1 00:00:00,620 --> 00:00:09,650 My name is William Bruce. I'm a fellow of the Middle East Centre, and it is my immense pleasure to introduce tonight's student who is Russia, Latif. 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:18,170 She is a researcher and a writer based in the San Francisco Bay area, and she's a first generation Egyptian-American. 3 00:00:18,890 --> 00:00:25,640 And she travelled to Cairo in 2011 to conduct research and graphic research on the uprising. 4 00:00:26,180 --> 00:00:29,480 Uprising, which is known as the January 25th Revolution. 5 00:00:30,140 --> 00:00:39,980 Her interests include social movements and revolutions, the study of gender, class, race and ethnicity, Islamic studies, and Middle Eastern studies. 6 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:48,770 She she's the author of a book that came out of her research titled Tahrir Youth Leaders of the Leaderless Revolution. 7 00:00:48,830 --> 00:00:52,470 We have them here. I'll take a couple of copies. Yeah, unfortunately. 8 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:59,750 I'll give you guys a QR code at the end. Uh, okay. Yeah. So there'll be a QR code at the end, which you can use to get a discount on buying the book. 9 00:01:00,770 --> 00:01:10,940 Um. Her book is an activist ethnography that explores the themes of leadership and organisation in the Egyptian revolution. 10 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,459 Today, she's going to discuss the links between Egypt's Revolutionary Youth Coalition, 11 00:01:16,460 --> 00:01:23,090 which was the most prominent movement during the revolution, and activism with the Palestinian struggle for liberation. 12 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:27,890 I was also in Egypt during oh, 2011 and 2012. 13 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:36,050 For me, the revolution seems both near and far, like it happened yesterday, but also at the same time, it feels like a distant memory. 14 00:01:36,490 --> 00:01:45,710 Uh, and so I'm looking forward very much to Russia. This talk, which I'm sure will once again make the January 25th revolution vivid for us. 15 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:49,480 Thank you. Thank you so much. Long term. Thank you all for coming. 16 00:01:49,490 --> 00:01:54,560 Um, I'm really, uh, honoured and grateful for this opportunity to be here with you today. 17 00:01:54,950 --> 00:01:59,809 Um, not just to share my research on the Egyptian revolution, um, 18 00:01:59,810 --> 00:02:05,440 but to also think out loud with you about its relevance to, uh, to this current moment of rupture. 19 00:02:05,450 --> 00:02:13,040 We're in, uh, with the Gaza and the global movement building up in solidarity with Palestinians and their struggle for liberation. 20 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,820 Um, and I think it's important that we think about these two causes together. 21 00:02:17,180 --> 00:02:27,290 Uh, because they're inextricably, um, interlinked with deeply intertwined histories and bound up futures, making them basically, uh, one in the same. 22 00:02:27,980 --> 00:02:32,510 And, of course, uh, what ties them together are the common forces they're up against. 23 00:02:33,050 --> 00:02:41,030 Um, so on the one hand is the settler colonial, uh, state of Israel, the US's imperial outposts in the region. 24 00:02:41,390 --> 00:02:50,870 Um, dispossessing and massacring Palestinians. Um, and, on the other hand, are the sort of authoritarian regimes, um, complicit in this oppression. 25 00:02:51,260 --> 00:02:54,830 Uh, chief among them, um, Washington's clients and Cairo. 26 00:02:55,250 --> 00:03:06,920 Um, so since the Camp David peace Accords in 1979, uh, Egypt has been an indispensable ally in maintaining U.S. interests in the region. 27 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:12,679 Um, it has worked closely, uh, with Israel to protect its, um, security, uh, 28 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:19,310 by repressing Palestinians alongside them and upholding the blockade on the houses from the Rafah border. 29 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:27,290 Um, and at the same time, Egypt, the Egyptian state, represses its own people, um, much of whom are in solidarity with, 30 00:03:27,290 --> 00:03:33,260 uh, their neighbours and object to their government's complicity, um, in this grave injustice against them. 31 00:03:33,860 --> 00:03:43,640 Um, and Egyptians know very well, um, that this solidarity is one of the reasons, uh, why the US propped up the autocrats that tyrannised them. 32 00:03:44,630 --> 00:03:50,390 Um, obstructing them from achieving genuine democratisation, um, in their country. 33 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:58,550 So it's both the anti-Zionism of Egyptians, um, and their desire to upend this imperial order, 34 00:03:58,940 --> 00:04:04,760 uh, that keeps Egypt subservient to us, uh, to the interests of the US, um, and the West. 35 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:13,009 That really makes them this huge threat. Um, so, as we know, a government responsive to Egyptian public opinion, uh, 36 00:04:13,010 --> 00:04:21,410 would basically spell the end of the Zionist project, U.S. hegemony and, um, the Arab powers that, uh, profit from them. 37 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:31,700 Um, and so this is why a Palestinian intellectuals such as George Habash saw that region while wide revolts were necessary for their liberation. 38 00:04:32,210 --> 00:04:39,140 Um, his famous slogan, the road to Jerusalem passes through um, man, Damascus and Cairo speaks to this, 39 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,460 uh, and it's a, uh, a belief that Egyptians have actually long shared. 40 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,969 Um, and in fact, we saw echoes of this slogan, um, during the 2011, uh, 41 00:04:49,970 --> 00:04:55,850 revolution with signs that read, uh, Jerusalem's liberation begins with Cairo's um, 42 00:04:55,850 --> 00:05:03,380 and we actually saw actions from the revolutionaries that, um, demonstrated their solidarity and belief in this idea. 43 00:05:04,460 --> 00:05:15,020 So in 2011, for instance, uh, Egyptian protesters stormed the Israeli embassy, uh, in Cairo twice and expelled the ambassador. 44 00:05:16,310 --> 00:05:25,610 And in November of 2012, during another Israeli operation in the US, uh, a convoy of Egyptian activists, uh, broke the siege. 45 00:05:26,310 --> 00:05:36,650 Rafah border. Um, and this convoy was over 550 people strong, making it the largest, uh, civilian group to enter the strip since 1967. 46 00:05:36,980 --> 00:05:42,470 And in fact, one of the most moving, um, Egyptian expression expressions of, uh, solidarity, uh, ever. 47 00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:53,540 Um, and in this joint press conference they had with Palestinian um, activists at that hospital, uh, during this, um, kind of convoy mission. 48 00:05:54,020 --> 00:06:00,530 Uh, Egyptian organisers emphasised that the Egyptian revolution would not succeed unless Palestine was free. 49 00:06:03,340 --> 00:06:07,270 Okay, so now with that preface, um, and these kind of interconnections, uh, 50 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:13,180 between these struggles in mind, uh, I want to shift gears to focus on the question of praxis, um, 51 00:06:13,180 --> 00:06:19,089 by taking a closer look at, like, what actually happened when Egyptian activists tried to, uh, 52 00:06:19,090 --> 00:06:25,090 their kind of their hand at liberating Cairo and by extension, Jerusalem, uh, through revolution in 2011. 53 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,320 Um, and what we can learn from that experience, uh, for the struggle ahead. 54 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:34,180 Um, and my remaining discussion will be based on my book that is used, 55 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:40,000 which tells the story of the young people who instigated the Egyptian revolution. 56 00:06:40,090 --> 00:06:45,819 Um, and through their story explores the themes of leadership and organisation, uh, 57 00:06:45,820 --> 00:06:52,390 in the movement and so beyond, just trying to shed light on the experience of Egypt's revolutionaries. 58 00:06:52,780 --> 00:07:00,549 Uh, my goal with this book is to ask some bigger questions about the future of revolutionary organising, 59 00:07:00,550 --> 00:07:05,020 um, in the 21st century, as well as the challenges facing mass movements today. 60 00:07:05,590 --> 00:07:13,630 Um, I think with this escalating crisis in the region, um, and the new opportunities, it's opening up for activists there and beyond. 61 00:07:14,020 --> 00:07:16,360 Uh, these questions to me feel especially urgent. 62 00:07:18,430 --> 00:07:26,080 Um, and so the questions that drive this study, uh, revolve around tropes that, um, surfaced during the early days of the revolt. 63 00:07:26,620 --> 00:07:33,610 Um, as many of you will recall, when those kind of I mean, some of you might be young, but those of us who are older, 64 00:07:33,850 --> 00:07:37,990 when those kind of inspiring images of the, you know, Egyptian masses, um, 65 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,490 you know, revolt were kind of erupting onto our social media feeds back in 2011. 66 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,170 Uh, there were all kinds of, um, new phenomena that we were being told we were witnessing. 