Good afternoon. I'm delighted to be able to chair this meeting, which is a joint meeting between our two centres,
the Russian operations centre, the Middle East centre.
I really enjoy doing this kind of this kind of drug activity which brings our work together.
There are topics which I need to reach out anyway, and this is one such topic.
We have a speaker who is quite well known to many of us here setting out to centres over the last few years.
Our dynamic idea has been really a something of a fiction.
It's been extraordinary how much she has been publishing in this period,
talking to the President and putting us very much to sharing information of the passing of more significant books.
You know, we manage our schools in the right, but Toni goes out to industrial work in case of regional sources and then writes significant books.
So the book we're talking today, Russia and the JCC, which are Professional Council of Tatarstan as part of diplomacy,
is a case study of a wider relationship between Russia and the Gulf States in the post-war period.
And this is truly original because I can't think of another book length study of a constituent part of the Russian Federation.
We're using this as a case of consumer protection, right. From any of the world region.
So that has such a certain greater significance for us in Russia, in European studies,
to understand how there are external relations beyond those of Moscow, just Moscow, Moscow driven, which is often how it's characterised.
So diversification really of relations and I could see in the book for me this is little tricky.
Continue takes us into the period of the war, the war of Ukraine, last chapter.
So we need to explore how that central conflict has impacted on the relations with China.
China is a visiting fellow at the Centre for Islamic Studies, which well-known person in the centre.
It's a wonderful place to visit for those who haven't.
But she's also non-resident fellow with the Gulf International Forum and she's been an academic this term.
ASYMPTOTE So I would be surprised if we see her in that capacity again.
She has previously published the book Caps All the Practice of Friendship Power for 2022, and she's trying to teach various groups,
including the question of post-Brexit Europe and UK policy challenges towards Iran in the Gulf Cooperation Council states.
So looking at the region from frozen contemporary post-Brexit perspective.
She's published academic papers and papers in a whole variety of different journals RUSI General in Institute.
She has since the recent centre claims University is George Mason University.
Plenty of recent activities of this kind. She completed her first degree at Kazan Federal University, which gave New Hampshire many of us a contact.
The inspiration for your current work. And that makes Mexico University.
I wouldn't want push history from Durham.
Here. So the format of this afternoon will be that Donna will talk for some 55 minutes,
something of that kind to introduce them to summarise some of the main findings of the study.
And then we're fortunate we do have a discussant.
Dr. Jonathan, who actually was a former colleague of mine when I was at the Russian Studies Centre and is outside.
She was very cool who are to sticks, but she she is a foremost priority in our country that you actually talked to discuss.
And so Carina agreed at one days notice to offer some comments the past 510 minutes or so to.
Well, so. Dear colleagues and students, it's a great honour to present some of my funding today.
Here is something you squints where they enjoy. None of this is good stuff to convince 19.
And I'm grateful to Professor Eugene Rogers, Dr. Michael Reese,
Middle East Centre for seeing the importance of this project in 2019 and for the opportunity to connect with the university.
I'm also grateful to Professor Roy Allison for a very generous introduction,
and also Roy was always a scholar and colleague on the Russia and Middle East relations.
Thank you so much.
I'm also grateful to Amelie Centre and the Russian and the Eurasian Studies Centre colleagues for all their efforts to put this event.
I'm grateful to all of you for joining us today. I know that some of you travelled from Berlin, some in the yellow.
Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for being a viewer of the book and thank you for sharing some comments of that.
And thank you so much, everyone, for this opportunity and for sharing this moment all day.
For me to give a talk at the prestigious really spread the simulation.
So in my capacity as academic visitor to sat in a school to convince my advisors, well, I published two books and despite my private academic focus,
which being mostly on the U.S. states or Middle Eastern relations, the other side of where I was originally originated,
it's been all this involvement and followed the direction of my scholarship is I was in three phases of
the of my first book Cut-off the practice of granted by our staff that I was intern at the office of the
President there in 2012 when that first really started to interesting What elements or particular strategies
can transform small republics or small countries to the more influential actors in the global audience?
In a way, this book Russian The images that are some of our diplomacy,
it's practical continuation of this way of thinking and how really unsettling the status of
being quite important and linked like important role doing this Soviet and Russian case.
The idea of writing this book I created over five years following the active engagement between Russia and the States.
What was an historical reason? Of course. Solomon Saudi Arabia to Moscow in 2017.
In return, President Russian President visited United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia.
And I've been also personally absorbing all of this disengagement while travelling within the Gulf states.
I've been in different conferences. He just conferences like Abu Dhabi, a forum for peace, and not studying such gatherings.
Really. There are huge number of Russian Muslims. Although I knew that important role played by actually Muslims in the Senate.
And then illustrative example of that, Kimmel, who was a daughter agent and the first consul general who granted.
So the phone recognition is the king of you, just initial so done in 1996.
So thereby the use of cell was the first country will actually acknowledge the kingdom for that.
And then over 90 years later another politician of the other region the current race of somebody village you follow.
He was also chosen to carry the invitation of Russian president to King Salma.
And this historic visit invents a cure. So perhaps this moment cannot be compared with each other.
But in a way it also for me it a researcher clarified the important role and direction,
some changes in political dynamics and the role of Russian Muslim minorities in that process.
And in most of scholarly engagement, I noticed that almost the relation between Russia and the U.S.,
they were considered either for economic relations or defence security, and not really a look at this specific role of Russian agents.
Therefore, the book examines the puzzle of considering the direct links between each of some GCSE over one time years, and research asks us to look.
