1 00:00:00,350 --> 00:00:08,490 And then of across college looks good and courageous. Northern Europeans watch the US Marine Reserve here at Oxford, 2 00:00:08,490 --> 00:00:14,880 which is where we are now in the fantastic young Rembrandt exhibition, which you are co curator. 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:20,610 I should say we're here in the central, all of the exhibition and we're wearing facemasks. 4 00:00:20,610 --> 00:00:27,060 So we'd have to speak louder so you can see what we're saying. Welcome to some course full of shorts. 5 00:00:27,060 --> 00:00:32,820 Thank you for the amazing exhibition. How did the idea for it come? 6 00:00:32,820 --> 00:00:38,170 How did it emerge? How did it develop? Well, the exhibition is a long time in the making. 7 00:00:38,170 --> 00:00:44,040 In fact, the initial idea of the exhibition started over 10 years ago. 8 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:52,530 So before I joined the Ashmolean Museum and it started between conversations between the then director of the National Museum, 9 00:00:52,530 --> 00:01:00,680 Professor Christopher Brown, and the curator of museum the Lock and Hall in Leiden, Leiden, which is Rembrandt's birthplace, 10 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:06,980 hands the idea to focus on Rembrandt's lie, then periods on its very beginnings of this career. 11 00:01:06,980 --> 00:01:15,780 Twenty nineteen was the international year of Rembrandt, which was celebrated worldwide with many exhibitions, 12 00:01:15,780 --> 00:01:23,610 publications, conferences, workshops and 2019 mark 350 years since Rembrandt's death. 13 00:01:23,610 --> 00:01:30,870 So that was although over, focussing on a very different part of his career, of focussing on the very early part rather than his death. 14 00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:39,480 We thought that would be a good occasion to stage the Rembrandt exhibition in Oxford and in Leiden, who are also Twin Cities and University Cities. 15 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:44,970 So it was a very appropriate partnership. Can you walk us through the exhibition? 16 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:49,200 What were the driving themes? And there's many guiding themes. 17 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:55,200 And what we didn't want to do in the in the exhibition is do a chronological survey 18 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,220 because that would be really boring if we just would have arranged all the paintings, 19 00:01:59,220 --> 00:02:03,150 all the prints, all the drawings in chronological order and showed them. 20 00:02:03,150 --> 00:02:12,150 So we were really trying to provide a glimpse into Rembrandt's workshop, sort of looking over his shoulder how his working Maharis methods. 21 00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:16,730 What are his interests? Well, Horace techniques were his themes. 22 00:02:16,730 --> 00:02:21,210 And so we sort of tried to theme the exhibition in different sections. 23 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:27,260 And so at the very beginning and we've just walk through the entrance door and we walk through the first gallery, 24 00:02:27,260 --> 00:02:32,580 you start off with an introduction more, which shows three self portraits by Rembrandt. 25 00:02:32,580 --> 00:02:39,930 And we deliberately did this because the first thing we wanted our officers to see was to meet the young Rembrandt. 26 00:02:39,930 --> 00:02:46,920 And so we showed three self portraits when he's 22 years old, both in drawing, painting and in print. 27 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:50,490 And we've done that very deliberately because we really ones that we didn't want 28 00:02:50,490 --> 00:02:55,230 to feature Rembrandt as a painter or as a print maker or as a draughtsman. 29 00:02:55,230 --> 00:03:03,270 We wanted to show him as a holistic artist who's working in all these media at the same time on the same projects. 30 00:03:03,270 --> 00:03:05,930 So we wanted to show a cross-section. 31 00:03:05,930 --> 00:03:12,660 And so from done from their own words, from that introduction, more will first meet Rembrandt's family in Leiden. 32 00:03:12,660 --> 00:03:20,430 And so Rembrandt portrayed many, many depictions of his father, of his mother. 33 00:03:20,430 --> 00:03:27,750 Other people we can't identify saw like the finger, his brothers or sisters, his uncles, his arms. 34 00:03:27,750 --> 00:03:35,080 And once we've introduced the family in Leiden and in fact, we've designed that section for the very nice Dutch marble floors. 35 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:41,820 So if you come to the exhibition, look at the floor and you'll see this nice marble pattern. 36 00:03:41,820 --> 00:03:47,670 Once we've done that, we're going to explore Rembrandt Springs, making techniques, etching technique. 