1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,459 Thank you very much. And thank you, Liz, for for inviting me. 2 00:00:05,460 --> 00:00:07,740 And it's it's great to be back in Oxford. 3 00:00:10,260 --> 00:00:21,569 So let me dive straight into my to my issues, which are really that the the the Russian invasion of Ukraine has changed the world in many ways, 4 00:00:21,570 --> 00:00:29,969 very few of them for the better, as some massive secondary impacts are unfolding around the world, 5 00:00:29,970 --> 00:00:36,240 many of which we are only just beginning to get our arms around. 6 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:44,160 We haven't yet fully grasp what they mean, but it's also intensified a whole lot of things which were already there, 7 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:49,410 but perhaps not quite as apparent as in focus as they might be. 8 00:00:50,580 --> 00:00:52,830 And what I'm going to focus on is, is, 9 00:00:52,830 --> 00:01:07,020 is the the world food crisis and and use that a little bit as a lens into some of the issues that Ben Freeman has has just raised and also 10 00:01:07,170 --> 00:01:18,390 touched very slightly upon some of the a couple of the issues that that Dr. Robyn Williams raised earlier on in that extraordinary introduction. 11 00:01:20,340 --> 00:01:27,090 So last June the UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres cited figures of 276 million 12 00:01:27,090 --> 00:01:33,270 people worldwide who he called were food insecure and he warned of global famine, 13 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,560 multiple famines, he said, around the world. 14 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:45,120 And his solution was to that in that particular presentation at the UN was to stabilise global food markets. 15 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:52,349 The figure of the food insecure is still has risen in the last year. 16 00:01:52,350 --> 00:01:56,030 It's now about 345 million according to the UN. 17 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Those are the people who essentially cannot obtain the the essential food items for for for a healthy life. 18 00:02:05,850 --> 00:02:10,709 Now, one of the reasons for this, of course, as we all know, with the spike in food prices, 19 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:19,290 a new food supply bottlenecks because Russia's invasion of Ukraine disrupted food supplies not only from Ukraine, 20 00:02:19,290 --> 00:02:23,850 but also from southern Russia and the UN's World Food Program, 21 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:33,630 before the invasion was already facing a 44% increase in costs because food prices were already going up and fuel prices were going up. 22 00:02:34,950 --> 00:02:39,509 In response to this Guiterrez with the Turkish President, 23 00:02:39,510 --> 00:02:49,290 Recep Erdogan launched what they called the Black Sea Grain Initiative to enable grain ships to sail safely out of Ukrainian harvest. 24 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:54,530 There needed to be not only demining and escorts and so on, 25 00:02:54,530 --> 00:03:02,280 but as well as an agreement from both sides in the war and also from southern Russian ports. 26 00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:10,230 He called it the Black Sea Grain Initiative, and he said it was the greatest achievement of his time as UN Secretary-General. 27 00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:16,229 It was an achievement, but it's not going to solve the world food crisis. 28 00:03:16,230 --> 00:03:22,170 In fact, it's hardly going to make a dent in it. That situation is a lot more complicated. 29 00:03:22,890 --> 00:03:29,820 Let me just make a couple of of of definitional points and then and then I'll play what I'm going to say. 30 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:39,299 The first is it's important to distinguish between food insecurity, chronic hunger, inability of people to obtain enough food and famines, 31 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:50,580 which are those fortunately rare, exceptional episodes of mass starvation, which are also episodes invariably of societal collapse. 32 00:03:52,770 --> 00:03:58,770 And there are various definitions which we could go into, but I won't tell you with those now, 33 00:03:58,770 --> 00:04:08,430 in the spirit of a procession of, of, of threefold approaches, there are three component parts to famine and food security. 34 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,219 And that's how I'm going to frame my remarks. The first first is food availability, 35 00:04:14,220 --> 00:04:22,500 which is what policymakers invariably focus upon food availability and supply through through logistical bottlenecks. 36 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:31,829 The second is, is what my former professor here, who was here, Amartya Sen, called called food entitlement, the ability of people, 37 00:04:31,830 --> 00:04:41,910 especially the poor and marginalised, to obtain enough food through that the fruits of their own labour or welfare handouts or whatever. 38 00:04:42,780 --> 00:04:46,040 And the third is what I call starvation crimes. 39 00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:54,120 And the the core definition here is the war crime of starvation as defined in the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, 40 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:59,850 which is the deprivation of objects indispensable to survival for a civilian population. 