live in the same household with people. 100 00:12:39,210 --> 00:12:44,070 In other words, we're talking here about kinship networks of trust. 101 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:50,990 So just to give a short little landscape also kind of numbers are perfect way to procrastinate. 102 00:12:53,040 --> 00:13:01,020 According to the 1976 census data, there were roughly 5 million households in Iran in both urban and rural areas. 103 00:13:01,170 --> 00:13:04,620 Some of the numbers for those who live you can read at Persian are up here. 104 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,680 So of these households, about 5.5% were defined as a household of one. 105 00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:19,300 And about 25%, which is the largest percentage, were households of seven people or more. 106 00:13:20,020 --> 00:13:25,570 Not surprisingly, if you can read the numbers, you will see that there was no real development surprise, 107 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:30,340 no real difference in the average size of a household between a rural and urban areas. 108 00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:31,420 I was really shocked. 109 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:44,650 Now this is happening in a population that from 1966 to 1976, grew by roughly 23%, and the urban population jumped by about a third. 110 00:13:44,950 --> 00:13:52,090 So that's on the eve of the revolution. Half of Iran's public population was living in cities by taxi. 111 00:13:53,530 --> 00:14:04,780 Through all of this, Polanyi bonds family values and structures from dating to general rules to even whether you watch television or not, 112 00:14:05,020 --> 00:14:15,070 remained quite conservative. In 1967, on a series of top down legal changes called Family Protection Law were enacted. 113 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:23,200 These changes aim to kerb the power of the men in the family, primarily by making arbitrary date for the much more difficult. 114 00:14:23,890 --> 00:14:31,420 This was done also partly by changing the legal position of women, i.e. providing more legal rights to them, 115 00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:42,760 but without social work to transform their positions in society, which in essence means that the structure of the family was kept intact. 116 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:50,650 So while divorce rates decreased in the first half of the 1970s because of the family protection law, 117 00:14:51,160 --> 00:15:02,770 female informants in urban areas saw a decline in the 1970s from 9.9% female employment rate in 1966. 118 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:08,120 We go down to 7.5% in 1971. 119 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:12,780 I am again after this modernising series of laws. 120 00:15:13,780 --> 00:15:23,140 And then it raises up again to 9% by 1977, which is the same rate it had been in the 1950s. 121 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:32,750 Among complex socioeconomic reasons. Taryn Plano, whose wonderful book on everyone should read again, gifts for the straw. 122 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:44,210 What stands out to me is the power that states encouragement of women to become homemakers, even as it's even as a habit is modernising efforts. 123 00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:56,180 Part of this comes from the man at the top, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, who presented himself as, quote, the undisputed head of the family and the nation. 124 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:08,060 He infamously told Oriana Fallaci in an interview in 1973, I am the six years after the family protection law that quote, 125 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:14,060 in a man's life, women can only if they're beautiful and graceful and know how to say feminine. 126 00:16:14,690 --> 00:16:18,730 And this woman's live business, for instance, what do you feminists what? 127 00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:22,670 What do you want? Equality, you say? Indeed. 128 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:28,190 I don't want to seem rude, but you may be equal in the eyes of the law. 129 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,340 But not, I beg your pardon for saying so in the bill. 130 00:16:35,150 --> 00:16:40,820 So how was it going back to the first of the paradox that I mentioned at the time. 131 00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:47,900 How was it that despite the persistence of conservative gender values and traditional family structures, 132 00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:55,220 the family became the primary side of politicisation and dissent against the state? 133 00:16:55,850 --> 00:17:01,700 To be understand the how and why. I begin with a question that I asked everyone that I interviewed. 134 00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:06,020 How did you become political? How did you become CSC? 135 00:17:07,490 --> 00:17:10,700 Their answers shared a pattern. It was rarely one thing. 136 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:13,940 It was not linear and it wasn't even consistent. 137 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:25,160 But more than a specific political idea, it was the presence of politics in their family that more often than not, triggered a political awakening. 