1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:05,430 Right. So I'm going to take you two very different worlds theory on the grassroots level. 2 00:00:05,430 --> 00:00:12,120 And I'm in the report and some data that I collected in 2007 on what the communities have to say, 3 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:18,000 six communities in Sierra Leone on this combattants, integration and reconciliation. 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:24,720 My Toppenish interest when I went to see all these poises scenes and reconciliation after massive violence. 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:32,580 So really, what I wanted to do was to look at the micro determinants of social integration of the former combatants in a post-conflict 6 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:40,330 country that shows us by case study the integration of former army of rebels into civilian life in Sierra Leone. 7 00:00:40,330 --> 00:00:45,590 I say a bit more about why is that? And that's such a natural cause. 8 00:00:45,590 --> 00:00:51,180 My work down into the research question we've read rather long. 9 00:00:51,180 --> 00:01:03,810 In what way is notions of reconciliation, forgiveness, justice, revenge and punishment intersect with the integration process, taxes and other rights? 10 00:01:03,810 --> 00:01:13,580 So why did I choose Sierra Leone? And what is comment from these first two points of crime? 11 00:01:13,580 --> 00:01:19,620 I was looking for a country with a relatively long civil war and a war that has 12 00:01:19,620 --> 00:01:25,770 been conducted with considerable brutality against the civilian population. 13 00:01:25,770 --> 00:01:33,420 And my my thinking behind that was to sort of have a post-conflict phase where you have a sharp 14 00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:39,270 difference between those who have committed violence and those who have endured violence for a long time. 15 00:01:39,270 --> 00:01:48,240 So that's basically why I chose Sierra Leone, also a country that's not very good. 16 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:53,250 But I won't have the time now to go in to sort of the case as such. 17 00:01:53,250 --> 00:01:58,230 I'll say something small about the root causes of the war. 18 00:01:58,230 --> 00:02:05,490 Very shortly, if you boil it down, my understanding of who wants to Leone is that there was an economic, 19 00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:10,920 social and political marginalisation of the majority of the population who basically 20 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:16,590 to transition once were exclusionary governance structures at the community level. 21 00:02:16,590 --> 00:02:25,170 So conditional authority chiefs, elders suppressing and abusing their power within the majority of young people. 22 00:02:25,170 --> 00:02:35,820 And then secondly, you had a failing and eventually stringent punishments to say what William Rehaan on called the privatisation of the state. 23 00:02:35,820 --> 00:02:45,360 That just wasn't there before. So the dominant actors in driving violence, confrontation with the system, with the social system, 24 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:55,050 the political system where you were people were below 30, 35, and they were the ones that started the war. 25 00:02:55,050 --> 00:03:08,610 And it was started from the east of the country with an insurgency of already like the Revolutionary United Front rebels backed by Charles Taylor. 26 00:03:08,610 --> 00:03:13,690 Some of Charles Taylor's fighters. Right. 27 00:03:13,690 --> 00:03:20,130 You know, let's be shocked, if not the kinds of questions to that. 28 00:03:20,130 --> 00:03:21,630 So two years ago, 29 00:03:21,630 --> 00:03:31,680 I went into the field and I showed the quality of the framework of methods and the structure of interviews and focus group discussions, 30 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:40,590 which I conducted in six different places to sort of groups with differences within the ethnic communities in Sierra Leone. 31 00:03:40,590 --> 00:03:46,960 But also the war sort of spread slowly over the years to these different slides. 32 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:54,180 And I wanted to know whether the length of time that you cut spending worked meant anything for or. 33 00:03:54,180 --> 00:04:03,280 For peacebuilding in total. I interviewed one hundred ninety respondents in a non representative sample. 34 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,060 So mobile in need of of tackling. 35 00:04:07,060 --> 00:04:13,860 And I responded. But still, I think gave me quite a good overview. 36 00:04:13,860 --> 00:04:19,580 And who did I target? Mostly I talked with Exit from Bamako. 37 00:04:19,580 --> 00:04:28,230 Are you up the rebels? And then on the other hand, you mentioned that have not been affiliated with any of the fighting forces. 38 00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:34,500 As for the roundup, that that sounds like talk with Whitehall and leaders. 39 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:39,630 Those are police chiefs, teachers, politicians. 40 00:04:39,630 --> 00:04:47,550 So for people who need the community but also have somewhat of an overview of community life. 41 00:04:47,550 --> 00:04:52,310 Right. What I'm going to do now, quickly, is to work in the precepts, 42 00:04:52,310 --> 00:05:00,110 go through my data first to comment on the achievement of peaceful coexistence in Sierra Leone, which has been. 43 00:05:00,110 --> 00:05:06,260 Regarded as a special piece of this building, then I asked the question, 44 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:11,250 which factories are responsible for this integration success at the micro level? 