41 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:06,390 And of course, war and objects. And this starvation in this legal sense is not just food. 42 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:13,560 It is objects indispensable to survival, which include water, medical care, shelter. 43 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,470 They could include electricity, communications, maternal care for children. 44 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,600 We don't know exactly how far this concept goes. 45 00:05:21,630 --> 00:05:31,530 It has not yet been tested in court, but there is. It's an issue of of increasing legal academic scholarship in the last few years. 46 00:05:32,370 --> 00:05:41,249 One of the interesting things about the the Rome Statute definition is that under pressure from the United States and the Greek and the U.K. as well, 47 00:05:41,250 --> 00:05:48,780 the maritime powers, sanctions and blockades were not included in the prohibition. 48 00:05:49,410 --> 00:05:52,770 And that's a point about which we might which we might return to. 49 00:05:55,110 --> 00:05:58,680 So food availability is very quickly dealt with. 50 00:05:59,190 --> 00:06:08,490 Scholars of famine have shown time and time over the decades that a food availability decline is neither necessary nor sufficient for famine. 51 00:06:09,300 --> 00:06:14,470 But commentators and policymakers have a reflex, a rudimentary error. 52 00:06:14,490 --> 00:06:18,650 They shout famine whenever there is a disruption. Yes, you can. 53 00:06:18,660 --> 00:06:24,930 It creates hardship. A food supply disruption, a drought, an interruption to supplies does create hardship. 54 00:06:24,930 --> 00:06:31,430 But it is a political decision where and on whom that hardship will fall and it doesn't have to fall. 55 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:43,140 So the disruption in the Black Sea grain supply, some 20% of the world's internationally traded grain was a major disruption to world wheat supply. 56 00:06:43,260 --> 00:06:48,360 Whether or not it caused acute food insecurity and famine, that was a political decision. 57 00:06:49,050 --> 00:06:55,470 And it's interesting that the best indicator of food availability is food prices. 58 00:06:55,590 --> 00:07:01,380 And staple food prices around the world have been rising over the last three and a half years. 59 00:07:01,890 --> 00:07:13,770 And shortly after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, they hit a level of 171% above the standard from earlier, from about ten, 15 years ago. 60 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:18,420 But it's interesting and they've since dropped back. The things like the Russia, 61 00:07:18,630 --> 00:07:26,520 like the Black Sea Grain Initiative and the availability of wheat harvests in the southern hemisphere pushed that level down. 62 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,090 But it's notable that even with those with the current spike, 63 00:07:33,090 --> 00:07:42,450 about 130% of what it was 10 to 15 years ago, the spike in food prices is still foodstuffs. 64 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:48,210 Foodstuffs, basic foodstuffs today are still cheaper than almost any time in the 20th century. 65 00:07:50,220 --> 00:07:55,049 So this isn't to say that the Ukraine war is irrelevant to the world hunger question. 66 00:07:55,050 --> 00:07:59,340 Quite the contrary. The links, however, are rather more complicated. 67 00:08:00,210 --> 00:08:08,640 So the second part, which I will expand upon a bit more, is food entitlement, the ability of poor people to buy food. 68 00:08:08,970 --> 00:08:13,830 And with economic crises rippling around the world already happening with the COVID and 69 00:08:13,830 --> 00:08:18,990 the COVID lockdowns and the disruptions in global supply chains and so on due to COVID. 70 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:27,360 Unemployment is up. Wages are down. And that's a direct product of how economies are organised. 71 00:08:27,990 --> 00:08:37,559 And what we are seeing is, is, as I'm sure everyone is familiar with the globalisation and security driven deep globalisation, 72 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:43,139 which is accelerating the problems of food entitlements around the world, 73 00:08:43,140 --> 00:08:50,970 accelerating the problems of unemployment, of precarious employment, of, of, of access to sufficient food. 74 00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:58,620 So there are many reasons why we might want to pursue globalisation was not an unalloyed good 75 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:09,450 but to do to globalise in such a way as to build what are selectively war economies is I think, 76 00:09:09,450 --> 00:09:23,219 the worst possible reason. Now the term war economy was used during the first and Second World Wars to denote the the the redesign of a 77 00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:32,100 market or capitalistic economy under central control in order to provide for the enormous economic costs of war. 78 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,049 And that invariably, in the first part of the 20th century, 79 00:09:37,050 --> 00:09:42,660 involved major increases in taxation, state direction of essential activities and rationing. 80 00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:53,790 Now, what we've seen in war economies in Western nations over the last 20 something years with the global war on terror, 81 00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:59,790 the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere, is a different kind of war economy. 