1 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:20,900 Hello and welcome to Pivot Points. This is the podcast about the pivotal moments that have shaped our academic, professional and personal lives. 2 00:00:21,290 --> 00:00:28,190 I'm Sam Cooke, your head of communications at Wilson College. And I'm all about creating ways for you to share your stories like this podcast. 3 00:00:32,610 --> 00:00:33,059 Do you feel? 4 00:00:33,060 --> 00:00:42,390 Candidate Esto Paolo's has been on a journey in academia, from biomedical chemistry to physics, all the way to geography and sustainable food systems. 5 00:00:42,930 --> 00:00:49,410 She's driven to make an impact in the world, and she's starting right here at Wolfson with her involvement in college governance. 6 00:00:51,130 --> 00:00:56,050 You and I know each other a little bit through generally life at Wolfson, right? 7 00:00:56,380 --> 00:01:01,510 Yeah, that's what I was. I mean, bumped into each other in a few different spaces. 8 00:01:01,610 --> 00:01:04,780 That's actually true. I think we first met each other at the Olympics. 9 00:01:05,230 --> 00:01:08,770 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So. And then also through the green team. 10 00:01:09,070 --> 00:01:14,200 That's true. Mm hmm. And to, like, college governance and general. 11 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:17,850 So. Food. Survey stuff. 12 00:01:18,060 --> 00:01:23,160 Yeah, food surveys. So can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing here at Wilson? 13 00:01:23,790 --> 00:01:29,430 So I'm a student at Wilson. I'm doing a little environmental science. 14 00:01:29,460 --> 00:01:34,140 I started by doing a master, and I was a Wilson student by then as well. 15 00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:43,439 And then I was one year of an associate member. So, yeah, I would say generally I'm a student at Wilson, and now I've taken up some of the, 16 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,910 like, more governance related roles, just trying to help out. 17 00:01:48,180 --> 00:01:58,530 Mm hmm. Um, so I'm part of the subcommittee for the Food and for Catering, and I'm also vice chair of General Meeting. 18 00:01:58,790 --> 00:02:06,520 So I'm representing the student body in the governance of the college. 19 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,200 Yeah. And you're studying food systems? I'm studying food systems. 20 00:02:11,220 --> 00:02:17,010 Exactly. So I'm looking to talk us through that in layman's terms for us. 21 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:23,180 I mean, the good thing is that just started, right? So I don't know anything about layman's terms right now. 22 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,210 So what I'm trying to understand is how to build resilience within the food system. 23 00:02:27,510 --> 00:02:31,739 So, um, the way our food system currently works, 24 00:02:31,740 --> 00:02:38,879 it's arguably not sustainable in a sense that we're like degrading the soil in many parts of the earth. 25 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,170 We are having big issues with biodiversity loss and also, um, yeah. 26 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,940 Increasing climate change through unsustainable agricultural practices and stuff. 27 00:02:48,950 --> 00:02:51,000 So we the question is like, 28 00:02:51,010 --> 00:02:59,110 how can you get the food system into a more sustainable state and then also maintain it that that's what resilience basically means, like trying to. 29 00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:07,810 Like let it stay in a state where, like, we are having enough food for the world population. 30 00:03:07,820 --> 00:03:11,620 That's the goal. But then at the same time, we don't degrade the environment. 31 00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:21,860 We have good economic outcomes as well. So people who earn their living in food system are not like affected by poverty and stuff like that. 32 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:29,060 And as well that you have like social and cultural values which are attached to that they are thriving. 33 00:03:29,300 --> 00:03:34,070 That's the idea. And hence your involvement as Kayseri rep to the college. 34 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,330 Yeah, I kind of. I mean, that was more an accident, to be honest. 35 00:03:38,750 --> 00:03:42,440 I know Freddy, who is the former chair of general meeting, 36 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:47,960 and he was at some point asking me about like, Hey, we've got this position within the college. 37 00:03:48,170 --> 00:03:51,720 We need a catering rep. Would you be interested in doing that? 38 00:03:51,740 --> 00:03:55,060 And I was like, Yes, why not? As life happens. 39 00:03:55,070 --> 00:03:59,120 And so that's how I ended up there. But it's useful to have a background in foods. 40 00:03:59,330 --> 00:04:04,430 Yeah, because you're just. I feel like, more involved in the topic already, so. 41 00:04:04,430 --> 00:04:07,700 Yeah, somehow, like a little bit of a practical application. 42 00:04:07,820 --> 00:04:11,770 Yeah. And it's also kind of I feel like it profits my research as well, right? 43 00:04:11,810 --> 00:04:22,400 Because I actually see what might be the real life problems, if you like, make a smart plan how you can, I don't know, 44 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:29,180 make the food system better and then at some point you realise this is actually not at all applicable in right where you live. 45 00:04:29,180 --> 00:04:34,550 Very different than the real world. Exactly. So it's it's good to have this like groundwork as well. 46 00:04:34,580 --> 00:04:39,800 Yeah, I think so. So can you talk me through your academic journey a little bit? 47 00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:46,760 So you you said you studied three times of biomedical chemistry and then you switched to physics, right? 48 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,530 And now you're studying food systems. So talk me through that journey and how we got to where we are today. 49 00:04:51,950 --> 00:04:55,220 It is a very long story. Sorry. And we have time. 50 00:04:55,590 --> 00:05:03,590 Yeah. I mean, the thing is like it it's not even that exciting, but so it started off basically after school. 51 00:05:03,590 --> 00:05:07,070 Like, I guess every academic journey starts at some. You're German? 52 00:05:07,370 --> 00:05:14,599 I'm German. Yeah, exactly. So I'm I a school not knowing what to do, like basically having no idea what to do. 53 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:22,459 My problem was I kind of liked all subjects in school, so I was always like, I can't really choose and don't want to limit myself. 