37 00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:50,490 And we're going to do that through his very earliest prints, 38 00:03:50,490 --> 00:03:55,740 but also some of the mistakes he made, the botched friends, the unfinished prints he made. 39 00:03:55,740 --> 00:04:02,490 We even have original copper plates in the exhibition which are lying alongside the prints taken from them. 40 00:04:02,490 --> 00:04:07,290 We have a video which shows how the etching technique was done. 41 00:04:07,290 --> 00:04:13,950 If we then look around the first gallery, we also have Rembrandts very first paintings. 42 00:04:13,950 --> 00:04:19,110 And if we look at these paintings, we can already tell that Rembrandt was not this born genius. 43 00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:24,720 Like he really wasn't as accomplished yet at the beginning of his career as we'd like to think. 44 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,250 Rembrandt as the great artist, as naturally gifted master. 45 00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:38,070 No, he really had to practise. He had to experiment. He had to fail here to improve through sheer determination and experimentation. 46 00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:43,400 Will he then gradually and quite rapidly transform into the master real? 47 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,790 No. So in the first gallery, we really sort of see the very new paintings, which aren't quite daring. 48 00:04:48,790 --> 00:04:55,590 And so you'll see there's still a lack of perspective, very garish colour payload. 49 00:04:55,590 --> 00:04:59,590 No, not to me. Francis, if you look at the fingers, they just look like soft. 50 00:04:59,590 --> 00:05:06,370 Because if you look at the ears, they look like telephone receivers, it's all very caricature old. 51 00:05:06,370 --> 00:05:12,550 And so then when we enter the second room, so the central hall in which we are now sitting, 52 00:05:12,550 --> 00:05:16,960 we're going to explore a Rembrandt in line and his collaboration's. 53 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:25,030 And so the very first part of the second room explores the partnerships between Rembrandt and Levens. 54 00:05:25,030 --> 00:05:33,880 And so when we look at the French. Because it was once a friendship like they're only there's only a few months difference in age between them. 55 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:39,380 They went to the same school. They lived in the same neighbourhood. They had the same painter teacher. 56 00:05:39,380 --> 00:05:46,570 So they definitely knew each other, were very good friends, grew up together. Levens was more naturally gifted. 57 00:05:46,570 --> 00:05:53,830 He was Milke Mauck, premature than Rembrandt. And I think it's that difference in Italians, 58 00:05:53,830 --> 00:06:02,890 that sort of difference in levels that really spurred Rembrandt on to become bathrooms or sort of creative competition between them. 59 00:06:02,890 --> 00:06:14,470 And you can really tell from looking at the exhibition as we explore a few themes that they both painted or true or made prints off at the same time. 60 00:06:14,470 --> 00:06:18,130 So, for instance, we have a section on the raising of Lazarus. 61 00:06:18,130 --> 00:06:27,100 We have a section on Samson and Delilah, sorry, gradualists see them, although they start off quite similarly, especially in their painting technique. 62 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:31,350 We see gradually we see them sort of becoming very different. 63 00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:36,310 And Rembrandt becoming the Rembrandt we all know and admire today. 64 00:06:36,310 --> 00:06:45,490 And then in the middle of the exhibition, we have probably the most pivotal work of the show, which is the repentant Judas. 65 00:06:45,490 --> 00:06:51,220 Rembrandt painted this and 16 29 Enlow, them 16 29 is, of course, 66 00:06:51,220 --> 00:06:58,000 bang in the middle of our exhibition with charts of the years between 16, 24 and 60, 34. 67 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:03,130 So 16, 29 is the moment when Rembrandt was painting the repentant Judas. 68 00:07:03,130 --> 00:07:07,690 And when he received a visit in a studio of Constantine Holmes, 69 00:07:07,690 --> 00:07:13,960 who was the art dealer and the secretary to the prince of Orange of the Dutch Republic at that time. 70 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:20,620 And so when Constantine half and saw this painting and this young artist in live and then he calls them still beardless. 71 00:07:20,620 --> 00:07:25,570 So they must have still been quite young when he sees this painting is completely blown away. 72 00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:30,220 You know, he he's very familiar with the work of the great masters in Amsterdam. 73 00:07:30,220 --> 00:07:35,950 But seeing this young life, them artist paints to repent and chooses is a real transformation. 74 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:43,180 And so he goes back to The Hague and tells the court how amazing this Rembrandt from life them is. 75 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:47,710 And from that moment onwards, we see Rembrandt receiving court commissions. 