Hello and welcome to Pivot Points. This is the podcast about the pivotal moments that have shaped our academic, professional and personal lives.
I'm Sam Cooke, your head of communications at Wilson College. And I'm all about creating ways for you to share your stories like this podcast.
Dr. Yang Chan Kim is a Sir Henry welcome fellow here at Wolfson.
He's also. And get ready for this. A junior research fellow, a senior post-doctoral researcher, a lecturer in clinical medicine.
An NHS doctor at the John Radcliffe. A father and a husband.
He speaks with equal joy and humility about all of his roles and somehow makes it all sound doable.
For anyone finding the balance between family, academic and professional life.
This one's for you. Firstly, thanks for having me.
So my name is Young. I'm a junior research fellow Northern College. Thank you for being.
Yeah, Nice. My pleasure. Firstly, I would like to thank Austin College for supporting me and my family for last two years.
You guys have provided me with such a wonderful environment for academic people, so I'm doing sort of, you know, research.
My wife is also doing PhD, so and also to have a young family, we feel really well supported.
We live in a college as well. So I think I think it's a really wonderful job that you guys are doing.
So I just want to say thank you. That's nice. Yeah. I didn't realise your wife is also doing this because she is as well.
Yes. So, yeah, just a bit of introduction, background basically.
And just to give a context to what these people two point would mean in my life.
So I thought I'm very fortunate to have sort of multiple roles that keep me very busy,
but at the same time I'm quite excited and into being able to do all these things.
So firstly, I'm sorry, and you're welcome, fellow in the Department of Medicine and I'm a senior researcher at Oxford Vaccine Group,
and my research is to focus on developing new vaccines and diagnostics against pathogens,
particularly ones that are more sort of neglected or prominent in developing countries.
So sort of a poor countries. I'm a lecturer in medicine in some of the college,
so I'm teaching sort of various topics in infectious diseases and microbiology to people, including clinical medical students.
And I also work in jail as a doctor in acute medicine.
So to keep my clinical skills and clinical work going.
But most importantly, I'm a parent of a total year who's three years old.
And I must say, looking after probably takes most lots of time and energy and harvest as well.
Yes. And my wife, Tanya, she's doing a Ph.D. in history of design at Royal College of Arts.
So for our family, I think sort of time management and teamwork is sort of the key.
And of course, as with so many other families, it's sometimes quite a find.
Your balance is quite stressful. Could be hard.
One thing I think we all get, you know, going through this quite okay, I can imagine.
Yes, it's a lot to manage on one plate. Yes.
So let's dive straight into that, actually. So that kind of comes to you to your third pivot point a little bit so we can just jump through this.
Yeah. Yeah. Which is about about your family.
So one of my questions really was how do you how do you manage that on a day to day basis, like you and your wife and your daughter?
How do you manage that as two individuals wanting to pursue your own passions, your own careers, and have a family?
Yes. How do you make time for that? Okay.
So essentially, my family was formed during my PhD, so I we went through basically a marriage childbirth pandemic.
So I meet my wife at sort of towards the end of my first year of the field in 2016.
And sort of she was at that point doing a masters degree in Southampton University.
And then we got married one year later in 2017 and she started a PhD in September 1803, interestingly, in the first month of teaching.
So she went to have this completely unrelated ultrasound for something else.
And then we found out that she was five weeks pregnant. So normally you don't you don't find out until later.
So we found out that she was pregnant at five weeks, which was very unexpected, is a great news.
But at the same time, I remember,
like I was really worrying about like what's going to happen to us now because she was just starting a Ph.D. and very passionate.
So I remember we were spending a lot of time together, like working really hard,
as hard as we can for that eight month period to get as much work going as possible.
So that that I think was quite interesting, period. Yeah.
One of the other sort of funny episode that we had was I wouldn't count.
I was a 36 weeks old.
So, you know, you go for routine ultrasounds and they there were the doctors that were telling us that it was very small, too small.
And she could she's potentially having sort of a growth restriction inside the uterus, not getting enough nutrients.
So then they said, oh, now we need to induce her to come out.
These could take her out. Yes, I remember us the day next day was Danny's birthday.
So we said, oh, can we induce a day after her birthday so we can have a celebration?
Yes. So we induced we celebrated her birthday without a health.