54 00:05:22,460 --> 00:05:27,440 And what I knew from the start is that I wanted to do something which has a meaning to me. 55 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:35,740 So some way I felt like helping society, helping humanity in like a broad sense, but how I didn't know. 56 00:05:35,750 --> 00:05:42,830 So I was thinking about maybe I should be a teacher or I should do medical science, which was one of the ideas. 57 00:05:43,220 --> 00:05:53,480 And so I think I focussed on medical science because it's a way to like combine a lot of different research fields. 58 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,940 So you need physics and a bit you need biology, you need medicine, you need chemistry. 59 00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:03,650 So that was kind of a way to combine as many sciences as possible. 60 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:13,670 And there was this one course in my hometown university in mines where they had biomedical chemistry, which is basically everything at once. 61 00:06:13,820 --> 00:06:23,660 Right. So I started doing that and there were two things that I quite soon realised, but it took me a time to actually make a decision on that. 62 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:28,190 So the first thing that I realised is that I started a course in chemistry. 63 00:06:28,670 --> 00:06:36,350 It says biomedical chemistry. But the thing like the, the big word in it is chemistry and that's what you're studying. 64 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,590 And did you realise that before you started it or. 65 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:47,659 I did somehow, but I didn't know to what extent it would be chemistry and not biomedical chemistry in the sense that I had. 66 00:06:47,660 --> 00:06:56,390 I think in my whole three terms I had three courses on, but as biology and medicine and the rest was all chemistry courses. 67 00:06:56,900 --> 00:07:07,720 So the second thing that I realised during that time was I'm not really a person who's to or I don't feel really well placed in a laboratory. 68 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:18,379 I'm not a I don't know, I just like I prefer theoretical work in some way, at least if it comes to laboratory work. 69 00:07:18,380 --> 00:07:24,590 So I love interacting with people, but I'm not really a person who's like as her, 70 00:07:24,590 --> 00:07:28,639 for example, standing in front of like things which are very dangerous. 71 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:33,320 Like there are some chemicals which can easily kill you within seconds, or even worse, 72 00:07:33,860 --> 00:07:39,169 they kind of introduce like cancerous processes in your body and you might get cancer like 73 00:07:39,170 --> 00:07:43,640 ten years later without even realising that you're like poisoning yourself right now. 74 00:07:44,210 --> 00:07:52,040 So I was like really anxious about that. So that was something that is not yeah, it's just not for me. 75 00:07:52,340 --> 00:07:59,980 So I was studying it and after some time I was like, Okay, this is really not my not. 76 00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:05,600 My course of study, I should do something else. So based on the environment, you kind of felt like it wasn't your place. 77 00:08:05,810 --> 00:08:08,930 Yeah. Like, based on the. Based on. 78 00:08:09,170 --> 00:08:17,120 I don't know, based on the. So I couldn't picture myself doing something related to chemistry later on and I 79 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:24,500 couldn't picture myself continue doing chemistry for another extended time period, 80 00:08:24,530 --> 00:08:29,030 which would happen, I mean, maybe after my masters I would do, I don't know, 81 00:08:29,210 --> 00:08:35,660 work in a different feel or do a default related to like in more medical topics so I don't have to be in laboratory. 82 00:08:35,870 --> 00:08:41,270 But even then, I was wondering, would I be happy if I would spend my life in the laboratory in some way? 83 00:08:41,570 --> 00:08:47,209 And I answer that question with no. And then something else happened. 84 00:08:47,210 --> 00:08:54,140 I had in my third term, I had a course which was for physical chemistry. 85 00:08:54,380 --> 00:08:58,040 And what we did was quantum mechanics. And I was fascinated. 86 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,059 I was like really fascinated by the whole topic I like. 87 00:09:02,060 --> 00:09:06,530 That was the first course where I was really sitting there and really enjoying myself. 88 00:09:06,950 --> 00:09:13,040 And it was like after just three times I was like, okay, I know I don't really like laboratory work. 89 00:09:13,220 --> 00:09:22,370 And the course of that that I enjoyed most for the whole time of my studies were math, physics and physical chemistry. 90 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:26,450 And I was like, Okay, maybe there's a theme here, maybe there's a theme, 91 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:32,330 maybe it's just just say no to every laboratory, work for now and just go to physics. 92 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:38,690 So that made me switch to physics. But my problem was that that kind of. 93 00:09:39,730 --> 00:09:46,030 Conflicted with my other theme, which was like, I want to do something meaningful and useful. 94 00:09:46,030 --> 00:09:51,300 And my problem with physics always was through my studies that I really loved it. 95 00:09:51,550 --> 00:09:56,140 It's beautiful. I feel like it's like, Ma, the math behind it is beautiful. 96 00:09:56,410 --> 00:10:00,460 The logic is beautiful. I like the way you can, like, derive things. 97 00:10:00,490 --> 00:10:05,500 That was for me, always the thing that I like most that I don't actually have to remember that much. 98 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:09,850 I can derive things as I go and things suddenly make sense. 99 00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:17,679 And it's also fun to see where you actually don't know how how our current knowledge is actually fitting into the picture. 100 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:23,010 And they're concurring or. I'm missing the word here. 101 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,480 Sorry. I'm making this. I would jump in, but math is not my area. 102 00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:33,090 Oh, no, no, no. I'm talking about there's a competition between different knowledge theories. 