45 00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:20,890 And the second question will be, what are the characteristics of the state of integration in Sierra Leone and problematise this peaceful coexistence? 46 00:05:20,890 --> 00:05:24,830 This is it. And then I'll end up with our conclusions. 47 00:05:24,830 --> 00:05:33,800 So if you talk with people in Sierra Leone overall, you get a very positive view of peace of a country that's been through a harsh war. 48 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:39,620 But people actually read the positive view of coexistence. 49 00:05:39,620 --> 00:05:43,640 So I'm one of the focus group discussions. 50 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:53,570 I had people there told me. Well, there's no armed with U.S. combat and some have their families here or living in the farm. 51 00:05:53,570 --> 00:05:57,020 We're working hand in hand. Sometimes they're quarrels. 52 00:05:57,020 --> 00:06:03,080 But with the help of a youth, they're put in place to live in peace because without outside help. 53 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,430 We do it ourselves. We dream to share ideas. 54 00:06:07,430 --> 00:06:12,410 I can go to their house and eat with them and share ideas with them and so on. 55 00:06:12,410 --> 00:06:18,020 So very positive. And even I talked to some others. 56 00:06:18,020 --> 00:06:23,430 They said, well, you know, the U.S. is reintegrated. Lost. The are you a flavour? 57 00:06:23,430 --> 00:06:28,010 People can actually try to integrate, integrated. They're part of the community. 58 00:06:28,010 --> 00:06:33,290 And one person, the chairman of youth organisation, he told me, you know, the festival is this. 59 00:06:33,290 --> 00:06:36,320 If you ask me about a group of people who are sitting outside, 60 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:41,630 I won't be able to tell the difference between those two attacks from bars and those who are not. 61 00:06:41,630 --> 00:06:49,910 So obviously, my question was, given the Sierra Leone history, which are the factors that are responsible for this integration success? 62 00:06:49,910 --> 00:06:54,350 And what are the characteristics of this of the state? 63 00:06:54,350 --> 00:07:01,220 So question one, what are the factors responsible? And the main main point I want to make here. 64 00:07:01,220 --> 00:07:12,290 What I call the price we pay for peace. Namely, that what's really striking is how people were longing and desperate for peace and the sort of in the 65 00:07:12,290 --> 00:07:18,620 final year of the war and how they really were desperately longing for the resumption of normality. 66 00:07:18,620 --> 00:07:25,700 So she told me as long as covered with blood has stopped. 67 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:33,050 The sound of the barrel. We are happy for that. When the barrel was captured, there was nothing to do but to save our lives. 68 00:07:33,050 --> 00:07:42,160 So integration, as I see it, is a Trade-Off for peace. And that's the threshold in the broad question of northern Israel will make a point. 69 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:48,200 One thing I'm speaking generally, if someone has committed an atrocity at any time, 70 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:53,010 when you see that person at any time, you will remember what they have done. 71 00:07:53,010 --> 00:07:58,850 And any times that I know it does not feel good, but we're doing that for peace. 72 00:07:58,850 --> 00:08:04,370 So my interpretation is that reintegration rests on a rational basis rather than an emotional lives. 73 00:08:04,370 --> 00:08:12,790 And fighters were accepted into community to Abels with integration and transition to sort of a long sought peace. 74 00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:18,260 So integration is price people would place for peace. 75 00:08:18,260 --> 00:08:23,960 Now, this transition was also supported by what I call components of peace. 76 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,340 I'm not going to go into them, but just list them. 77 00:08:28,340 --> 00:08:33,410 If there is the absence of ethnic cleavages which make the integration process 78 00:08:33,410 --> 00:08:38,510 a very individualised process rather than sort of to organise people there. 79 00:08:38,510 --> 00:08:44,540 There is a long standing tradition of social ties and family integration. 80 00:08:44,540 --> 00:08:50,360 People are very religious in Cerillo, so they look up short to do justice in the end. 81 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:57,170 And then, of course, there were a host of different institutional interventions on the local and on the international level. 82 00:08:57,170 --> 00:09:02,410 Which party could still be. Over the last seven years. 83 00:09:02,410 --> 00:09:08,710 Right. So we have a state of peaceful coexistence. 84 00:09:08,710 --> 00:09:13,690 But what does it really look like? Right. What is there going to look at? 85 00:09:13,690 --> 00:09:18,160 Conditions for peace. Then I'm going to look at the emotions people presented to me, 86 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:25,300 and then I'll look at interactions between ex combatants and noncombat economic numbers. 87 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:34,600 So what do I mean with conditions for peace? They're basically three conditions that in the country presently. 