One last time and the next that we we induced.
She we went for induction and the was born on the day after because he took almost 20 something hours to get the induction done.
Yeah. So. So that was sort of quite interesting but it's quite funny how you know that.
But it could have been sort of saying, well yeah, it could have been same if we didn't ask.
So that that's kind of Yeah. What it was and. I think I think, you know,
when I think having a family is great and one of the best decisions are made for my family was that I was in my third
year of so finishing third year of my dphil and but we didn't really have a family in the UK that could sort of help us.
So I took six months paternity leave, so I took a six month paternity leave to look after full time childcare for a year.
Well, partly because we didn't have support, but also I wanted because I was getting towards my dphil,
I wanted Donna to recover quickly and so that she can go back to a PhD, basically because she couldn't have she couldn't really start properly.
So, so that that involved sort of, you know, everything, basically nappy change,
preparing bottle meals, putting Leah to sleep during the day and night.
So I did all of those for six months. Amazing. And Donna didn't have to do any of this the first six months at all.
So I think I'm quite proud of that. And she really had some good records. Yes.
Yes. And luckily, yeah, of course, she works really hard, too.
And then she managed to sort of get back on track with her students progressing.
Well, that's amazing. Yes.
I mean, but, you know, so you really kind of make space for each other, I think sometimes for each other's academic pursuits.
I think I think this is the key. Okay. I'm normally very quiet and also very focussed on what I want to achieve.
But by having a family, then you you learn how to, you know, make time for your partner,
both for your child and sometimes some people or sometimes you think that, oh, you know,
I'm spending maybe too much time there, but you actually learn that you can sort of manage your time more efficiently and at the same time,
sort of it definitely gives you a sort of more purposeful life, I would say.
So for me, having family was a you know, it has been great, actually.
Can you talk me through a day in the life of your family?
Oh, so so Donna basically had submission that line, and it's because they have an exam every year.
Yeah. So she's, you know, in her now she's doing part time.
So she's in her fourth year and she had to submit a thesis so she would so not this is a chapter of a thesis for her like examination.
So then she would, she would do that and I would drop Leah off at the nursery and she's just you just all day.
I don't think she even goes out that much in the room, you know, really focussed.
Right. So things. And when we come home, I'd be sorry to say I sometimes go to the lab or I sometimes work from home or I sometimes go to hospital,
the fairies, but I normally go and pick up Leah as well.
So I think I've been doing that for the last four, three years.
So I've been the main person to, you know, do a school run. And when we come home, then, you know, she would once, once at a five,
she sort of finishes her work and then she spends time with the family, basically.
And then she cooks, she does all the house chores.
And then like in the evening, I think it it's more sort of varied.
But then she gives it gives me time to do other things that I can do during the day.
Or if sometimes I do work at night, like in hospital, then I will go and she will obviously look after her.
So it varies a lot depending on who has a priority as and who has a deadline.
So yeah, until last week she she had a lot of priority, you know, and in that one month period and I would just,
you know, even on the weekends I would take Leah out myself phone so that she can work as well.
Yeah. But not now When she's finished then, then it's like we take turns.
Yeah. So you just make time depending on what the priority is.
Exactly. And so you mentioned that you feel very well supported and comfortable here at Wolfson especially.
What do you do to spend time together at Wolfson or kind of in the surrounding areas in Oxford?
Yeah, we spend time. Yeah. So, I mean, I've looked at, you know, a couple of the colleges.
I was in some of the college for Dphil, but I remember, you know,
sometimes if I go because it's an undergraduate graduate college and they aren't that many students with a family bursary.
So and if you go that with a pushchair that they haven't even got a lift to go up the stairs for example.
So but whereas in Oxford you've got so many families living in college and so many fellows who lives in college as well,
and they've got there's a family society, there's a playroom, so we sometimes go and spend time there.
There's a punting that is just here as well. And so we would go for painting.
It is a playground as well. So, I mean, I don't think you get this in other colleges.
Yeah, I think so. And because we live in college, I mean, you know, if I wanted to go to the library to work for one 2 hours, I don't have to go.
I just go to the library more and save for dinner. And, you know, there's a dining hall most of the time as well.
So she struggling to cook, find time to cook. Then we can just pick up food from there and eat.
And I think it's a perfect environment for an academic person and, you know, to focus and study all the focus of your research, basically.