138 00:17:26,420 --> 00:17:29,690 Take, for example, that. This is not that. 139 00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:33,460 This is a child. But I didn't want you to keep looking at the previous pictures. 140 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:40,970 I just put this because you can't know that it's. So take, for example, that Max, who was 19 when the revolution happened, 141 00:17:41,330 --> 00:17:48,650 and since then he has actually spent many years in prisons in the Islamic Republic for continuing his political activism. 142 00:17:49,370 --> 00:17:56,840 Ramos is from a small provincial town near Tehran, from what he himself calls an ordinary religious family. 143 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,350 And what he means by that was my family went to the cinema. 144 00:18:00,380 --> 00:18:03,290 They lived a normal life like everybody else, but they weren't religious. 145 00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:10,790 His political activism itself also always remained within the religious spectrum of revolutionary thought, 146 00:18:11,150 --> 00:18:15,500 which he defines when I ask him what is a religious revolutionary? 147 00:18:15,770 --> 00:18:22,220 He defines as demanding justice and believing in this, you know, how did you become political? 148 00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:28,550 I asked him as we sat in a very noisy park. It was 1974, he said without skipping a beat. 149 00:18:29,390 --> 00:18:32,600 Well, I had been interested in history since I was a kid. 150 00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:37,460 My father had had political and political inclinations, but did not like politics. 151 00:18:37,910 --> 00:18:45,110 He was religious and even educated Khomeini, but would always say to me, serve the people, but don't become political. 152 00:18:46,010 --> 00:18:50,420 Rana's maternal uncle had been a member of Iran's Communist Party today, 153 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:58,340 but the shock and disappointment of the 1953 clue that toppled Mohammad in Mossad there had turned him against it off. 154 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:10,450 He was a realist. That told me. In 1974, when I was 14, he had read the popular allegorical story The Little Rat Blackfish, 155 00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:17,790 where the eponymous fish goes out into the world, kills a fish eating heron to liberate all the others, and dies in the process. 156 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:26,110 That is, does not do the story justice, but the book ends with 12,000 fish hearing this heroic tale from their grandmother. 157 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,610 And what little redfish now dreaming of the sea? 158 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,200 Well, that black says to me. I understood then that the shock was bad. 159 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:41,710 He kept reading political books, which would then get to his mother to hide from him. 160 00:19:42,490 --> 00:19:49,420 I was scared of my father, so my mom would be a go between two stock fights between me and my father more than anyone else. 161 00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:52,600 My mother has paid the price for me becoming political. 162 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:58,600 Now, as you may have noticed, that has answers to my question was all over the place. 163 00:19:58,990 --> 00:20:03,220 You read a book? His uncle used to be a communist. His father was religious. 164 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,160 He was scared of his father. His mom was protective. 165 00:20:06,970 --> 00:20:17,200 But the picture that he paints perfectly captures how the intimate space of the family, imbued with politics, can lead to a political awakening. 166 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:23,620 This was respected in so many of the other interviews that I did, so I'll just mention one more, 167 00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:30,060 which was with Wally, a budding artist in the 1970s who actually believed in her political awareness. 168 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,210 She made a point of saying, I didn't do political activity, but I was for the revolution. 169 00:20:35,290 --> 00:20:43,040 So she attributed it to her family and talked about it almost as if it was just like, inevitable. 170 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,700 It was a natural phenomenon. A well known to this figure had been her second cousin. 171 00:20:49,210 --> 00:20:54,910 Several of her uncles had been important tribal leaders who had been killed by the father, 172 00:20:54,910 --> 00:20:58,870 better shot when they had opposed the forced settlement of tribes. 173 00:20:59,230 --> 00:21:05,530 Overall, six members of her extended family had been killed by one person that be king or another. 174 00:21:05,980 --> 00:21:10,300 Her revolutionary inclinations, she told me, had the malaria roots. 175 00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:22,240 This familial roots of politicisation is what Karen Kent, with calls the quote, family traditions of resistance in the context of Latin America. 