Firstly, to what extent should Islamic identities have this relations?
And second, how relations between Moscow and Kazan?
Moscow in the Gulf States also contributed to that.
And these two questions they directly with the history of Tatarstan and being as being part of Russia since 1552 and
don't just accept of Islam or the bulgars in 1932 and the development of Arabian state also from where somebody is.
And it's definitely important to part of this story and for a brief introduction of what follows of.
He said it was lovely. I just I felt that it would be interesting to present it in the book.
Though of funding some of the Marines by slamming Russian forces was what he suggested.
Don't look at it. It's like spring, summer, autumn and winter.
And they develop his findings and specifically considering the evidence which we are looking at today.
So it's good that hold this report we do of Islam and modern Russian period is a spring season.
So this period is also a parallel of transformation and establishment of one of the Gulf states is already I mentioned that in 1922,
two kingdoms of you just in this world are united this the kingdom of Saudi Arabia in sixties and so
just a British draw from the Gulf region and encourage them in commercial state to take independence.
And the 1982, the Gulf Cooperation Council was formed and it should be noted that of the Tatarstan Caribbean states,
despite the fact that I'm considering for the first time again,
that's just they really put in their mock-ups I got a sample Tartus, the home office,
more flexible mock-up while their counterparts are much thicker, like Hambali or Maliki or the case of AMA is inflexible by the school.
So all of this contributes to the argument of the book and to this its relations, to your theory and the imam.
The key is we know the purpose of school of us there is constructivism particular relevance to our discussions.
They even my research questions to what extent how shared Islamic identities influence that the some Gulf relations,
the existing theoretical and empirical you scholarship which focuses on identity for us over cooperation between states,
can be helpful for understanding the situation.
But at the same time, we know that there is other set of literature which really consider to focus on identity as a logic.
I see this by dividing between the states that certain assumptions of self and other.
And for example, you one in his book Uses of the Other.
This is the historical evolution of Christian European narrative.
But Jean, the term is the other, and from his famous scholarship,
I intend his epicycles to focus on the relationship between writers of complex speech and one between.
And so we can see that a European or Western relationship with the audience.
In other words, is this the image you can see the relationship between federal governments is constituted by their majority identity and
not really consider how relations will be shape and boost relations between the independent and minority of another state.
So this is a particular gap where the one state contiguous with theory development
efforts examine Muslim JCC states and Russian Muslim Republic of Service.
And the main argument that shared Islamic identities nation which is self and minority self of other states and indigenous
first is self and other have interests in common and others willing to integrate its minorities to this process and secondly,
if self and minorities.
So they have shown interest now with all great existing literature on the subject, I think that's what's really unique and original.
My research, it's the language in its methodology and the chain of evidence collected from and secondary sources in six languages by Native Start-Up,
Russian, English, Arabic and Turkish. Also, I conducted fieldwork in the in public republics because I I'm sceptical that the lack of capital,
the focus of some cultural capital of big Islam.
In Moscow, I met with high elite political elite levels to understand how this relationship called as far as long as is ideal to discuss them further.
So in other words, my work contributes to this a lot of distinct fields of scholarship on Russian relations,
some international studies, other stuff, minority studies.
So let us discuss now the existing relations between ties, etc. and Gulf relations between 1917 and 1990 and immediately after the October revolution,
the Russian government began to take active steps to attract Muslim population of the country of the site of new government.
And as I said, what was initially then Europe, and then the 1920s,
then the start of the socialist Republic was formed and the West should be government also look to the so one Muslim.
That action is one of the main priorities of emerging foreign forces, which initially was very much influenced by ideological attitude.
However, if we look closer here, for example.
He suggests that there were other also reasons why Moscow wants to establish relations among them.
We could see that it was important for a newly a Soviet government to establish relations with their countries, which is so wonderful.
Now you start to attract Muslim population on this country's finances,
say a market for Russian goods in the Middle East and a host, also the activities of Great Britain to achieve this.
But if you don't find the WHO decide to restore relations with Hejaz and so-called invasion into Mecca,
which was the time was very important for you to start also putting through an important mechanism which I look at this through the Muslim factor.
And one of the example of cutting Hakim was known as the Dr. Lawrence of Arabia was born in 1982 in London, which is now only poverty.
But he was such an agent in it. And, Wolf, that's why I wouldn't understand, because the sun and of clean, this could carry more of a legacy.
So this advantage was used for policy making decisions, but particularly and book focuses on his ideas,
which of course, for his diplomacy, a small country, which is Woomera in distribution of gifts.
And I just would like to give some examples of the example of the first.
He's been a direct introduction to even some of the period.
Actually, it was through the had discussion and with the British foreign intelligence officer advisor himself in 1930,
how feel we had good relations with Cuba and then to convinced you can sell to accept taking
is a person who wanted to help defend the rights or the pilgrimage of Muslims from the USSR.
The problem is the Russian sources See, that's the time the British didn't let them through.
The states, fearing the stuffing of Russian presents and penetrating of the so-called communism infection.
Another example of the Muslim factor is a performance of I think you unwrap or small cash make up in the midst of confrontation,
thinking of saying and you just and you over here you will sell.
And this strategic move in many respects change the alignment of forces in the Middle East by giving semantic cover for context.
You keep as like you wrote the letter to even sold asking you and the involved his country you him to give an order to your special
authorities to facilitate our team to make up and after was doing them exchange between letters that didn't even sell them.