So. Well, that's really great. So just going back to your to your research and also your professional work as a doctor,
I'm interested in why you chose to, uh, to pursue academic research alongside working as a doctor.
Why, why did you feel you wanted to do both? Yes. Yeah.
So I think it comes back to my first pivot moment.
So that would be so the decision to come to the UK to study in 2005.
Mm hmm. So that's already 18 years ago. And where were you living before?
I was. I was in South Korea originally, but I've been living in the UK.
Fox News 18. Yes. So now completely. It has to be as a British amount, it does feel like home.
Yeah. So I find a bit more strange when I go to South Korea.
So I get I definitely feel more home in the UK now.
So that, that and alongside, you know, I've had sort of various time stages at which I could have made a different decisions.
But it sort of I, you know, went along with what I really wanted to do and I didn't really sort of listen to,
you know, what other people are suggesting. And of course, there were some really good advice there.
But I think I really followed what I wanted to, although so essentially, I came in 2005,
studied an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, so sort of in a very that gave me really broad understanding of science.
And um, you know,
I remember like back then it's a long time ago that I remember back then I found it quite difficult to settle into the UK because it was first time
coming to the UK to study and which is why I can sort of definitely relate to some of the international students who come from abroad to sit in,
you know, Oxford and also in college for the very first time.
Um, and so I'm also a college advisor for, for students.
So this is job number. Yes. Which I didn't mention that is just for listeners.
I was checking out your LinkedIn profile out here and there are five active presently presently active job.
So yes, I was very impressed. So so yeah some of them, they've they're from abroad and I know some of them, they came to the UK for first time.
So then I sometimes I try to help and support them as much as I can, you know, so that that's another thing because I understand how, you know,
how they can be from abroad because, you know, not just academically but you know, culturally and such and settling in, especially for family.
I think all the other things know, you have to know like school and other things.
So let's talk about that. What was your what was your experience when you first came here?
How did you find that the process of settling and, um, I mean,
for me it might be a bit different to families coming into schools and to study because I've been to Oxford,
to study because I was only 18, 19 at that time.
So I guess I didn't. And you came to Oxford when you're 18?
Oh, I went to Imperial College London to do an undergraduate degree.
But luckily I think my class are quite, quite diverse.
So there were quite a lot of students from abroad who came to the UK to study.
So I made lots of friends there and you know, they were very helpful and my brother came as well to study.
So he was studying sort of microbiology, something related.
So then that was really helpful too. Yeah, Yeah. So I think having a, you know, friends or family at that time was helpful because,
you know, academically, I mean, you know, everyone's working really hard studying radio.
And so of course that that's okay. But settling into a new culture is always a bit of a challenge, I think.
Yeah. And was there ever a time where you were interested in pursuing a different subject area?
Were you always interested in medicine and biology? I think so, because I did A-levels as well.
So then you kind of specialise into certain areas, so and during biochemistry degree I because I for my A-levels I did five subjects actually.
So you could have been engineering for example, or some maths or something, it could be something else.
But I remember in my third year of biochemistry degree because many of my friends didn't really do for the matter of months or physics in A-level.
That was my technology module, so like engineering module.
And I thought, okay, so having the all that and I did it really well.
So I thought, okay, let's take this module because, you know, I'm sure I'll have sort of advantage of that.
But I found it really, really difficult because what you're learning and then now university, I think there's a big gap.
Yeah. Yeah. Because Yeah. So then I realised, okay, so engineering subjects are not for me.
I have to do like medicine or biochemistry sort of that side of things.
And also during my undergrad degree I did a lot of volunteering work actually in Africa,
India and Greece, sort of, you know, for refugees and poor children.
And, and also my, my, my, my parents and my dad is also sort of a medical doctor and also a scientist in infectious diseases.
So I think naturally, I, you know, seeing the all the health disparity that you have,
you know, when you go to all these voluntary work plus, you know, you know,
my background of my parents being a doctor and seeing from early on when when
he went when he used to take us to all some of the volunteering work as well.
So then seeing all this made me think, okay, I want to do medicine.
And, you know, hopefully one day I'll be able to contribute to sort of improving this health disparity.
Um, and now you're, you're on the frontlines again, but in a different context as an NHS doctor.