103 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:42,090 So that's also interesting to see. But it's not really directly useful in a sense that you could say, okay, it's, 104 00:10:42,570 --> 00:10:47,620 I don't know, contribution to, like human health in general in some way. 105 00:10:48,180 --> 00:10:51,780 So when I switched to physics, I was for some time thinking, okay, 106 00:10:51,780 --> 00:11:01,499 I might just stop on that like idea of doing medical research and long run, but I didn't want to let it go completely in the beginning. 107 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:05,520 So what I did, I studied physics and medicine at the same time. 108 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:11,220 So in Germany as in your undergrad? Yes. Okay. So you're quite a journey on your undergrad. 109 00:11:11,310 --> 00:11:18,690 Yeah, I did. So the thing was like, medicine is like it's not like in the U.S. where you have to go to medical school after you study, 110 00:11:18,690 --> 00:11:22,799 but you can study medicine from the go. And that's what I did. 111 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,650 So I studied medicine and physics at the same time. 112 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:31,230 And then I said, okay, I'll give myself one term, and after this one term I will decide whether I do medicine or physics. 113 00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:36,180 And like, I think after three weeks it was clear to me I will do physics, not medicine. 114 00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:43,950 Like that was not a decision to make actually. So I did physics, I did a lot of physics. 115 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:51,960 I loved it. I went into particle physics because I did work in a research group in my university. 116 00:11:52,260 --> 00:12:00,570 So this was still in mind where I was working for some project which is related to Sun. 117 00:12:01,170 --> 00:12:05,249 So I even went to CERN for three months, which was really, really nice. 118 00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:13,110 And during that time period I already kind of knew, still knowing that, I don't know, like, like work that much, 119 00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:19,799 that I would rather go into theoretical physics because I really like this theoretical beauty. 120 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:26,790 So that's what I did. And I thought, okay, maybe I can apply for an only theoretical master. 121 00:12:27,450 --> 00:12:33,870 And there was this one master course in Oxford, which is called mathematics and theoretical physics. 122 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:38,610 I thought perfect for me. So that's why I applied. 123 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:44,250 So you can have your master's. Exactly. And I was lucky enough to get in. 124 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,020 So. Yeah. 125 00:12:46,050 --> 00:12:58,320 But by the time that I wanted to start my masters, I was still kind of confused about what should I do on the long run because I liked the work, 126 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:09,750 but I was still not see myself as a like researcher in physics, not because I don't like it, but because I was like, Is it like it's my liking? 127 00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:14,459 It's enough to keep me fuelled for the rest of my career. 128 00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:19,200 So at that point you didn't see yourself as a pure academic in research? 129 00:13:19,230 --> 00:13:24,570 Yeah, I just didn't know how to apply it in a in a way that is really meaningful to me. 130 00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:31,410 Like, I mean, it's fun doing it, but it's like, just like, I mean, 131 00:13:31,890 --> 00:13:38,700 I think I didn't even think about going into anything but academia because I think it's sometimes quite hard to work as a physicist, 132 00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:42,240 especially a theoretical physicist if you don't stay in academia. 133 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,840 So I can picture myself those jobs. I was. Yeah, exactly. 134 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:52,739 Exactly. So most theoretical physicists I know who did not end up going to academia are doing something completely different, 135 00:13:52,740 --> 00:14:01,170 like consulting or like working in some company, doing some, I don't know, math related stuff, engineering, something like that. 136 00:14:01,170 --> 00:14:05,360 So it's really hard to like. Picture your journey ahead. 137 00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:11,140 And by that time, I got quite involved into climate activism like I. 138 00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:14,030 It kind of developed on the side all the time. 139 00:14:14,510 --> 00:14:23,120 But when I came back from CERN, I had one professor, which I was working with in this like research group in my hometown university, 140 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:36,320 what I was talking about, and he was part of the scientist for future team and in my university, and I asked him whether I could get involved. 141 00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:44,779 And during this whole time of the application and stuff, I was more and more involved into this like climate community. 142 00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:53,180 So we were thinking about starting something where we can advise local policy makers for like how to build cities more sustainably. 143 00:14:53,210 --> 00:14:59,090 We started like a poster of, Yeah, a poster. 144 00:14:59,750 --> 00:15:06,320 How would you call that? Did you did you find that practical experience at that level? 145 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:14,420 Did that give you a different sense of confidence than when you started trying to shift your academic work in that direction as well? 146 00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:22,459 It did. So I think it was actually start like the reason why I shifted it was because I realised like, 147 00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:30,210 this is a problem that I really see that we have to start working on and it's very, really urgent and it's really real world. 