I keep up this g accurate and also to a lengthy conversation a couple weeks even out and also with other relic of American government for example,
other officials. So the Russian ambassador officer of the Saudi Arabia former ambassador in his book,
he explains that in fact the distinct package was brilliantly and masterfully.
A few of the aims of Moscow laid the foundation for establishment of efficiently the use of Saudi armament in December 1925 to the field and people.
So it was proclaimed as a given to just as a thought of yes,
but the Soviet government that was and of the Turkish station because the extension of relations
with the same but they they need it now to re-establish again relations with the equal self.
And in that regard thank you it was very instrumental figure he suggests that
to meet even Saudis and himself he just goes behind the wheel of questions.
You go and without thinking any of a place with him, left Jeddah and met him.
Even so, it's just a newly established state in the desert.
And he will stage even by camel, which you kind of was the sign of respect.
And during the conversation, I came up and for you consult about the decision of the Saudi government to recognise that
you are a country so and therefore said union became the first foreign state even place.
The kingdom along with the Delta Muslims are in other also mechanism of using so-called modern language,
spiritual diplomacy, which through the role of some spiritual model in the Russia and saviour,
which to me religious organisation, the world moral region and traditional importance,
the titles, although it's like anything, you fire them into them.
So we just have to in this case is the world Muslim countries which took place in Mecca in 1976.
In the main they were the Soviet government sent to some two delegations there, but the first one was mostly consists from the subtext and the the of.
I then was moved to the Canadian who was also the head of the such a lot of in Russia in the same year and actually involved in a not open official
delegation who was asking all the historians of all of that no known information but looks like they also played some political role in that.
So anyway, that what we can definitely know that the census played a very important role in that time and all their speeches.
They were very supportive of the Senate government and the people.
And the fact that moved to use that for criticism was an act of one of the two or four chairmen of the Congress wouldn't.
But of course, inspect those inspection in Moscow. And the synthesis on this side of the equation was on the side of what it was.
And after the Congress moved to Perkins, who also received gifts from you, consult a Canadian of incest,
which is preserved in the Memorial Museum, museum of his African unit, which was opened in his village of the chap who I used to.
So I was so impressed by the study I went to in the summer.
And this just photos from this museum, which is a special kind of exhibition,
which is just a gift for this man from Congress and despite the importance of torture.
So we within the Senate, we can use the words the kingdom of just in this, especially between 1920s and thirties,
the vote and beneficial for days to himself and the government of the nations.
And in fact he was efforts for building closer links with equal south were vital,
but his efforts didn't contribute to that in peace between the diocese, sister and the Kingdom.
At the same time, Islamic organisation work with importance what the one of the conditions that status but still was crucial
as stated by the centre of the domain in Islam and his brother you lost is leading these conditions.
This again a the view that the only value that was to get a combination between
those the state and all of this can be explained by the internal dynamics itself,
by Kazan, Moscow, along with the Soviet Union relations with Gulf states in 2017 and 1990 in general, which in Chapter three addresses.
Therefore, between 1970 to 1990, in relation between diocese.
And does this come on TV strike is acuity because there was a feel of collaboration between
self and other and then which nature of shared identities of self as this slave to see the
potential challenges raised by others we can use to serve out the gentleman's duality of
power and the threat of a phantom is led to an ocean of disaster status within the state.
A system also this was one in another factor generally which concerned any possibility of formalising relations of the states in any other countries,
including Arabian states and also concerning shape Islamic does just that were
genuinely suppressed during the seven period and by the end of Islam just
earlier and it to for meaning that even limited collaboration if you just feel
to check with for example myself just you didn't have a final impact on that.
Now I'm suggesting for most of the period between 1990 and modern days and they don't for to meet at the age and then after, of course, you start.
Okay, I hope that you remember it was a sprinkle Islam, which I could find.
So the government of such assistance first president of of years so this information about the quantity
and so they had a vision to integrate models such our nationalism into politics and national ideology.
Well simple things to distancing itself from radical mission and and the part of the strategy at the official
expression implementation of state could and this time really for custom relations with the Gulf state appeared.
I mean you could just from a regional religious celebration celebration from Woomera.
And because of water, just the main priority was about survival, survival, their economic interests.
And they were building really a relation with everyone and not really focusing just on the shared identities or just with the gospel.
Another problem was also was challenged in nineties or we need and challenge for
Southern nationalism as we would see with the state and interesting and stuff.
And most of the funding document from the decision states.
So that was kind of was another concern or full of a submission of that.
And then obviously most other stuff.
However this didn't change with the Putin rise to power and this period in 2000 was characterised by the threat of religious extremist.
From the biggest challenge yet and also which approach.
And in me I argue that it's been just moving from security threat perception to more soft power tools.
And for example, it would seem that the government falls asleep or actually became the observer of the importance of this
situation and also some geopolitical changes like the relations between us and Saudi Arabia after 911.
Also invasion of US led invasion of Iraq, because the Gulf states in general losing role,
and especially after this outcome of the Arab Spring and Russia is also increasing role, especially with its intervention.
Syria also changed this dynamics, making more for a working relationship in Russian,
which is sixties and the that time or other Russian republics with U.S. population also played an important role in that regard.
Although we should mention the number of Russian agents, they can conduct diplomatic relations.
So it could be only part of the relative and only really economic cooperation if we could see that.
So this is in jail, independence, preparation for diplomacy forward.
Look, I'm happy to discuss that in Germany and the decision states.
We could see here that this media wanted a turnover of engagement that with Saudi Arabia and UAE.
And for example, this month from Saudi to Russia in 2019 was $125 million.
