1 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:20,900 Hello and welcome to Pivot Points. This is the podcast about the pivotal moments that have shaped our academic, professional and personal lives. 2 00:00:21,290 --> 00:00:28,190 I'm Sam Cooke, your head of communications at Wilson College. And I'm all about creating ways for you to share your stories like this podcast. 3 00:00:30,050 --> 00:00:34,160 Dr. Yang Chan Kim is a Sir Henry welcome fellow here at Wolfson. 4 00:00:34,790 --> 00:00:43,640 He's also. And get ready for this. A junior research fellow, a senior post-doctoral researcher, a lecturer in clinical medicine. 5 00:00:44,030 --> 00:00:48,920 An NHS doctor at the John Radcliffe. A father and a husband. 6 00:00:50,290 --> 00:00:55,660 He speaks with equal joy and humility about all of his roles and somehow makes it all sound doable. 7 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,280 For anyone finding the balance between family, academic and professional life. 8 00:01:01,490 --> 00:01:08,200 This one's for you. Firstly, thanks for having me. 9 00:01:09,170 --> 00:01:12,490 So my name is Young. I'm a junior research fellow Northern College. Thank you for being. 10 00:01:12,820 --> 00:01:18,760 Yeah, Nice. My pleasure. Firstly, I would like to thank Austin College for supporting me and my family for last two years. 11 00:01:20,380 --> 00:01:27,910 You guys have provided me with such a wonderful environment for academic people, so I'm doing sort of, you know, research. 12 00:01:28,150 --> 00:01:34,030 My wife is also doing PhD, so and also to have a young family, we feel really well supported. 13 00:01:34,210 --> 00:01:39,130 We live in a college as well. So I think I think it's a really wonderful job that you guys are doing. 14 00:01:39,130 --> 00:01:44,380 So I just want to say thank you. That's nice. Yeah. I didn't realise your wife is also doing this because she is as well. 15 00:01:46,930 --> 00:01:51,430 Yes. So, yeah, just a bit of introduction, background basically. 16 00:01:51,430 --> 00:01:56,020 And just to give a context to what these people two point would mean in my life. 17 00:01:56,740 --> 00:02:02,170 So I thought I'm very fortunate to have sort of multiple roles that keep me very busy, 18 00:02:02,650 --> 00:02:07,090 but at the same time I'm quite excited and into being able to do all these things. 19 00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:16,540 So firstly, I'm sorry, and you're welcome, fellow in the Department of Medicine and I'm a senior researcher at Oxford Vaccine Group, 20 00:02:17,470 --> 00:02:24,670 and my research is to focus on developing new vaccines and diagnostics against pathogens, 21 00:02:24,670 --> 00:02:29,350 particularly ones that are more sort of neglected or prominent in developing countries. 22 00:02:29,350 --> 00:02:35,440 So sort of a poor countries. I'm a lecturer in medicine in some of the college, 23 00:02:35,860 --> 00:02:43,480 so I'm teaching sort of various topics in infectious diseases and microbiology to people, including clinical medical students. 24 00:02:44,290 --> 00:02:49,120 And I also work in jail as a doctor in acute medicine. 25 00:02:49,450 --> 00:02:53,260 So to keep my clinical skills and clinical work going. 26 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,510 But most importantly, I'm a parent of a total year who's three years old. 27 00:02:59,350 --> 00:03:06,190 And I must say, looking after probably takes most lots of time and energy and harvest as well. 28 00:03:06,370 --> 00:03:14,590 Yes. And my wife, Tanya, she's doing a Ph.D. in history of design at Royal College of Arts. 29 00:03:15,910 --> 00:03:21,160 So for our family, I think sort of time management and teamwork is sort of the key. 30 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,799 And of course, as with so many other families, it's sometimes quite a find. 31 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,580 Your balance is quite stressful. Could be hard. 32 00:03:30,970 --> 00:03:35,910 One thing I think we all get, you know, going through this quite okay, I can imagine. 33 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,100 Yes, it's a lot to manage on one plate. Yes. 34 00:03:39,100 --> 00:03:45,610 So let's dive straight into that, actually. So that kind of comes to you to your third pivot point a little bit so we can just jump through this. 35 00:03:45,610 --> 00:03:48,459 Yeah. Yeah. Which is about about your family. 36 00:03:48,460 --> 00:03:55,390 So one of my questions really was how do you how do you manage that on a day to day basis, like you and your wife and your daughter? 37 00:03:55,390 --> 00:04:02,230 How do you manage that as two individuals wanting to pursue your own passions, your own careers, and have a family? 38 00:04:02,260 --> 00:04:04,360 Yes. How do you make time for that? Okay. 39 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:14,680 So essentially, my family was formed during my PhD, so I we went through basically a marriage childbirth pandemic. 