148 00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:36,680 And I was like, I really want to I want to contribute in solving this issue also, 149 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:42,140 because I think the more I got involved in it, the more I realised how bad the situation is. 150 00:15:42,770 --> 00:15:47,270 And I think I'm always saying this as a joke, but I think it's there's some truth in that. 151 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:58,970 It's kind of a therapy. So I could either read the IPCC and cry or I can read the IPCC and decide to start acting on those things. 152 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:07,309 So yeah, I think that was the reason why I then said, okay, I want to do something into this like direction in general. 153 00:16:07,310 --> 00:16:10,370 But I had no, I have no idea how. 154 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:14,780 Yeah. And I think what happened was it was actually quite funny. 155 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:17,899 I was on a cycling tour and I was I was cycling. 156 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:22,400 I think I was just cycling into the city, but I was having my headphones and that habit never do it. 157 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:31,700 It's not recommended. It was exactly what I was listening to a podcast and in this podcast I mentioned Frederico ATU, 158 00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:35,870 which is a professor who is a was a professor at Oxford, 159 00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:44,149 now is a professor at Imperial, and she's doing or started something which is called the World Weather Attribution Project. 160 00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:53,490 And what they're trying to do is to understand how much humans or human action has influenced certain extreme weather events. 161 00:16:53,490 --> 00:17:00,170 So like the probability of a certain event occurring in a climate which would have not 162 00:17:00,170 --> 00:17:05,749 been influenced by humans and a climate with human induced greenhouse gas emissions, 163 00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:13,850 and how that would change the probabilities. And she's a theoretical physicist, and I was like, This is fascinating. 164 00:17:13,850 --> 00:17:19,100 First of all, her research is fascinating, but also the fact that she was a theoretical physicist kind of got me into like, 165 00:17:19,460 --> 00:17:24,710 Hey, there's like a world of that where you can be a physicist, 166 00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:29,870 maybe not so much doing physics anymore, but still doing something, math and physics related, 167 00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:37,030 and you could actually like work on that and like apply your skills and in the way that are actually useful directly. 168 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,649 So you found a bit of a role model? Exactly. So I was and I figured out that she was an Oxford. 169 00:17:42,650 --> 00:17:47,990 I literally just heard her name and what she was doing. And then I started my own research, like, what is she actually doing? 170 00:17:48,430 --> 00:17:54,709 Whereas yeah, exactly. And I figured out she's an Oxford, and I was like, Hey, I'm going for like cars in Oxford. 171 00:17:54,710 --> 00:18:00,060 I will do something completely different. Yeah, but I mean, it's the same university. 172 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,260 There has to be a chance of, like, writing an email. 173 00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:06,290 So I wrote her over here. Yes. Right. Yeah. 174 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:13,729 So, so like, I wrote an email being like, Hey, I really, really love your research. 175 00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:17,150 It's so interesting, by the way, I'm starting a cause. 176 00:18:17,150 --> 00:18:24,590 It's like in physics and math, it's not really related to any environmental stuff, but do you know that courses which I can take, 177 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:31,309 which are more environmental related and do you think I could write to you, get in with your heroes for doing it? 178 00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:37,100 You're going to be sent an email response and offers, and I got to respond. 179 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:41,209 I still remember that that day when I was like getting the response. 180 00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:45,280 I was sitting there like. She actually wrote to me about that. 181 00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:51,400 I didn't see that coming at all. But see, I asked her whether I could do a massive thesis with her, 182 00:18:51,910 --> 00:19:01,030 which didn't work out in the end because the maths department was not happy in trying to do a do a thesis in like math and physics course, 183 00:19:01,030 --> 00:19:05,080 which is not market physics. Yeah, it did not work. 184 00:19:05,470 --> 00:19:08,570 But yeah, so I'm going to devote this. 185 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,870 I did get an email to raise funds. And yeah, that kind of got me into. 186 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,579 Into switching into like environmental science and stuff. 187 00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:26,770 So I stayed in the department, so her department, so she was in the side by then, which is the Environmental Change Institute. 188 00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:34,719 And so, yeah, I started working in the Environmental Change Institute for a year after I finished my master's degree. 189 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:40,300 Is also working on food, actually. So you did this year, then you had a year of working at the Institute? 190 00:19:40,420 --> 00:19:46,210 Exactly. And then I started my dphil, and I'm in the first year, so that's how my journey went. 191 00:19:46,510 --> 00:19:50,480 But that's how I ended up in environmental science more broadly. 192 00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:55,350 And food was basically because I worked in food research for that. 193 00:19:56,170 --> 00:20:03,130 Like it was modelling. Yeah. So I think that was the reason why I was asked to do this job, because they were like, Hey, 194 00:20:03,220 --> 00:20:09,940 you know how to model and it's food related, but you don't actually need to know anything about food. 195 00:20:09,940 --> 00:20:12,240 It's more about like actually building the model. 196 00:20:12,250 --> 00:20:19,060 You need to have this like more coding and understanding more skills and not so much dough food system skills. 