88 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,370 That would qualify peace. 89 00:09:36,370 --> 00:09:46,180 First is what I call spatial discrimination, where fighters cannot settle in those communities where they actually committed large scale atrocities. 90 00:09:46,180 --> 00:09:49,990 So you have a lot of fighters from the east who were born in east, living in the north. 91 00:09:49,990 --> 00:10:00,720 Now, a lot of fighters from the north now living east. And it's really this sort of trade off places that people can maybe settle in a community. 92 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:06,820 And everybody knows there are a. But the cancer community, what they've done in fashion. 93 00:10:06,820 --> 00:10:12,230 So this limits the freedom of movement, a source of residence for ex combatants. 94 00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:20,350 Secondly, their daily circumstances. I was in Sierra Leone during the time, as did presidential and parliamentary elections. 95 00:10:20,350 --> 00:10:24,290 Nobody really knew what was going to happen. Everybody was very tense. 96 00:10:24,290 --> 00:10:30,280 It was likely and if it didn't happen, that the opposition party actually overpumping topple the government. 97 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:35,350 Nobody knew if the incumbent government would go along with that. Would the military intervene? 98 00:10:35,350 --> 00:10:41,110 It was a very sort of you was a very tense time. 99 00:10:41,110 --> 00:10:46,150 So during that time of people showed up at police stations pouring gasoline, 100 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:50,640 telling the police constable, you know, going over those people work with who are you? 101 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,520 They're having trouble. They're likely to be the ones who are causing the trouble. 102 00:10:54,520 --> 00:11:01,120 People were pointing at them on the street saying, like, you know, you you say they like we were walking. 103 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:10,450 Right. We've seen you if there's trouble. And this is sort of the cycles of tension here in those two. 104 00:11:10,450 --> 00:11:15,940 You always see it when there's tension. That's the balance and singled out. 105 00:11:15,940 --> 00:11:18,760 And lastly, and sort of not very surprisingly, obviously, 106 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:24,190 their individual experiences and you see a very clear pattern of those who have been victimised 107 00:11:24,190 --> 00:11:31,660 more and more brutally during the war of displaying a larger rejection to integration. 108 00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:38,080 So this Martinus woman in the told me if I had the power to ask them out, I would ask them out. 109 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:43,400 They have done that. They cross all the suffering here, killed my husband and my brother. 110 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:48,490 We're living together now. There is no other thinking. But really, I do not want their talk. 111 00:11:48,490 --> 00:11:56,210 I do not want to live with them. People who had to confess that they didn't they weren't that this was my work. 112 00:11:56,210 --> 00:12:00,940 I actually had a much more. Yeah, much more. 113 00:12:00,940 --> 00:12:14,230 Much more open to oppression. So those are the conditions for peace from individual feelings now about sort of coming from the victimisation question. 114 00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:21,520 My next question was how how do you feel about these people? What's what's the emotional state of community members? 115 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:27,930 And at the same time, I was trying to explore local means of reconciliation and the term I want to introduce here. 116 00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:37,830 But the concept I want to use here is that a cool heart, warm heart, which is sort of this year alone in way of putting reconciliation. 117 00:12:37,830 --> 00:12:45,730 Hobart to win the hearts, which is considered the centre of the feelings, but also thoughts and intentions. 118 00:12:45,730 --> 00:12:51,750 So when that is cool, it's not angry or resentful in any way wishes would be warm. 119 00:12:51,750 --> 00:13:01,150 And it's really a personal condition that needs to be able to have proper relationships in the community with somebody else. 120 00:13:01,150 --> 00:13:06,670 Now, to achieve before or after an incident has made your heart very warm. 121 00:13:06,670 --> 00:13:13,510 It requires what is called forgetting and forgetting is a process by which you contain memories, 122 00:13:13,510 --> 00:13:21,460 by which you sort of suck the emotions out of memories. And youth chairman of the Miami Village. 123 00:13:21,460 --> 00:13:32,650 Explain it to me saying is very difficult to forget because the signs of war are all around as long as remembering is not backed up with violence. 124 00:13:32,650 --> 00:13:40,210 People forget step by step. Forgetting is when even if they think of more war, there are no emotions. 125 00:13:40,210 --> 00:13:45,310 So remembering these Cirilli in context has a very emotional connotation and it 126 00:13:45,310 --> 00:13:51,520 returns a person to the state of the sea where they were the one part was created. 127 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:56,500 And I really went through that in my interviews with people screaming, shouting, crying. 