So how does that compare? I think I think this is, it's really relevant to the to do both.
It's hard to do both very well, but then I think it's really good that I'm doing it.
So I went to study medicine after my undergrad degree at Nottingham University and from 2013 I sort of.
Start started to work as a as a doctor, an NHS, doing a foundation training in Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham.
So then like that, that really gave me, I say, you know, really improved me as a person and also, you know.
Okay, give me all these key qualities, I would say, because, you know, working as a doctor in NHS, it's, you know, yeah, it's not very easy.
But then at the same time, you know, when you treat the patients and then they get better with your treatment, it's really rewarding.
But then at the same time you have a lot of responsibility and you know you
are seeing the patients and you try to be as nicely nice to them as possible,
you know, try to listen to them and, you know, treat them, you know, keep, you know, as much as you can.
Although, you know, when you're on call, it's really, really difficult because you lost so many patients on the ward, so say on weekends or nights.
But that that sort of gave me, you know, taught me a lot of qualities that would say to be more patient,
be a good listener, um, sort of, you know, perseverance, persevere, basically.
And also it gave me sort of importance of, you know, translational research that, you know,
could impact or it could contribute to improving patients health in a much larger scale.
So that that really gave me that idea. And that's also one of the reason why I still try to go and work as a doctor, because it reminds me that,
you know, whilst treating the patients, it's it's really nice, you know, individual level.
But then if you take it to another level, then you got sort of research that you can do in terms of vaccines,
diagnostics and these will, you know, improve patients health basically on a population level.
So those are two layer of things that you can do. And I think I think that was yeah, that that's why I think I still do.
So you feel the research that you do feeds into your practical work on a kind of broader scale in the sense of it.
It sounds like the sort of inspires you to, to keep going. Yes, exactly.
Exactly. Absolutely. I think they all fit in really well together.
Yeah. Because to keep them motivating you inspire you to do more.
Yeah. Yes. And what do you do when you're not working?
Uh. Oh, it's a good question.
Um, I think I'm probably always doing something.
Yeah. So if I'm not working, then I am probably spending time with my family or public spending time with my daughter.
Um, I used to play a lot of sports. I must say, of the last five years.
I don't think I used to play university. Something's got to give.
Something. Yeah, exactly. Basketball. Football. Every week? Yes.
No. So that that's gone? Yeah, But hopefully one day I'll be able to restart.
Yes. Yeah, fair enough. And how does your experience here at Oxford compare?
Is your experience the experiences of other UK academic institutions?
Oh, yes. Kind of socially, socially and also academically. Yes.
Obviously I've been. I've studied in London and then in Nottingham.
Now in Oxford. I think in terms of academically.
Oxford is, you know, a really nice place for those doctors who want to do research.
I think this is a sort of perfect environment for those people because traditionally Oxford has been really,
really good and in sort of medical research, particularly vaccines and, and diagnostics.
And as you've seen during the pandemic, you know, Oxford Oxford has been sort of forefront of all this vaccine development.
So and there are a lot not just, you know, one or two, but are many, many clinical academics who are working as doctors, but also doing.
Heavily involved in the research. So doing, you know, some of the things I'm doing and that's you know, you've got so much support.
Oh, you know who you know who so many people we, you know, good professors who can advise you how to progress and how to,
you know, balance all these things so that all people who've done it already.
But this was not the case. It wasn't so common in in Nottingham, for example, there are some professors who do that,
but then predominantly they are clinicians who see patients on a daily basis.
But here it's a lot more common to see sort of consultants doing, you know, research.
And I know my one of my mentor for so many welcome fellowships, A he I think he's 80 some nearly 70 years or some 70 over 70 years old.
And he's really, really well known physician and a scientist.
But he he does sort of 11 months of research, but he still does one month a year, and he works as a consulting job to keep the clinical work.
And probably he's giving it for the same reason as I as I am, I think.
And and it's, you know, keeps you motivated and inspired and also interested as well.
Yeah. So I can imagine. Yeah. So you have lots of people like that.
I'm interested also, especially in Oxford, what your experience of pressure and expectation is.
I think this is something that really comes up a lot whenever I speak to people during the research here.
How does that feel for you? What's your experience of that? Um. Pressure from just other people.
Kind of Oxford. Oh, right. You know, the pressure of the Oxford bubble.