197 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:26,560 But that kind of got me into this like Whole Foods sphere and it introduced me to my now supervisor, my Dphil Yeah, 198 00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:33,550 so there's a little moment that we skipped over, which is your moment of coming to Oxford and coming to the UK. 199 00:20:33,910 --> 00:20:37,420 So you're German, you grew up in Germany, you grow up in mountains. 200 00:20:37,420 --> 00:20:41,710 Yes. Which is also where you went to university. Yes. So how did it feel for you coming in? 201 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,790 It was quite an experience, 202 00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:52,900 but I think it was a very different experience for like maybe normal times or 203 00:20:52,930 --> 00:20:57,580 compared to normal times just because it was in the middle of COVID you arrived in. 204 00:20:58,210 --> 00:21:01,360 Exactly. So I was it's not normal time. I know. 205 00:21:01,750 --> 00:21:07,780 I remember getting here and I was like, So first of all, getting here was it was a journey, right? 206 00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:11,170 I tried to not fly just because of environmental concerns. 207 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:21,850 So do you have the idea of like, how do I get to the UK without like, the thing is, like when you came from certain countries, 208 00:21:22,330 --> 00:21:27,580 you would need to quarantine a lot depending on like where you travelled to and stuff like that. 209 00:21:27,910 --> 00:21:38,290 So I remember I had to check because my mum, she drove me with her car to Oxford so that I could take some more stuff with me and don't have to fly. 210 00:21:38,650 --> 00:21:42,790 But the funny thing was we drove to France and I was like, 211 00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:48,010 If France has like too many COVID cases and you have to quarantine when you come from France, 212 00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:52,330 even though you don't have to quarantine when you come from Germany, I might still need to quarantine. 213 00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:56,290 So it was like they have that to the very last minute. 214 00:21:56,290 --> 00:21:58,899 I was like really afraid of that. 215 00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:10,450 But then I moved into a big house, which was actually Queen's accommodation with ten other students, most of them students and students in one house. 216 00:22:10,450 --> 00:22:14,530 Yes, but to me it's student experience. To be honest, it was great. 217 00:22:14,740 --> 00:22:22,090 I was so grateful because I feel if I would have not lived in a big house, I would have been lonely. 218 00:22:22,510 --> 00:22:25,600 So lonely because everything was lockdown. 219 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,100 Like there was no chance of going into the department. All my lectures were online. 220 00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:35,649 There was no like organised group activities, nothing. 221 00:22:35,650 --> 00:22:39,969 I mean, even the college was very cautious about, Yeah, 222 00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:50,230 members of our communities which are either having like a greater risk of having a serious COVID case or also we have some families living on site. 223 00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:52,990 So they were also trying to protect those families, right. 224 00:22:54,430 --> 00:23:02,319 Sort of college was very restrictive and who they let in on the ground and what kind of activities can take place. 225 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,690 And I was so lucky because my household was so big that we could actually spend a lot of time together. 226 00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:12,580 So I think that also brought us quite close just because, I mean, 227 00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:19,840 if you're lockdown together and you're hanging out in the kitchen every single evening or go to we had an enormous garden, which was great. 228 00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:23,770 So you go to the garden or you do sports in the morning together. 229 00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:27,340 We went on runs together and stuff like that. You had a good set up. Yeah, that was good. 230 00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:31,569 Just like, honestly, the best thing that could have happened to me. 231 00:23:31,570 --> 00:23:36,200 So I was super happy about that. And then academically, 232 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:43,070 What was your experience like of settling in here and how does that experience differ to the experience of your hometown university? 233 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,470 I think also that might be quite, I guess, hindered also. 234 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:51,409 Yeah, it was in the part of the social aspect of the university. 235 00:23:51,410 --> 00:23:59,290 I think that was so I feel like I had no interaction with Michael, like I had some interaction with my cohort, but very, very little. 236 00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:08,150 I knew like four or five people out of my whole card and we did like sometimes work on exercise sheets together via Zoom, 237 00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:13,040 which was more or less working because you can't really see what other people write. 238 00:24:13,070 --> 00:24:16,400 No one of us had the set up to actually like stream. 239 00:24:16,820 --> 00:24:23,150 I don't know. They're writing on an iPad while I have like a set up where you can actually see them and talk to them and stuff like that. 240 00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:27,410 So it was really hard to like work together as you would normally do. 241 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:34,610 I remember just before the exams when it was already getting a bit better in terms of like COVID restrictions. 242 00:24:34,850 --> 00:24:42,499 We would meet in some of the cafes in Oxford City Centre and sit outside on a table like pouring rain, 243 00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:45,319 and we would sit under this like very small umbrella, 244 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:53,360 not trying to not get out of like sheets of paper completely soaked such that you can read nothing any more. 245 00:24:53,360 --> 00:25:03,469 But it was, yeah, it was quite sad because after I finished my last exams and I mean I think we were also quite conscious before 246 00:25:03,470 --> 00:25:08,570 the exams because no one wanted to get COVID right before the exams because that would have screwed everything. 