82 00:09:59,850 --> 00:10:02,310 And a war economy in which there are burdens, 83 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:13,110 but the burdens are not allocated by taxation or ration or in the central direction of, of, of, of how market economies work. 84 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:22,890 The in fact, taxes are being reduced. In fact, the very opposite of rationing is being pursued. 85 00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:30,509 And the way in which the the the the burden is being allocated is almost entirely 86 00:10:30,510 --> 00:10:35,880 through monetary policy and most recently through interest rate rate hikes. 87 00:10:36,450 --> 00:10:45,209 And one of the most striking things about this is that while central banks back in the aftermath of World War Two, 88 00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:50,490 in the era of Keynesianism, was specifically designed not only to control monetary policy, 89 00:10:50,490 --> 00:11:00,299 but in order to prevent exactly the sorts of crises that were generated by austerity and mass unemployment in the interwar period, 90 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:06,300 which were recognised as a major factor in World War Two. 91 00:11:07,530 --> 00:11:14,490 And indeed the Federal Reserve in the United States has expanded in its terms of reference, 92 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:18,510 actually includes reference to the point that has been forgotten. 93 00:11:18,690 --> 00:11:29,880 It is entirely now managed through through interest rates and through the bond market and stock market management. 94 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:34,410 And that shifts the but it shifts the burden domestically. 95 00:11:35,310 --> 00:11:45,060 And whenever we hear a policymaker, an economist, celebrating the fact that wages have been kept down because that keeps down inflation, 96 00:11:45,060 --> 00:11:51,240 anyone who's familiar with basic principles of food economy knows that means poor people don't have enough to eat. 97 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:56,580 And is that to be celebrated? I suspect not. 98 00:11:56,670 --> 00:12:04,920 And of course, internationally, what that means when as interest rates go up, all those countries in across the global south, 99 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:13,140 which that have borrowed in dollars, are facing increasingly unsustainable debt and greater austerity. 100 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:20,280 Now, this is happening in the context of of of an emerging geostrategic rivalry which was already in 101 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:27,780 place before the Russia the Russia Ukraine war erupted before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. 102 00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:37,290 Sort of put the spark to this. And those countries led by China in the Global East, including many in the Middle East, 103 00:12:37,290 --> 00:12:43,140 they don't have the exorbitant privilege of having their own currency as the global reserve currency. 104 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:51,330 So they don't have the privilege of being able to manage their monetary policy in such a way that boom or bust, 105 00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:55,650 they get the benefit of, of, of, of capital flows in their favour. 106 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:04,940 And so the way the Chinese are doing this is rather different is through what one might call commodity encumbered by trying to take control, 107 00:13:04,950 --> 00:13:11,580 direct control of primary commodities like oil, like key minerals, like like farmland and so on. 108 00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:19,620 And China has its own debt traps to finance massive infrastructure investment around that south. 109 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:28,750 And countries find themselves getting into debt with China. And then the debt trap closes and they find themselves losing key parts of that, 110 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:36,780 their national infrastructural endowment to the economy, to Chinese ownership on very unfavourable terms. 111 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,850 And meanwhile, they're still integrated into global supply chains. 112 00:13:42,270 --> 00:13:46,710 They continue to dominate the global market in most manufactured goods. 113 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:54,659 And the combination of China's vast industrial capacity and the fact that for developing countries 114 00:13:54,660 --> 00:14:01,140 so coal to get on the lower ranks of development now needs such technological proficiency, 115 00:14:01,350 --> 00:14:05,640 unlike, say, 20 or 30 years ago, that it's extraordinarily hard to do so. 116 00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:13,740 What we are finding is that more and more countries in the global south find themselves unable to get on the escalator. 117 00:14:13,740 --> 00:14:21,710 And indeed, due to these other factors, including population growth and so on, they are on the down. 118 00:14:24,450 --> 00:14:31,469 And in this during the neoliberal era, there was, I think, a well-presented fiction. 