40 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:20,889 So I meet my wife at sort of towards the end of my first year of the field in 2016. 41 00:04:20,890 --> 00:04:25,540 And sort of she was at that point doing a masters degree in Southampton University. 42 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:37,030 And then we got married one year later in 2017 and she started a PhD in September 1803, interestingly, in the first month of teaching. 43 00:04:37,570 --> 00:04:42,610 So she went to have this completely unrelated ultrasound for something else. 44 00:04:43,090 --> 00:04:48,340 And then we found out that she was five weeks pregnant. So normally you don't you don't find out until later. 45 00:04:48,460 --> 00:04:55,480 So we found out that she was pregnant at five weeks, which was very unexpected, is a great news. 46 00:04:56,140 --> 00:04:57,580 But at the same time, I remember, 47 00:04:57,580 --> 00:05:04,090 like I was really worrying about like what's going to happen to us now because she was just starting a Ph.D. and very passionate. 48 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,790 So I remember we were spending a lot of time together, like working really hard, 49 00:05:09,790 --> 00:05:16,000 as hard as we can for that eight month period to get as much work going as possible. 50 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,270 So that that I think was quite interesting, period. Yeah. 51 00:05:20,350 --> 00:05:24,159 One of the other sort of funny episode that we had was I wouldn't count. 52 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,750 I was a 36 weeks old. 53 00:05:26,590 --> 00:05:35,350 So, you know, you go for routine ultrasounds and they there were the doctors that were telling us that it was very small, too small. 54 00:05:35,710 --> 00:05:41,770 And she could she's potentially having sort of a growth restriction inside the uterus, not getting enough nutrients. 55 00:05:42,070 --> 00:05:46,270 So then they said, oh, now we need to induce her to come out. 56 00:05:46,540 --> 00:05:54,580 These could take her out. Yes, I remember us the day next day was Danny's birthday. 57 00:05:55,030 --> 00:06:00,460 So we said, oh, can we induce a day after her birthday so we can have a celebration? 58 00:06:00,970 --> 00:06:06,180 Yes. So we induced we celebrated her birthday without a health. 59 00:06:06,650 --> 00:06:09,100 One last time and the next that we we induced. 60 00:06:10,090 --> 00:06:19,090 She we went for induction and the was born on the day after because he took almost 20 something hours to get the induction done. 61 00:06:19,510 --> 00:06:25,149 Yeah. So. So that was sort of quite interesting but it's quite funny how you know that. 62 00:06:25,150 --> 00:06:29,560 But it could have been sort of saying, well yeah, it could have been same if we didn't ask. 63 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:36,150 So that that's kind of Yeah. What it was and. I think I think, you know, 64 00:06:36,330 --> 00:06:46,229 when I think having a family is great and one of the best decisions are made for my family was that I was in my third 65 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:55,380 year of so finishing third year of my dphil and but we didn't really have a family in the UK that could sort of help us. 66 00:06:55,980 --> 00:07:04,590 So I took six months paternity leave, so I took a six month paternity leave to look after full time childcare for a year. 67 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:11,160 Well, partly because we didn't have support, but also I wanted because I was getting towards my dphil, 68 00:07:11,550 --> 00:07:20,370 I wanted Donna to recover quickly and so that she can go back to a PhD, basically because she couldn't have she couldn't really start properly. 69 00:07:21,010 --> 00:07:25,950 So, so that that involved sort of, you know, everything, basically nappy change, 70 00:07:26,670 --> 00:07:30,780 preparing bottle meals, putting Leah to sleep during the day and night. 71 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:38,520 So I did all of those for six months. Amazing. And Donna didn't have to do any of this the first six months at all. 72 00:07:38,820 --> 00:07:42,050 So I think I'm quite proud of that. And she really had some good records. Yes. 73 00:07:42,060 --> 00:07:45,900 Yes. And luckily, yeah, of course, she works really hard, too. 74 00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:50,310 And then she managed to sort of get back on track with her students progressing. 75 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,020 Well, that's amazing. Yes. 76 00:07:52,020 --> 00:07:59,370 I mean, but, you know, so you really kind of make space for each other, I think sometimes for each other's academic pursuits. 77 00:07:59,490 --> 00:08:07,170 I think I think this is the key. Okay. I'm normally very quiet and also very focussed on what I want to achieve. 