67 00:07:48,010 --> 00:07:55,750 So the media narrative at the time was that this was a spontaneous, leaderless uprising that was powered by social media. 68 00:07:56,770 --> 00:08:03,850 Um, for the first time, we heard terms like Facebook revolution. Um, and at the same time, a lot was being said about it being youth led. 69 00:08:04,750 --> 00:08:10,659 And so these scenes and sort of descriptions really, um, inspired and fascinated, fascinated me, 70 00:08:10,660 --> 00:08:15,700 not just as Egyptian, um, all the way in California, but also as a student of social movements. 71 00:08:16,420 --> 00:08:21,370 Uh, I was especially intrigued by this tension between these descriptions. 72 00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:25,839 Like I wondered, how could it be leaderless and youth led, you know, which one was it? 73 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:31,630 Could it be both? Um, and so I decided to travel to Cairo to see what I might learn. 74 00:08:32,530 --> 00:08:41,540 Um, and sure enough, what I discovered was that, uh, this kind of spontaneous, leaderless, um, tropes were inaccurate, right? 75 00:08:41,670 --> 00:08:45,460 They really failed to understand, uh, the movement on its own terms. 76 00:08:46,060 --> 00:08:55,420 Um, and so I realised that a more useful and maybe theoretically generative approach was to take for granted that there were leaders in the movement, 77 00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:59,140 as in any movement, because there's really no such thing as a truly leaderless movement. 78 00:08:59,620 --> 00:09:03,220 Um, and instead try to understand, uh, their agency in this moment. 79 00:09:05,230 --> 00:09:08,770 Um, and so the questions I'm going to focus on for today's presentation are. 80 00:09:09,220 --> 00:09:14,200 What were the key conditions that enabled the use agency as revolutionary leaders? 81 00:09:15,070 --> 00:09:21,880 And then what were the constraints on that agency that prevented them from achieving a winning outcome for their movement? 82 00:09:22,990 --> 00:09:29,379 Um, and so these questions in my mind, I think, uh, help us recover really critical learnings from the, the, um, 83 00:09:29,380 --> 00:09:35,860 protagonists behind this movement, um, including lessons that we would miss if we just kind of accepted this leaderless narrative. 84 00:09:36,730 --> 00:09:44,690 Um, asking any questions. Um, so I'm going to give you some brief context for my, um, study. 85 00:09:45,170 --> 00:09:48,739 Um, I'm just going to remind you of the key players and, um, you know, 86 00:09:48,740 --> 00:09:53,899 this kind of brief timeline of what we call the revolutionary period, uh, which spanned about four years total. 87 00:09:53,900 --> 00:10:02,300 And this includes four sub periods. Um, the first is, of course, the 18 day mass uprising that began on January 25th, 2011. 88 00:10:02,750 --> 00:10:06,170 Um, and this was, uh, the event that kind of led to the ouster of Mubarak, 89 00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:14,630 who had been in power for 30 years and had consolidated Egypt into an authoritarian, neoliberal police state. 90 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:23,210 Um, the epicentre of the uprising was, of course, the famous Tahrir Square and the grievances that drove Egyptians to the streets. 91 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,600 Um, were both social, economic and political in nature. 92 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,800 They included crushing poverty, political repression, police brutality, rampant corruption, and, 93 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:39,860 of course, discontent with the country's foreign policy, especially its U.S. Israeli relations. 94 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:48,860 Um, the second is the 18 month democratic transition period that was overseen by the military body known as GAF, 95 00:10:48,950 --> 00:10:53,780 uh, the Supreme Council of Armed Forces. Um, they took over power after removing Mubarak. 96 00:10:54,320 --> 00:11:02,660 This now marks the beginning of, uh, when the Muslim Brotherhood also, um, which was Egypt's largest, most organised, um and oldest opposition group, 97 00:11:03,140 --> 00:11:06,830 they now break away from the multi ideological, um, 98 00:11:06,890 --> 00:11:14,600 revolutionary coalition that ousted Mubarak and begin to look out for their own interests and play the political game accordingly. 99 00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:24,080 Uh, the third period of Morsi's one year presidency, following Egypt's first free democratic, uh, election in June 2012. 100 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,990 Um, he's, of course, the candidate of the Muslim Brotherhood. 101 00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:33,140 Um, and then the fourth period begins, uh, with the June 30th, um, uprising against Morsi, 102 00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:36,890 which was followed by the July 3rd coup that removed him from power. 103 00:11:37,340 --> 00:11:41,940 Um, and then we saw the horrific events of the year of, uh, and, um, 104 00:11:41,940 --> 00:11:47,240 now the square massacres, uh, of his supporters who were calling for his reinstatement. 105 00:11:47,870 --> 00:11:53,150 Um, and so this now marks this rise, the beginning of his rise to power, um, 106 00:11:53,570 --> 00:11:57,890 which signalled the defeat of the revolution at the hands of the counter-revolution. 107 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:03,169 Um, and it also marked the beginning of what is arguably, um, Egypt's most, uh, 108 00:12:03,170 --> 00:12:07,490 repressive, uh, you know, the most repressive period in Egypt's modern history. 109 00:12:08,030 --> 00:12:10,490 Uh, which we're still unfortunately living through today. 110 00:12:11,570 --> 00:12:18,050 Um, and so this is just to give you a sense of, like, how my field work, um, and interviews with activists mapped out onto this timeline. 111 00:12:20,060 --> 00:12:29,330 Um, so the group that I ended up focusing on, um, is the Revolutionary Youth Coalition, um, also known as ROIC or extraction in Arabic. 112 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:36,500 Um, and let me just clarify that this was only one of many different groups that were active in the revolution. 113 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:41,360 Um, but they stood out as an important group to focus on for a few reasons. 114 00:12:42,420 --> 00:12:48,930 Uh, first, the ROIC was made up of the six major, uh, youth movements that were most active on the ground, um, 115 00:12:48,930 --> 00:12:58,500 leading up to January 25th, um, all of whom were united, uh, in their opposition to the regime and sort of the oppressive status quo. 116 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,710 They, uh, reflected the heterogeneity of, uh, Egypt's revolutionaries. 117 00:13:05,250 --> 00:13:10,709 So they included men and women, um, working in upper class youth, uh, 118 00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:16,350 Muslims and Coptic Christians, uh, liberals, leftists and um importantly, Islamists. 119 00:13:16,380 --> 00:13:18,390 Um, mainly used from the Muslim Brotherhood. 120 00:13:19,470 --> 00:13:28,530 Um, and they played a key role in planning, uh, the mass actions on January 25th, including a really critical protest march, 121 00:13:28,530 --> 00:13:34,739 um, without which we might not have actually had a revolution to speak of today, um, or even an Arab Spring. 122 00:13:34,740 --> 00:13:37,530 And I know that's a bold claim, but I will defend it shortly. 123 00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:44,970 Um, and then after January 25th, they took a lead role in sort of organising the sit in, um, in Tahrir Square. 124 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:51,990 They continue to play an important leadership and organising role in the, uh, revolutionary scene after Mubarak's ouster. 125 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:59,010 Um, the RBC was also the first unified front, uh, born of this nationwide revolt. 126 00:13:59,670 --> 00:14:04,830 Um, and they were, in fact, the closest thing the revolution, um, ever had to a vanguard organisation. 127 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,379 Um, which makes them the best candidates in my mind for, uh, helping us understand, um, 128 00:14:10,380 --> 00:14:14,850 leadership processes in the movement and activist, uh, agency in the revolution in general. 129 00:14:17,330 --> 00:14:23,960 Um, so now I want to take a closer look at the activist agency, um, during this period by looking at it through three different themes. 130 00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:30,290 Uh, the first has to do, uh, with this question of spontaneity and leader lessness. 131 00:14:30,650 --> 00:14:38,750 Um, the second has to do with the challenges the activists, uh, faced as they tried to establish revolutionary leadership. 132 00:14:39,230 --> 00:14:44,480 You know, like how that unfolded in the 18 day uprising and then the remaining revolutionary period. 133 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,570 The third has to do with how, uh, horizontal ism played out, uh, during the movement. 