176 00:21:22,930 --> 00:21:28,809 She proposes this term instead of drawing reference political cultures of opposition, 177 00:21:28,810 --> 00:21:33,190 which is how people usually talk about this because, she says, the former can, 178 00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:37,840 quote, explain why a particular person picked up a tradition of resistance, 179 00:21:38,140 --> 00:21:42,760 whereas another, raised in the same culture but in a different family did not. 180 00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:47,350 End quote. Importantly, can't work notes and you have it here. 181 00:21:47,650 --> 00:21:57,430 Clearly, others socialised in networks such as schools or churches help to explain why some sees the cultures of opposition that are valuable to them. 182 00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:06,940 But families are probably the most important socialising networks because of their universality and intimacy. 183 00:22:07,540 --> 00:22:11,529 They are almost always ignored by revolutionary theorists, 184 00:22:11,530 --> 00:22:20,650 and in presenting the myriad stories of women guerrilla fighters in Nicaragua, El Salvador, chatbots and Cuba, 185 00:22:20,980 --> 00:22:29,620 Kaplan demonstrates how young women became politicised in Christian communities and labour organisations and peasant organisations and student groups. 186 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:40,870 In addition to the family, these spaces provided platforms and networks that transition them into guerrilla groups and armed resistance. 187 00:22:41,470 --> 00:22:47,860 They were, she notes, and I'm quoting here, here, safe spaces for recruiting as well as well, 188 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,500 as well as opportunities for girls to acquire basic organising skills and wealth. 189 00:22:53,840 --> 00:23:01,100 But by the late 1960s, in Iran, safe spaces for recruitment had dwindled to almost entirely. 190 00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:04,340 Networks of AI, family and friends. 191 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,540 Due to the specific form and extent of the pandemic. 192 00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:18,000 State's repressive policies. Between 1963, when a perfect storm of events, the White Revolution and capitulation, 193 00:23:18,140 --> 00:23:26,930 the seminary protests of the 15th of 42 that eventually Khomeini's exile set the monarchy off on a new stage of repression. 194 00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:33,050 And then 19 between 1963 and then 1977, when there was a relative relaxation, 195 00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:41,600 the Pahlavi state more or less clamped down on any and all types of political or sociopolitical spaces. 196 00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:49,790 Famously, certain words such as well, let's work, which means rose, 197 00:23:50,150 --> 00:23:55,310 was banned in public for fear that the speaker was referring to a conservative, Sophie, 198 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:04,850 who became a household name with his passionate courtroom defence of himself and his comrades, was televised before he was sentenced and put to death. 199 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:13,010 Those years were also the years when the to the party, which was crucial for the politicisation of an earlier generation, 200 00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:18,800 as I mentioned, and even some of the revolutionary generation was driven underground and abroad. 201 00:24:20,030 --> 00:24:24,589 What remained of the two dead, though, for the purposes of our story, um, 202 00:24:24,590 --> 00:24:32,600 were older family members with lives, spark and the younger generation with stories about their past. 203 00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:41,840 And by giving them copies of such Soviet classics as Nikolai Ostrovsky is How the Steel Was Tempered and Maxim Gorky's Mother. 204 00:24:42,110 --> 00:24:46,670 Even though these books at some point were understood to have been banned, 205 00:24:47,030 --> 00:24:53,120 and the prison sentences for just having them was increased to 2 to 4 years. 206 00:24:53,360 --> 00:25:01,969 So a lot was at stake in just getting the book. While many in the revolutionary generation were born into the tail end of the 207 00:25:01,970 --> 00:25:07,310 two that a National Front party hardly activities like others around the globe, 208 00:25:08,180 --> 00:25:12,290 the revolutionary generation came to embrace global, um, 209 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:21,740 guerrilla warfare and their set the armed struggle movement in Iran announced its birth in the and the mountains of the forests of Cat, 210 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:27,560 a village on the Caspian Sea where a group of guerrilla fighters attacked the local police station. 211 00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:29,420 It was a failure. 212 00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:38,510 Yet despite the stretch, the tragic end of the incident, the death of two policemen, the eventual execution of all 13 guerrilla fighters well, 213 00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:43,490 not up, but and the village was its complicity in turning them into the authorities. 214 00:25:43,850 --> 00:25:49,910 Sympathies for the guerrilla movements spread like wildfire among university students. 215 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:58,530 In response, the monarchy shifted gears into a new level of repression, and the security apparatus suffered, 216 00:25:58,610 --> 00:26:06,680 expanded its everyday surveillance of students and their families, recruiting informants in almost all segments of Iranian society. 217 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:16,200 By 1977, most the most of the leaders and rank and file of the guerrilla organisations were either killed or were in prison. 