1 00:00:04,190 --> 00:00:07,360 Hello everyone. Welcome to this week's Prof. 2 00:00:07,370 --> 00:00:18,800 Cost. I'm delighted to welcome Professor Christopher Reid, who is the terror foundation visiting professor of American art here at Worcester. 3 00:00:18,890 --> 00:00:29,629 Chris, welcome. Thank you. I'm keen to interview Chris this week to find out more about what he's doing as the visiting professor of American art, 4 00:00:29,630 --> 00:00:36,380 but also because he's going to tell us about an event which is taking place in Worcester. 5 00:00:36,740 --> 00:00:47,050 But let's start with Chris's background. Chris, you are a distinguished professor of English and visual culture at Penn State, don't you? 6 00:00:47,150 --> 00:00:54,020 That's exactly right. And tell us what the focus of your own work in research is at Penn. 7 00:00:54,110 --> 00:01:03,799 The the focus of my work has always been on big ideas, modernism, text and image, novels, plays, things that you see, 8 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:10,580 things that you read, how you imagine visual images when you're reading, how things are illustrated. 9 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:18,860 So I think exciting ideas around around the experiences that people can have with art and literature. 10 00:01:19,250 --> 00:01:21,270 So I'm very excited to be here. 11 00:01:21,290 --> 00:01:29,120 I'm affiliated, as you know, I'm a fellow of Worcester College, so we're having some events here this term and next term, 12 00:01:29,390 --> 00:01:34,070 and I'm really excited to share those events with the community here and particularly with the students. 13 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:41,989 So I definitely hope people will come along. Let's come back to what the event is and the study day in a second. 14 00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:46,190 But before we do that, I'm really keen that people understand a little bit more about your background. 15 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:51,110 You're being very modest. You've published a lot in relation to the work that you've done. 16 00:01:51,140 --> 00:01:53,150 Tell us a little bit about your publications. 17 00:01:53,390 --> 00:02:00,340 Well, I began by studying the Bloomsbury group, which people have probably heard of, Virginia Woolf and Vanessa Bell and Duncan Grant. 18 00:02:00,650 --> 00:02:03,979 Yes, the artists, colleagues and the other writers of the group. 19 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:11,270 And what I was particularly interested in was the way that they created domestic spaces as spaces in which to be modern people, 20 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:18,290 so that when anyone walked into the room, including themselves, they felt like they were walking into a matisse. 21 00:02:18,620 --> 00:02:27,950 This was not the Victorian era anymore. And, you know, so it becomes a kind of holistic way of being in the world again through word and image. 22 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,500 And so that was a way of kind of imagining your identity in visual terms. 23 00:02:33,950 --> 00:02:44,660 And I got interested in the way other groups of Europeans and Americans imagined their identity in terms of exotic aesthetics. 24 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:51,230 And I focussed on Japan in particular, so what I called Japan ism that the French called Japanese for. 25 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:57,200 But since I call it Japanese, but when it's French people, it was English people or American people, 26 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:06,170 I call it Japan ism and sort of so using kind of fantasies of Japan to allow for new ways of being in the West. 27 00:03:06,330 --> 00:03:13,370 Now, because I'm interested in, in the whole Bloomsbury thing, A why as an American you were interested in be you know, 28 00:03:13,370 --> 00:03:18,019 they were a very privileged group of people who were able to be artists. 29 00:03:18,020 --> 00:03:23,750 And whether in your view, they succeeded in doing, you know, what you were describing. 30 00:03:23,810 --> 00:03:31,490 Well, they definitely succeeded in creating a subculture that was very interesting and attractive to lots of other people. 31 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:39,049 I mean, the sort of ironic thing is that they I mean, you're right, they came from I mean, not super affluent families. 32 00:03:39,050 --> 00:03:43,310 None of them was aristocratic. None of them inherited big gobs of money. 33 00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:51,860 They came from sort of upper middle class families. And really, they're the last group that exists outside an academic structure. 34 00:03:52,130 --> 00:03:57,290 But the people in the groups that John Maynard Keynes is an economist and strictly as a historian, 35 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,820 there were the painters like and graffiti, the architects, Clive Bell, Roger Fry. 36 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,170 So they're doing the kinds of things that people do in colleges and universities, 37 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:14,630 and they kind of forged a path on their own doing that outside of any particular academic structure. 38 00:04:14,810 --> 00:04:20,550 And that gave them certain kinds of freedom that I think maybe academics today are sort of jealous of. 39 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:28,430 But it's very much a kind of a prototype for what students do when they come to university. 40 00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:32,120 And many of them had gone to the other university, the one east of here. 41 00:04:32,330 --> 00:04:35,809 So that's sort of the that became a model. 