And that the Soviet Union goal of all the investment from Saudis and the UN came from Russia.
Although the national investment company Islamic Development Bank, investment from UAE to Russia amounted to $764 million and of US $5 million.
And in month another mechanism which is along with the its own for diplomacy and other mechanism, very important,
it's the role of the book of strategic vision of Russian Islamic world,
which was being established by people and I mean the first result of the custom.
But now it's an intention by current and I use some hard and among interesting initiatives I would say is that the UN summit,
which is the only business platform in the world for economic interaction between the agents of the Russian Federation and I countries.
And this looks like especially just like I said, just to put it, just to give overview, overview of what really, you know,
at the events that took place with I think they also had some if will discuss the role of Muslim banks that often during the day.
But there are other mechanism as well the role of this Islamic opposition in jewellers and educational institutions.
However, also despite all this emerging engagement,
there are some limitations and from my interviews we never stop were just determined by ransoms, by companies.
So we know what allows them to go to the US not only and a few comes after diplomacy, which is political stages.
What are those? If we are also over this year we could see that the decline in the special status of Tatarstan in Moscow and Kazan relations.
But at the same time, Moscow offers more opportunities for Kazan to build close relations with eight countries, including the G20 countries.
So in a way, I consider that is a positive sign for this relations.
And later also from my interviews, the elimination of list.
All of these also quite challenging role to bring more investments in probably Tatarstan and most of the states around.
But we are speaking on Ukraine or they funded especially approved them a Russian investment fund, run them directly into the regions.
I'm getting this week with some of those since 2000,
then that that's one particular company in one of the Gulf States relations that this might can be explained by how
Muslims work on integrating its minority is in its policy acknowledging that the Gulf shared identities with its windows.
At the same time, it also concedes that that's not a Gulf state. So they focus on cooperation for shrimp.
I mean, it's still like simple halal lifestyle, Islamic finance, Islamic banking.
And before moving to the just briefly,
I will discuss also them other rational regions of their relations with the decision states and also the impact of the Iraq war.
But I just want to say that I think that in a way, one book was very important just to show this dynamic.
So this relation with the Gulf states, a warship and a lot of explanation why in a way,
Gulf states are showing this neutral position, the Green war with the U.S. factor or the role of a big plus deal over energy sector.
I think the Muslim Buxton also played quite important role for their decisions.
Now, I was briefly to discuss other republics as well.
Russia has two main Muslim population centres,
the North Caucasus and the central question of all the region and will play a key role in possible efforts with the two states.
And see what I don't understand from the start also has a history of Islam and the here and there.
All of the human factors still plays an important role.
Well, I was very quite surprised when I was in the club and did interview with I European of the
Vice-President of the Union of Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the Republic of Workers.
Thus, he suggested that when some Sweden visited the fire during their recent meeting meeting they particularly
wanted to just to come and see the world famous diplomat to bring that some countries so close to each other.
And actually you will see the GDP of the Senate diplomat for a very keen chair of the Middle East of the of studying repressions.
Unfortunately, I think this was excuse and but after a few months, just Americans found the oil in Saudi Arabia.
And when even saw knew about this, what happened with that?
Thank you. There are this kind of explanations, historical explanations.
But he just said from the relations with the Soviet Union and this frozen relations,
they agreed almost for 60 years, another region in some of Caucasus.
And just briefly, I mean, milestones of the development of the North Caucasus region.
And here we see the important role of Chechnya and its leader to some countries.
So if you identify the defence mechanism just by diplomacy installation,
this is they see here that there is importance because of his links already existed due to his father's efforts,
because this network also has seen this personal networks, Christian leadership because of the nice personages forums and conferences.
One of them they cross in the conference, which I have.
It just doesn't happen as well. And much of my research and let's go back to during the Gulf crisis between 2017 and 2021,
It was really very interesting how Chechnya was developing relations with the United States of the crisis, especially in winter.
I had our rumours and the data is built relation of close relation which comes out and in a way it wasn't very much surprising because
that time Russia's foreign policies in the Middle East was balancing relations with all sides and in Russian Muslim republics.
Also. What were balancing this and this relations during the crisis is one another.
Interesting. Oh, I found that some mechanism of they do stuff with every so they also apply non-official methods and distillation.
So they ask us to find the leads of Wolf mentioning the little complex of their books productions was written by the pre Russian being conquered,
and I managed to do all fieldwork work and or 8000 them is accurate and easy.
They could see here just you can be another nation of fools doesn't can name was just.
Macquarie's stance was neutral, and even in March this year,
we witnessed the announcement of making this commitment to resolve the conflict for the long term.
That means we express support for international square efforts in Ukraine and assess the need to respect and also offer daily wage position
on the Russian Federation has been very perhaps unsurprising considering its own historical experience and name of the recognition in 1990.
Now that it has expressed neutral position in the shadow of the Ukraine conflict that was approved by us
too much as a matter of will need to apply as and as an alternative to Russia as Europe's gas supplier.
In December, the GNA was acknowledges the EU's Europe is second largest supplier of LNG,
but at the same time de-risk the Italian wheat position, saying in a way they were in a very similar situation,
the same picture of the larger neighbours and who also suffered from the aggressive policies of the same countries, therefore enough to shake them.
You mentioned President Putin and one of the explanation was because of the days when didn't get the relation to the Russian club.
So they were trying to quell this issue.
Initially, Armand's position was quite mutual and we all of us expected that.
But then it was quite interesting to absorb the mining policies. It seems like in May, for example,
unexpected visit of severe lack of arguing along and some of us would expect that a month probably will need the mediation of U.S. history.