78 00:08:07,770 --> 00:08:13,649 But by having a family, then you you learn how to, you know, make time for your partner, 79 00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:18,530 both for your child and sometimes some people or sometimes you think that, oh, you know, 80 00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:29,010 I'm spending maybe too much time there, but you actually learn that you can sort of manage your time more efficiently and at the same time, 81 00:08:29,010 --> 00:08:32,640 sort of it definitely gives you a sort of more purposeful life, I would say. 82 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,650 So for me, having family was a you know, it has been great, actually. 83 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:40,470 Can you talk me through a day in the life of your family? 84 00:08:40,950 --> 00:08:49,440 Oh, so so Donna basically had submission that line, and it's because they have an exam every year. 85 00:08:49,580 --> 00:08:54,209 Yeah. So she's, you know, in her now she's doing part time. 86 00:08:54,210 --> 00:09:03,690 So she's in her fourth year and she had to submit a thesis so she would so not this is a chapter of a thesis for her like examination. 87 00:09:04,110 --> 00:09:13,350 So then she would, she would do that and I would drop Leah off at the nursery and she's just you just all day. 88 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:18,360 I don't think she even goes out that much in the room, you know, really focussed. 89 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:29,040 Right. So things. And when we come home, I'd be sorry to say I sometimes go to the lab or I sometimes work from home or I sometimes go to hospital, 90 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:34,379 the fairies, but I normally go and pick up Leah as well. 91 00:09:34,380 --> 00:09:37,560 So I think I've been doing that for the last four, three years. 92 00:09:37,710 --> 00:09:46,620 So I've been the main person to, you know, do a school run. And when we come home, then, you know, she would once, once at a five, 93 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:50,909 she sort of finishes her work and then she spends time with the family, basically. 94 00:09:50,910 --> 00:09:54,540 And then she cooks, she does all the house chores. 95 00:09:55,830 --> 00:09:59,309 And then like in the evening, I think it it's more sort of varied. 96 00:09:59,310 --> 00:10:03,480 But then she gives it gives me time to do other things that I can do during the day. 97 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:10,260 Or if sometimes I do work at night, like in hospital, then I will go and she will obviously look after her. 98 00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:14,990 So it varies a lot depending on who has a priority as and who has a deadline. 99 00:10:15,780 --> 00:10:24,420 So yeah, until last week she she had a lot of priority, you know, and in that one month period and I would just, 100 00:10:24,990 --> 00:10:28,760 you know, even on the weekends I would take Leah out myself phone so that she can work as well. 101 00:10:28,830 --> 00:10:32,880 Yeah. But not now When she's finished then, then it's like we take turns. 102 00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:36,180 Yeah. So you just make time depending on what the priority is. 103 00:10:36,350 --> 00:10:43,110 Exactly. And so you mentioned that you feel very well supported and comfortable here at Wolfson especially. 104 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:49,080 What do you do to spend time together at Wolfson or kind of in the surrounding areas in Oxford? 105 00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:54,749 Yeah, we spend time. Yeah. So, I mean, I've looked at, you know, a couple of the colleges. 106 00:10:54,750 --> 00:10:58,290 I was in some of the college for Dphil, but I remember, you know, 107 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:05,840 sometimes if I go because it's an undergraduate graduate college and they aren't that many students with a family bursary. 108 00:11:05,860 --> 00:11:11,160 So and if you go that with a pushchair that they haven't even got a lift to go up the stairs for example. 109 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:22,170 So but whereas in Oxford you've got so many families living in college and so many fellows who lives in college as well, 110 00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:29,010 and they've got there's a family society, there's a playroom, so we sometimes go and spend time there. 111 00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:32,940 There's a punting that is just here as well. And so we would go for painting. 112 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,110 It is a playground as well. So, I mean, I don't think you get this in other colleges. 113 00:11:38,190 --> 00:11:46,900 Yeah, I think so. And because we live in college, I mean, you know, if I wanted to go to the library to work for one 2 hours, I don't have to go. 114 00:11:46,990 --> 00:11:53,660 I just go to the library more and save for dinner. And, you know, there's a dining hall most of the time as well. 115 00:11:53,710 --> 00:11:59,590 So she struggling to cook, find time to cook. Then we can just pick up food from there and eat. 116 00:11:59,590 --> 00:12:08,530 And I think it's a perfect environment for an academic person and, you know, to focus and study all the focus of your research, basically. 