218 00:26:16,910 --> 00:26:26,630 The small remaining devoted numbers went deep, deep underground until the fall of 1978, when the revolution spilled into the streets. 219 00:26:28,670 --> 00:26:34,730 Now, just as a side note or not a side note, this doesn't mean that there was no political activity, 220 00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:42,170 um, at the time, but it's important to remember that what did exist couched itself in other names. 221 00:26:42,170 --> 00:26:48,850 So it was there were protests in the late 1960s, but they were under the guise of student interest. 222 00:26:48,860 --> 00:26:56,629 They were, for example, the students protested about tuition or um, um, dining hall food, 223 00:26:56,630 --> 00:27:01,820 which is like, you know, a universal place on every student life, as anybody who knows. 224 00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:07,970 Um, and so it was either that or there would be some kind of religious pretext. 225 00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:14,270 But after you can even those public points of protest completely vanished from sight. 226 00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:24,440 So the end result of the range of severity of repression was that the kinds of community spaces available for politicisation, 227 00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:31,880 the care campus writes about in regards to Latin America, were not available to the revolutionary generation in Iran. 228 00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:41,840 Iran's active revolutionary struggles were, for the most part, isolated underground or abroad, and thus disconnected from society. 229 00:27:42,290 --> 00:27:52,040 What did remain were the spaces of families, so these relatively safe and intimate spaces operated on multiple levels. 230 00:27:52,250 --> 00:27:58,040 I really talked about the way in which you can have conversations that you could not have in public and in the homes, 231 00:27:58,460 --> 00:28:04,970 but homes were also where activists hid banal yet subversive objects, such as books. 232 00:28:06,050 --> 00:28:12,650 So this name may be familiar to some of you. Mohammad Ali, who was the Islamic Republic's second president. 233 00:28:12,650 --> 00:28:16,100 He was killed in the bombing in 1982. 234 00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:25,850 So in his case, um, the dual role of the family in terms of what contained it and what it could hide collected. 235 00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:32,960 So in the early 1970s, AJ had his, um, books and pamphlets in his sister's house not exposed to Haskell. 236 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:39,640 So, you know, they were going to come and get them. Um, he hid them in his sister's basement, which was close to his aunt, and he could go get them. 237 00:28:39,650 --> 00:28:49,310 And he knew that his nephew, who was a university student, had come across one of these books or pamphlets, actually, that he had, um, hid there. 238 00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:54,290 And it was a pamphlet by the Marxist Islamist organisation, which I had. 239 00:28:54,680 --> 00:29:00,740 So the nephew had read it, really liked it, and had handed it to his friends at the university. 240 00:29:00,770 --> 00:29:09,860 Eventually it had made its way to the wrong person, and the Savak arrested the friends, then the nephew, and then at that. 241 00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:20,550 So those sort of other things. So even if you have a very cursory familiarity with the scholarship on the Iranian Revolution, 242 00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:29,069 you could rightly say to me and point about the rich foreign literature that has highlighted, he adds, mosques, 243 00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:36,720 professional associations, associations such as Writers Guild and Lawyers guilds, labour unions particularly in the oil industry, 244 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:43,650 university seminaries and the bazaar as crucial nodes in the formation of the revolutionary movement. 245 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:53,249 But many of these analysis, if you pay attention, actually are focussed on the events of 1977 and afterwards when, 246 00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:56,430 as the soft person notes, everybody was mobilising. 247 00:29:57,630 --> 00:30:01,410 Take, for example, the lawyers and Ryker's associations. 248 00:30:01,890 --> 00:30:07,500 They were formed or in the case of the writers associations, reformed in 1977. 249 00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:11,910 And it was only then that they became important spaces for mobilisation. 250 00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:19,260 And the most important example of it is the ten Nights of Poetry at the Guitar Institute, which was, as many of you know, 251 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:27,040 um, organised by the newly reconstituted Writers Association when thousands of people showed up in the rain. 252 00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:31,590 It was I one day I will write about the fact that it is not photographed. 253 00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:36,299 Um, this and one other photograph is literally the only photographs. 