42 00:04:35,810 --> 00:04:39,139 But then it was a model that they expanded to relationships with other people, 43 00:04:39,140 --> 00:04:44,390 particularly to the women in the group and to people like Duncan Grant, who hadn't gone to university yet. 44 00:04:45,050 --> 00:04:50,630 So I think it's particularly pertinent and relevant to academics to kind of 45 00:04:51,050 --> 00:04:57,620 study this this model of how to integrate economics with art or literature, 46 00:04:57,620 --> 00:05:00,950 with economics and history, with modernist aesthetics. 47 00:05:01,010 --> 00:05:06,280 And as an American, why were you interested? In that? Well, I don't know that I was interested in it as an American. 48 00:05:07,630 --> 00:05:15,520 I am American and I got interested in it. And Americans, you know, have long been interested in the Bloomsbury group. 49 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,509 I mean, Virginia Woolf was a huge hit as an author in the United States. 50 00:05:19,510 --> 00:05:24,130 John Maynard Keynes is often referred to as kind of, you know, the father of the New Deal. 51 00:05:24,340 --> 00:05:27,880 You know, I certainly wasn't the person who brought them no group to America. 52 00:05:28,090 --> 00:05:34,629 I did actually interview somebody in the Oxford Literary Festival, Rebecca Burrell, who was writing about similar things, 53 00:05:34,630 --> 00:05:45,910 particularly creative spaces that were opened up to women by Bloomsbury and the relationships that previously women had queer relationships, 54 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:55,990 relationships where marriages had broken down and there was a kind of freedom for women not just to parent children, but also to be artists. 55 00:05:56,170 --> 00:06:03,280 You asked me earlier how I was interested in Bloomsbury as an American, and I sort of said I wasn't interested as an American, 56 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:09,520 but I would definitely say I was interested in Bloomsbury as at the time a gay man before we said queer. 57 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:16,899 Now I would say it was a very queer interest in Bloomsbury and I've certainly written a lot about the queerness of Bloomsbury and on those 58 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:26,140 kinds of themes about how they really pioneered certain kinds of subculture that became very empowering and interesting to people later. 59 00:06:26,390 --> 00:06:30,760 One of the projects that I did was an exhibition, Bloomsbury Art in America, 60 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:38,980 and so I looked at who had purchased Bloomsbury Art over the years and made collections in the United States. 61 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,680 Interestingly, the economists had the most art because they have more money. 62 00:06:45,070 --> 00:06:50,080 So people who were fans of John Maynard Keynes, but feminists, you know, 63 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:57,459 lots and lots of feminists had kind of pinched pennies and saved money to come to England and buy some paintings. 64 00:06:57,460 --> 00:07:05,800 And and it was really interesting talking particularly to women who had sort of come of age as feminists in the seventies about how 65 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:14,260 important the example of Virginia Woolf and Vanessa Bell was to them in developing their own thinking about sort of how to be in the world. 66 00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:22,040 Yeah, yeah. Excellent. Tell us about being the Terra Foundation visiting professor here in Oxford. 67 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,750 To start off with the Terra Foundation, who are they? 68 00:07:25,930 --> 00:07:34,569 The Terror Foundation is based in Chicago, Illinois, and their mission is to promote the appreciation of American art. 69 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:43,780 They have a big American art collection, which was collected by Daniel Tara, the person for whom the foundation is named and who began it. 70 00:07:44,170 --> 00:07:47,590 That's on long term loan to the Art Institute. 71 00:07:47,590 --> 00:07:52,630 So if you go to the Art Institute of Chicago, many of the American art pieces that you see belong to them, 72 00:07:52,990 --> 00:07:57,580 but they also loan work to other institutions. 73 00:07:57,580 --> 00:08:05,380 There's a group of prints that's on long term loan at the Ashmolean here demonstrating again a range of American artists. 74 00:08:05,770 --> 00:08:12,999 They sponsor exhibitions both in the United States and abroad, and they fund the terror professorship, 75 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:20,020 which is an annual one year position where people get to come to Oxford and teach American art courses, 76 00:08:20,650 --> 00:08:24,010 both on the master's level and for the undergraduate students. 77 00:08:24,310 --> 00:08:33,910 So tell us about your experiences so far this year in relation to your teaching, engaging with students of the history of art departments. 78 00:08:33,910 --> 00:08:39,310 And yes, I've really I've really enjoyed the teaching, tremendously enjoyed the teaching. 79 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:51,460 My students are amazing. I have had the master's group in a course on American capitalism, so they're now writing all sorts of interesting papers. 80 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,040 And then next semester in the Trinity, we call them we call them semesters in the New World. 81 00:08:58,090 --> 00:08:59,860 Next term. In the Trinity term, 82 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:10,870 I'll be teaching a an undergraduate American art history survey with a focus on sort of diversity and debate about what American identity is. 83 00:09:11,470 --> 00:09:15,340 So I'm looking forward to that. And then in addition to that, you have your lecture series. 