119 00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:38,700 But the Global South would get on with sense that the austerity was a time limited suffering, 120 00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:46,140 a time limited precarity before some form of gainful employment would spread across the developing world. 121 00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:57,120 I think as we see a return to a sort of I think, if you like, a rival war, a kind of economy driven by a spirit of mercantilism. 122 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:06,370 This the burden. Is being shifted to the global south and that opportunity perhaps of usury in the past, 123 00:15:06,370 --> 00:15:14,319 but at least no illusion is that at least we now have the candour and the fact that no such illusions are being peddled. 124 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:22,420 Those countries are simply be hung out to dry. So the third element is starvation crimes in the Global South. 125 00:15:23,710 --> 00:15:26,830 Starvation as political or military decision. 126 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:36,520 As military decision, which was and has been the major cause of food insecurity globally, but of famine specifically over the years. 127 00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:47,110 Whereas, in the peace conference, Oxfam was founded in the 1940s, as in response to a war famine in Greece, 128 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:54,850 which was imposed and in fact in a collusive manner by the Germans and the allies. 129 00:15:55,870 --> 00:16:00,640 And war famines historically have been the norm. 130 00:16:00,790 --> 00:16:11,409 If we look at the pattern of of of famines as they have unfolded, the great majority of modern famines are caused by violations, 131 00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:22,000 by acts of starvation in the course of war, or indeed by military dictatorships who have no interest in the welfare of that people. 132 00:16:23,740 --> 00:16:32,000 But leaders who pursue policies either deliberately to starve people or recklessly to do so. 133 00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:43,210 Aware that pillage, obstruction of relief and a host of other military actions will reduce people to starvation. 134 00:16:44,110 --> 00:16:53,530 We've seen starvation crimes in the Ukraine. The war crime of starvation, as I said, is depriving civilians of objects indispensable to survival. 135 00:16:53,530 --> 00:16:56,530 And we saw that most particularly in Mariupol. 136 00:16:57,430 --> 00:17:05,650 And that's sadly indicative of war tactics that we've seen resurgent around the world in many places Myanmar, Yemen, Nigeria. 137 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:20,110 But the key point I want to make is that the environment of this with this global geostrategic rivalry, this competition for political will, 138 00:17:20,110 --> 00:17:27,370 political dominance in the context of Ukraine is creating an environment in which there is impunity for starvation crimes. 139 00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:33,280 And I want to give two examples. The first is Ethiopia. 140 00:17:33,730 --> 00:17:42,490 Starting in November of 2020, the Ethiopian government inflicted a campaign of starvation with it, 141 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:52,480 using an unparalleled in my and my experience array of weapons of war intended to try to starve the people into submission. 142 00:17:53,020 --> 00:18:00,280 There's a very interesting echo in the Ethiopian war with what Williams was talking about in Russia. 143 00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:12,160 It's a former Orthodox Christian Orthodox empire with both pretensions to imperial domination over its own subordinate nations and nationalities, 144 00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:19,000 but also a deeply held view that it is a victim and that its people. 145 00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:26,530 It is perfectly correct for its citizenry to to volunteer, 146 00:18:26,530 --> 00:18:34,480 to be martyred in huge numbers in the course of the crisis, in the survival and indeed the greatness of the country. 147 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:44,750 But the and this led to two to a sort of competing victimology on both sides of of of this war. 148 00:18:44,770 --> 00:18:53,020 But there's no doubt that the principal victims should, purely in terms of numbers and the extent of atrocities, 149 00:18:53,020 --> 00:18:57,160 where the people of Tigray, whose whose plight was shut off, 150 00:18:57,460 --> 00:19:03,190 shut off from the eyes of the world by a complete blockade of information, including, 151 00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:09,489 I may say, shamefully, the United Nations collected very little information. 152 00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:14,799 And what little information it did collected did not publish to the extent that the the 153 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:22,150 the normal procedures of diagnosing famine by collecting indicators about malnutrition, 154 00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:31,150 mortality and food supply were not undertake, even though the United Nations Security Council had in 2018 passed them. 155 00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:39,100 What we at the time we hoped was a landmark Resolution 2417 on conflict and food security, 156 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:47,680 obliging the UN Secretary General to alert the Council whenever a conflict threatened to cause food insecurity. 