254 00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:41,880 We have sound, but we don't have visuals of it. Um, people stood in the rain for ten days. 255 00:30:42,450 --> 00:30:53,250 And just to hear some of the most famous writers criticise publicly censorship in the shots regime and then lived to tell the tale. 256 00:30:55,230 --> 00:31:00,510 Another very important point when we talk about what scholars usually talk about, which is the mosque, 257 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:09,000 seminaries, the universities, is that many of these spaces were already under laid with family and kinship ties. 258 00:31:09,510 --> 00:31:19,620 So an I think, again, study of the bazaar, for example, notes that family ties were, quote, a critical mechanism that brought diverse groups together. 259 00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:23,909 Commercial ties were reinforced by family connections. 260 00:31:23,910 --> 00:31:32,580 And then the bazaar, of course, has ties to the clerical networks, as demonstrated in Roy Moore and his mantle of the prophet. 261 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:39,329 And What's That? It also shows how neighbourhoods that he adds in the neighbourhoods, which he calls, quote, 262 00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:45,450 the only non-government sponsored organisation known to urban members of the lower and middle lower class, 263 00:31:45,450 --> 00:31:53,969 and Quote was formed on the basis of neighbourly contact or more often of villages and regional origins, 264 00:31:53,970 --> 00:32:00,150 where members of the family all settled from the same village, in the same neighbourhood. 265 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:10,569 Now one consequence of the shrinking of associational political spaces to tiny circles of trust is that, 266 00:32:10,570 --> 00:32:19,090 by necessity, these other associational political spaces become homogenised spaces of thought. 267 00:32:20,260 --> 00:32:25,240 In other words, even if you think about friendship circles in this period, 268 00:32:26,050 --> 00:32:33,970 you would not have a diversity of opinion in your friendship circles because the question was, can you trust this person and to trust this person? 269 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:39,400 There was this belief that then everybody needed to believe in the same way to go forward. 270 00:32:40,270 --> 00:32:49,960 The stakes were too high. Otherwise, families, on the other hand, serve the spaces in which the revolution's multiple strands of thought, 271 00:32:50,290 --> 00:32:54,219 from secular Marxist to communist to Islamic Marxist, 272 00:32:54,220 --> 00:33:02,590 to traditionalists, to traditional national, religious to nationalist, religious to revolutionary, religious all commingled. 273 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:10,000 And because it's a family we didn't have to like. So let me give you an example of one of my interviewees, Ajibade, 274 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,850 who was 13 years old when he had his first brush with somebody who entered his 275 00:33:15,850 --> 00:33:21,730 family home and in a port town in south Iran and arrested his 18 year old brother. 276 00:33:22,270 --> 00:33:25,840 So survive arrest, little act as a brother. 277 00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:31,930 His brother was a member of the Secular Society organisation and had been 278 00:33:31,930 --> 00:33:38,980 secretly making flyers using photocopying machines and their father's office, 279 00:33:39,340 --> 00:33:44,410 which was an office that belonged to a very important ministry official. 280 00:33:46,210 --> 00:33:49,390 So I had found out and hauled away to prison. 281 00:33:50,350 --> 00:33:55,240 Now I read to me that because of his brother, he had grown up reading leftist literature, 282 00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:59,440 and he considered himself to be a Marxist in his early teens. 283 00:34:00,190 --> 00:34:07,060 But he had another brother who had actually turned to the Marxist Islamist guerrilla organisation, the Mujahideen. 284 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,520 And then the eldest brother was, quote, either left and or religious. 285 00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:20,800 A year after his brother's arrest, and I was sent away to some really fancy high school in some bigger city. 286 00:34:21,670 --> 00:34:30,459 There he discovered a different type of revolutionary tax and the Marxist ones that he had been reading Islamic ones written by people like Matea, 287 00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:33,550 Blaziken again, WhatsApp, Hadi and Ali Khamenei, 288 00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:40,480 the current supreme leader whose book about the life of the eighth Street Islam I told me was, quote, 289 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:48,130 full of lessons for the struggle and quote expert joined the school's Islamic association, Anjuman Islami. 290 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:54,430 He became religious then and he began to pray. And then what was a pattern for this generation? 291 00:34:54,850 --> 00:35:05,080 His turn to religiosity put him on a collision course with his father, who was also religious after all. 292 00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:11,080 He told me his real name was after his father's favourite mosque and their hometown. 293 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:20,440 The clash between son and father came down to the role each assigned to clerics for his father. 294 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,490 A cleric was a Friday prayer leader at the local mosque. 