247 00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:15,380 But after the exams we kind of all met together and that's when I actually got to know my cohort. 248 00:25:15,650 --> 00:25:18,469 And there were such lovely people and I was like, This is so sad. 249 00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:24,620 I could have had such an amazing time with you guys, and I just didn't know you at all, which is so sad. 250 00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:28,760 And now do you feel like you've developed a good social circle and. 251 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,299 Yes, yeah, Yes, I feel like now it's very different, right? 252 00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:38,090 Because with my Dphil cohort and first of all, my department is doing an amazing job for us to get to know each other. 253 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,450 So that very like supportive in a sense that we for example, 254 00:25:42,450 --> 00:25:47,419 I have coffee mornings every week and in those coffee mornings they kind of sponsor 255 00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:51,979 us that we have like some snacks and coffee and then the details just meet and 256 00:25:51,980 --> 00:25:56,959 talk and everyone can like express their thoughts and like their current problems 257 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,470 and what they're enjoying doing and what their plans are and stuff like that. 258 00:26:00,470 --> 00:26:03,850 So it's kind of a support group which is really nice. 259 00:26:03,860 --> 00:26:12,440 And also after I finished my Masters and I started doing the research job here, I actually got to know more people from the college. 260 00:26:12,770 --> 00:26:15,790 And then I, I just love the college community. 261 00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:22,370 Like, yeah, students are lovely, staff is lovely people. 262 00:26:22,370 --> 00:26:26,930 Like I feel it's a very welcoming and accepting community as well. 263 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,799 So I feel like I can be myself, which is great. 264 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,340 That's very nice. And I know you live off site as well, right? 265 00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:40,160 So it's great that you still feel that sense of community and collegiality even though you're living elsewhere. 266 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,760 Yeah, that's true. I'm still living with the people that I left for for my first year. 267 00:26:43,970 --> 00:26:48,080 Really In the. Yes. Ten person house. Exactly. So not all of them. 268 00:26:48,290 --> 00:26:50,779 Not all of that. Some of them finished right. 269 00:26:50,780 --> 00:27:00,610 The Masters students left and some were like, I don't know, like they basically did their own thing quite a lot, but they like the core people. 270 00:27:00,620 --> 00:27:04,609 One of them unfortunately graduated. What means? Unfortunately, he graduated. 271 00:27:04,610 --> 00:27:11,690 I'm very proud of him. Yeah, exactly. But the rest of us are still around and we're living together still so great. 272 00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:17,270 And what's your kind of what's your routine with what's and like, how often do you come in? 273 00:27:17,270 --> 00:27:21,650 What do you do when you come here. Mhm. What's your college life like. 274 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,340 Okay. That's actually a good question. I mean it really depends. 275 00:27:26,510 --> 00:27:29,840 I feel like it has gotten even more intense now, 276 00:27:30,170 --> 00:27:38,260 but I feel like I'm often getting in in the mornings that I sometimes go to the gym, sometimes a lot of the day. 277 00:27:38,750 --> 00:27:42,440 And I work often in the cafe which is lovely, 278 00:27:43,340 --> 00:27:53,149 drink some nice cappuccino with milk and do some work so you give yourself some treatment doing during working time. 279 00:27:53,150 --> 00:27:56,660 And yeah, I often go to the at the common room as well. 280 00:27:56,660 --> 00:28:05,479 I don't actually go to the library that often. And then after that I have like a lot of like other stuff going on. 281 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:11,420 So I'm going to some dancing society staff or I'm singing in a choir. 282 00:28:11,420 --> 00:28:14,750 But sometimes I play with the music society here. 283 00:28:15,410 --> 00:28:23,840 So we did some gigs or like for example, now with the ball we played at the ball or I'm, 284 00:28:24,110 --> 00:28:30,020 I don't know, like I'm lately I'm in a lot of meetings actually with the college governance. 285 00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:33,960 Yeah. Which is also very interesting to see to like see. 286 00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:38,800 All those things that you experience as a student come into play and how they're planned. 287 00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:44,690 Well, let's talk through that a little bit because. I think that's something that comes up a lot, right? 288 00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:49,810 Like, I think people naturally have feelings and opinions about what goes on in their college 289 00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:54,700 environment and don't necessarily know that they can get involved and have a say in that. 290 00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:58,600 That's true. So what was your. So you mentioned Freddie. 291 00:28:59,490 --> 00:29:04,710 Told you about the catering position, and then you've also got involved in general meeting. 292 00:29:04,770 --> 00:29:07,140 Yes. So what was your experience about? 293 00:29:07,630 --> 00:29:14,550 So first of all, I mean, I had my first general meeting yesterday, actually, and it was very, very interesting. 294 00:29:15,210 --> 00:29:24,090 I'm not sure if I got your question correctly. Do you want to know, like how I got into that more or do I think like how you got into it? 295 00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:28,440 But also what sparked your feeling that you wanted to get into it? 296 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:35,230 I think for me it's always like when I see something which I would like to improve or like where I have an idea of what you could do. 297 00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:39,030 I'm always like, I can't complain without at least trying to change it. 298 00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:45,450 So I think that was driving me to do this. And that's the same attitude that seems to have got you involved in food systems as well. 299 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,700 Yeah, exactly. It's always the same. It's always like I'm feeling responsible for doing something. 