157 00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:59,050 The UN Security Council was not elected. The UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres failed in that obligation to the one member state of the security. 158 00:20:00,270 --> 00:20:05,130 Representative, the Security Council, Ireland that really tried to raise this didn't get anywhere. 159 00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:08,460 It wasn't Gutierrez's fault, at least not his sole fault. 160 00:20:08,490 --> 00:20:18,420 I believe he could have done a lot more. But it was indicative of the way in which a conflict elsewhere in the world was paralysed. 161 00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:24,880 International action to address it was paralysed by what? 162 00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:32,460 The broader context of of of rivalry and the specific context of of of the conflict over Ukraine. 163 00:20:34,140 --> 00:20:37,050 I think I think there is a moral failing of the UN leadership there, 164 00:20:37,530 --> 00:20:46,350 but a wider principle of of the subordination of of multilateral norms and principles to transactional diplomacy. 165 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:56,879 And Sudan, the country on which I have been working now for 39 years, is an even more egregious example. 166 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,880 We are seeing in the last ten days, two weeks, 167 00:21:00,690 --> 00:21:10,530 the emptying of a capital city of some 7 to 10 million people and the imminent threat of of of mass starvation 168 00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:19,620 not pursued deliberately as a policy by either of the two men whom I characterised just recently as as mobsters. 169 00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:23,310 This is really a gangland shootout among kleptocrats. 170 00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:30,390 But we've no interest. No, no, no civilian interest at all. 171 00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:37,919 But the implications of of of a city, 7 to 10 million people who are residents of a city, of course, 172 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,900 entirely dependent upon modern infrastructure and imported food, 173 00:21:43,530 --> 00:21:48,930 evacuating that city and the city, that that is more than half of the economy of the country. 174 00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:54,900 The humanitarian consequences are going to be absolutely calamitous. 175 00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,720 Now, Bennett earlier mentioned divestment overture for some 20 years ago. 176 00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:04,410 There's a sequel to that, which is, I think, very significant, 177 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:12,059 which is some four years ago when there was a long awaited democratic transition, this beautiful, exemplary, 178 00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:15,870 non-violent uprising by the civilian population, 179 00:22:15,870 --> 00:22:20,969 led by many women that decorated the walls around the Ministry of Defence with these 180 00:22:20,970 --> 00:22:26,340 wonderful murals celebrating freedom and that the regime of Omar al-Bashir fell, 181 00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:31,880 it collapsed, something that the United States had been wanting since 1990, 182 00:22:31,890 --> 00:22:39,510 when this man supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iraq and then subsequently invited Osama bin Laden as an honoured guest, 183 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:45,330 as well as these other atrocities such as those in Darfur. Now, 184 00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:50,850 one of the features of of the economy of of the political economy that grew up 185 00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:57,180 in the shadow world of sanctions and divestment was a kleptocratic economy. 186 00:22:57,540 --> 00:23:07,410 It was an economy run, as I said, by rival mobsters, military men who controlled the economy, crony capitalist, illicit activities. 187 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,790 General Hemmati, the head of the paramilitary force, the Rapid Support Forces, 188 00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:16,889 is a major gold trader, illicit gold trade to Russia and the United Arab Emirates. 189 00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:20,310 Russia also has investments on the other side is not just a one sided thing. 190 00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:27,960 When these men were controlling not only that the are the guns, but they were controlled in money. 191 00:23:28,740 --> 00:23:38,430 And shortly after the overthrow of of of of the that kleptocratic military regime with the junior kleptocrats still in charge. 192 00:23:39,150 --> 00:23:48,719 My old friend, senior economist at the United Nations, Abdalla Hamdok, was named to the position of of of prime minister, civilian prime minister. 193 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,010 And I discussed with him the prospects of what he could do. 194 00:23:52,020 --> 00:24:01,620 And in that discussion, we agreed that one likely scenario was that he would end up as the cashier in a corner grocery corner 195 00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:08,670 grocery store selling soap and matches while the mobsters cut their joint deals in the back room. 196 00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:11,520 And that's pretty much what happened. 