295 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:33,160 For I felt it was for me the type of political diversity reflected in eggplants and so, 296 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:41,110 so many other families was not replicated in other associational spaces such as universities, mosques and guilds. 297 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:49,900 As I mentioned, for trust to work in those spaces, you need to be certain that everybody belong to the same type of political thought. 298 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:57,250 But the family, rooted as it was in the ideals of stability and strong kinship ties, 299 00:35:57,850 --> 00:36:02,110 and the fact that the structure remained conservative in that period, 300 00:36:02,530 --> 00:36:09,310 allowed for the mixing of multiple ideologies, sometimes in harmony and sometimes in discord. 301 00:36:10,030 --> 00:36:15,219 And I personally, for example, the political differences, which was religious, 302 00:36:15,220 --> 00:36:21,280 revolutionary religion, agnosticism, and Marxism did not tear his family apart. 303 00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:28,960 Well, we were good with each other, and the difference between being Muslim or being a leftist had no effect on our feelings towards each other. 304 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:35,200 What did tear them apart, it turns out, was the death of their mother and the fact that the father remarried. 305 00:36:36,730 --> 00:36:43,510 And another thing that tore them apart was not revolutionary politics, but post-revolutionary politics. 306 00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:49,360 And I'm happy to talk about that. Who are in the company? And just to give you a sense, after the revolution, 307 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:55,150 the leftist brother was executed during the power struggle between the Khomeini factions and leftist groups. 308 00:36:55,810 --> 00:37:00,880 Another brother of the agnostic one tried to enter post-revolutionary local politics. 309 00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:07,390 But, um was told he can't because he refused to renounce his executed brother. 310 00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:15,650 Brother, who had been declared an enemy of the god. And Ajibade eventually moved to Tekken and rose through the ranks of the Islamic Republic. 311 00:37:17,220 --> 00:37:24,680 Um. I have another story, but I'm just going to keep that because I do want to talk to you guys again. 312 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,760 But there's a sense that it just doesn't give you a sense of in this other story. 313 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:35,000 I just wanted to show you that it doesn't have to be actually, um, a peaceful everybody getting along, 314 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:44,550 that these ideological differences could tear the family apart, but in tearing the family apart, never put the people in the family in danger. 315 00:37:44,570 --> 00:37:48,170 So the idea of trust in the family maintained itself. 316 00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:54,170 But those who now person everybody back at, uh, several times. 317 00:37:56,910 --> 00:38:03,569 As you may have noticed, several examples I have presented over the course of my talk contain families whose 318 00:38:03,570 --> 00:38:09,630 points of conflict was not secular versus religious or Islamist versus leftist, 319 00:38:09,930 --> 00:38:17,670 but religious versus religious. This part could be fact reflects a trend that one which I had highlighted in mantle, 320 00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:25,650 the prophet back in 1985, namely, the evolution of the role of the Mullah or the cleric in 1960s Iran. 321 00:38:25,950 --> 00:38:30,240 When the figure of the mullah, a village man of scant education, 322 00:38:30,990 --> 00:38:40,410 preoccupied with his income and narrow minded rulings that the law was replaced with what metalhead calls the activist seminary student, 323 00:38:40,410 --> 00:38:49,200 the activist held up it, who, quote, now became someone whose concerns you could seriously listen to and who seemed to have your well-being at heart. 324 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:56,020 But, well, what I did located this in the question of rural urban migration. 325 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:01,419 I'd like to suggest that a deeper dive into the family demonstrates that the following 326 00:39:01,420 --> 00:39:07,020 line for the different meanings of religion or mass heavy was not just migration, 327 00:39:07,020 --> 00:39:08,640 but it was also generational. 328 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:19,229 So one interviewee speculated to me that the social policies of limiting the role of the cleric in the everyday life of Iranians in the 30s and 329 00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:34,050 40s was so successful that the generation that came to an age in the 1960s and 70s barely had any contact with a cleric in their everyday life. 330 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:41,190 What they knew instead was the emergent figure of the activist or revolutionary cleric, 331 00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:48,330 who they situated as being closer to other Global South figures of struggle. 