300 00:29:51,150 --> 00:29:59,219 And I mean, knowing Freddie helped a lot, right? Because I knew someone who was already doing this and who knew who to speak to. 301 00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:03,210 And I mean, generally those positions get advertised through the college. 302 00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:06,239 So it's not something where you have to know someone, 303 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:12,930 but it's more like he made me aware of that because we get letters from the college which are telling you, 304 00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:16,680 okay, those are the events happening, those are the positions here. 305 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,110 We need some student representative here, We need some help here. You can have your say, maybe a survey or something. 306 00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:28,560 But often because you get so many emails, they just get lost somewhere and you don't read them thoughtfully, as you should. 307 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,890 So I feel like it helped me quite a lot to just see that the opportunities are there. 308 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:40,020 And then I just yeah, I just applied basically. 309 00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:44,670 So. And what is it that you want to impact or change within the college? 310 00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:48,990 So there are several things which I think I would like to act on. 311 00:30:48,990 --> 00:30:55,320 So one of the things is like, as you mentioned, I'm not living on college side and I've never lived on college side. 312 00:30:55,650 --> 00:31:01,360 And I feel sometimes there's quite a divide between students who live in college and students who don't live in college. 313 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:07,940 So, for example, I've got some people in my cohort who are actually Wharton students but who never come in. 314 00:31:08,250 --> 00:31:14,879 I can never see them. And one of the reasons because they're never coming in is because they just don't live in college. 315 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:20,430 And this is an effort for them to come in because it's quite far north. 316 00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:25,080 I mean, at quotation marks, it's like, yeah, exactly. 317 00:31:25,620 --> 00:31:31,829 The thing is like it's not that far out, but in Oxford, in the grand scheme of things, you can cycle across it in 15 minutes. 318 00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:36,149 Sorry, I'm cycling in from the other end of the city in 25 minutes in the morning. 319 00:31:36,150 --> 00:31:39,750 It's okay. And I'm a very slow cyclist. A cyclist? 320 00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:47,160 No know, but I feel like. Like you have a reason to come here or you need a reason to come here. 321 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,209 And sometimes it's also like just practical things. Like for example, 322 00:31:51,210 --> 00:31:55,860 we're now trying to advertise that there are lockers available for students so 323 00:31:55,860 --> 00:32:00,930 that people who don't come in every day have the opportunity to lock some stuff. 324 00:32:01,290 --> 00:32:06,449 And if you're like, for example, playing tennis and you want your racket to be stored in college because you 325 00:32:06,450 --> 00:32:10,530 don't want to take your racket home every single time you want to play tennis, 326 00:32:11,340 --> 00:32:17,340 it makes some sense to just store it in college and keep it here or have a spare set of clothes. 327 00:32:17,610 --> 00:32:22,830 If the rain is starting again and you get soaked on you on your cycle here, which happens to me quite often. 328 00:32:24,570 --> 00:32:33,330 So things like this that you like have a more in the know that like them both students communities you've got like people 329 00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:39,720 living inside and people living outside like growing together more and that there's more exchange between those two worlds. 330 00:32:40,140 --> 00:32:45,750 So that's something that I would like to achieve. I think the second thing what I'm really passionate about is food. 331 00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:51,450 I'm trying to you're working quite closely with Michael, who's our head chef. 332 00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:58,110 Exactly. And I would like to improve on sustainability and vegan and vegetarian food. 333 00:32:58,380 --> 00:32:59,790 Not so much the taste. 334 00:32:59,790 --> 00:33:08,580 I think we just run a survey and I mean, I can talk about the results so too much now because they're not officially released yet, 335 00:33:08,940 --> 00:33:13,200 but I feel like people in general weren't too, like too unhappy about the food. 336 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,129 So it seems like in general people are quite happy about it. 337 00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:24,060 But there are still some things that you could do to like, improve to take up on vegan and vegetarian food, 338 00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:33,510 especially since the college has a sustainability strategy and they want to be like or they want to reach net zero this like this year. 339 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:46,200 So I feel like having a yeah, going alongside with a well thought through food and catering related strategy would actually be just natural. 340 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:53,160 And I mean, it's hard because you don't want to force anyone to eat vegan, vegan or vegetarian. 341 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,620 I think it's more like actually increasing the visibility and like trying to. 342 00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:05,310 Like raise awareness. What are the consequences if you eat meat and dairy products? 