And then why no one can just really they played important role.
But when I spoke with them, one of the official I want you or why you did, though, you didn't take this opportunity and play this important role.
They said that that probably would look terrible to us, saying strategic.
So that is that's another.
But just like to mention that the money should be because of the appear close to you, I suppose is increased for 30% this year.
Saudi Arabia has attempted to balance its relations but would like the new nationalist foreign policy
will go to creating personal relations with the Saudi and US leadership because they important role here.
I argue that economic factors played more.
I think the crucial role had to take the state and its interest in Saudi Arabia, the mediation role in business, war between Ukraine and Russia,
and even considered joining BRICS, which is one of the most important frameworks which Russia plays a leading role.
As Professor Lumpkin stated in one of the conferences.
It wouldn't be previously even possible to imagine that Saudi Arabia wanting to join Greece, given Russia's key role in the group.
And that is, he said, such a move required firm.
So at the same time, in February of 2023, the first visit of Saudi foreign minister occurred to him,
which was also quite a historical event, and so is also the one $400 million each to UAE.
Also develop a sophisticated hedging policy in the crisis, positively affected trade dynamics between Moscow in Abu Dhabi, Russia,
Search for alternative trading partners to replace its severe case with the West is reflected in bilateral relations with UAE,
which grew by 68% by 2022 and recorded $9 billion of which Russian export made $8.5 billion, which is an increase of 71%.
Russians were the biggest international was the property by the city, which is now nicknamed as the white bread.
While it has also of its position as a financial hub thanks to Russian business as well.
So in quote the safe haven from Western sanctions and another way of of invasion also
happened after mobilisation when Russian starting to come into reviewing as well.
Within the context of these relations, we could see that other insults self remain and some quite positive views.
But at the same time, and especially given this relation will continue in Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Kazan.
But at the same time also I look for with a lot of questions about the role of the relation,
natural relation between Moscow and Kazan, where the really Kremlin will continue to be just theme in the meetings.
Minorities into federal policies. This is a very interesting question which doesn't contain cover and confusion
myself from Republicans that are some representative of the Muslim population.
This project has been very personal. Like many other regional populations, without the use of sarin,
one in Russia is difficult for others to be the best separating from national and state context.
And what my research made clear is the importance of not treating nations as homogeneous populations.
Actually, there are a variety of, especially in the Russian multi-ethnic state, as a key facet of political activity.
The culture has its own history and identity that can be easily obscured,
and this book seeks to divert that portion of attention from the global scale towards
the regional and the events that Muslim fathers have been able to create in this case.
In terms of relations with the Gulf States. Above all, it's worth remembering the importance of personal connections to individual actions
and words of shared culture in the development of international relations,
in conducting wide field wars, inquiries, Russians, religious and Muslim, Russians,
Romanian walks of life, ethnic diplomats, religious scholars and politicians,
those in the Balkan business and political process and this have been contributed greatly
to establish this close relations became the Soviet ones and Russia and the Gulf States.
My book is an effort to highlight the important work done by this Muslim population.
They provide an example to the international community of the important role of Muslim minorities in Russia.
Even these their actions can be hard to perceive without knowledge of the context.
Finally, I have a personal hope that the book will prompt further interest in the culture and history of Russian Muslims.
Wolf, as a major source of foreign policy during difficult times and this unique and social adjustment that.
So thank you so much. That was fascinating.
And I would say to me, this touches upon many different areas of research and people here in our census, myself,
I can see here is this will be the next part of understanding Russia, develop relations with the Middle East more generally,
which is the kind of landscape that if we move back to some discussing comments from Dr. regarding
the activity of has the parts that Russia has been studying schools for very many years,
I've seen research problems and in that I'll very quickly I think re-establish itself as a as an eminent permanent scholar of Islam in Russia,
but also more broadly in the post-Soviet and the post-Soviet region through field work in separation.
And of course, well, this was expressed in a number of books, Russian Islam, is that a substantial study have been released to others.
You would like to know the list is long and extraordinary output, really.
So through that time that I was Christian burning myself and later I followed this with astonishment.
We drew a calendar and a little bit into some of the work and Chatham House as well that time.
And she is someone who really has a depth and breadth based on fieldwork in the same way as Diana.
And that's that's something that we must treasure because it's going to be very difficult for
Western scholars to do anything of that kind in Russia because there will be a central database,
but it is more available for scholarly outreach.
So would you would you like to you can you can talk for well, maybe half within like as well.
Thank you. Live action.
Nice to see you as well because we used to get a little little bit ago is in another life if I'm so happy to be here and this beautiful said.
It's just been classy and interesting I think with each minute that's what sisters that our kids.
I mutilations is one.
And I am also particularly happy to be here in connection with this book and I hope that I'm going to lead the honour on the ideals as well.
In the whole, importantly of all its publication, especially in the current highly ideologists, political and media and other native plants.
And to my view, this book is an example of a solution.
At its best, it deals with the complex,
historical and contemporary political and religious developments in the Georgia by using an
inductive method and by drawing on others primary and secondary sources in different positions.
Then the third Turkish out of Russia that made this, including the journals that humans intend to use in the best interest of them,
and that was done as well in the Gulf is therefore alien to my view,
presents a refreshing counterbalance to the policy and the debate of the dominance of deductive methods and what it is.
It's prompted by the importance of the situation in the Ukraine as the book's uniqueness lies in its also thus the obligation,
again, as far as I know, a little of all them, and thus the nation's most activist approach to the study was.