332 00:39:48,570 --> 00:39:55,350 Then the whole lot of your. Uh, it. 333 00:39:57,210 --> 00:40:01,320 Hi. Let me. Oh, wow. 334 00:40:02,570 --> 00:40:14,090 I think I skipped a picture. All right. And so. So let me wrap up by asking an elephant question often posed by my colleagues in political science. 335 00:40:14,930 --> 00:40:23,270 So what I love about plasma is another way of asking. 336 00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:30,260 That is, why is it important to tease out the multi ideological space of the multigenerational family? 337 00:40:31,550 --> 00:40:37,190 By the fall of 1978, the political landscape of Iran has fundamentally altered. 338 00:40:37,970 --> 00:40:43,580 Spaces made barren of politics suddenly bloomed in opposition to the Shah. 339 00:40:45,780 --> 00:40:53,430 From oil workers to the bazaars to schools, students, universities and the streets. 340 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:58,470 Iranians came forth to call for the end to the popularity dynasty. 341 00:40:59,250 --> 00:41:03,390 Some commentators said the people only knew what they didn't want. 342 00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:12,060 They didn't know what they want. Some, like some colonel, said what they wanted was a utopia, an ideal called the Islamic government. 343 00:41:13,050 --> 00:41:24,420 Regardless of where you lie on this. By winter, what had been what had been a struggle for decades became undeniably a revolution where communists, 344 00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:33,300 market, Marxist-Leninist, Islamic, Marxist, secular nationalists and religious nationalists coalesced under the leadership of I told us, Khomeini, 345 00:41:34,980 --> 00:41:42,540 and for a brief moment, society mirrored the family as a space for contrasting diverse political thought. 346 00:41:46,180 --> 00:41:50,890 It is a truth universally acknowledged that revolutions devour their children. 347 00:41:51,730 --> 00:41:55,480 Though frankly, that truth is that it kills its parents. 348 00:41:55,990 --> 00:42:05,020 Those who gave birth to it. This is true for the French Revolution, as it was for the Iranian Revolution, much like the Reign of Terror in France. 349 00:42:05,020 --> 00:42:10,710 That left not just the king, but also the revolution's parents, like Danton and Hobbes. 350 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:20,290 Beer Atlas. After the establishment of the Islamic Republic in April of 1979, a bloody period of purges began. 351 00:42:21,610 --> 00:42:30,670 The Khomeini strand of revolution killed, imprisoned, drove out, and silenced almost every other part of the revolution's coalition. 352 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:40,480 The violence of this period, and the despair and disappointment that ensued, seeps deeply into the revolution's historiography, 353 00:42:41,050 --> 00:42:47,680 and those engaged in writing about the revolution turned again and again to the same question 354 00:42:48,670 --> 00:42:55,420 why and how did so many strands of thought willingly coalesce around Khomeini and his ilk? 355 00:42:56,380 --> 00:43:03,880 Answers have ranged from the left was duped to everyone was naive, to the cunning of the religious groups, 356 00:43:04,090 --> 00:43:09,280 to the tragedy of the left, to only the Islamists ever really mattered from day one. 357 00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:16,270 But as I hope I have been able to demonstrate to you today, foregrounded the space of the family, 358 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:21,700 and tracing the role it played in the evolution of the revolutionary generation, 359 00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:30,219 can begin to tug at this forehead again, not revealing how the lines between these diverse strands of thought had always been 360 00:43:30,220 --> 00:43:36,190 porous and the connections between them as intimate as the space of the family and. 361 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:55,370 Notification. Thank you so much, Jonathan, for, uh, this amazing talk show was to think through and points out I have, um, 362 00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:06,230 quite a few questions, uh, that have been, uh, um, take advantage of this chair, ask the first question, and then it's important. 363 00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:18,950 Uh. You did mention this, um, in different parts of your talk, uh, when, uh, 364 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:25,040 once when you were talking about how, uh, the, uh, the talk about the hat and the personas and qualities, 365 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:35,899 mostly about, uh, for the 77 and also when you're talking about the, uh, the group that became known as, uh, Islamist activists. 366 00:44:35,900 --> 00:44:41,750 Um, um, it's rather sort of, uh, about, um, after the revolution. 367 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:50,870 But I wonder if the family structure and the name of that structure differed different between between this group, 368 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:58,760 um, the, uh, later colleagues, um, is the familiar say that more the traditionalists, whatever, uh, we call them, 369 00:44:59,330 --> 00:44:59,780 uh, 370 00:45:00,350 --> 00:45:09,740 who were embedded with the neighbourhood communities with the hearts and were with the families supporting such activities for their younger members, 371 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,330 with them being also active within these black neighbourhood communities. 