84 00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:23,500 Yes, there's a lecture series also in the Trinity term for link to lectures, talking about, again, sort of ideas about American Japanese ism. 85 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:30,190 I'll be looking particularly at the reception of Japanese art because the talks are meant to be linked. 86 00:09:30,190 --> 00:09:31,839 It'll take a kind of historical, 87 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:40,690 chronological approach where I'll look at the first big collections of Japanese art at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston and at the Freer Gallery, 88 00:09:40,690 --> 00:09:42,520 which is part of the Smithsonian in Washington. 89 00:09:42,970 --> 00:09:53,049 And talk about the very different kind of conceptions of what Japan should mean to America that influence the collection, the display, 90 00:09:53,050 --> 00:09:57,490 the architecture of the buildings in which they're displayed, the layout of the displays, 91 00:09:57,490 --> 00:10:01,360 the kinds of things they showed in the first half of the 20th century. 92 00:10:01,810 --> 00:10:10,889 Then I'll be. Thinking about the immediate post-war period of the 1940s and fifties and sort of efforts to come to 93 00:10:10,890 --> 00:10:18,390 terms with a very different kind of history of the relationship between the Americans and the Japanese, 94 00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:22,980 including the Japanese-Americans who were interned during the war in the United States. 95 00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:27,990 And then I'll be talking about more recent art by Japanese-Americans. 96 00:10:28,740 --> 00:10:35,670 I think running through it is going to be a focus on how art is not only about what it's a picture of. 97 00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:45,240 It's not only about images, but an art object is a physical object with material qualities and a surface and a heft. 98 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,850 So I want people to think about the way that we can relate to objects. 99 00:10:51,270 --> 00:10:57,030 The term I use is kinaesthetic empathy. So kinaesthetic sort of how we move. 100 00:10:57,030 --> 00:11:01,740 And this idea of if the object or a body, how would it move? 101 00:11:01,770 --> 00:11:08,340 How would we relate to it? But really more importantly, how did the artist make the thing that we're seeing? 102 00:11:08,850 --> 00:11:13,650 What what did that gesture feel like? How were those materials used? 103 00:11:13,950 --> 00:11:20,879 And this idea that people can connect to artists, connect to other people, not only by imagery, 104 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:28,560 but through the whole sensorium, how we touch, how we hear, you know, how we how we sense space in the world. 105 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,810 I'm quite interested in the link between what you just been talking about and 106 00:11:33,810 --> 00:11:39,840 the materiality and the senses and how you're building that into your lectures, 107 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:46,950 but also what you're exploring on the study day. Can you tell us where the crossover is and what your focus on Study Day will be? 108 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:48,950 Yeah, I'm looking forward to the Study Day. 109 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:57,480 It's built into the Terra professorship to gather scholars together to talk about a topic of mutual interest. 110 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:07,650 And I tried to cast the net kind of widely, and I hope that this will be a topic that's of interest to lots of people because it does include, 111 00:12:07,860 --> 00:12:11,670 you know, lots of different kind of sensory approaches to art. 112 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,720 So we'll have a session on gesture and trace. 113 00:12:16,050 --> 00:12:25,860 So how are records the kinds of marks that the person making it has made and how those, again, can convey meaning. 114 00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:28,020 Meaning can attract empathy. 115 00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:37,020 There are kind of parallels between, for instance, an artist who makes lots of little dots in a room and sewing or planting or, 116 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,810 you know, other kinds of activities that people do in the world. 117 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:46,470 And I'll be presenting about an American modernists, late 20th century painter named Warren Rau, 118 00:12:46,620 --> 00:12:49,440 whose work was very much engaged with those kinds of issues, 119 00:12:50,100 --> 00:13:00,060 particularly in relation to agricultural rhythms and creating big paintings that seemed to that seemed to respond and embody agricultural rhythms. 120 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:07,800 We'll also be having two talks on the colour blue and what I've done is paired American academics and academics from Oxford. 121 00:13:07,860 --> 00:13:12,690 There are just four, fortunately two people who are working on different aspects of the colour blue. 122 00:13:13,230 --> 00:13:18,480 In some ways, the most provocative session is on visualising the non-visual senses. 123 00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:21,209 So representations of smell like what? 124 00:13:21,210 --> 00:13:30,080 We're visual representations of smell, visual representations of heat, visual representations of the sort of tactility of things. 125 00:13:30,090 --> 00:13:32,310 So I think that will be an interesting session. 126 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:41,519 And then the ASHMOLEAN has been working on a large and COVID delayed exhibition about Victorian colour that will be in the autumn. 