76 00:07:47,710 --> 00:07:55,630 And so that's the second section of this gallery where we see portraits being made from people, Lifford, from courtiers in The Hague. 77 00:07:55,630 --> 00:08:06,130 Also the first paintings entering the principal or interest collection. There's also prints related to a Passion of Christ. 78 00:08:06,130 --> 00:08:13,120 And then in one final section of the second room, we have what we call my naughty corner. 79 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,410 And that's where we explore Rembrandts everyday scenes and salters parlour games. 80 00:08:18,410 --> 00:08:22,900 There's presence. For instance, there's Cezannes urinating. 81 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:25,390 There's presence defaecating. 82 00:08:25,390 --> 00:08:36,430 There's nudes who don't look very sort of natural, very realistic, who don't really convey to the to the traditional sense of beauty. 83 00:08:36,430 --> 00:08:40,420 So you can see they have sagging breasts. They have soft ballis. 84 00:08:40,420 --> 00:08:49,690 They have some clothes on their thighs. And Rembrandt in the month, like he really wants to depict those women as they appeared in front of him. 85 00:08:49,690 --> 00:08:55,150 And these prints and drawings and paintings were very, very popular in Rembrandt's time. 86 00:08:55,150 --> 00:08:57,790 And I think we can all see why, because, of course, 87 00:08:57,790 --> 00:09:06,790 it's very attractive to see a real woman rather than a sort of idealised imagination of the artist. 88 00:09:06,790 --> 00:09:11,410 And so then in the final room of the exhibition, exploring food, two themes. 89 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:16,000 One is Rembrandt's workshop, because even already from 16 28. 90 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:25,120 So when Rembrandt was only 22 years old, he's already attracting students and pupils in his workshop and which is quite early. 91 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:31,810 And of course, it was very helpful for Rembrandt have assistance helping him, preparing his canvases. 92 00:09:31,810 --> 00:09:36,700 But it was also commercially very viable because they would pay tuition fees to him. 93 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:46,600 So it was a sort of income for the young Rembrandt. And so we explore several of his pupils and how they work in the style of the Masters. 94 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:51,640 And often these paintings were done be sold from Rembrandt's workshop as a real Rembrandt, 95 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:59,770 which now causes art historians across the world huge headaches, because even if there is an original signature by Rembrandt on the painting. 96 00:09:59,770 --> 00:10:04,840 We still can't be sure if it's actually by Rembrandt or by one of his pupils. 97 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:11,320 And then in the last section, which covers the 16 foot who want 64 to. 98 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:20,170 We explore how Rembrandt finally moved storms to them, which is the big city with the big Porti International Harbour. 99 00:10:20,170 --> 00:10:23,140 And in fact, he moves in the harbour area. 100 00:10:23,140 --> 00:10:29,980 And so it's a very multicultural area where a Rembrandt moves, too, with ships coming in from the East India Company. 101 00:10:29,980 --> 00:10:39,460 And so we see how Rembrandt starts to collect all these luxury imports could soon see all these fine fabrics from India, 102 00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:48,690 China, no see Japanese swords. You see these sorts of peer, you see harpoons, shoals. 103 00:10:48,690 --> 00:10:56,050 And so it's very interesting to see how Rembrandt then uses all these attributes as studio props and dresses and so forth. 104 00:10:56,050 --> 00:11:00,100 And when the Rembrandt arrived in Amsterdam, he wasn't a citizens. 105 00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:05,560 Yeah, he was in citizen the arts of the city. So he wasn't allowed to sell his own paintings. 106 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:12,580 So what he had to do is had to work for an art dealer there for three years until he obtained his citizenship. 107 00:11:12,580 --> 00:11:18,220 And once he did, he had that he could join the painter skilled and start selling his own paintings. 108 00:11:18,220 --> 00:11:23,200 And he finally achieved that at sixteen thirty four. And that's the end of our exhibition, 109 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:32,500 because then the early career of this young artist has concluded and is ready for the mature phase of his career. 110 00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:38,410 It gives us a very detailed look as a period in his life with so much happened. 