128 00:13:56,500 --> 00:14:02,160 It really it really gets them very upset when they return from the war. 129 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:08,300 So how you. She's forgetting. Well, sort of the two major ingredients are of call. 130 00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:17,890 These are materials. And while the politics obviously from from the rubble, from those big farm, it's here. 131 00:14:17,890 --> 00:14:21,390 It's this was a bit of a hard, isn't it? Let's move on. 132 00:14:21,390 --> 00:14:31,140 That lets you build a new life, which will take you away from the stage where it will calm you down to. 133 00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:36,350 The problem is still around right now is that it has been a big block. 134 00:14:36,350 --> 00:14:45,420 Our absence of a home from the side of the fires and the handing out of compensation has been basically non-existent. 135 00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:52,860 And even the economics for the construction development isn't really going at a very quick pace. 136 00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:57,960 So maybe you still harbour a warm heart. And if you ask these people about integration, 137 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:07,200 they will actually reject the integration which calls for punishment that's put together for answers that are collected in two parts of the country. 138 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:13,050 One woman, very young lady, said, When I see them, my mind goes back to what those guys are. 139 00:15:13,050 --> 00:15:25,820 You have quite literally at an early stage. Now that you can see right now, other women now other people are actually even my family. 140 00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:33,840 When I said I love them. I don't ever say good bye to myself. And then so I develop a warm heart when I see them. 141 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:44,070 They have extraordinary profits. You burn down my house because I do not have the power to revenge and suppressing my anger and not happy with them. 142 00:15:44,070 --> 00:15:48,750 Another woman told me, I'm not happily living together with them. 143 00:15:48,750 --> 00:15:56,040 I no longer want to stay with them. Let them put them all into a tight place where I never put eyes on them again. 144 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,090 And the last was the most vocal. She said I was the first. 145 00:16:00,090 --> 00:16:06,210 They were punished in the same way that I'm suffering and should be punished as their punishment. 146 00:16:06,210 --> 00:16:13,830 So a lot of emotions going around these communities and these suppressed, 147 00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:20,520 sort of suppressed anger and dissatisfaction really surfaces in a very systematic 148 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:25,380 discrimination of the banks and the economic as well as in the social sphere. 149 00:16:25,380 --> 00:16:34,590 So this goes to the point is marriage even is handed down to the children of the banks. 150 00:16:34,590 --> 00:16:44,490 Now, the consequences are very real. That means a lot of ex combatants are even more than the average poor person in Sierra Leone. 151 00:16:44,490 --> 00:16:52,770 But what I find most very worried is that they're very open and very vulnerable to abuse by political elites who draw 152 00:16:52,770 --> 00:17:03,270 them in as either Uphoff thugs in in their conflicts with other parties or as a regular security of party militias. 153 00:17:03,270 --> 00:17:14,260 And obviously, also the crime rate is both high amongst both those criminal. 154 00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:20,700 Ah. Ah. A lot of remorse and that's that. 155 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:30,540 So in 2007, I left a field started with the conclusion that there was peaceful coexistence in Sierra Leone. 156 00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:35,910 On the surface, it was based on the trade off between integration and peace. 157 00:17:35,910 --> 00:17:45,010 That was my understanding. And some components of peace. But that below the surface, integration is really incomplete and peace and very in schedule. 158 00:17:45,010 --> 00:17:55,560 A lot of people were harbouring negative emotions. And there was discrimination against and against Hamas. 159 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:05,730 I just returned from Sierra Leone last week and mean some of the things I've been seeing there are really painting a very good picture. 160 00:18:05,730 --> 00:18:13,140 There are increased living costs. I mean, food and fuel prices have almost doubled in the last two years. 161 00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:18,370 Obviously, comfortable income, unemployment, underemployment is unchanged. 162 00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:23,910 High corruption is rampant in the governments. 163 00:18:23,910 --> 00:18:30,460 So much so that a lot of donors have been pouring out their money. The system looks like millennialism is still working. 164 00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:32,790 So it's not merit based. 165 00:18:32,790 --> 00:18:43,140 Whether it's got a job for which networks or in and more worryingly, the crime rate has gone up significantly and violent crime. 