And all of that was done in the Russia relations with the Gulf of Initiative of the States,
as you can use to explain from after the evolution of this entire book.
This makes a notable charitable contribution as well as in course, in all knowledge of Soviet, Russian and the post-Soviet Russian policy,
as in this particularly the role that it was done as long as the Russian or Soviet post-Soviet politics of.
In particular, it's done and done is done as well as a little of identity politics in the world, in international politics.
Then this choice of the best relations with the both states on the books that he started, I think is well argued and justified because,
as you showed, your presentations and others historically have played a central role in the development of a Russian state.
The state put Russian society and Russian culture, as well as the Soviet Russian relationship with the Gulf states.
But he means allegedly understandable.
This is something that, for example, to the Soviet Union and Russia, relations with Egypt, Syria or Iraqi Algeria.
And given this in the past, the boundaries of the Russian.
So the Soviet the Soviet look is maybe the vocal employers,
also the productive concept of shared identities as opposed to the in the relationship of the Soviet Union.
Russia being a multi-ethnic, multi confessional state.
It was both of Muslim states. And also, to its credit, that it was the honest living arrangement of before it was in production.
She she managed to check the structure of the Soviet related to the events of the Soviet intervention tended to and then she argues,
I think were justifiably in favour of growing of identity politics in both the relations between Russia and the West,
between Russia and the Muslim world. So congratulations.
It's been a great welcome and a Zionist.
So provoking book also raises some important theoretical, epistemological and contextual questions.
Again, it's it's much like this goes on it. A lot of it is.
For example, they discover that in chapter seven,
the letter asks a question about a school and a possible is to use a particular international relations theoretical
framework such as did he ideas on this modification of liberal to pontification of constructivist approach.
Is that one just all of the ongoing unravelling of the unipolar centred international system through Berkowitz's alphabet?
This is a merger of power and identity politics and in the background of the decline of liberalism motivated.
Just things to to discuss as I was discussing.
The other issue is there's a correlation between the Shiite Muslim identities of that
that's done as well as this doesn't stop and Chechnya and the Gulf states and in fact,
the identities of different Muslims is definitely different in different languages, Shia identity, both Muslim and ethnic.
But what's this turkey here? Well, of course, if you're Muslim and you come in with the affinity, on the other hand.
So would you share the identities of those in the event of the much larger that community in more than Turkey,
than in the Gulf, as an all of that, such as,
for example,
the use of tuna and others to further that intellectuals in the formulation of the Turkish national ideology in order to encompass the Turkey as well.
The significant Turkish economic, cultural,
religious and religious presence of the US in the past about including widely on that and yet the conflict of the some people in the.
So I want us to talk on the phone no more.
How does it the outstanding political intellectual establishment position itself in relation
to Turkey and particularly to the Ankara spearheaded a museum or the Turkish states.
This is given to the security, for example.
And so that it may be just question. I know it's not from if they provide for this, but it's interesting for you.
So is this is that that's w Islam?
Yes. Because then it's linked with Judaism as formulated by Aerofoil for Cuba,
which was one of the causes of interviewees, and show his theories that developed and said, oh,
even in a position to oppose Europe's your Islam, as advocated by myself to be a modern as it was,
or European Islam as defined by just an insensitive five year all and the.
So when I interviewed and I don't thank you live in my life in 1997 and he was the opposite of the
other ones that the future of the left the allies in Europe after the war the most popular he said,
will always be moving like Scotland from Moscow, from political and cultural influence activities.
This is out to all your Islam is basically move that Yugoslavian loving European Muslims,
but it's called all of us indicative of our heritage in historical from last century of using it in all those who preach our identity with Europe.
So I just wonder what's the what's now happened to Europe Islam and especially given what's the current situation in the
West to get all of the [INAUDIBLE] on the continent said he would put himself to fear and he also part of other Sunni,
not just so he just avoids the Turkish next vulnerable to the deceitful conduct.
But he acknowledged that Mahmoud Them was not a group.
So he is the father. What is my love? Jihad. So I just one day just to get more about this.
Yeah, it's a big business. That's the motivation for us to.
Thank you very much. Diana, you could address a few of the comments from very briefly some of the important great points.
Thank you so much about that.
This first question about whether we turning towards the role of identity in unipolar or multipolar, whatever, we are heading down the world.
So I think that it's very interesting, especially in the relations now between Russia and Iran, how they're being developed.
First of all, on the global scale, we could see here,
I think this the idea of anti Western junta in terms of its elite level understanding of that Putin has good relations with the Supreme leader,
Khamenei. And then you see also who was who was before the Ukraine crisis in Moscow.
Also, he was just defending and controlling the same narratives which Moscow was discussing about the Western position in general,
the role of the West in the world, and the kind of with the aim to do to change that realities of this world,
to fulfil all the role towards the multi polar world.
And here we see these policies overdid the legislation, for example.
But considering that the importance of the the donor, but at the same time,
because of the sanctions, Russia and China especially, they were working very hard,
especially since 2008 with the global crisis and then when an additional credit coming in 2014 and then now they they
started to even more push and bring other countries as well to this agenda policy then because of the sanctions,
again, the idea of having the financial system united on the financial system with Iran and Russia.
Yeah, I mean, they're also very working very hard to avoid this kind of economic interdependence from the West,
and they are working on that direction of I've been thinking this year how we can in general explain what Russia or Iran or China,
what's the world or that they view. And I just found the easy answer.
Just consider me the main elements of the liberalism, the economic independence.
They're just trying to do just a challenge. And it comes to the BRICS as well of the multi.