127 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:49,980 And so there'll be a roundtable with some of the curators and scholars who've been involved with that to introduce people to the incredible 128 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:58,680 innovations that went on in the 19th century over inventions of different kinds of pigments and kind of what you could do with them. 129 00:13:59,190 --> 00:14:05,729 We'll be contextualising all this by having selected artworks by current Worcester students, 130 00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:10,889 students at the Ruskin who are interested in issues of materiality and kind of what 131 00:14:10,890 --> 00:14:15,840 things are made of and how those materials are held together and relate to each other. 132 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,379 So it'll be a sense around the kind of experience. 133 00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:23,250 Great science. Fantastic. So who should come? Everybody should come. 134 00:14:23,250 --> 00:14:29,040 And you needn't come for the whole thing. It's it's 11 to 5 on Friday, on March 3rd. 135 00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:34,650 And people can feel free to stop in and look at the art talk. 136 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:42,659 Have a biscuit. Go away again. I hope it will be interesting to people here at the college who are around will be 137 00:14:42,660 --> 00:14:47,129 putting posters up so people will be able to see the outline of the day's events. 138 00:14:47,130 --> 00:14:50,790 And I think that's gone out to the college community as well. 139 00:14:51,060 --> 00:14:54,220 So people people have the schedule and plan their day around it. 140 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,270 If people want to find out more, should they come to your lecture series? 141 00:14:57,450 --> 00:15:01,590 I mean, I certainly encourage people to come to the lecture next term. 142 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:08,520 You know, there's so. Many ways to approach this. And that's one of the that's one of the things that I was just sort of hoping to 143 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:13,380 kind of capture that richness in the diversity of things that are on the study day. 144 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,770 I mean, the other reason to have this kind of broad set of topics and lots of things going on at once was, 145 00:15:19,770 --> 00:15:24,780 you know, when I was thinking about it, I was thinking, well, how does a community come back together after COVID? 146 00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:29,340 And this is certainly something that we're thinking about in Pennsylvania and we're thinking about it here. 147 00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:36,929 But, you know, to study this, the last few years have all been virtual and very much kind of scholars from all over the place. 148 00:15:36,930 --> 00:15:40,050 But the locals haven't been particularly involved. 149 00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:43,770 They've really been, you know, sort of team conference call kinds of things. 150 00:15:44,070 --> 00:15:49,050 So I thought, let's just have an event where people can have really interesting conversations. 151 00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:58,830 So I think that's what I would encourage people to do, is kind of come and listen and talk and then, you know, pursue their own, their own interests. 152 00:15:58,830 --> 00:16:05,340 And, you know, they get excited by something that they are seeing by one of the students here. 153 00:16:05,580 --> 00:16:14,219 Can I namecheck this to please do. So Casino Barry and Molly Davidson and Abby Aidoo will be their work will be on display. 154 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:20,220 And Nicole Kingsbury. She's going to write labels and she's an art history student, so she's talking to them. 155 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:28,409 So, you know, I hope I hope it will create local conversation that that helps the students here to well, no one knows what artists do. 156 00:16:28,410 --> 00:16:34,390 So they that helps help us the other students to kind of see the things that the 157 00:16:34,740 --> 00:16:38,660 that the Ruskin students are so passionate about and doing such interesting work. 158 00:16:38,820 --> 00:16:43,889 As, you know, I'm really keen that we enhance the culture that takes place in the college, 159 00:16:43,890 --> 00:16:49,080 that is created in the college, and that people are able to showcase their work. 160 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:57,600 But actually more people engage with what we're doing so that we create the kind of community that supports much more artistic endeavour. 161 00:16:57,810 --> 00:17:03,090 So this is a great thing to do in relation to allowing more people to engage. 162 00:17:03,510 --> 00:17:08,460 For me, it's often about how you encourage people over the threshold so they just have to walk into the library. 163 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:10,350 In this case, they had an excuse. 164 00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:19,800 So Chris, you told us a lot about your lecture series, what it's like being the terror visiting professor and also your study day. 165 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,970 You've been living in Oxford for, what, seven or eight months now. 166 00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:27,900 Tell us what the highlights of living in Oxford have been for you. 167 00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:37,260 My most magical Oxford moment, because it was completely unexpected because I bought a walking guide book to Oxford. 168 00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:46,410 But it doesn't extend beyond the sort of central part of the city or, you know, walked across the Port Meadow and up the Thames. 169 00:17:46,590 --> 00:17:56,050 And when I suddenly came on the ruined Gladstone Abbey, it truly seemed like I had walked into some sort of fantasy film about medieval England. 