372 00:45:14,750 --> 00:45:25,520 Uh, the, uh, slightly more secular group that that first those who had just come to Tehran from an area that possibly smaller places to, 373 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,500 um, just like study, you are living in dorms and so on and so forth. 374 00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:36,559 So basically an embedded family to to be a part of the family, which I like to tell you why. 375 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:43,580 I guess that would be mostly these modest information, um, uh, other types of families. 376 00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:52,850 Um, that's such a good question. Um, so, I mean, obviously they're all a different team, right? 377 00:45:53,150 --> 00:45:56,360 So this is the problem when you talk about something like generations, 378 00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:03,950 which is why I actually wanted to make sure that we defined what we're talking about as how people consider themselves, 379 00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:11,630 because otherwise you're going to make other generalisations. And so it's so in that sense of course. 380 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:17,270 But let's look at whether these are distinctions. 381 00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:25,339 But just as in two things are just enacting the same kind of processes. 382 00:46:25,340 --> 00:46:30,620 But they look just that's going to be versus they're being completely different processes. 383 00:46:30,620 --> 00:46:34,310 Right. Um, and that's something that we just, I, I would have to look at. 384 00:46:34,370 --> 00:46:44,240 But I'm really glad you mentioned the dorms. Um, I'm let me say, actually, one more thing about the embedded families are the two different things. 385 00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:51,829 I mean, you, the two, the families are embedded is very similarly to what you talked about with hats. 386 00:46:51,830 --> 00:46:52,790 If anything, 387 00:46:53,060 --> 00:47:02,870 I just scratched the surface of the fights of the religious families within themselves because for I didn't read about I didn't tell you guys about, 388 00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:12,410 like, having that, um, not very high median story, which is a family of many, as happens with the mother. 389 00:47:12,890 --> 00:47:18,230 So there's a family, there's a masterpiece. The father is not religious, he's not religious. 390 00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:28,700 So he's the most active part of the national park. But the son who's much younger is medical school is. 391 00:47:30,420 --> 00:47:33,390 Almost scientific person, but is religious. 392 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:49,170 The other son, the narrator, is funny, and the mother is the one who cannot stand that her political son is religious, 393 00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:54,239 because that is not what religion matter. And she, in the sentence he uses, 394 00:47:54,240 --> 00:48:00,840 is that she was intolerant and that the break happens when the family over the 395 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,310 intolerance of the religious mother towards the religiosity of the children. 396 00:48:05,550 --> 00:48:13,740 So I think what I'm trying to do is to ask us all to be a little bit more careful when we're thinking about neighbourhoods, families, 397 00:48:13,740 --> 00:48:23,459 religiosity, that the 1960s, 70s generation had discovered something that was different from their parents and their parents did not. 398 00:48:23,460 --> 00:48:28,080 There were so many stories in the in which, like the well, the religious dad says to the kid, 399 00:48:28,350 --> 00:48:31,679 I didn't read this, but I thought I told you guys about like. 400 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:38,909 But I paused, so I find his friends are in front of a mosque and they've been sort of mobilised by the mosque. 401 00:48:38,910 --> 00:48:47,729 They come in from the mosque, the structure being, um, anti Shah, uh, slogans, and the military jeep comes and they all run away. 402 00:48:47,730 --> 00:48:56,250 And some girls, he runs away because his dad, who's extremely religious and says this happened and the father says, 403 00:48:57,330 --> 00:49:01,290 what does the Shah have to do for you to stop doing this? 404 00:49:01,290 --> 00:49:05,730 How much do I have to tell you that no good will come out of following us? 405 00:49:08,130 --> 00:49:11,880 Right. So there is nothing but the doormats that you mentioned. 406 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,140 I really glad you mentioned it. 407 00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:18,600 And I wonder if what is important is very, very important because going back to the family that broke up with the mother, 408 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:29,070 that story was told because what they wanted to say was that sometimes you hid within the safe space of the family, but you hid from the family. 409 00:49:29,610 --> 00:49:35,460 And those who came from provinces to other university in the to dorms did not have to do that. 410 00:49:35,850 --> 00:49:42,750 Absolutely did not have to do that. But their circles then of trust were not multi ideological because there's a 411 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,950 sense of trust where their friendships and friendships were not linked to. 412 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,090 Pretty much. So you have you have absolute. Thank you so much.