This is the role of the for example, NITO or EU.
They try to bring another strong organisations over the BRICS or SHARDING urbanisation just to balance this important institutions.
The same. They do that with economic independence, with dollar and with the liberal values.
The differently they can do it with authority more a way of oh, being authority, fighting, spreading this in jail.
So if you speak about this identity at all in the global scale, those would be the main factor.
What unites them, I would argue on the Shia.
It's also very interesting because the regional dynamics and this the identities speak, they also very interesting play to do this.
And here I think the the best example of the Pakistan and their relations with Iran because are really in the the biggest majority of Shia.
And I was quite surprised when I was actually in the Kingston and I saw this the aim in the band,
which is the call for the support of Allah, so called their vision on that.
And also another example, I was in Moscow in December in the International Muslim Forum,
and there were a lot of representatives from the Islamic world in the forum from Iran, definitely from Afghanistan,
from Palestine, and this rhetorical, anti anti-Western,
rhetorical that we need another quote which can be as an alternative Russia power and the Muslim world support because of the US,
the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq.
So and they kind of argue that we need another alternative and that the end of Russia can be this alternative, which is quite interesting.
And the most interesting was for me when in Friday's this prayer and this forum,
Iranians started to discuss how the West interfered with the domestic policies, with the protest in Iran.
That was something I didn't expect that to be honest with what would happen in the mosque in Moscow.
But. This is happening.
And I think that shows they are all in the way identities and religious fact and how they play also smoothly in international relations.
If you ask me whether Iran really support the Shia only population deal with the Russian republic based on the Shia,
we have this kind of I don't know, they deal with that often as well were of a Sunni population.
And they just share this kind of the the pragmatic policies, the policies in terms of the economic interests of,
for example, to or now especially overcome the Western sanctions the same time.
And there were even also report that they will be open the the the the factory of drones building drones, which is quite interesting as well.
I mean, within the current context of the latest with Colin, this comment about relations with Turkey, Turkey is also one of the key leading partners,
economic partners, culturally important actors, and that was in the delegation with the the rise of Kurdistan.
The data comes in to Turkey and it was really quite interesting how they just speak.
Our delegation to Qatar and Turkey speak doesn't impact collective and then things are there and you have this the in diplomacy,
this fitting of the culture of identities, they play a very important role and I think Tatarstan in the workplace also very good on that card.
But also I want to mention the fact when this situation occurred between Russian jets and Turkey shooting down.
Yes. That the thought of some leader,
he played a very important role in getting this relations because for Tatarstan
it was quite like around 60 or 65% of Muslims are coming from from Turkey.
So it was a quiet moment for them.
But also while being in the Republic, I started to see that a lot of Arabs or representatives from the States started to come to Tatarstan.
I think it was eye opening for Tatarstan so that we have to diversify our relations with all Muslim countries,
not just rely on Turkey because we don't know what would happen tomorrow and then in Russia.
So I remember they come just came to the special economic zone just then we just buy all of this special economic zone.
It was only question what was what They didn't they didn't really invest a lot on that regard.
But it was interesting to see about the commission, the Gulen.
It's another amazing, interesting question because I interviewed him and he's a multi of Tatarstan
and I ask a question about the differences of Mock-ups and he thought of that.
It's more can also pragmatic in the way of relations even with in Turkey we're a share one one
but at the same time politically we have different propaganda with different media channels,
we have different groups. So we are part of the Russian Federation.
So we look ways also we behave based on the kind of Russian federal interests.
And the our position is more pragmatic, although we we religiously he is following Turkish colleagues.
But politically, I think this is more pragmatic view.
And it's not just the muftis and women's view of role, my interactions with other peace and presidents,
I also see that they just follow kind of this line policies.
On the Turkic nations. I mean, I think that it's this idea that they were very popular, especially during that time,
and that there's some pay the price for that because the Kremlin considered this possibility to fall at that time, especially during the time.
And I think since then we see a lot of these ideas.
So that sort of can be part of this. Also, I think they just thought they would be dealing with that more in pragmatic terms when it's convenient.
That part of kind of this Turkic nation, they develop this relations.
But in reality, like, I don't see it's kind of effective for equal example to for the federation for example, is never accurate.
But with the now with Azerbaijan, it's interesting what's happening in the what's happening in the Middle East,
the relation between the state relations between Iran and Azerbaijan.
And I think that in this regard, maybe we can discuss in the future questions or I can address that as well.
What's there will be the role of Russia in this regard and how it would affect also the Russian role in the Middle East.
I think that's a very interesting and also dynamic side of what's happening.
And the point about the Russian outside Russian Federation.
So so because of course it puts out that so these regions which Russia uses within its zone of influence but are in a grey area.
So we should understand that the eastern part of the Russian Federation,
so they follow the Russian Federation's policies and they build relations or that they like,
for example, during the Crimea in 2014 lost a lot of representative who were from Tatarstan who were trying to build links with Tartus.
Although I think Kazan thought of some Crimean Tatars, they really did it.
Everyone consider them ancestors because they don't have like a lot of faith.
I don't know what they mean. They totally Turkic means that historically more closer to Ottomans.
So now and I think in this regard, maybe this way is based on relations as well, because the mentality of the different nationalities.
But I just following the distance of the the race, this is especially after the Ukraine.
I mean, you've been travelling a lot to speak Islam or how old is post-Soviet Belarus?
He was in the United Arab Emirates and Turkey again, which again, I think explains after the just in March of last year, he was in Iran,
which also I think shows some dynamics towards its foreign diplomatic priorities, where they should with whom they should deal with you.