170 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:59,700 So that was my that was my prototypical Oxford moment. 171 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,230 I mean, I've been tremendously excited about the things that happen at the Ashmolean. 172 00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:11,310 We did a little workshop for the master's students at the Oxford Printmakers Co-operative, 173 00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:16,350 which was wonderful because it really got into this issue of how does an image get made? 174 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:23,249 How do what are the pigments look like? What are the techniques? Something that can look very delicate is actually made, you know, 175 00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:33,960 with lots of dangerous acid and scraping with very sharp things so that those resources have been have been really delightful to discover. 176 00:18:34,110 --> 00:18:41,820 And at the end of the professorship, you go back to the US and you resume your normal, humdrum life. 177 00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:46,739 Yes, no. Yes. You go back to teaching and more research. 178 00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:50,580 And do you have any books, plans arising from anything you've been doing here? 179 00:18:50,820 --> 00:19:01,440 I don't know about books. I'm interested in the sensorial and sort of lots of different ideas about how people approach art. 180 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,409 And in some ways, the idea of a book where you march through from start to finish has started to 181 00:19:07,410 --> 00:19:13,200 seem less interesting to me than other kinds of ways of presenting research. 182 00:19:13,410 --> 00:19:18,780 I worked on a big website about war and or the artist I'll be talking about on March 3rd. 183 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:24,330 So if people are interested in him, there'll be more to find there. And you know, we had poems, we had films. 184 00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:29,100 So poems being read, you could read them and you could listen to people read reading them. 185 00:19:29,220 --> 00:19:36,960 We had films with people talking about various aspects of his life and how to look at his work and different kinds of side essays. 186 00:19:37,260 --> 00:19:47,310 And I like that kind of ability of people to be able to explore the material in some order other than the order that a book would impose. 187 00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:57,030 I've actually just published an article about how people liked to do that in the 19th century and the first photographically illustrated novel, 188 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:02,070 which is, in case you're wondering, Nathaniel Hawthorne was the marble sun. 189 00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:09,700 But it. Wasn't illustrated by the publishers, the booksellers in Rome, because it's a book about tourists in Rome. 190 00:20:09,730 --> 00:20:19,690 Artists, tourists in Rome. The booksellers there got the idea that they could sell illustrations of the kinds of things tourists could see in Rome, 191 00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:23,530 and the tourists could pick their own and, you know, mix them and match them. 192 00:20:23,530 --> 00:20:27,260 And then the booksellers would bind the books together. 193 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:34,320 So everyone is different. And this was this became so popular that there are thousands, possibly tens of thousands, 194 00:20:34,330 --> 00:20:39,010 and they're all different know because because people chose different designs and chose different images. 195 00:20:39,010 --> 00:20:46,660 And and I was interested in the way that it sort of pre figures how people leap around on computers. 196 00:20:47,980 --> 00:20:49,840 So I'm I'm interested in, 197 00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:57,730 in encouraging that kind of more and I would argue that's a much more visual way of being in the world because it's like looking around, 198 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:03,880 you know, you can look up to the left and then over to the right and then you can choose to look more to the right or back to the left. 199 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:07,900 So when we look around, we have our own agency of exploration, 200 00:21:08,140 --> 00:21:17,380 and I'm interested in trying to figure out ways to encourage that propensity and attract people to kind of chart their own course through materials. 201 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:23,650 So, Chris, thank you. It's been fascinating to hear about your time here in Oxford. 202 00:21:23,890 --> 00:21:32,200 Well, the Terra Foundation actually makes possible, but in particular, the work that you're doing with master's students. 203 00:21:32,770 --> 00:21:38,290 Your lecture series, give us the dates again. Well, the first event is on March 3rd. 204 00:21:38,860 --> 00:21:42,759 That's the study day and the lecture series in Trinity Term. 205 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:50,680 It starts the first Wednesday in May and the four in total Wednesdays and the here in the Nazarene show. 206 00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:58,030 Yes, exactly. Great. Well, for everybody listening, if you've been excited by this discussion, 207 00:21:58,030 --> 00:22:05,230 anything that Chris has said or we just like to cross the threshold will be room to explore in the way that Chris has been describing. 208 00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:10,090 Please do pop in and explore and be part of the conversation. 209 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:14,110 Yes. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us and good luck. 210 00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:15,790 Typical goes well. Me too.