343 00:34:05,580 --> 00:34:10,350 Maybe I should mention that I'm vegan myself, just that there's like no confusion about that. 344 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:16,980 But so yeah, we're talking about maybe also one of the questions, for example, in the survey was, 345 00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:23,970 is it okay for students of members of the college in general to have, for example, a meat free day each week, 346 00:34:24,330 --> 00:34:29,910 just that you have like one day a week where you just have more vegetarian vegan options but no meat, 347 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:38,750 and maybe that makes you discover your new favourite dish, which is kind of lonely with spinach and halloumi cheese, whatever. 348 00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:41,760 Like, I don't know if this actually goes well together. 349 00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:50,220 But the thing is, like, Ed, maybe, maybe you would like, find something else that you like which does not have meat but is still tasty. 350 00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:57,270 So yeah, it's about that. I'm trying to push for like more sustainability in that respect. 351 00:34:58,170 --> 00:35:07,230 So outside of college life then, and thinking about your current academic career and where you might want to go next and also in your personal life, 352 00:35:07,710 --> 00:35:12,540 what are you dreaming of right now? What I'm dreaming of in like academic terms? 353 00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:16,350 I mean, finishing this dphil this is a dream. 354 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:27,120 The big finish date year at least. I do know like, I mean, you start out by saying three years, but then nearly everyone I know is doing four. 355 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:30,990 You know, I'm not sure I should go for I don't know. 356 00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:36,660 But at some point in time I would like to finish it not too far ahead. 357 00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:42,240 And as for the longer run, I'm actually quite unsure. 358 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,590 Currently, I would like to am torn between two things. 359 00:35:46,590 --> 00:35:52,350 I really like academia, but then I'm also like, where can I have the biggest impact? 360 00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:59,610 And I might actually like to go somewhere where I can have like more direct policy impact. 361 00:35:59,610 --> 00:36:10,469 So I don't know, being in a in a big organisation like the FAO or the UN or the W.H.O. or something like that, 362 00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:18,720 where you can actually like work on real life problems and not just the academic side would be nice, 363 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:26,070 or being an academic advisor for something like that would be something that I would be interested in because I feel like, 364 00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:31,770 yeah, I would like to apply my research in a way that is useful in a practical way. 365 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,630 Yeah, that would be nice. And where is there anywhere specific in the world that you see yourself doing that? 366 00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:40,860 That's a good question because I'm not a person who's going on fieldwork, 367 00:36:40,860 --> 00:36:47,160 which is very sad, and models and models are not necessarily needing you to go elsewhere. 368 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:56,550 And there are a lot of people in my world who are like going to all different kind of places from South Africa to Indonesia to Australia, everywhere. 369 00:36:58,950 --> 00:37:08,280 I don't know. I think it's more a question of where the opportunity opens up and what the specific circumstances are, 370 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:18,390 because currently I wouldn't be like I think I would be happy everywhere with like, I don't know. 371 00:37:19,050 --> 00:37:25,170 So I think it really depends on how long I would stay there and what the like situation would be in general. 372 00:37:25,530 --> 00:37:32,790 Because I think one thing that I realised living abroad is that one thing, the only thing basically for me, 373 00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:38,670 which makes me a lot sad, is that you're not seeing your family and friends home that often. 374 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:48,239 And I'm very like, I'm a big family person, so I really love my sister, I really love my parents, my grandparents, like my cousins. 375 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:56,430 It's it's really nice to have them around me and it's so sad that I see them now much less frequently than I used to. 376 00:37:57,270 --> 00:38:06,120 And living abroad, especially if it's overseas in the sense that you're going to the US or to Asia or Africa, 377 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,880 that you actually have long distances to travel. 378 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:17,879 The pandemic kind of also showed me that it's sometimes it can really be not just a six or seven hour flight, 379 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:24,000 it can be in like, yeah, a real border in a sense, if you can't transport. 380 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:32,490 And I mean, I'm so lucky because I've got a German passport I can get into most countries in this world rather easily. 381 00:38:32,970 --> 00:38:37,680 But I have friends who are from very different countries and for them, 382 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:43,350 just going to Europe is now a hassle because their visa is telling them you can go to 383 00:38:43,350 --> 00:38:50,730 the UK and the UK only and I feel this is something that you shouldn't just ignore. 384 00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:57,480 So I would be open to go everywhere, but I would really need to have a think about it before I go. 385 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,580 Yeah. No, I agree I. I think that's very important. You've got to think about where you're. 386 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:09,320 Where you feel most grounded, I think. Yes. Yeah. Well, here's to seeing more family and close friends in the future, then. 387 00:39:09,590 --> 00:39:13,520 Yeah. Let's see. Maybe I can convince them to come here. Yeah, I think so. 388 00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:17,030 Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Yeah, it's great to have you. 389 00:39:17,060 --> 00:39:18,500 Hope I didn't talk too much.