117 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:15,250 So. Well, that's really great. So just going back to your to your research and also your professional work as a doctor, 118 00:12:15,850 --> 00:12:23,140 I'm interested in why you chose to, uh, to pursue academic research alongside working as a doctor. 119 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:27,910 Why, why did you feel you wanted to do both? Yes. Yeah. 120 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:31,300 So I think it comes back to my first pivot moment. 121 00:12:31,690 --> 00:12:37,030 So that would be so the decision to come to the UK to study in 2005. 122 00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:40,390 Mm hmm. So that's already 18 years ago. And where were you living before? 123 00:12:40,420 --> 00:12:44,690 I was. I was in South Korea originally, but I've been living in the UK. 124 00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:50,290 Fox News 18. Yes. So now completely. It has to be as a British amount, it does feel like home. 125 00:12:50,740 --> 00:12:55,180 Yeah. So I find a bit more strange when I go to South Korea. 126 00:12:55,510 --> 00:12:58,330 So I get I definitely feel more home in the UK now. 127 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:06,010 So that, that and alongside, you know, I've had sort of various time stages at which I could have made a different decisions. 128 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:14,800 But it sort of I, you know, went along with what I really wanted to do and I didn't really sort of listen to, 129 00:13:14,980 --> 00:13:19,480 you know, what other people are suggesting. And of course, there were some really good advice there. 130 00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:25,510 But I think I really followed what I wanted to, although so essentially, I came in 2005, 131 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:32,710 studied an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, so sort of in a very that gave me really broad understanding of science. 132 00:13:34,210 --> 00:13:36,760 And um, you know, 133 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:45,070 I remember like back then it's a long time ago that I remember back then I found it quite difficult to settle into the UK because it was first time 134 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:54,370 coming to the UK to study and which is why I can sort of definitely relate to some of the international students who come from abroad to sit in, 135 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,580 you know, Oxford and also in college for the very first time. 136 00:13:57,820 --> 00:14:02,740 Um, and so I'm also a college advisor for, for students. 137 00:14:03,790 --> 00:14:08,739 So this is job number. Yes. Which I didn't mention that is just for listeners. 138 00:14:08,740 --> 00:14:14,230 I was checking out your LinkedIn profile out here and there are five active presently presently active job. 139 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:23,979 So yes, I was very impressed. So so yeah some of them, they've they're from abroad and I know some of them, they came to the UK for first time. 140 00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:34,500 So then I sometimes I try to help and support them as much as I can, you know, so that that's another thing because I understand how, you know, 141 00:14:34,510 --> 00:14:42,249 how they can be from abroad because, you know, not just academically but you know, culturally and such and settling in, especially for family. 142 00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:47,130 I think all the other things know, you have to know like school and other things. 143 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,190 So let's talk about that. What was your what was your experience when you first came here? 144 00:14:51,460 --> 00:14:56,200 How did you find that the process of settling and, um, I mean, 145 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:03,190 for me it might be a bit different to families coming into schools and to study because I've been to Oxford, 146 00:15:03,190 --> 00:15:06,220 to study because I was only 18, 19 at that time. 147 00:15:06,730 --> 00:15:09,950 So I guess I didn't. And you came to Oxford when you're 18? 148 00:15:09,970 --> 00:15:13,960 Oh, I went to Imperial College London to do an undergraduate degree. 149 00:15:14,950 --> 00:15:18,250 But luckily I think my class are quite, quite diverse. 150 00:15:18,340 --> 00:15:23,530 So there were quite a lot of students from abroad who came to the UK to study. 151 00:15:23,530 --> 00:15:30,910 So I made lots of friends there and you know, they were very helpful and my brother came as well to study. 