134 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:58,160 So how it was an advantage, um, early on, then a liability and even a catastrophe by the end. 135 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,900 Um, and so these latter two things are going to go hand in hand, and I'll discuss them, uh, together. 136 00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:08,940 So I'm going to begin by telling you the story of January 25th, 2011, 137 00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:13,840 this watershed day in Egyptian history, from, I think, an angle that will be new to a lot of you. 138 00:15:14,510 --> 00:15:17,470 Um, imagine it's the end of the day on January 25th. 139 00:15:17,830 --> 00:15:25,000 There are thousands and thousands of Egyptians protesting in Tahrir Square calling for the regime's downfall, 140 00:15:25,450 --> 00:15:30,880 um, and an unprecedented uprising that shocked pundits and the protesters themselves alike. 141 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:38,740 What made this event such a game changer wasn't just the exceptionally large number of protesters who came out, 142 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:45,220 but it was the type of people who came out. So we saw old people, young people, wealthy people, and notably very poor people. 143 00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:54,729 Um, and the fact that they managed to circumvent the police that were deployed against them and descend upon this strategically located, 144 00:15:54,730 --> 00:15:57,790 uh, sprawling open square in the centre of Cairo. 145 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,230 And this latter point really can't be emphasised enough because, remember, 146 00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:07,930 Egypt was a police state with a terrifying riot police force that was specifically 147 00:16:07,930 --> 00:16:13,030 designed to prevent the large amassing of people and quash protests. 148 00:16:13,540 --> 00:16:21,579 Um, and the authorities themselves had anticipated these protests, um, widely, um, and, uh, because they were widely announced. 149 00:16:21,580 --> 00:16:25,780 Right. Um, and they warned that they were going to be heavy handed in their response. 150 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,090 So the question then is, you know, what made all of these people come out despite this threat? 151 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:37,460 And then how were they able to, uh, overcome the security forces to get to, to higher. 152 00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:43,249 So it turns out there's this incredible back story here that Western media mostly missed. 153 00:16:43,250 --> 00:16:46,310 And it's still largely very well, uh, very popular today. 154 00:16:46,670 --> 00:16:54,020 And the protagonists of this story are a group of activists who are energised by this unprecedented revolt that just happened in Tunisia, 155 00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:59,840 um, where the, you know, protesters there unseated, uh, Ben Ali, who had also been in power for 30 years. 156 00:17:00,140 --> 00:17:04,100 And, of course, this was the first successful uprising, what we call the Arab Spring today. 157 00:17:04,670 --> 00:17:11,749 Um, the activists had already in Egypt had a day of protest already planned for what was, police say, January 25th, uh, in Egypt. 158 00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:21,410 And this was a national holiday that Mubarak had instituted back in 2009 to celebrate the service, um, police and maintaining Egypt's security. 159 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:27,560 Um, and activists had since appropriated it to protest the, you know, ruthless police state. 160 00:17:28,190 --> 00:17:34,280 Um, so following Tunisia's success, they were like looking at this day of protest and thought, okay, what if we can make it bigger and bolder? 161 00:17:34,850 --> 00:17:45,169 Um, so this is just, uh, an illustration of a really brilliant mobilisation strategy the activists came up with for drawing out a critical mass, uh, 162 00:17:45,170 --> 00:17:51,170 of protesters onto the streets, um, starting with Egyptians from lower um, 163 00:17:51,170 --> 00:17:56,060 and working classes who don't normally protest but had plenty of reasons to. 164 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:02,720 And so the goal of this strategy was, um, in fact, to help people overcome their fear of the police. 165 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,630 Um, and it was the brainchild of this, uh, wonderful young activists, Muhammad Sami from the April 6th movement. 166 00:18:09,170 --> 00:18:14,240 And it was two pronged. The first involved a ruse to distract police. 167 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:21,230 Um, so they announced 20 protest locations all over Cairo for demonstrators to gather at, 168 00:18:21,770 --> 00:18:27,650 um, uh, you know, and then they promoted this on social media. So the idea was to deploy the police to these locations. 169 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:33,320 And then the second prong involved mobilising a march from a secret 21st location. 170 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:40,640 Um, so they chose this popular poor area called, uh, black with the crude as their starting point of this march. 171 00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:49,190 And so the plan was to mobilise, um, a large march that could quickly snowball down Cairo's, uh, streets into this unstoppable force. 172 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,350 Arriving at Muhammad's stopping Muhammad Square, uh, before the police caught wind of them. 173 00:18:55,700 --> 00:19:04,790 So that's what they did on January 25th, um, on the morning of Mahmoud, in about 250 of his fellow organisers, uh, meet to execute the plan. 174 00:19:05,090 --> 00:19:09,770 Um, and the response is incredible. Uh, far surpasses their, uh, expectations. 175 00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:14,810 And so these are just some of the recollections after the share with me on that day. 176 00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:21,199 Um, there have been, um, describe the shock and euphoria, um, as they poured over the bridge. 177 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,510 Is tiny part of their strategy? Um, it was the first line of their strategy and they had executed it successfully. 178 00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:34,610 It was as if the people were gushing from beneath the ground. We began crying and hugging each other, and we kept shouting into Sorna. 179 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,900 We won! What had we won exactly? Who knew what was coming? 180 00:19:39,050 --> 00:19:44,690 Nobody knew. Um. Mustafa also was very excited when he shared, um, his memory the moment. 181 00:19:45,410 --> 00:19:52,070 Uh, before this, we'd organise a march, and at times would be only 20 or 30 people when there were 500 in our protests. 182 00:19:52,340 --> 00:19:57,080 We were over the moon. Now we couldn't see the beginning of the march from its end. 183 00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:59,120 We were so beside ourselves. 184 00:19:59,570 --> 00:20:07,639 There was this feeling that something major had shifted in the country, and then thought it shares how they reacted when they got to, 185 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,750 um, stuff on the square and found way more protesters there than they had expected. 186 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,950 We were all dazed and like, what are we going to do with all these people? 187 00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:24,770 That's when we started to say to Tahrir Square. So then the activists on the spot quickly sketched this route for their march to the area. 188 00:20:25,340 --> 00:20:30,500 And while there are other veins of protesters pouring into to here from all over Cairo that day, 189 00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:36,740 this is the one that brings in the critical mass that helped facilitate the people's game changing siege of the square. 190 00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:43,670 And so that's why we say, um, or I say that perhaps without it, we might not have had an Egyptian revolution or an Arab Spring. 191 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:53,600 So I shared this story to demonstrate basically why it's reductive to call this movement spontaneous because rather than spontaneous, 192 00:20:53,600 --> 00:21:03,020 this was actually a case of painstaking planning by purposeful actors that was met with the wildly unexpected um, 193 00:21:03,230 --> 00:21:07,730 and the speaks to a second problem with this, um, kind of framing, which is, you know, 194 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:12,110 the activists like Mostafa are talking about previous protests they've organised. 195 00:21:12,110 --> 00:21:20,090 Right? So they're in fact building on a history of, uh, action and practices that they had been developing in the years before. 196 00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:25,320 So calling this uprising spontaneous is problematic because it's just a historical. 