111 00:11:38,410 --> 00:11:43,310 Can it put the young Rembrandt in the context of the scholarship of this time? 112 00:11:43,310 --> 00:11:48,670 So the young Rembrandt as a sort of understudied area of Rembrandt scholarship, 113 00:11:48,670 --> 00:11:54,340 because if we go to the rights museum or if you go to any exhibition by Rembrandt, 114 00:11:54,340 --> 00:12:01,750 whether it's about his Prudence's, Roys or his paintings, they always focus on the mature or the period of Rembrandt's life, 115 00:12:01,750 --> 00:12:09,640 because that's when we really see that typical Rembrandt style, sort of a fairly dramatic biblical scenes, the historical scenes, 116 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:19,120 the impressive portraits where you see the broad brush strokes, the thick impasto lying on the canvas with the young Rembrandt. 117 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:25,180 He really wants to go to the periods before he became famous, before he became successful. 118 00:12:25,180 --> 00:12:30,880 And because these paintings aren't as accomplished here, especially in the very first year, 119 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:37,810 and the same goes for the prints, his drawings are always amazing, like Rembrandt is the most incredible draughtsman. 120 00:12:37,810 --> 00:12:41,500 But you really see him struggling in the paintings and in the prints. 121 00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:49,020 And so for me, as an art historian, that's a lot more interesting to sort of see where the artist came from that he did. 122 00:12:49,020 --> 00:12:55,600 And he wasn't just born as this amazing genius and made the most incredible paintings from the beginning of his career. 123 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,470 No, you really see him practising. You see him experimenting. 124 00:12:59,470 --> 00:13:07,390 You see him failing, trying again and then eventually becoming much better off through his own persistence. 125 00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:12,340 Now, he never finished formal education. Was that unusual for the time? 126 00:13:12,340 --> 00:13:20,740 Yeah. Who wanted to become an artist? Who didn't necessarily there wasn't an academy, for instance, in the Dutch Republic. 127 00:13:20,740 --> 00:13:28,300 So what you would do is you would enrol with a fellow artist or an established artist, do apprenticeships. 128 00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:37,060 And we know, for instance, that Rembrandt and at Loans in University, which was the first University of the Dutch Republic founded in 50 and 75. 129 00:13:37,060 --> 00:13:41,590 So not that long before Rembrandt enrolled. 130 00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:50,410 He was 14 at the time, which sounds really young, but there is no proof that a Rembrandt actually attended an elector's or finished a degree. 131 00:13:50,410 --> 00:14:00,400 And so it's more likely that he registered at the university to get a tax break and perhaps for the fear previa that allowed it. 132 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,660 So what Rembrandt did, as soon as he knew that he wants to become an artist, 133 00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:14,680 he he did an apprenticeship with a local artist in Leiden, so-called Yakob translation and proof no one might know his name nowadays. 134 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:19,940 But he was one of Rembrandt's teachers and Rembrandt stayed there for three years. 135 00:14:19,940 --> 00:14:23,620 We can't really see great influence of funds. 136 00:14:23,620 --> 00:14:26,260 Marman Very Rembrandts later work. 137 00:14:26,260 --> 00:14:35,050 And so we presume that Rembrandt mainly learns at technical aspects, for instance, grinding of pigments for carrying of compasses, 138 00:14:35,050 --> 00:14:42,350 maybe some sketching, maybe painting the backgrounds of the painting of the master and all the small efforts. 139 00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:49,300 All was after three years from Rome to Amsterdam for a very short period of six months to go and study. 140 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:59,610 One of the great painters at that time in Amsterdam called Peter Lassman, and again, not very well known anymore today, but back then the. 141 00:14:59,610 --> 00:15:03,160 First, and both leaves and reference went to study with him. 142 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:10,710 And so we have a painting and a drawing in the exhibition to show how last Monday influenced Rembrandt Brooklyn's. 143 00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:17,220 So I give a sense of the exhibition, these Rembrandt as a solitary genius. 144 00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:25,950 That's my perception of it. Was that really the case? Yeah, I think if you look at the exhibition, you see how many collaborations, 145 00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:33,210 how many partnerships, how many creative collaborations that Rembrandt engaged in. 146 00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:39,680 And yes, there is that perception of Rembrandt being a somewhat grumpy, arrogant, solitary artist. 