152 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:34,660 So he was studying sort of microbiology, something related. 153 00:15:35,020 --> 00:15:42,550 So then that was really helpful too. Yeah, Yeah. So I think having a, you know, friends or family at that time was helpful because, 154 00:15:43,090 --> 00:15:47,889 you know, academically, I mean, you know, everyone's working really hard studying radio. 155 00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:53,500 And so of course that that's okay. But settling into a new culture is always a bit of a challenge, I think. 156 00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:58,810 Yeah. And was there ever a time where you were interested in pursuing a different subject area? 157 00:15:59,980 --> 00:16:05,469 Were you always interested in medicine and biology? I think so, because I did A-levels as well. 158 00:16:05,470 --> 00:16:16,450 So then you kind of specialise into certain areas, so and during biochemistry degree I because I for my A-levels I did five subjects actually. 159 00:16:17,380 --> 00:16:21,670 So you could have been engineering for example, or some maths or something, it could be something else. 160 00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:33,010 But I remember in my third year of biochemistry degree because many of my friends didn't really do for the matter of months or physics in A-level. 161 00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:36,940 That was my technology module, so like engineering module. 162 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,090 And I thought, okay, so having the all that and I did it really well. 163 00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:48,310 So I thought, okay, let's take this module because, you know, I'm sure I'll have sort of advantage of that. 164 00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:56,170 But I found it really, really difficult because what you're learning and then now university, I think there's a big gap. 165 00:16:56,180 --> 00:17:01,060 Yeah. Yeah. Because Yeah. So then I realised, okay, so engineering subjects are not for me. 166 00:17:02,140 --> 00:17:06,640 I have to do like medicine or biochemistry sort of that side of things. 167 00:17:07,780 --> 00:17:14,589 And also during my undergrad degree I did a lot of volunteering work actually in Africa, 168 00:17:14,590 --> 00:17:21,940 India and Greece, sort of, you know, for refugees and poor children. 169 00:17:22,330 --> 00:17:32,020 And, and also my, my, my, my parents and my dad is also sort of a medical doctor and also a scientist in infectious diseases. 170 00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:37,300 So I think naturally, I, you know, seeing the all the health disparity that you have, 171 00:17:37,450 --> 00:17:41,049 you know, when you go to all these voluntary work plus, you know, you know, 172 00:17:41,050 --> 00:17:45,850 my background of my parents being a doctor and seeing from early on when when 173 00:17:45,850 --> 00:17:49,710 he went when he used to take us to all some of the volunteering work as well. 174 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,340 So then seeing all this made me think, okay, I want to do medicine. 175 00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:59,680 And, you know, hopefully one day I'll be able to contribute to sort of improving this health disparity. 176 00:18:00,010 --> 00:18:06,469 Um, and now you're, you're on the frontlines again, but in a different context as an NHS doctor. 177 00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:14,440 So how does that compare? I think I think this is, it's really relevant to the to do both. 178 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,479 It's hard to do both very well, but then I think it's really good that I'm doing it. 179 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:27,490 So I went to study medicine after my undergrad degree at Nottingham University and from 2013 I sort of. 180 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,350 Start started to work as a as a doctor, an NHS, doing a foundation training in Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham. 181 00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:45,810 So then like that, that really gave me, I say, you know, really improved me as a person and also, you know. 182 00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:56,750 Okay, give me all these key qualities, I would say, because, you know, working as a doctor in NHS, it's, you know, yeah, it's not very easy. 183 00:18:56,750 --> 00:19:06,200 But then at the same time, you know, when you treat the patients and then they get better with your treatment, it's really rewarding. 184 00:19:06,650 --> 00:19:11,360 But then at the same time you have a lot of responsibility and you know you 185 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:16,249 are seeing the patients and you try to be as nicely nice to them as possible, 186 00:19:16,250 --> 00:19:24,079 you know, try to listen to them and, you know, treat them, you know, keep, you know, as much as you can. 187 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:31,190 Although, you know, when you're on call, it's really, really difficult because you lost so many patients on the ward, so say on weekends or nights. 