197 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,509 Um, and really it glosses over the fact that, um, the movement that, you know, 198 00:21:30,510 --> 00:21:37,350 the uprising was made possible by, uh, young activists who were part of this growing oppositional movement, 199 00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:48,270 uh, in Egypt, that they themselves were actively radicalising through new, um, and youthful forms of, uh, political action, uh, and imagination. 200 00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:53,940 And so, in fact, uh, this movement began ten years earlier, uh, in a moment, 201 00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:59,579 much like today with the, uh, second Palestinian intifada in the year 2000, uh, 202 00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:05,040 which had radicalised and inspired many of them to protest for the first time as students, 203 00:22:05,490 --> 00:22:09,479 uh, in solidarity, they joined the protest on Cairo's streets. 204 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:15,240 And they also organised protests and acts of civil disobedience on their own campuses as students. 205 00:22:15,780 --> 00:22:21,810 Um, and so, along with the uh, anti-Iraq War movement, uh, that followed, uh, 206 00:22:21,870 --> 00:22:26,580 the the intifada served as sort of their gateway into anti-regime dissent. 207 00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:33,149 Uh, and then this movement wave was followed. Um, so this movement wave was around regional struggles. 208 00:22:33,150 --> 00:22:40,170 It was followed by three subsequent waves, uh, one around calls for democratic reform with what was known as the cafe movement. 209 00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:44,580 Um, another around, uh, an explosive, right, uh, labour struggle. 210 00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:53,400 Uh, then a third around police brutality, which was sparked by the police killing of Saeed, the young man, and the city of Alexandria in 2010. 211 00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:59,730 So what we saw was that in the first two movement waves, um, which were led by an older generation, 212 00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:04,890 these activists were being radicalised and socialised into activism for the first time. 213 00:23:05,650 --> 00:23:14,440 And then in the second two waves, it was now this new generation of young activists who were establishing, uh, the movements and leading them, 214 00:23:14,860 --> 00:23:21,579 um, and they were coming up with these new protest strategies and tactics, which included, you know, these kinds of protests, 215 00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:29,319 uh, and popular quarters that we saw, um, on January 25th, um, the aim of which was specifically to bring the ordinary masses, 216 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:35,380 uh, into the struggle which Egypt's old guard, uh, political old, you know, older opposition guard had failed to do. 217 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,780 Um, and so the activists were sort of learning from their the mistakes of their elders, um, 218 00:23:41,410 --> 00:23:50,140 and they were raising the culture of resistance and, uh, and Egypt to new heights as they were building this robust activist network, 219 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,080 uh, this, this decentralised, 220 00:23:53,080 --> 00:24:03,640 horizontal movement structure that now make space for participants like Mahmoud to act autonomously and creatively and just step up as leaders. 221 00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:09,040 Um, and so now this horizontal ism becomes the defining feature of this movement. 222 00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:14,200 Um, this this whole resistance movement. Um, it's important to note that because I'll come back to it later. 223 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,220 But this is a crucial point. 224 00:24:15,610 --> 00:24:23,730 But this brings me, um, to the next point I want to make, which was the reason why, um, the youth were able to conceive, um, 225 00:24:23,770 --> 00:24:33,310 and successfully even execute a strategy like this was because they themselves identified as members of these marginalised, marginalised classes. 226 00:24:33,910 --> 00:24:41,200 Uh, and they were embedded among them in the urban periphery, where they had been experimenting with this, with these tactics. 227 00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:47,830 So Mahmoud, for example, himself had grown up in the popular corners, uh, of Cairo. 228 00:24:48,130 --> 00:24:55,900 He was therefore well versed in the grievances, the spaces, mobility, uh, and vulnerabilities of its residents. 229 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,720 And he knew how to negotiate them, and he knew how to leverage them in his planning to the advantage of January 25th. 230 00:25:02,620 --> 00:25:07,449 And of course, one of those vulnerabilities was the fear people had of police who dominated these neighbourhoods. 231 00:25:07,450 --> 00:25:14,079 Right. They were actually there to erect barriers between citizens and dissidents like Mahmood and his peers, 232 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,590 who might inspire them to express their discontent and rise up. 233 00:25:18,730 --> 00:25:24,310 Um, an activist knew this, and so they were actually trying to test these boundaries in the years before the revolution, 234 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:31,120 trying to find those blind spots as cracks in the dam. Um, and they were doing this not as outsiders, but as insiders to these areas. 235 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:39,550 So this now knowledge and experience is was shaping their, um, agency, um, in this January 25th moment as activists. 236 00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:50,760 Um, and I emphasise his popular class background and the social capital it gave them um, as organisers because the impression the media gave us, um, 237 00:25:50,820 --> 00:25:58,530 early on was that the activists who were behind this revolt were these highly cosmopolitan, English speaking, 238 00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:06,790 tech and internet savvy young people who came from, you know, urban, financially comfortable, middle and upper class families. 239 00:26:06,810 --> 00:26:11,460 They might have been current students or former students at elite schools like the American University of Cairo. 240 00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:17,360 Um, and I think that this time magazine cover I showed earlier is a perfect example of that. 241 00:26:17,370 --> 00:26:22,379 I know several of these people, and they're not from the popular classes. So it was an accurate portrayal. 242 00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:26,640 And most of the activists, in fact, you were behind the revolt, didn't speak English. 243 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:32,430 They didn't go to elite universities, and they certainly were not digital activists, um, operating from behind a screen. 244 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:40,920 These were popular class youth who were organising and putting their bodies on the line in these urban areas where they came from. 245 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:49,920 Um, and so that's why I say, you know, you know, this isn't really a, say, a social media story as it's been portrayed. 246 00:26:49,930 --> 00:26:54,420 Um, that's one part of the story of, of, I would say, how activists are exercising their agency. 247 00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:58,079 Um, and all of this really makes them question this leaderless, uh, 248 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,710 term and wonder if there is maybe a, um, a better term, maybe something like literal. 249 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:09,040 And we can discuss that more as we move along. Okay. 250 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:15,129 So now I want to look at what happens with the activists during the 18 days, beginning with, uh, 251 00:27:15,130 --> 00:27:19,990 a return to this quote by Todd when he says, what are we going to do with all these people? 252 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,600 Um, and I was thinking about this, and I really love this quote because I think it captures the shock. 253 00:27:25,810 --> 00:27:31,480 Um, and, you know, sort of the the dilemma of the activists on this day, right? 254 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:39,129 What this moment, they found themselves on January 21st. So, like with the success of their mass action, something unexpected is happening to them, 255 00:27:39,130 --> 00:27:42,460 which is their status is changing from activists to revolutionaries. 256 00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:45,430 And they're trying to figure out what this means, right, and wrap their heads around it. 257 00:27:46,180 --> 00:27:50,410 So none of them had actually imagined the possibility of revolution. 258 00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:56,200 Um, so when this moment came, um, they found themselves unprepared for this opportunity. 259 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:06,100 Right. And the eradication of political space, um, under Mubarak meant that they didn't have any opportunity to engage in real political life, 260 00:28:06,670 --> 00:28:11,050 um, and develop any, like, serious political acumen beyond protesting. 