197 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:19,230 And one of the reasons it happened was, I'm afraid the Trump administration decided that it would rather deal with the mobsters in the backroom. 198 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:29,610 It says it had delegated its policy for the whole of the Middle East and North Africa to its friends and allies in the Middle East. 199 00:24:29,610 --> 00:24:35,940 That was Tijani and that was Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, Trump's and I quote favourite dictator. 200 00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:43,320 That was Benjamin Netanyahu, who decided that, yes, it would be appropriate for the US to lift its sanctions on Sudan. 201 00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:53,220 But first there had to be recognition of Israel and he dealt directly with general help from the other mobster in charge now. 202 00:24:53,730 --> 00:24:57,420 And the other two were Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. 203 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,830 Now all these four countries. Had one thing in common. They didn't like democracy. 204 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,600 And so poor old Abdalla Hamdok was run, hung out to dry. 205 00:25:07,630 --> 00:25:11,290 He was given no debt relief, no sanctions relief. 206 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:18,290 And at the end of the day, he was precisely the man sort of painting the signs on on the cornerstone. 207 00:25:18,730 --> 00:25:23,110 While it's run by the mobsters who then took over, they launched a correction months ago. 208 00:25:23,410 --> 00:25:33,130 Now they're fighting among themselves. And sadly, what we see now is, is a rush by some of those in power. 209 00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:40,120 I mean, Finance Secretary Anthony Blinken has woken up to this and he says he's doing the right thing, 210 00:25:41,710 --> 00:25:49,270 but that there is an enthusiasm for for cutting a deal between the warlords. 211 00:25:49,630 --> 00:25:54,730 The Saudis are in there doing in an immediate sense, the right thing. 212 00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:00,729 But one of the suggestions has been that the former director of the World Food Program, 213 00:26:00,730 --> 00:26:09,910 David Beasley, be the the the mediator, David Beasley just so the 24th of February. 214 00:26:09,910 --> 00:26:17,620 So just a few months ago, I can't say wined and dined because they didn't drink alcohol, but he met with these two kleptocrats. 215 00:26:17,620 --> 00:26:26,740 He was seen and he was given an award by them. And his his his approach to humanitarian diplomacy has been to deal with the power brokers. 216 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:33,370 What we see in Sudan today is actually real humanitarian action, such as it is, 217 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:40,600 is in the hands of those local resistance committees that actually staged the revolution some 40 years ago. 218 00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:44,260 The ones who are keeping, to the extent the power, the water, 219 00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:49,860 the communications safety of civilians has been kept on ISS by these civilian commissions. 220 00:26:49,870 --> 00:26:59,469 It is those people with whom we should be working, so we shouldn't give in to the reflex of this transaction from politics. 221 00:26:59,470 --> 00:27:10,360 But I fear that what we are seeing in this current post invasion of Ukraine world is exactly that reflex. 222 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:16,750 We must deal, of course, we have to deal with those who have power, but we should not do so in just a second. 223 00:27:17,050 --> 00:27:23,800 Jettisoning Principle. So my concluding remark is that we must be candid about this. 224 00:27:24,610 --> 00:27:36,480 If you listen to world leaders speech about global hunger and famine, I can give you the script in 2 to 3 lines. 225 00:27:36,490 --> 00:27:41,649 It starts off by talking about all these factors about armed conflict and hunger, 226 00:27:41,650 --> 00:27:48,100 about the criminality of those who inflict starvation, about poor people not having enough food. 227 00:27:48,940 --> 00:27:52,990 But when they get onto action, it is they just get craned on ships. 228 00:27:55,410 --> 00:28:05,490 That's the easy part we need. And then when they get to the question of access, it is let us negotiate humanitarian access with the powers that be, 229 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:14,010 even though we know these people are dishonest and will defraud you. 230 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:22,740 We need to get into that hard task of dealing really with humanitarian action. 231 00:28:22,980 --> 00:28:32,100 Can working too. And it can only work if it is run on an inclusive and consultative and essentially democratic principle. 232 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:39,360 And it can only work if we recognise at the highest levels of multilateralism that there has to be 233 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:45,600 a right to food and the right to be protected from the deprivation of these starvation criminals. 234 00:28:46,890 --> 00:28:46,900 You.