So there's pressure internally and then there's also pressure externally of the the expectations that get built up.
You know, when people know that you're doing your research here,
that might be expectation and pressure from family and friends or from other professional opportunities.
You know, there's a temptation to say yes to everything because there's so many opportunities that you got from being here.
Yes. Now, I know this well, a really nice question, actually.
So if I if I think back to sort of how I started my dphil that ended on 16.
Initially, I my project was to do a structural studies looking at some of the emerging viruses at that time.
So Zika and chicken Guinier, which are sort of very topical, they're very neglected.
I don't think people have heard of it so much.
But then whilst through a collaboration, I came across another, you know, we were collaborating with another Professor, Cole Artilleries,
and he was working on the vaccines for these viruses and whilst working on them with him, I got really interested in vaccines then from in.
Secondly, I actually changed my direction of Dphil and, you know, follow my passion back to,
to, to change my topic, to sort of work on a vaccine more than the structural.
Of course, you know, there's multiple different things that, you know, you need to think about.
I like to supervisors have to be happy but luckily you had in Thomas so they they were my team of supervisors and they were,
you know, happily supportive. And then that's why I went on to work on vaccines and diagnostics and that that sort
of gave me a chance to collaborate with a lot of the groups from all over the world.
So, you know, from Mexico, because I. Supervisor was from Mexico originally.
Brazil. Africa. Highlands, of course.
UK. And I think through this collaborative work I was very fortunate to know and my team, for one, we we do well basically not because I was,
you know, exceptionally better than anyone else, but because of this, you know, whole sort of collaborative work and of teamwork.
And I was at the end of my on this show, I was selected as the best Ph.D. student in Department Medicine.
And shortly after Dphil, I got my own sort of welcome fellowship to become independent sort of researcher.
Mm hmm. And then, yeah, things followed.
And then I won several sort of grants as a P.I.
Mm hmm. And, yeah, that that led me to, you know, why.
But I think. I think what's important is, you know, you enjoy what you do.
I mean, there's. And also, you work at a team with lots of other people because it's.
Even if you try really hard. I think when you're on your own, I think it's there's a limitation to how much you can do if you,
you know, and only if you realise that and you work with other people.
I think that, you know, that's quite the key in in science and in research and I think that's.
Maybe because I did. I worked as a doctor before I did it.
You feel maybe that helped me to work as a team, you know, to support each other.
I'm sure that support really helps alleviate the pressure.
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people in your position feel. Yes, I think that I think that's one of the thing.
Whereas if you came straight from undergrad to to a teacher,
then you might be under a lot of pressure to show to somebody that, you know, I'm doing really well.
But but I don't think that was the purpose, because if it was, I don't think I would've taken six months maternity leave in my third year of.
Which is most crucial time. So I so I sound very intrinsically motivated.
I guess that's a good thing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's I think yeah, I think that that's the key message for many of that.
You know. Do you feel students in most and who who's doing you know who's probably thinking that I
need to show and he did really well and you know I show that I'm doing doing really well.
I think it's the key is that to sort of really enjoy what you're doing and do what you like and, you know, see where it takes you, basically.
Yeah. You always make it sound easy. I know that It is easy.
Very smooth. Yeah, exactly. Um, and what do you think is next for you?
Um, for the time being, I think my, my pathways that I'll just continue on in doing.
Um, yeah, once my wife Donna, finishes her Ph.D., then, you know, we'll see how it goes.
My my daughter is going to start school as well in September, so that's that added extra things to think about.
But for now, I think I would I'm very happy in Oxford and, you know, I'll try and settle in Oxford and uh,
yeah, I'll be hopefully ready to sort of get promoted to a professor soon.
Yeah. So that's the next step. But if for any reason, if my wife wants to get a job elsewhere or, you know,
if there's any reason, then you know about my family moving away from Oxford.
It is. It's good. Then, of course, I'll think about that as well, because.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a again, as I said, it's a teamwork and you know, you've got to work as a team.
Mhm. Yeah. Like a family. It's like a team so. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
So yeah. I'll just see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. I'll try to be more flexible not, not just very rigid and.
Yeah. Yeah. And flexible. That's a very exciting thing for you. Yes.
It's good luck. Thank you. And thank you so much for coming on the program.
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me as a of course.