261 00:28:11,860 --> 00:28:19,030 Um, so now in this moment, they're trying to figure out what role they should play, if any, as leaders in this nascent, uh, revolutionary struggle. 262 00:28:19,570 --> 00:28:25,959 And this brings me to the second reason why I really like this quote. It it reminds me of another quote that a famous revolutionary once asked, 263 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,300 and I want to see who could guess what I'm talking about and what that protest. 264 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:33,310 The question is, is it interactive conversation? 265 00:28:33,790 --> 00:28:37,260 Any guesses? What is to be done? 266 00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:44,220 What is to be done again? This almost sounds like a spin off to me of this question, and I hope we can talk about that more. 267 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:50,210 But basically, it turns out that the activists, the questions activists were engaging um, 268 00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:53,780 with in this moment were really no different from those that occupied, 269 00:28:53,790 --> 00:29:00,030 uh, these celebrated revolutionary strategists from the Marxist tradition like Lenin and Luxemburg. 270 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:06,330 And it's the question of, you know, are the masses of carrot capable of carrying out a revolution on their own? 271 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:13,740 Uh, or do they need leaders to organise them? Um, and of course, Lenin was of the opinion that the masses couldn't do it on their own. 272 00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:20,760 They needed the guidance and leadership of, um, professional revolutionaries who were tied to this, 273 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,530 uh, highly disciplined, centralised, hierarchical, vanguard organisation. 274 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:32,490 Um, and then Luxemburg, on the other hand, saw that this was elitist, and she argued that the masses, 275 00:29:32,490 --> 00:29:36,870 uh, were capable of becoming leaders on their own naturally through their engagement with the struggle. 276 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:45,000 So I'm basically interested in how these ideas, which generally map out onto, um, the ideas of vertical ism and horizontal ism movements, 277 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:51,030 how that played out among, uh, the activists and, uh, shaped their agency during the uprising. 278 00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:57,600 So eventually, as events escalate, the network of youth movements, 279 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:04,379 um activism youth movements that um had together sparked January 25th come to the realisation that they do need to, 280 00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:10,440 in fact, provide some kind of leadership to the square or else this whole thing was going to fall apart. 281 00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:17,280 Um, so about ten days into the uprising, they announced their consolidation as the Revolutionary Youth Coalition. 282 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:25,140 And I'll talk a little bit now about the dynamics, uh, that led to the formation and the challenges they faced afterwards. 283 00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:32,600 Um. So up until the point they announced themselves, um, as the coalition, 284 00:30:33,050 --> 00:30:38,330 the activists were kind of reluctant to step to the forefront of the movement in any way as leaders. 285 00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:44,810 Uh, and instead they were sort of leading behind the scenes and engaging what I like to call, uh, performing leaderless. 286 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:48,250 So there were several reasons for this. 287 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:56,680 Um, the first had to do with this horizontal, decentralised, uh, nature of the movement which now carried over from the previous period. 288 00:30:57,370 --> 00:31:02,380 Um, so remember the, the activist status changed to revolutionaries, but their movement structure didn't. 289 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:11,470 This is an important tension. So just as this horizontal ism had for years empowered them to take initiatives and act autonomously and creatively, 290 00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:16,510 it was now empowering the thousands of Egyptians who had joined the movement to do the same. 291 00:31:17,290 --> 00:31:22,720 And so in doing so, it now started to constrain the activists and how they could show up as leaders in the movement. 292 00:31:23,730 --> 00:31:30,690 So the more the movement grew, the less the revolutionaries felt it was their place to proclaim to be its leaders. 293 00:31:30,690 --> 00:31:32,070 Right? This is now a people's movement. 294 00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:40,530 And in fact, they couldn't claim leadership even if they wanted to, because the movement itself fetishised its popular, leaderless nature. 295 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,860 Um, so what if you turned them down? And it was really seen like the movement's leaderless. 296 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,780 This is what made it legitimate in everyone's eyes, right? 297 00:31:48,810 --> 00:31:53,070 So that was the images, the image that both the activists and the protesters kept promoting. 298 00:31:54,380 --> 00:31:58,870 And then, of course, declaring themselves as the leaders, um, would have made them regime targets. 299 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:05,630 Right. So there was that threat. And then lastly, claiming this kind of leadership was a really big move that like, 300 00:32:05,630 --> 00:32:09,470 nobody was really prepared to make because what does it mean to like, lead a revolution, right. 301 00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:12,830 What kind of responsibility are you committing to shouldering? 302 00:32:13,340 --> 00:32:15,260 So they're kind of wrestling with this tension. 303 00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:22,280 Um, so this was the position of the activists until after, um, an event called the battle of the camel, 304 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,870 which was a violent episode in which, uh, the regime sent thugs, uh, 305 00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:31,280 into the square to try to break in, um, the sit in, um, and thereafter, 306 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:37,249 some members of the opposition formed themselves into a group they called the Council of Wise Men. 307 00:32:37,250 --> 00:32:39,650 Right. Which was really triggering for the young people and women. 308 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:48,380 Um, but essentially they now enter into negotiations, uh, with government officials about how to bring an end to this impasse. 309 00:32:48,980 --> 00:32:50,780 Um, and that's what the activists realised. 310 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:59,300 Um, we had to have some kind of official group that, uh, represented the radical position of the square to prevent it from being, 311 00:32:59,330 --> 00:33:04,340 um, or protect it from being undermined, sold out, and, um, you know, just demobilised. 312 00:33:05,270 --> 00:33:14,720 Um, so they announced the strike on February 6th. The first proclamation was there's no, uh, there's no, uh, negotiations for before the departure. 313 00:33:15,380 --> 00:33:19,910 Um, so they said they would, uh, continue to occupy the square until their demands were met. 314 00:33:21,050 --> 00:33:27,650 Um, and now in this moment, they become sort of the closest thing, uh, to a vanguard in the revolution and in the square. 315 00:33:29,150 --> 00:33:33,800 Um, but then after the crises formation, it became clear to the armed forces, 316 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:39,650 the members themselves and other groups that as sort of an organisational front to the revolution, it was insufficient. 317 00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:48,230 There was still this need, um, to institute, um, a wider consensus among the many opposition forces who were present, 318 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,920 um, on how to move forward through the establishment of, uh, sort of a more representative body. 319 00:33:55,700 --> 00:34:00,439 Um, and this was seen as especially urgent because they were trying to escalate and get Mubarak to step down, 320 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:06,470 and they still didn't have some kind of a body that could, uh, claim power on behalf of the revolution. 321 00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:12,770 So one of the constraints that the RBC ran up against as they were trying to figure out, um, 322 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,420 what to do in this moment was the fact that they lacked political experience, um, and senior rank. 323 00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:26,330 They attempted to overcome this by engaging with the old guard, um, and bringing them into kind of a larger revolutionary coalition. 