147 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:45,800 But I think especially in this early phase of his career, his first 10 years, because he wasn't that great yet. 148 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,030 And he admitted that he knew this himself. He had to work with other people. 149 00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:58,320 So we've already touched upon his creative, competitive friendship with Levens. 150 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,830 Of course, we have all the pupils who are running around in his workshop. 151 00:16:01,830 --> 00:16:09,000 And we know up to six pupils, six named pupils that were working in Rembrandt's workshop. 152 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:18,330 And they are in a period and there must have been many more that whose name have now been forgotten or that we don't have evidence anymore from. 153 00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:26,910 We also know that Rembrandt collaborated with another printmaker. And so, of course, we see tens and tens of beautiful small etchings. 154 00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:32,640 And this exhibition by Rembrandt were very drawing, like they're very sketchy, very rich and all. 155 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:40,770 They really show Rembrandt's unique style. There's also few prints in the exhibition which are reproductions after his paintings. 156 00:16:40,770 --> 00:16:46,140 And these were usually made in collaboration with another printmaker from Lowe that we called him. 157 00:16:46,140 --> 00:16:49,710 Essentially, some truly young talent leads young Kulis from Leeds. 158 00:16:49,710 --> 00:16:55,540 And so we know that when the Rembrandt wanted to make a proper prints or proper reproductive prints after his, 159 00:16:55,540 --> 00:17:01,430 so he went to young needs for him to make the prints for. 160 00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:05,970 But one more question which which intrigues me, which is that we're here. 161 00:17:05,970 --> 00:17:11,730 Part of the University of Oxford. In a must show, yourself and the others are involved in tutoring. 162 00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:16,140 Do you think Rembrandt was a good tutor? I think so. 163 00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:21,810 Although, again, he is sort of known as a sort of grumpy, quite move the artist. 164 00:17:21,810 --> 00:17:28,530 He did attract many pupils. And in fact, it's appropriate to ask this question because there is a one painting in 165 00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:33,720 particular in the exhibition which really illustrates what a great pupil tutor. 166 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:40,050 What a great teacher Rembrandt was. And so one of Rembrandt's most famous pupils, perhaps not at the time, 167 00:17:40,050 --> 00:17:45,270 but who would eventually become a very famous painter in his own right is shut it down. 168 00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:49,640 And if you go to a national gallery, you can see lots of his paintings, for instance. 169 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:59,430 And so we have a selection of very early paintings by shirttail. In this exhibition, including a portraits by though after a Rembrandt self-portrait, 170 00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:04,980 which makes Rembrandt look looks much prettier than he does in his own self portraits. 171 00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:13,260 But there's one painting in particular from the Getty in Los Angeles, which shows the young Prince Rupert with his tutor. 172 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:17,850 And in fact, the painting itself is a collaboration between Rembrandt and Dalle. 173 00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:22,690 And Rembrandt painted the tutor and now painted the pupil, Prince Rupert. 174 00:18:22,690 --> 00:18:29,490 And it's such a touching collaboration and you immediately see the difference in style Rembrandt. 175 00:18:29,490 --> 00:18:38,520 You know, he depicts this old tutor with this friend called handsome, typical old lived face, while the older student has very smooth, 176 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:44,940 fine skin, which is very typical, fertile, and which would become his trademarks and his trademark. 177 00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:47,480 He has to come. 178 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:57,140 And I have thank you so much for this this interview and for holding it in this sort of magnificent setting where in 2020 the exhibition has opened, 179 00:18:57,140 --> 00:19:03,950 it's closed, its reopening continues to be opened until last November 1st of November. 180 00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:07,104 Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you, family.