166 00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:49,210 So armed robberies are crimes is going up. Political violence has been going up. 167 00:18:49,210 --> 00:18:57,240 We've seen that six weeks ago. Clashes on the streets of Freetown. And it's mainly violence between the two major parties. 168 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:08,280 And I think in dealing with this violence, there is a. Partiality of the police force and the degree to me on this one, governor. 169 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,480 So since meeting my conclusions, I have. 170 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,500 Yes. Maybe three of them want to change you, Grace. 171 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:23,280 So I see immigration as a very long term process. It's not a project and it's handled as a project for me. 172 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:32,280 She always delivers. So integration really requires a long term monitoring and process and a repeated and repeated 173 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:40,080 and very flexible interventions to go into communities through different stages of integration. 174 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:45,870 I would say at least a decade after a war, this has ended. 175 00:19:45,870 --> 00:19:51,610 Also integration, I see as a continuously negotiated process within communities. 176 00:19:51,610 --> 00:20:00,360 And I'm one of the things I've been thinking about is to interpret this kind of discrimination that's going on in the community level. 177 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:11,040 And what I've come up so far is that I see discrimination as sort of a form of subtle punishment and some form of social justice within the community, 178 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:18,630 within a society that is totally overwhelmed by the request that the government has put forth in the international community, 179 00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:29,200 has put forth people different. And so these discriminate discriminatory acts are sort of pathway's venson feelings. 180 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:36,460 On the other side, if you look at the reaction of former come back and skip towards this is discrimination, 181 00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:40,570 they're actually accepting a lot of the quiet things out of that. 182 00:20:40,570 --> 00:20:46,430 And so I've interpreted that as subtle acts of repentance and the. 183 00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:56,240 Towards reconciliation. My conclusion is that we need to be really careful when we look at the surface of things and consider Sierra 184 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:02,620 Leone as a peace building success because the surface hides a lot of tensions and potential for violence. 185 00:21:02,620 --> 00:21:08,970 We need to understand the grievances that are under the surface, need to look at local parts of reconciliation. 186 00:21:08,970 --> 00:21:15,230 Understand such concepts as Koolhaas. And then effectively design interventions. 187 00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:24,990 And in the case of Sierra Leone, it has a lot to do with me past where apologies are giving, where the past is confronted with. 188 00:21:24,990 --> 00:21:36,050 People can hear what they think about the past. But we also need material assistance, not only for the reasons that Paul and I could review, 189 00:21:36,050 --> 00:21:46,120 but also because it's fixed within the cultural framework of how people think about peace, building up how people principle that Kohlhaas you want. 190 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:54,110 And lastly, we can look at stability and reduce violence, in my understanding, the peace in Sierra Leone. 191 00:21:54,110 --> 00:22:00,110 It's found it very, very much on a rejection of the past. People have very bad memories of the war. 192 00:22:00,110 --> 00:22:03,420 But these memories are very transient. You have a very, very young. 193 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:10,460 Societies who are within a generation that turnover and the forgetting of history is going with this. 194 00:22:10,460 --> 00:22:15,440 So the current situation shows a resurgence of violence in the society. 195 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:23,930 And it's very was very, very worrying that recruitment of violence, gangs, political violence is along. 196 00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:32,210 Old man lines, which actually suggests that there is you can see demobilisation from the war. 197 00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:37,760 Lastly, the post-conflict phase is always filled from the population with very high 198 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:43,400 expectations of change and progress to address not only what the war has destroyed, 199 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:51,820 but also why the war started. So the grievances from before the war and those root causes are still within Sierra Leonean society. 200 00:22:51,820 --> 00:22:53,990 They haven't been addressed right now. 201 00:22:53,990 --> 00:23:02,120 So what you see right now is really growing integration and patience, not only on the side of the X.com battle, but on both sides of the population. 202 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:06,930 Laughs And I'm sorry. And that's not so positive note. 203 00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:10,080 And thank you for.