324 00:34:26,750 --> 00:34:29,900 But there was like these intergenerational tensions that surfaced. 325 00:34:30,620 --> 00:34:35,330 Um, the the old guard in that moment had felt, uh, upstaged by the youth. 326 00:34:35,540 --> 00:34:41,449 Um, and there was this friction that resulted that greatly hindered efforts to produce some kind of, 327 00:34:41,450 --> 00:34:46,970 uh, leadership, um, collective leadership or build a revolutionary organisation in that moment. 328 00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:53,980 Um, and then the other challenge the revolutionaries faced had to do with their commitment to bottom up, uh, 329 00:34:53,990 --> 00:35:02,330 consensus building processes, um, known as participatory democratic practice as their method of collective decision making. 330 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:09,230 So this horizontal ism, this democratic practice proved to be extremely time consuming. 331 00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:12,500 Um, and it didn't match the urgency of the moment that they were in. 332 00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:16,620 Um, especially as the elite were making moves, um, to contain the movement. 333 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,910 Um, this method was just like slowing them down and undermining them. 334 00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:27,509 So in the end, the revolutionaries revolutionaries were basically outmanoeuvred by staff who took power before 335 00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:32,309 they could coordinate and seize it themselves in the form of some kind of a popularly backed, 336 00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:35,220 uh, civilian led transitional government or something else. 337 00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:43,400 Um, and then these dynamics carry over to the transition period and become even more complicated, uh, 338 00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:49,680 because Mubarak removed, uh, the young revolutionaries now lose that common, um, cause that unified them. 339 00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:56,790 Uh, and they now have to deal with a scarf, uh, being in power. And the Muslim Brotherhood basically throwing them under the bus. 340 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:04,709 Um, so they're they're all organised, basically. They were sort of put in this position where they had to build the plane as they were flying it. 341 00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:09,750 Right, like figure out how to carry out a revolution. Um, and they just couldn't ever get ahead of their opponents. 342 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,719 Um, so there were these moments in the revolution that felt like history was repeating 343 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:20,980 itself and giving revolutionaries a second chance to make up for their mistakes. 344 00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:28,240 Uh, in the 18 day uprising. And one of those moments was the so-called Second Revolution, which coincided with, 345 00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:32,470 um, an event called the Mohamed Mahmoud Street clashes in November of 2011. 346 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:39,670 Uh, but what happens is that the activists fall into the same dynamics they did, um, earlier in 2011. 347 00:36:39,970 --> 00:36:46,690 They basically struggle to escape them. Uh, and I saw a lot of this for myself because I was, uh, doing my field work at the time. 348 00:36:48,190 --> 00:36:51,370 Uh, so this pressure to perform later, Lessness comes up again. 349 00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:57,890 And the perfect example of that, I think, is the sign, um, that showed up in Tahrir. 350 00:36:57,910 --> 00:37:02,860 Um, so it articulates rules for the protesters to follow in the square. 351 00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:07,600 Um, but it's signed by, you know, the Egyptian people, um, when in fact, 352 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,140 clearly there's a group behind it and they're unwilling to put their name on it. 353 00:37:12,930 --> 00:37:18,030 Um, the second was this, uh, kind of leadership archipelago phenomena, 354 00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:24,060 where the movement felt like a bunch of islands with different leadership groups emerging on them. 355 00:37:24,690 --> 00:37:28,620 Um, and so these groups were often unaware of each other's activities, 356 00:37:28,620 --> 00:37:32,970 and they were even acting at cross-purposes as they each tried to figure out 357 00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:37,800 how to capitalise on the political opening and seize power for the movement. 358 00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:42,330 Uh, there were a lot of, uh, endless meetings. 359 00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:48,180 Um, and I got this term from the title of a book called freedom is an Endless Meeting, which I think is a brilliant title. 360 00:37:48,690 --> 00:37:55,080 Um, but these meetings basically took forever because, again, the aim was to reach consensus about the way forward. 361 00:37:56,100 --> 00:38:00,600 Um, but again, this method was, uh, it didn't match the urgency of the moment. 362 00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:04,440 Um, and then again, we saw the limits of usefulness. 363 00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:10,290 So there was a, uh, the activist wanted to form some sort of civilian authority to speak on behalf of the square, 364 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,610 uh, and take back ownership of the transition period from the military. 365 00:38:14,940 --> 00:38:19,800 But they couldn't say, well, you know, we're the transitional government because nobody would, uh, take them seriously. 366 00:38:20,250 --> 00:38:23,260 They tried to get some senior opposition figures, um, on board. 367 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,430 Um, and several of them were interested in the activist proposed initiative, 368 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:29,550 but then later they backed, backed out, and the whole thing sort of fell apart. 369 00:38:30,690 --> 00:38:35,610 Um, so the culmination of all of this is that another opportunity to seize power is lost. 370 00:38:36,030 --> 00:38:41,569 And by doing in terms of time. Um, 5 to 6. 371 00:38:41,570 --> 00:38:48,590 Okay. So the activists really needed to be able to pivot into more structure and vision in order to cohere and sustain the movement. 372 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,290 But they couldn't due to these various constraints. 373 00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:58,130 Um, and this just became more and more difficult as time passed and the movement became more decentralised and fractured. 374 00:38:59,930 --> 00:39:08,270 Um. Um, so as one of the main forces of the revolution, the ROIC is embedded in these horizontal dynamics. 375 00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:14,940 They're contributing to them and reflecting them as they're trying to navigate them and overcome them. 376 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,140 It's an interesting dynamic. Um, but eventually they disband. 377 00:39:18,140 --> 00:39:28,070 And, um, in 2012, after the election of Mohammed Morsi, uh, the way they saw it, uh, you know, uh, like with the end of the transition, 378 00:39:28,070 --> 00:39:35,480 it was time for them to think about new organisational forms that could serve them in the, uh, next stage of the struggle. 379 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:42,409 Um, but the truth is, they also disbanded, uh, because by this point, they had been struggling, um, 380 00:39:42,410 --> 00:39:48,320 a lot as a coalition, um, due to the kind of internal and external challenges that were caused by these dynamics. 381 00:39:50,570 --> 00:39:56,690 Um, and I want to talk briefly now about how the, uh, you know, about the camera revolution and how the movement's horizontal is, 382 00:39:56,690 --> 00:40:04,100 um, played into that, uh, looking specifically at the tumult of movement which erupted against Morsi in 2013. 383 00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:13,460 Uh, it's basically this decentralised petition campaign demanding that Morsi resigns and it's embraced widely and quickly by Egyptians. 384 00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:20,599 Um, and what's notable about this movement is that it erupted leadership vacuum, uh, 385 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:26,810 and it became very clear that there were unsavoury actors behind it, the military, the police and remnants of the old regime. 386 00:40:28,060 --> 00:40:32,200 Um, so this is when we start to see the most serious drawbacks of this horizontal ism, 387 00:40:32,650 --> 00:40:40,240 which is that if a revolution has two horizontal and two open, um, then anyone can claim to speak on its behalf. 