And now the role of the especially the role of the group of strategic vision,
Russia Muslim world where the Tatarstan is chair of lease important board for building relations with Islamic world.
But I want to argue that perhaps here the role of Tatars will be that are some jail will be declining as well,
because now will we see more examples how the federal government played a more in a far more active understanding?
How is Muslim? What is important? For example, just the Discover Summit, which I mentioned, it was under the Tatarstan kind of umbrella,
but now it would be under federal government umbrella and the vice president was not.
It was also thought that he was minister previously, but he will end up paying more attention.
When I was Moscow as well, I started to see that the role of Moscow especially started to play theatres, but from Moscow,
from federal centre, started to play more important role to build this connection with the Islamic world and with the Gulf States.
Yes, I wanted to ask about that myself because we touched on was different to other republics in that you have this direct injection,
you have a much more strong presidential position.
The president was was was more prominent.
And, you know, there was a period in the early 1990s when there was even a little sort of some shades of effort towards seeking a bit more autonomy.
The idea of the people's militia, which was then stopped because of what happened in Chechnya.
But this is this has changed. I mean, recently the the direct control presidential control through.
His appointment to the president. This is a shift of shifted to balance perception.
I mean, maybe there were a few little straws in the wind of the good times of Turkey when
when Turkey went and shot down the Russian jet and the sanctions were imposed.
That's how I remember Tatarstan. Said that he would continue its trade in the same way as Kazakhstan did as well, which is also urged to.
Respect the sanctions through the Eurasian Economic Union because it is so important to do it,
which might have been a little bit of the Kremlin this time.
We need to ensure that this is effectively controlled.
So the story is one where the tougher stance is proved to be more underneath the effective controls to have a function,
but it's more tightly regulated. Would that be fair to say?
I would expect that to be the case moving forward in all these development tools, all these relationship that you've discussed.
Thank you so much. This is a very important question as well to understand in general the status of Tatarstan,
especially because definitely after the collapse of the USSR, there was a referendum which really said that we we want independence.
And that's why that time Moscow and Kazan signed an agreement to keep it within the Russian Federation, and that was they were giving more,
let's put, than the way economic power at the time and politically, although they became part of the Russian Federation.
But the dynamics started to change and with the prolonged the agreement and in 2007, again,
this the question about what we will do with that agreement and federalism didn't accept that.
So to further and also the question was another over the status of principle,
because before Tatarstan president was the only one who was a president of son republic.
And then there were also discussions how you will know the name.
But then the discussion was like, we need only one president, which is the president of Russian Federation.
Our president was and the other some general was quite unhappy with that.
And then they came with this idea of race, which is basically also, again,
shows some connections with the Muslim world, just to call it not hard, but different.
Yes, But at the same time, what I'm trying to argue in my view with this whole erosion of the kind of for the the the republic,
they started to give them more of the opportunities to build relations with the Muslim world.
Now, situation are changing because before the Ukraine it was the law was signed the
course of law and the public power and that basically all regional ministers,
they will be appointed by the federal government. So more with the power shifts towards the Moscow and towards the to the federal centre.
Yes. So the power of diplomacy is not going to move towards diplomacy.
It's actually the issue with the Tatarstan.
It's in the middle of the Russian Federation. It doesn't have a choice as you.
Diana captured a very, very fascinating exploration of this novel topic for myself, and I suppose most of us.
The book is out and available.
It's at the reduced price. You can see from the flyer. Yes.
And I would say to it, yes, Yes. If I may, I just would like in conclusion,
I think because it's a very timely topic and we didn't really discuss what's the outlook of Russia's course in the Middle East.
Perhaps it's just to offer some scenarios, what we could see of the Russian position in general, if you're interested.
Yes, yes, yes. I think there are a lot of difference from the outcomes of the Ukraine war.
But at the same time, in the short run, a lot of discussions are occurring that Russia is still in the Middle East.
And with the normalisation of Assad, for example, and accepting it with within the Arab League and the role of Russia in Syria, it will continue.
At the same time on Jordan, for example, or Iraq.
It's very important, like Russia and all of its to use this space to Iraq just to to to have a link to Syria,
which again shows the importance of this place.
You states, as already mentioned, the key defence and the big players allies for for Russia,
Algeria, Morocco also play a very important role for energy security in Turkey.
We have to see the outcome of the elections, what it will be.
But in general the main kind of prevailing idea that the opposition views, it's not very different from the government.
So I expect that it would at least relations would continue with Turkey as well.
So in general, in Yemen, just quite also interesting observation.
When do you think the war started? Two countries or two players, they accepted the danger since the last referendums.
First was Syria and other causes. So it's quite interesting as well how the Yemen here was involved and showed the position.
So in short, I suppose that we see Russia there,
but in the neutron also we just use about the China order to build a base in UAE or it's
Chinese diplomacy and building of diplomatic relations for the Saudis and Iranians.
So I think that the growing role of China is also that Russia will stay there.
But from my understanding, one of the players, it's a we don't need to consider,
it's one kind of alternative to us or Europeans who have their own, I think questions about just we.
And now the question will be and in discussions where we should bring with
example Turkey to the discussion or just to see because of this normalisation.
So everyone has their own issues.
Russia also with Ukraine, I think this is a which is the main driver of its foreign policies, especially in the Middle East as well.
So we need to see. But it's definitely exciting times to see Russia's policies towards that.
And I would like to thank you so much for having time to come today and to discover more about this very timely of relations.
Thank you so much.