188 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:38,270 But that that sort of gave me, you know, taught me a lot of qualities that would say to be more patient, 189 00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:44,390 be a good listener, um, sort of, you know, perseverance, persevere, basically. 190 00:19:45,620 --> 00:19:53,179 And also it gave me sort of importance of, you know, translational research that, you know, 191 00:19:53,180 --> 00:19:58,250 could impact or it could contribute to improving patients health in a much larger scale. 192 00:19:58,670 --> 00:20:07,310 So that that really gave me that idea. And that's also one of the reason why I still try to go and work as a doctor, because it reminds me that, 193 00:20:07,970 --> 00:20:12,530 you know, whilst treating the patients, it's it's really nice, you know, individual level. 194 00:20:13,070 --> 00:20:19,220 But then if you take it to another level, then you got sort of research that you can do in terms of vaccines, 195 00:20:20,060 --> 00:20:26,750 diagnostics and these will, you know, improve patients health basically on a population level. 196 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:34,100 So those are two layer of things that you can do. And I think I think that was yeah, that that's why I think I still do. 197 00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:41,360 So you feel the research that you do feeds into your practical work on a kind of broader scale in the sense of it. 198 00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:45,799 It sounds like the sort of inspires you to, to keep going. Yes, exactly. 199 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,070 Exactly. Absolutely. I think they all fit in really well together. 200 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,850 Yeah. Because to keep them motivating you inspire you to do more. 201 00:20:53,030 --> 00:20:56,510 Yeah. Yes. And what do you do when you're not working? 202 00:20:57,260 --> 00:21:01,220 Uh. Oh, it's a good question. 203 00:21:01,970 --> 00:21:05,750 Um, I think I'm probably always doing something. 204 00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:15,560 Yeah. So if I'm not working, then I am probably spending time with my family or public spending time with my daughter. 205 00:21:16,260 --> 00:21:21,889 Um, I used to play a lot of sports. I must say, of the last five years. 206 00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:26,000 I don't think I used to play university. Something's got to give. 207 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,480 Something. Yeah, exactly. Basketball. Football. Every week? Yes. 208 00:21:29,870 --> 00:21:35,120 No. So that that's gone? Yeah, But hopefully one day I'll be able to restart. 209 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:41,120 Yes. Yeah, fair enough. And how does your experience here at Oxford compare? 210 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:45,860 Is your experience the experiences of other UK academic institutions? 211 00:21:45,950 --> 00:21:48,980 Oh, yes. Kind of socially, socially and also academically. Yes. 212 00:21:49,370 --> 00:21:52,849 Obviously I've been. I've studied in London and then in Nottingham. 213 00:21:52,850 --> 00:21:58,790 Now in Oxford. I think in terms of academically. 214 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:05,449 Oxford is, you know, a really nice place for those doctors who want to do research. 215 00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:11,629 I think this is a sort of perfect environment for those people because traditionally Oxford has been really, 216 00:22:11,630 --> 00:22:19,760 really good and in sort of medical research, particularly vaccines and, and diagnostics. 217 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:27,590 And as you've seen during the pandemic, you know, Oxford Oxford has been sort of forefront of all this vaccine development. 218 00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:39,940 So and there are a lot not just, you know, one or two, but are many, many clinical academics who are working as doctors, but also doing. 219 00:22:40,370 --> 00:22:48,980 Heavily involved in the research. So doing, you know, some of the things I'm doing and that's you know, you've got so much support. 220 00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:56,510 Oh, you know who you know who so many people we, you know, good professors who can advise you how to progress and how to, 221 00:22:57,860 --> 00:23:01,700 you know, balance all these things so that all people who've done it already. 222 00:23:02,090 --> 00:23:08,899 But this was not the case. It wasn't so common in in Nottingham, for example, there are some professors who do that, 223 00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:14,450 but then predominantly they are clinicians who see patients on a daily basis. 