388 00:40:41,380 --> 00:40:48,700 Uh, so that's what happened. The deep state appropriated the language and tactics of the revolution to carry out the counter-revolution. 389 00:40:49,690 --> 00:40:54,489 And so what the model shows us is that this agenda, less, uh, leaderless structure, 390 00:40:54,490 --> 00:40:58,570 less diffuse movement model, can be very vulnerable to being co-opted. 391 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:07,580 Okay, so where does this leave us all today? Um, I want to share this hopeful reflection from activist Ola Shaba. 392 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,290 I think revolution is still achievable. I don't think of it as a step back. 393 00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:17,150 I think of it as a process that we've always realised it will be ups and downs. 394 00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:22,460 I think we had to go through this. Let's see. We're hoping it doesn't bring us down. 395 00:41:23,730 --> 00:41:29,370 Um, uh, I really love this quote because I think it speaks to this idea of revolution as an iterative process. 396 00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:31,080 Um, and as a learning experience. 397 00:41:31,890 --> 00:41:38,490 Um, it's a reminder to not, you know, fixate on the outcome and calling this a failed revolution, but to stay focussed on the potential. 398 00:41:39,450 --> 00:41:42,330 Um, and it reminds me of another quote from our friend Lenin. 399 00:41:44,270 --> 00:41:49,110 Um, he says, uh, there are moments of history where the desperate struggle of the masses, 400 00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:53,880 even for a hopeless cause, is essential for the further schooling of these masses. 401 00:41:54,240 --> 00:42:00,180 And the struggle training the next generation. So, jumping off of Lenin's remarks, um, 402 00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:08,820 I like to think of the Egyptian revolution as a masterclass in the challenges of revolutionary organising and the, uh, 21st century. 403 00:42:09,780 --> 00:42:15,930 And my hope is that my work, uh, will help us better understand the complexity of this challenge, um, 404 00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:23,820 and stretch the ideas of classical thinkers like, uh, you know, Lenin, as we learn from this experience and theorise new ways forward. 405 00:42:24,930 --> 00:42:29,490 Um, so in that spirit, I'll just share some of the questions that I'm grappling with for you to consider. 406 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,460 Um, and I have a lot, but these are some of the general ones. 407 00:42:32,970 --> 00:42:38,400 Um, you know, once the revolution permanently defeated, or when we think about defeating movement in general, do we think of them as defeats, 408 00:42:38,850 --> 00:42:45,840 um, that are permanent or is this simply a stage, uh, in a longer process of revolutionary action and transformation? 409 00:42:47,410 --> 00:42:53,050 How might this experiment lead us to more effective modes of revolutionary leadership and organisation? 410 00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:58,330 Are the choices between vertical ism and horizontal ism? 411 00:42:59,860 --> 00:43:06,520 Or is the lesson that contemporary revolutionary movements have to be imagined and organised and led completely differently? 412 00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:14,620 And I think that these are really important questions to think about in light of the wave of mass and mass movements that erupted, 413 00:43:14,620 --> 00:43:17,680 um, around the globe following the revolution in 2011, in Egypt. 414 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:24,790 A lot of these movements have, in some ways, shared characteristics or even intentionally inherited characteristics from the Egyptian revolution. 415 00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:29,020 And one of those is its, uh, loose horizontal organisational form. 416 00:43:29,950 --> 00:43:37,570 Uh, and just as we saw that kind of become a liability for the Egyptian revolution, the same thing has happened with some of these movements. 417 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,790 Um, and so this brings me back full circle to the moment we're in today with Rasa. 418 00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:50,900 Um, I think as horrific as the tragedy has been, it's also, um, given us this really unprecedented, hopeful opening. 419 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:57,800 Uh, it's ignited massive protests across the Middle East again, you know, kind of invoking the memory of the Arab Spring. 420 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:03,310 Uh, in Cairo, we saw Egyptians bravely take to the streets despite the security risk. 421 00:44:03,940 --> 00:44:08,050 Um, at one point, they marched to the rear. I think it was the first time since 2013. 422 00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:15,040 Uh, and they chanted bread, freedom and an Arab Palestine, which was a spin off of that famous 2011 slogan. 423 00:44:15,460 --> 00:44:22,690 And I think a clear reflection of the central place that Palestine still holds and their revolutionary imagination. 424 00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:29,680 Uh, and of course, the solidarity protests globally have been some of the largest and most sustained we've seen yet. 425 00:44:31,050 --> 00:44:39,780 Um, and indeed, I think the most inspiring, um, uh, expression of solidarity was the recent student uprising led by youth in the belly of U.S. empire. 426 00:44:40,170 --> 00:44:47,819 Um, which to me is a remarkable twist that mirrors the Radicalising effect the second Palestinian intifada had on Egypt's would be, 427 00:44:47,820 --> 00:44:55,700 uh, youth revolutionary leaders. So as that is kind of radicalising people across the global north and south, um, as it's exploded, 428 00:44:55,740 --> 00:45:02,010 exposing the duplicity of the West and sort of the hollowness of the liberal, uh, rules based order. 429 00:45:02,820 --> 00:45:07,889 And it seems like we're at this tipping point where more and more people are seeing their stake in 430 00:45:07,890 --> 00:45:12,870 Palestine's Palestine's liberation and the role they must play in it if they also want to get free. 431 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:20,010 Um, and so the question now is, what's the way forward beyond, uh, through the crisis, beyond just protests and demanding a cease fire? 432 00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:28,290 Like, if the aspiration is a free Palestine, then what is a new world, uh, in which this aspiration is realised actually look like? 433 00:45:28,290 --> 00:45:35,940 And how do we get there? Um, you know, what's the vehicle for sustaining global popular commitment for the long haul? 434 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:46,050 And how do we build, uh, expand an expansive, enduring international movement that can take on global, uh, capital and empire, right. 435 00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:54,390 Um, yeah. So, and just to conclude, on a personal note, I like to share that, you know, the Egyptian revolution meant a lot to me personally. 436 00:45:54,900 --> 00:46:02,190 Um, it was really transformational for me to be a part of it. Um, and I learned a lot about myself and my own in, uh, agency, 437 00:46:02,190 --> 00:46:07,740 sort of through my engagement with the struggle and and the activists, um, they had this expression, 438 00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:11,850 um, the Egyptian revolutionaries, they used to say it often during those years of upheaval, 439 00:46:11,850 --> 00:46:14,970 which was a sort, almost a matter of the revolution continues. 440 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:23,100 Um, sadly, nobody says it anymore. Um, but I'm really hopeful that, you know, by learning from this experience, we can collectively, 441 00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:28,890 somehow, uh, breathe new life with them into this expression again and make it meaningful again soon. 442 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:38,990 Thank you all so much. Thank you very much. 443 00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:43,380 You know, of course, the questions. Um, I have a couple of questions. 444 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:51,600 I oh, that's just to begin with. One is one thing you didn't talk about was violence. 445 00:46:51,900 --> 00:47:01,450 Okay. Um, you mentioned that, you know, at the beginning, the organisational tactics of protesters decisive in the revolution. 446 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:12,000 Um, and I don't disagree. And I don't disagree about your, you know, analysis of the and the streams of protests that led into January 25th. 447 00:47:13,050 --> 00:47:19,370 But. I don't think they have ever taken Tottenham Square without. 448 00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:23,600 A quarter of police stations being burned down in the country. Mhm. 449 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:31,070 Um, I mean, I mean, it's true that the kind of public face of the revolution was non-violent and it was unarmed. 450 00:47:31,340 --> 00:47:35,090 Sure. Um, it was always unarmed, in unarmed protest. 451 00:47:35,450 --> 00:47:41,150 Um, but I don't think that that early phase would have actually succeeded. 