224 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:22,340 But here it's a lot more common to see sort of consultants doing, you know, research. 225 00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:32,300 And I know my one of my mentor for so many welcome fellowships, A he I think he's 80 some nearly 70 years or some 70 over 70 years old. 226 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,590 And he's really, really well known physician and a scientist. 227 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:46,730 But he he does sort of 11 months of research, but he still does one month a year, and he works as a consulting job to keep the clinical work. 228 00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:53,210 And probably he's giving it for the same reason as I as I am, I think. 229 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,760 And and it's, you know, keeps you motivated and inspired and also interested as well. 230 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,120 Yeah. So I can imagine. Yeah. So you have lots of people like that. 231 00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:10,100 I'm interested also, especially in Oxford, what your experience of pressure and expectation is. 232 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,570 I think this is something that really comes up a lot whenever I speak to people during the research here. 233 00:24:15,470 --> 00:24:22,820 How does that feel for you? What's your experience of that? Um. Pressure from just other people. 234 00:24:22,820 --> 00:24:26,870 Kind of Oxford. Oh, right. You know, the pressure of the Oxford bubble. 235 00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:33,470 So there's pressure internally and then there's also pressure externally of the the expectations that get built up. 236 00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:36,310 You know, when people know that you're doing your research here, 237 00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:42,020 that might be expectation and pressure from family and friends or from other professional opportunities. 238 00:24:42,020 --> 00:24:47,870 You know, there's a temptation to say yes to everything because there's so many opportunities that you got from being here. 239 00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:51,050 Yes. Now, I know this well, a really nice question, actually. 240 00:24:52,550 --> 00:25:00,110 So if I if I think back to sort of how I started my dphil that ended on 16. 241 00:25:00,860 --> 00:25:08,659 Initially, I my project was to do a structural studies looking at some of the emerging viruses at that time. 242 00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:14,030 So Zika and chicken Guinier, which are sort of very topical, they're very neglected. 243 00:25:14,510 --> 00:25:16,240 I don't think people have heard of it so much. 244 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:25,580 But then whilst through a collaboration, I came across another, you know, we were collaborating with another Professor, Cole Artilleries, 245 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:37,130 and he was working on the vaccines for these viruses and whilst working on them with him, I got really interested in vaccines then from in. 246 00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:42,590 Secondly, I actually changed my direction of Dphil and, you know, follow my passion back to, 247 00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:46,940 to, to change my topic, to sort of work on a vaccine more than the structural. 248 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,190 Of course, you know, there's multiple different things that, you know, you need to think about. 249 00:25:52,190 --> 00:26:01,249 I like to supervisors have to be happy but luckily you had in Thomas so they they were my team of supervisors and they were, 250 00:26:01,250 --> 00:26:09,379 you know, happily supportive. And then that's why I went on to work on vaccines and diagnostics and that that sort 251 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:15,620 of gave me a chance to collaborate with a lot of the groups from all over the world. 252 00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:21,520 So, you know, from Mexico, because I. Supervisor was from Mexico originally. 253 00:26:22,150 --> 00:26:26,620 Brazil. Africa. Highlands, of course. 254 00:26:26,620 --> 00:26:39,069 UK. And I think through this collaborative work I was very fortunate to know and my team, for one, we we do well basically not because I was, 255 00:26:39,070 --> 00:26:45,550 you know, exceptionally better than anyone else, but because of this, you know, whole sort of collaborative work and of teamwork. 256 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:55,210 And I was at the end of my on this show, I was selected as the best Ph.D. student in Department Medicine. 257 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:05,860 And shortly after Dphil, I got my own sort of welcome fellowship to become independent sort of researcher. 258 00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:09,820 Mm hmm. And then, yeah, things followed. 259 00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:14,740 And then I won several sort of grants as a P.I. 260 00:27:14,890 --> 00:27:18,890 Mm hmm. And, yeah, that that led me to, you know, why. 261 00:27:19,210 --> 00:27:24,410 But I think. I think what's important is, you know, you enjoy what you do. 262 00:27:24,430 --> 00:27:29,800 I mean, there's. And also, you work at a team with lots of other people because it's. 263 00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:37,049 Even if you try really hard. I think when you're on your own, I think it's there's a limitation to how much you can do if you, 264 00:27:37,050 --> 00:27:41,930 you know, and only if you realise that and you work with other people. 265 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:49,110 I think that, you know, that's quite the key in in science and in research and I think that's. 266 00:27:50,290 --> 00:27:54,480 Maybe because I did. I worked as a doctor before I did it. 267 00:27:54,490 --> 00:27:59,560 You feel maybe that helped me to work as a team, you know, to support each other. 268 00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:03,880 I'm sure that support really helps alleviate the pressure. 269 00:28:03,910 --> 00:28:08,560 Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people in your position feel. Yes, I think that I think that's one of the thing. 270 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,819 Whereas if you came straight from undergrad to to a teacher, 271 00:28:12,820 --> 00:28:19,540 then you might be under a lot of pressure to show to somebody that, you know, I'm doing really well. 272 00:28:19,540 --> 00:28:26,590 But but I don't think that was the purpose, because if it was, I don't think I would've taken six months maternity leave in my third year of. 273 00:28:27,370 --> 00:28:33,190 Which is most crucial time. So I so I sound very intrinsically motivated. 274 00:28:34,220 --> 00:28:41,200 I guess that's a good thing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's I think yeah, I think that that's the key message for many of that. 275 00:28:41,950 --> 00:28:47,439 You know. Do you feel students in most and who who's doing you know who's probably thinking that I 276 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,600 need to show and he did really well and you know I show that I'm doing doing really well. 277 00:28:52,840 --> 00:29:03,790 I think it's the key is that to sort of really enjoy what you're doing and do what you like and, you know, see where it takes you, basically. 278 00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:07,790 Yeah. You always make it sound easy. I know that It is easy. 279 00:29:07,790 --> 00:29:12,730 Very smooth. Yeah, exactly. Um, and what do you think is next for you? 280 00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:19,660 Um, for the time being, I think my, my pathways that I'll just continue on in doing. 281 00:29:20,050 --> 00:29:29,490 Um, yeah, once my wife Donna, finishes her Ph.D., then, you know, we'll see how it goes. 282 00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:36,610 My my daughter is going to start school as well in September, so that's that added extra things to think about. 283 00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:44,649 But for now, I think I would I'm very happy in Oxford and, you know, I'll try and settle in Oxford and uh, 284 00:29:44,650 --> 00:29:50,230 yeah, I'll be hopefully ready to sort of get promoted to a professor soon. 285 00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:59,020 Yeah. So that's the next step. But if for any reason, if my wife wants to get a job elsewhere or, you know, 286 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,690 if there's any reason, then you know about my family moving away from Oxford. 287 00:30:04,690 --> 00:30:08,170 It is. It's good. Then, of course, I'll think about that as well, because. 288 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:14,410 Yeah. Yeah. It's a again, as I said, it's a teamwork and you know, you've got to work as a team. 289 00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:17,800 Mhm. Yeah. Like a family. It's like a team so. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 290 00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:24,130 So yeah. I'll just see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. I'll try to be more flexible not, not just very rigid and. 291 00:30:24,190 --> 00:30:27,390 Yeah. Yeah. And flexible. That's a very exciting thing for you. Yes. 292 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,640 It's good luck. Thank you. And thank you so much for coming on the program. 293 00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:33,370 Thank you. Thank you so much for having me as a of course.