452 00:47:41,330 --> 00:47:44,989 I mean, if it weren't for the security forces being worn out. 453 00:47:44,990 --> 00:47:53,420 I mean, I was in the time I was living in one part about Dean and I had an office and another part about being and, um, the night, 454 00:47:53,450 --> 00:48:00,859 which is not very far from Tahrir Square and, um, the night of the 26th and the 27th of 25th, 455 00:48:00,860 --> 00:48:05,420 actually, after that, after that first day of the revolution was over. 456 00:48:06,050 --> 00:48:11,120 Um, I mean, Upton Square was used as a kind of staging point for the security forces. 457 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:19,129 Um, and the numbers of trucks that were going through there was just unbelievably like they were shifting forces all over the country, you know, 458 00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:24,200 so desperately trying to have their forces on the 25th for the 2026 and 27, 459 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,279 2022, because I continued stupidly thinking, well, this seems like a big thing, 460 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,509 but surely, you know, it can't really be a revolution, even though people are saying, 461 00:48:32,510 --> 00:48:35,540 well, it's I was actually still going to my office and, you know, 462 00:48:35,540 --> 00:48:41,840 sort of the other part of our team was very close to me that I've been, um, I said, you know, I'd walk home at night and then the trucks will be here. 463 00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:46,370 I'm like, yeah. Like the whole street was convoys of trucks carrying, you know, 464 00:48:46,580 --> 00:48:54,110 potential security forces all over the place because because actually the attacks continued throughout the 26 into the 17th until the 28th, 465 00:48:54,110 --> 00:48:56,810 when they finally really did take down your square for good. 466 00:48:57,500 --> 00:49:05,780 Um, and so violence is one question, and I think violence is kind of problematic for a revolution that was in its own, 467 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,110 um, in its own view, a non-violent protest. 468 00:49:09,110 --> 00:49:14,330 And it certainly was unarmed, but I still don't think they would have gotten as far as they did with the violence. 469 00:49:14,810 --> 00:49:20,870 That's how your question is about kind of revolution. Um, that sort of suggests the restoration of the old regime. 470 00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:29,270 And I'm wondering if it isn't actually more accurate to think of the Sisi regime as a revolutionary outcome. 471 00:49:29,660 --> 00:49:33,650 Um, not certainly not the one that the protesters were working for. 472 00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:39,710 Um, but I think that the, um, you know, kind of the, the new I mean, 473 00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:46,730 there are new elites that are kind of coming into, you know, controlling the state that weren't there before. 474 00:49:46,820 --> 00:49:52,130 Yeah. I don't think that there is a straight line from them and behind the scenes of kind of upgraded authoritarianism, 475 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:57,980 um, whereas the regime is pretty totalitarian, actually. 476 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:03,709 Yeah. Um, I think that also leads to the question of the protesters there now. 477 00:50:03,710 --> 00:50:12,860 But I just want to ask you about whether you think that there was a continuous link between the old regime and the CCP. 478 00:50:14,330 --> 00:50:20,030 Yeah. Thank you. I think the point about, yeah, violence is important. 479 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,870 Um, I what the burning list stations remind me. 480 00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:28,009 Did that happen on the 28th or the 25th? Because what happened between the 25th and the 20. 481 00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:35,059 Yeah. Yeah. And then by, you know, by the by the morning, the 29th, when I took my three year old son out for a walk through downtown Cairo, 482 00:50:35,060 --> 00:50:38,300 um, carrying him on my shoulders, you know, the whole place was littered with burnt out. 483 00:50:38,780 --> 00:50:47,630 Yeah. But, you know, Tahrir Square was kind of the symbolic focus of the revolution, but the attack on police stations was taking place. 484 00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:54,290 Yeah, yeah, off stage. But it was very fierce. And it was I think it was largely reactive because of the overreaction of police. 485 00:50:54,710 --> 00:51:00,830 People were attacking more. Yeah. I don't think that that was part of the organisation of the revolution. 486 00:51:00,860 --> 00:51:05,089 Yeah, it wasn't, but it was crucial to the revolution. Successful, definitely. 487 00:51:05,090 --> 00:51:08,989 Yeah. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't um, you know, argue against that. 488 00:51:08,990 --> 00:51:12,950 I, I agree, I think what I was trying to focus on were the dynamics that led into like what 489 00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:16,430 was happening was that on January 21st and how that initial spark happened. 490 00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:22,219 But, um, I don't think even the activists themselves would deny the importance of some of that violence, 491 00:51:22,220 --> 00:51:25,820 which was, like you said, more, uh, reaction to the violence of the police. 492 00:51:25,820 --> 00:51:30,080 I think that violence started the night of the January 21st. There was actually a clearing of the square. 493 00:51:30,650 --> 00:51:33,200 Um, and I would say it was maybe the 26th. 494 00:51:33,380 --> 00:51:40,910 I mean, there was the, the it started to take on, you know, a sort of a revolutionary dimension or, you know, 495 00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:48,200 situation sort of emerged, I think, when the active when when they started to hear on the 25th, people chant a shabby, despotic ism. 496 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,540 Right? That wasn't that was something that was imported from Tunisia. 497 00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:54,890 And it wasn't part of their own chance that the activists had, uh, selected for that day. 498 00:51:55,130 --> 00:51:59,720 They were very intentional about not wanting to say anything about the regime or Mubarak. 499 00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:03,650 I think the extent of their charm had to do with, uh, you know, 500 00:52:03,650 --> 00:52:09,080 that they had planned for the protest and that was around socioeconomic issues like education, 501 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:15,559 rising food prices and some stuff around the security state they called for, like the resignation of Adly, you know, things like that. 502 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,790 But they didn't go so far as asking for the regime to step down. So that actually came from the. 503 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:27,330 Um, and the activism told sells told me it was maybe the 26 and 27, especially with the killing and the waste that they saw, 504 00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:34,290 because the place that's always sort of holes and the historical imagination around, uh, where they felt now it was a revolutionary situation. 505 00:52:34,290 --> 00:52:36,899 So that violence was definitely, I think, a turning point. 506 00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:41,530 And then feeling like, because now there was blood that was shed, that this was a revolutionary. 507 00:52:41,530 --> 00:52:47,340 But they were now revolutionaries. So definitely that was a huge part of their kind of conscious, uh, you know, 508 00:52:47,790 --> 00:52:52,890 that violence did play a role in their consciousness formation as revolutionaries in that moment. 509 00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:57,419 And then, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think counter-revolution was the term to use early on. 510 00:52:57,420 --> 00:53:03,090 And we were so unsure of like what was happening. Um, it felt like this was now the counter-revolution fighting back. 511 00:53:03,090 --> 00:53:08,549 But, you know, ten years on or like we're like 13, let's say 20, 24. 512 00:53:08,550 --> 00:53:12,510 Yeah. Several years on, uh, this is maybe a different this isn't, you know, 513 00:53:12,780 --> 00:53:19,019 the same sort of forces that were in power back in 2011, um, at the eruption of the movement. 514 00:53:19,020 --> 00:53:26,190 So that maybe needs its own, like, kind of analysis. But you could, I think, argue that this was an outcome of the revolution that wasn't expected. 515 00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:29,520 I don't know if you want to go so far as to say a revolutionary outcome, but for thinking about, 516 00:53:29,940 --> 00:53:33,390 you know, outcomes as aligned with the original goals of the revolutionaries. 517 00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:38,250 But yeah, but but definitely an outcome. 518 00:53:38,250 --> 00:53:45,120 Um, for sure. Yeah. Those are great comments. Thank you. Please join me in thanking Richard for fantastic.